I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty happy
with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely geared
to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a Phoenix
Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I rarely
use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but mount the
AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I spoke
with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than that
from him.

Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How much
dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed facing the
rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount facing the
seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer items in
the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't lose
the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice trunk
pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

Me too

Im using a powerbase extreme 15. I was gonna do an ABC box, changed my
mind, NEED trunk space for costco diapers and baby wipes. From what I
understand low Qts, Low Fs, high db sensitivity, high wattage capacity
and high Xmax subs work best.

Im using this tutorial as a baseline
http://www.elitecaraudio.com/article.php?sid=105
Do a search through the termpro.com forum... hundreds of threads there.

Im doing mine in my 2 door hatchback. The AP mat will vent to the
exterior of the vehicle through a heavily perforated spare tire well.
Im just about finished fiberglassing the spare tire well and sealing
it off from the vehicle interior. I'm using 1" thick birch plywood,
with a thick layer of fiberglass resin as my trunk floor, and mounting
the tiny AP enclosure to that. The AP mat is a pair of 10" waffle
grills with 3/4" thick sheets of polyester fiberfill sanwiched between.

I didn't think an AP enclosure is less efficient than an acoustic
suspension...??? I may be wrong though. They are supposed to be
significantly less efficient than ported and IB enclosures though. My
15 will be getting about 800W RMS per coil, hopefully I wont cook it :~)
Im only shooting for 120 db, so whatever the design lacks in efficiency
I'm trying to make up with power and Xmax stroke. hehehe

Sounds like we've read the same www articles... Sorry I dont have first
hand experience placing the mat in front versus behind. Im placing my
mat behind the speaker. Speaker fires up from AP box on the trunk floor.

Sounds goofy, but I'm gonna try. Hope to have pics some day.

Garrett

Tony Fernandes wrote:

I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty happy
with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely geared
to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a Phoenix
Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I rarely
use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but mount the
AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I spoke
with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than that
from him.

Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How much
dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed facing the
rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount facing the
seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer items in
the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't lose
the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice trunk
pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

one thing Im a little worried about is the system impedence. Yes its a
dual 2-ohm sub, but the total system impedence may be different than 2
ohms from 20-80Hz. Hopefully the mosfets wont fry.

more questions than answers right now.

we shall see...
Garrett

Tony Fernandes wrote:

I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty happy
with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely geared
to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a Phoenix
Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I rarely
use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but mount the
AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I spoke
with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than that
from him.

Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How much
dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed facing the
rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount facing the
seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer items in
the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't lose
the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice trunk
pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

Why not just run them IB? A friend of mine that orked at SS until their
sale was running 4 of them in a 66 'Stang off of a Reference Class A 10.0
and they sounded awesome.


Paul Vina



"Tony Fernandes" wrote in message
...
I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty
happy
with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely
geared
to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a Phoenix
Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I rarely
use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but mount
the
AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I
spoke
with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than that
from him.

Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How much
dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed facing
the
rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount facing
the
seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer items
in
the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't
lose
the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice
trunk
pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

The impedance in an AP setup will usually be substantially higher than in a
sealed box, hence the efficieny difference.



Paul Vina




"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
one thing Im a little worried about is the system impedence. Yes its a
dual 2-ohm sub, but the total system impedence may be different than 2
ohms from 20-80Hz. Hopefully the mosfets wont fry.

more questions than answers right now.

we shall see...
Garrett

Tony Fernandes wrote:

I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty
happy
with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely
geared
to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a
Phoenix
Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I
rarely
use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but mount
the
AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I
spoke
with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than
that
from him.

Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How
much
dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed facing
the
rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount facing
the
seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer items
in
the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't
lose
the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice
trunk
pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

Hmm, Im planning on using a pair of amps, bridging them mono into each 2
ohm voice coil. So its most likely my amps will see something higher
than 2 ohms?

Thanks,
Garrett

Paul Vina wrote:

The impedance in an AP setup will usually be substantially higher than in a
sealed box, hence the efficieny difference.



Paul Vina




"sanitarium" wrote in message
...


one thing Im a little worried about is the system impedence. Yes its a
dual 2-ohm sub, but the total system impedence may be different than 2
ohms from 20-80Hz. Hopefully the mosfets wont fry.

more questions than answers right now.

we shall see...
Garrett

Tony Fernandes wrote:



I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty


happy


with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely


geared


to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a


Phoenix


Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I


rarely


use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but mount


the


AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I


spoke


with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than


that


from him.


Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How


much


dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed facing


the


rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount facing


the


seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer items


in


the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't


lose


the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice


trunk


pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,


that


he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we


wouldn't


have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

Yep. I would definitely measure the system after it's in to see what load
the amp will see.



Paul Vina



"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Hmm, Im planning on using a pair of amps, bridging them mono into each 2
ohm voice coil. So its most likely my amps will see something higher
than 2 ohms?

Thanks,
Garrett

Paul Vina wrote:

The impedance in an AP setup will usually be substantially higher than in
a
sealed box, hence the efficieny difference.



Paul Vina




"sanitarium" wrote in message
...


one thing Im a little worried about is the system impedence. Yes its a
dual 2-ohm sub, but the total system impedence may be different than 2
ohms from 20-80Hz. Hopefully the mosfets wont fry.

more questions than answers right now.

we shall see...
Garrett

Tony Fernandes wrote:



I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty


happy


with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely


geared


to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a


Phoenix


Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I


rarely


use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the
rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount
the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but mount


the


AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I


spoke


with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would
not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than


that


from him.


Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should
I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How


much


dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed facing


the


rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount
facing


the


seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer
items


in


the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If
the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't


lose


the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice


trunk


pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,


that


he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we


wouldn't


have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

If I understand you correctly, you're talking about powering a
single sub from two different amplifiers, each amp driving a different
2-ohm voice coil?
Assuming your amps are 2-ohm mono stable, there's another
potential problem. Unless both amps are getting the exact same
signal, and the gains are set exactly the same, you may have one amp
trying to move the speaker cone one way, while the other amp tries to
move it the other way. At best, you'll be losing power, and at worst
you might damage the sub.
Has anyone powered subs this way for long periods of time?

Scott Gardner


On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 08:18:38 GMT, sanitarium
wrote:

Hmm, Im planning on using a pair of amps, bridging them mono into each 2
ohm voice coil. So its most likely my amps will see something higher
than 2 ohms?

Thanks,
Garrett

Correct, I am using 2 ohm mono stable amps, they are also stable to 1 ohm
stereo. Crunch V-600s. they will do about 790-830W RMS bridged into 4
ohms, slightly more into 2 ohms bridged. May incorporate cooling fans. If
its too much I can use just one amp at 2 ohms stereo, one coil per channel.
Should do about 375x2 at 2 ohms...
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...401268_70_full
..jpg
http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...401268_63_full
..jpg

A big part of the install will be setting the gains, heres the plan... Paul
will this work?
My test disc has sine wave tracks at 40Hz.
Hook up amp A to coil A, and play test track. With DVM measure AC voltage
across the speaker outputs. Adjust gain to taste, and record AC voltage
reading on DVM.
Dis-connect amp A.

Connect amp B to coil B and play test track. Measure AC voltage with DVM
and turn up amplifier gain so DVM reading is identical to amp A's reading.

How do all the db-drag fellas with quad voice coils do it? Seen some 150+db
systems with 4 amps running into quad 1 ohm voice coils.

Still more questions....
Garrett






"Scott Gardner" wrote in message
...
If I understand you correctly, you're talking about powering a
single sub from two different amplifiers, each amp driving a different
2-ohm voice coil?
Assuming your amps are 2-ohm mono stable, there's another
potential problem. Unless both amps are getting the exact same
signal, and the gains are set exactly the same, you may have one amp
trying to move the speaker cone one way, while the other amp tries to
move it the other way. At best, you'll be losing power, and at worst
you might damage the sub.
Has anyone powered subs this way for long periods of time?

Scott Gardner


On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 08:18:38 GMT, sanitarium
wrote:

Hmm, Im planning on using a pair of amps, bridging them mono into each 2

ohm voice coil. So its most likely my amps will see something higher
than 2 ohms?

Thanks,
Garrett

IMHO an IB setup done well can sound very good.

Garrett

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:Zddzb.286174$275.1006363@attbi_s53...
Why not just run them IB? A friend of mine that orked at SS until their
sale was running 4 of them in a 66 'Stang off of a Reference Class A 10.0
and they sounded awesome.


Paul Vina



"Tony Fernandes" wrote in message
...
I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty
happy
with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely
geared
to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a
Phoenix
Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I
rarely
use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but mount
the
AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I
spoke
with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than
that
from him.

Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How
much
dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed facing
the
rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount facing
the
seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer items
in
the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If
the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't
lose
the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice
trunk
pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

that should work ok for you. personally, I'd use 2 DVM's and do both amps at
the same time.

Sanatarium wrote: "Im using this tutorial as a baseline
http://www.elitecaraudio.com/article.php?sid=105
Do a search through the termpro.com forum... hundreds of threads there."

Really good writeup. I like his step by step instructions how to make your
own AP mat rather than pay the $100 each from USD. Not only is it way
cheaper, but apparently easy to tune. Nice.






--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact
"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Me too

Im using a powerbase extreme 15. I was gonna do an ABC box, changed my
mind, NEED trunk space for costco diapers and baby wipes. From what I
understand low Qts, Low Fs, high db sensitivity, high wattage capacity
and high Xmax subs work best.

Im using this tutorial as a baseline
http://www.elitecaraudio.com/article.php?sid=105
Do a search through the termpro.com forum... hundreds of threads there.

Im doing mine in my 2 door hatchback. The AP mat will vent to the
exterior of the vehicle through a heavily perforated spare tire well.
Im just about finished fiberglassing the spare tire well and sealing
it off from the vehicle interior. I'm using 1" thick birch plywood,
with a thick layer of fiberglass resin as my trunk floor, and mounting
the tiny AP enclosure to that. The AP mat is a pair of 10" waffle
grills with 3/4" thick sheets of polyester fiberfill sanwiched between.

I didn't think an AP enclosure is less efficient than an acoustic
suspension...??? I may be wrong though. They are supposed to be
significantly less efficient than ported and IB enclosures though. My
15 will be getting about 800W RMS per coil, hopefully I wont cook it :~)
Im only shooting for 120 db, so whatever the design lacks in efficiency
I'm trying to make up with power and Xmax stroke. hehehe

Sounds like we've read the same www articles... Sorry I dont have first
hand experience placing the mat in front versus behind. Im placing my
mat behind the speaker. Speaker fires up from AP box on the trunk floor.

Sounds goofy, but I'm gonna try. Hope to have pics some day.

Garrett

Tony Fernandes wrote:

I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty
happy
with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely
geared
to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a
Phoenix
Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I
rarely
use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but mount
the
AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I
spoke
with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than
that
from him.

Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How
much
dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed facing
the
rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount facing
the
seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer items
in
the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't
lose
the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice
trunk
pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

Paul Vina wrote: "Why not just run them IB? A friend of mine that orked at
SS until their sale was running 4 of them in a 66 'Stang off of a Reference
Class A 10.0 and they sounded awesome."

Well I supposed I haven't ruled this out yet, but I was under the assumption
that AP setups sound better (flatter response) and allow you to run more
power to the sub. I had ruled out IB a long time ago because I heard too
many negative things about them...but never decided to try myself. I will
have to do more research on IB for my particular situation.

I think, for the time being at least, I am leaning towards an AP setup
firing through the back seats. I was inspired by the write up Sanatarium
found concerning the DIY mats. Sounds like fun and I'll save a ton. (I'm a
poet, really)

Tony



--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact
"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:Zddzb.286174$275.1006363@attbi_s53...
Why not just run them IB? A friend of mine that orked at SS until their
sale was running 4 of them in a 66 'Stang off of a Reference Class A 10.0
and they sounded awesome.


Paul Vina



"Tony Fernandes" wrote in message
...
I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty
happy
with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely
geared
to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a
Phoenix
Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I
rarely
use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but mount
the
AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I
spoke
with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than
that
from him.

Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How
much
dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed facing
the
rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount facing
the
seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer items
in
the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If
the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't
lose
the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice
trunk
pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

I wouldn't buy them new... If you like the mats from USD and image dynamics
they show up on ebay every once in a while. They usually auction for under
$25, new or used.

Garrett


"Tony Fernandes" wrote in message
...
Sanatarium wrote: "Im using this tutorial as a baseline
http://www.elitecaraudio.com/article.php?sid=105
Do a search through the termpro.com forum... hundreds of threads there."

Really good writeup. I like his step by step instructions how to make
your
own AP mat rather than pay the $100 each from USD. Not only is it way
cheaper, but apparently easy to tune. Nice.






--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact
"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Me too

Im using a powerbase extreme 15. I was gonna do an ABC box, changed my
mind, NEED trunk space for costco diapers and baby wipes. From what I
understand low Qts, Low Fs, high db sensitivity, high wattage capacity
and high Xmax subs work best.

Im using this tutorial as a baseline
http://www.elitecaraudio.com/article.php?sid=105
Do a search through the termpro.com forum... hundreds of threads there.

Im doing mine in my 2 door hatchback. The AP mat will vent to the
exterior of the vehicle through a heavily perforated spare tire well.
Im just about finished fiberglassing the spare tire well and sealing
it off from the vehicle interior. I'm using 1" thick birch plywood,
with a thick layer of fiberglass resin as my trunk floor, and mounting
the tiny AP enclosure to that. The AP mat is a pair of 10" waffle
grills with 3/4" thick sheets of polyester fiberfill sanwiched between.

I didn't think an AP enclosure is less efficient than an acoustic
suspension...??? I may be wrong though. They are supposed to be
significantly less efficient than ported and IB enclosures though. My
15 will be getting about 800W RMS per coil, hopefully I wont cook it :~)
Im only shooting for 120 db, so whatever the design lacks in efficiency
I'm trying to make up with power and Xmax stroke. hehehe

Sounds like we've read the same www articles... Sorry I dont have first
hand experience placing the mat in front versus behind. Im placing my
mat behind the speaker. Speaker fires up from AP box on the trunk
floor.

Sounds goofy, but I'm gonna try. Hope to have pics some day.

Garrett

Tony Fernandes wrote:

I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty
happy
with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely
geared
to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a
Phoenix
Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I
rarely
use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the
rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount
the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but mount
the
AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I
spoke
with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would
not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than
that
from him.

Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should
I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How
much
dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed facing
the
rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount
facing
the
seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer
items
in
the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If
the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't
lose
the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice
trunk
pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

Garret,
That's EXACTLY how you'd do it. When you're done you'll probably have the
gains on slightly differing points but as long as the output voltage is the
same you're all gravy.


Paul Vina




"sanitarium" wrote in message
news:1070474293.800341@sj-nntpcache-5...
Correct, I am using 2 ohm mono stable amps, they are also stable to 1 ohm
stereo. Crunch V-600s. they will do about 790-830W RMS bridged into 4
ohms, slightly more into 2 ohms bridged. May incorporate cooling fans.
If
its too much I can use just one amp at 2 ohms stereo, one coil per
channel.
Should do about 375x2 at 2 ohms...

http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...401268_70_full
.jpg

http://images.cardomain.com/member_i...401268_63_full
.jpg

A big part of the install will be setting the gains, heres the plan...
Paul
will this work?
My test disc has sine wave tracks at 40Hz.
Hook up amp A to coil A, and play test track. With DVM measure AC voltage
across the speaker outputs. Adjust gain to taste, and record AC voltage
reading on DVM.
Dis-connect amp A.

Connect amp B to coil B and play test track. Measure AC voltage with DVM
and turn up amplifier gain so DVM reading is identical to amp A's reading.

How do all the db-drag fellas with quad voice coils do it? Seen some
150+db
systems with 4 amps running into quad 1 ohm voice coils.

Still more questions....
Garrett






"Scott Gardner" wrote in message
...
If I understand you correctly, you're talking about powering a
single sub from two different amplifiers, each amp driving a different
2-ohm voice coil?
Assuming your amps are 2-ohm mono stable, there's another
potential problem. Unless both amps are getting the exact same
signal, and the gains are set exactly the same, you may have one amp
trying to move the speaker cone one way, while the other amp tries to
move it the other way. At best, you'll be losing power, and at worst
you might damage the sub.
Has anyone powered subs this way for long periods of time?

Scott Gardner


On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 08:18:38 GMT, sanitarium
wrote:

Hmm, Im planning on using a pair of amps, bridging them mono into each
2

ohm voice coil. So its most likely my amps will see something higher
than 2 ohms?

Thanks,
Garrett

The AP will have much better power handling than an IB setup. If this
helps, the first ID Passat had 3 IDMAX12s receiving over 1000 watts each and
it did low to mid 150s.....in IB.



Paul Vina






"Tony Fernandes" wrote in message
...
Paul Vina wrote: "Why not just run them IB? A friend of mine that orked
at
SS until their sale was running 4 of them in a 66 'Stang off of a
Reference
Class A 10.0 and they sounded awesome."

Well I supposed I haven't ruled this out yet, but I was under the
assumption
that AP setups sound better (flatter response) and allow you to run more
power to the sub. I had ruled out IB a long time ago because I heard too
many negative things about them...but never decided to try myself. I will
have to do more research on IB for my particular situation.

I think, for the time being at least, I am leaning towards an AP setup
firing through the back seats. I was inspired by the write up Sanatarium
found concerning the DIY mats. Sounds like fun and I'll save a ton. (I'm
a
poet, really)

Tony



--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact
"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:Zddzb.286174$275.1006363@attbi_s53...
Why not just run them IB? A friend of mine that orked at SS until their
sale was running 4 of them in a 66 'Stang off of a Reference Class A
10.0
and they sounded awesome.


Paul Vina



"Tony Fernandes" wrote in message
...
I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty
happy
with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely
geared
to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a
Phoenix
Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I
rarely
use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the
rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount
the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but
mount
the
AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I
spoke
with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would
not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than
that
from him.

Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should
I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How
much
dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed
facing
the
rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount
facing
the
seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer
items
in
the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If
the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't
lose
the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice
trunk
pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

look at www.dynamat.com

"Tony Fernandes" wrote in message
...
Paul Vina wrote: "Why not just run them IB? A friend of mine that orked
at
SS until their sale was running 4 of them in a 66 'Stang off of a
Reference
Class A 10.0 and they sounded awesome."

Well I supposed I haven't ruled this out yet, but I was under the
assumption
that AP setups sound better (flatter response) and allow you to run more
power to the sub. I had ruled out IB a long time ago because I heard too
many negative things about them...but never decided to try myself. I will
have to do more research on IB for my particular situation.

I think, for the time being at least, I am leaning towards an AP setup
firing through the back seats. I was inspired by the write up Sanatarium
found concerning the DIY mats. Sounds like fun and I'll save a ton. (I'm
a
poet, really)

Tony



--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact
"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:Zddzb.286174$275.1006363@attbi_s53...
Why not just run them IB? A friend of mine that orked at SS until their
sale was running 4 of them in a 66 'Stang off of a Reference Class A
10.0
and they sounded awesome.


Paul Vina



"Tony Fernandes" wrote in message
...
I have decided to try for the first time an aperiodic setup in my 2001
Nissan Maxima. The last several vehicles I've owned, I've been pretty
happy
with a single 10" sub in a small, sealed enclosure. I am definitely
geared
to SQ and could care less about SPL. The amp I will be using is a
Phoenix
Gold ZX500, which has gobs of reserve power left over considering I
rarely
use its full potential.

I've been reading up a little and had originally decided on using two
Soundstream EXACT10 subs I've had laying around that I haven't used in
years. My first idea was to mount them in a shallow box facing the
rear
seats in the trunk and using the AP mats on the rear of the enclosure.
Then, I read in a teamrocs article somewhere that you can also mount
the
sub(s) to the rear parcel shelf as you would infinite baffle, but
mount
the
AP mat(s) to the front of the woofer. Okay...that's cool. But when I
spoke
with the guy at USD he said did not recommend this route as it would
not
"sound as good" as the rear-seat method. I didn't get much more than
that
from him.

Basically, my questions are these:

1) Since AP setups are not as loud as traditional sealed boxes, should
I
step up to two subs to compensate, or would I be happy with one? How
much
dB loss are we talking about vs. a sealed box with same input wattage?

2) Anyone have any input regarding the AP system being installed
facing
the
rear seats vs. under the parcel shelf in terms of SQ? If I mount
facing
the
seats I will lose the ability to lay the seats down and put longer
items
in
the trunk. If I mount under the parcel shelf I will have to lose the
torsion bars that hold the trunk up and fabricate a shock system. If
the
parcel shelf option is as good as the rear-seat option in terms of SQ
(contrary to what USD says) then I would prefer this method so I don't
lose
the trunk pass-through option. Regardless, I am willing to sacrifice
trunk
pass-through if this indeed is the best method in terms of SQ.

Any input from anyone with AP experience will be helpful.

Thanks,

Tony


--


What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or,
that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we
wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...
look at www.dynamat.com

for what? what does dynamat have to do with this thread?
--
sancho
i want my property taxes back

"sancho" tR-003.at.ev1.dot.net wrote in message
...

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...
look at www.dynamat.com

for what? what does dynamat have to do with this thread?
--
sancho
i want my property taxes back


they make and tune aper memb. that's what they do, if you went there then
you would know

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...

"sancho" tR-003.at.ev1.dot.net wrote in message
...

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...
look at www.dynamat.com

for what? what does dynamat have to do with this thread?
--
sancho
i want my property taxes back


they make and tune aper memb. that's what they do, if you went there then
you would know



I was just all over their site...

Car Audio Products:
Dynamat Original
Dynamat Xtreme
Dynaplate
Dynaliner
Extremeliner
Hoodliner
TacMat
Dynashield
Dynaxorb

Could you please explain to us which of those is the Aperiodic Membrane that
they make and tune?


narcolept
-------
I thought it was a sound/vibration deadener, myself. but some people do the
damndest things with asphalt noise deadener.

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message

look at www.dynamat.com

for what? what does dynamat have to do with this thread?
--
sancho
i want my property taxes back

they make and tune aper memb. that's what they do, if you went there then
you would know

know what?

that you're an idjit?
--
sancho
show me

They stopped making the AP Mats a looooooooong time ago.


Paul Vina



"narcolept" wrote in message
t...

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...

"sancho" tR-003.at.ev1.dot.net wrote in message
...

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...
look at www.dynamat.com

for what? what does dynamat have to do with this thread?
--
sancho
i want my property taxes back


they make and tune aper memb. that's what they do, if you went there
then
you would know



I was just all over their site...

Car Audio Products:
Dynamat Original
Dynamat Xtreme
Dynaplate
Dynaliner
Extremeliner
Hoodliner
TacMat
Dynashield
Dynaxorb

Could you please explain to us which of those is the Aperiodic Membrane
that
they make and tune?


narcolept
-------
I thought it was a sound/vibration deadener, myself. but some people do
the
damndest things with asphalt noise deadener.

I know the ACTUAL secret to the USD mat...I used to work for them MAN
moons ago

-
truepr
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via RealCarAudio.com - The checkmate of the caraudio community
http://www.RealCarAudio.co
truepro's Profile: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/m...nfo&userid=299
View this thread: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/s...?threadid=1806

So spill it! We want to know.



Paul Vina



"truepro" wrote in message
...

I know the ACTUAL secret to the USD mat...I used to work for them MANY
moons ago.


--
truepro
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via RealCarAudio.com - The checkmate of the caraudio community.
http://www.RealCarAudio.com
truepro's Profile:
http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/m...fo&userid=2998
View this thread:
http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/s...threadid=18066

Truepro wrote: "I know the ACTUAL secret to the USD mat...I used to work for
them MANY moons ago."

Yes...stop teasing! Any info. you can share would be helpful.

I'm almost finished with my box. Each woofer sees less than 1/3 cu ft. It
fits very nicely into the trunk hole. I'm going to start making my AP mats
this weekend. I'll be using some sort of metal perforated grills...most
likely a speaker grill or whatever I can get my hands on...and some pink
fiberglass insulation.

Tony

"sancho" tr_003.at.yahoo.dot.com wrote in message
...

"Tha Ghee" wrote in message

look at www.dynamat.com

for what? what does dynamat have to do with this thread?
--
sancho
i want my property taxes back

they make and tune aper memb. that's what they do, if you went there
then
you would know

know what?

that you're an idjit?
--
sancho
show me

well you think they forgot how to make or service them. or do they not have
info on them...oh I think they would...boy your smart, but I can tell from
your writing you level of intellect

My brother used to use to use those yellow fiberglass fibers as an A
Mat alternative, which can be found at Home depot. That was about 1
years ago, though. The result was tight, accurate bass
-
archange
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CarAudioForum.com - Usenet Gateway w/over one million posts online
View this thread: http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthr...threadid=16757