Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted box versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers prefer not
to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

My guess is that since MDF is porous they're getting extra leakage that's
affecting their tuning. Maybe the glue is sealing the box a bit better.
I've resined and Dynashielded the inside of boxes before and really liked
the results.


Paul Vina



"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted box versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers prefer not
to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

MDF will not affect sound in anyway you can hear
it because it is porous! Sound or air pressure cant go
through those pores fast enough to add anything or
take anything away from the original sound....

IT IS NOT A FACTOR!

If anything a carpeted box would prevent midrange sounds
in the car from bouncing off of it... An uncarpeted box could
make a much more reflective (or live) listening area...

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

My guess is that since MDF is porous they're getting extra leakage that's
affecting their tuning. Maybe the glue is sealing the box a bit better.
I've resined and Dynashielded the inside of boxes before and really liked
the results.

Paul Vina

"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted box versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers prefer not
to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

It has to make some kind of difference (albeit a small one) or applying
resin to the inside wouldn't make it sound any different, but it did. I'm
not even going to get into one of your long drawn out debates, but I have
heard a difference before and after resining the box. If you don't agree
fine, since nothing I could say would make you change your mind anyway.


Paul Vina



"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
MDF will not affect sound in anyway you can hear
it because it is porous! Sound or air pressure cant go
through those pores fast enough to add anything or
take anything away from the original sound....

IT IS NOT A FACTOR!

If anything a carpeted box would prevent midrange sounds
in the car from bouncing off of it... An uncarpeted box could
make a much more reflective (or live) listening area...

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

My guess is that since MDF is porous they're getting extra leakage
that's
affecting their tuning. Maybe the glue is sealing the box a bit better.
I've resined and Dynashielded the inside of boxes before and really
liked
the results.

Paul Vina

"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted box versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers prefer
not
to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

I dont think youre alone Paul . Ive seen many DB drag cars with resin
coated enclosure walls, both interior and exterior.

Curious, what auduble difference did the resin make in your application?
Do you think it would help an aperiodic enclosure?

Thanks!!
Garrett



Paul Vina wrote:

It has to make some kind of difference (albeit a small one) or applying
resin to the inside wouldn't make it sound any different, but it did. I'm
not even going to get into one of your long drawn out debates, but I have
heard a difference before and after resining the box. If you don't agree
fine, since nothing I could say would make you change your mind anyway.


Paul Vina



"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...


MDF will not affect sound in anyway you can hear
it because it is porous! Sound or air pressure cant go
through those pores fast enough to add anything or
take anything away from the original sound....

IT IS NOT A FACTOR!

If anything a carpeted box would prevent midrange sounds
in the car from bouncing off of it... An uncarpeted box could
make a much more reflective (or live) listening area...

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:



My guess is that since MDF is porous they're getting extra leakage


that's


affecting their tuning. Maybe the glue is sealing the box a bit better.
I've resined and Dynashielded the inside of boxes before and really


liked


the results.

Paul Vina

"sanitarium" wrote in message
...


Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted box versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers prefer


not


to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

think about it Paul
in the fact that wood is porous can or cannot affect the
woofer sound... Can you feel air coming out of the box pores??

of course not. so the pressure (if any) that comes out of the
pores do you think it can have a canceling effect on the direct sound
from the speaker?? Would it be out of phase or in phase with the
original signal? and would there be enough to affect the original
signal?

I dont think it can have any affect at all...
I dont really think MDF is very porus at all either.
Can you blow through it with your lips?? hell no!!

Try a high pressure air hose!!! Can you feel it on the other side??
hell no!!

MORE LIKELY!
puting resin inside the box would make the inside of the box more
reflective, then we would be more inline with the pollyfill debate
than the leaky box debate....

And possibly even, if the box design was very poor, the resin when
it hardens could actually strengthen the box not allowing the sides
to flex... Or could seal large leaks inherant with a very poorly
built enclosure..

Think about it Paul

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

It has to make some kind of difference (albeit a small one) or applying
resin to the inside wouldn't make it sound any different, but it did. I'm
not even going to get into one of your long drawn out debates, but I have
heard a difference before and after resining the box. If you don't agree
fine, since nothing I could say would make you change your mind anyway.

Paul Vina

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
MDF will not affect sound in anyway you can hear
it because it is porous! Sound or air pressure cant go
through those pores fast enough to add anything or
take anything away from the original sound....

IT IS NOT A FACTOR!

If anything a carpeted box would prevent midrange sounds
in the car from bouncing off of it... An uncarpeted box could
make a much more reflective (or live) listening area...

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

My guess is that since MDF is porous they're getting extra leakage
that's
affecting their tuning. Maybe the glue is sealing the box a bit better.
I've resined and Dynashielded the inside of boxes before and really
liked
the results.

Paul Vina

"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted box versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers prefer
not
to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

It was "punchier". Like there a little more control. The midbass was drier
and there was less overhang.


Paul Vina




"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
I dont think youre alone Paul . Ive seen many DB drag cars with resin
coated enclosure walls, both interior and exterior.

Curious, what auduble difference did the resin make in your application?
Do you think it would help an aperiodic enclosure?

Thanks!!
Garrett



Paul Vina wrote:

It has to make some kind of difference (albeit a small one) or applying
resin to the inside wouldn't make it sound any different, but it did.
I'm
not even going to get into one of your long drawn out debates, but I have
heard a difference before and after resining the box. If you don't agree
fine, since nothing I could say would make you change your mind anyway.


Paul Vina



"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...


MDF will not affect sound in anyway you can hear
it because it is porous! Sound or air pressure cant go
through those pores fast enough to add anything or
take anything away from the original sound....

IT IS NOT A FACTOR!

If anything a carpeted box would prevent midrange sounds
in the car from bouncing off of it... An uncarpeted box could
make a much more reflective (or live) listening area...

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:



My guess is that since MDF is porous they're getting extra leakage


that's


affecting their tuning. Maybe the glue is sealing the box a bit
better.
I've resined and Dynashielded the inside of boxes before and really


liked


the results.

Paul Vina

"sanitarium" wrote in message
...


Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted box versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers prefer


not


to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

I have thought about it, Eddie. That's why I said I couldn't explain it.
You could be right about the extra strength, but it was a 1cf box with no
panel dimensions larger than 15.5". I can't see a panel that small flexing
a whole bunch.


Paul Vina



"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
think about it Paul
in the fact that wood is porous can or cannot affect the
woofer sound... Can you feel air coming out of the box pores??

of course not. so the pressure (if any) that comes out of the
pores do you think it can have a canceling effect on the direct sound
from the speaker?? Would it be out of phase or in phase with the
original signal? and would there be enough to affect the original
signal?

I dont think it can have any affect at all...
I dont really think MDF is very porus at all either.
Can you blow through it with your lips?? hell no!!

Try a high pressure air hose!!! Can you feel it on the other side??
hell no!!

MORE LIKELY!
puting resin inside the box would make the inside of the box more
reflective, then we would be more inline with the pollyfill debate
than the leaky box debate....

And possibly even, if the box design was very poor, the resin when
it hardens could actually strengthen the box not allowing the sides
to flex... Or could seal large leaks inherant with a very poorly
built enclosure..

Think about it Paul

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

It has to make some kind of difference (albeit a small one) or applying
resin to the inside wouldn't make it sound any different, but it did.
I'm
not even going to get into one of your long drawn out debates, but I
have
heard a difference before and after resining the box. If you don't
agree
fine, since nothing I could say would make you change your mind anyway.

Paul Vina

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
MDF will not affect sound in anyway you can hear
it because it is porous! Sound or air pressure cant go
through those pores fast enough to add anything or
take anything away from the original sound....

IT IS NOT A FACTOR!

If anything a carpeted box would prevent midrange sounds
in the car from bouncing off of it... An uncarpeted box could
make a much more reflective (or live) listening area...

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

My guess is that since MDF is porous they're getting extra leakage
that's
affecting their tuning. Maybe the glue is sealing the box a bit
better.
I've resined and Dynashielded the inside of boxes before and really
liked
the results.

Paul Vina

"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted box
versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers
prefer
not
to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

I'm not necessarily doubting that you heard a difference, Paul, although
it's difficult to tell for sure. But Eddie's right that the "porous"
characteristic of the material has no bearing whatsoever. In fact, the
degree to which the box is sealed makes no difference. You could have wind
whistling through small cracks in the enclosure and it wouldn't matter.
It's all a matter of change in pressure as a function of time.


"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:GmAPb.98142$sv6.405378@attbi_s52...
I have thought about it, Eddie. That's why I said I couldn't explain it.
You could be right about the extra strength, but it was a 1cf box with no
panel dimensions larger than 15.5". I can't see a panel that small
flexing
a whole bunch.


Paul Vina



"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
think about it Paul
in the fact that wood is porous can or cannot affect the
woofer sound... Can you feel air coming out of the box pores??

of course not. so the pressure (if any) that comes out of the
pores do you think it can have a canceling effect on the direct sound
from the speaker?? Would it be out of phase or in phase with the
original signal? and would there be enough to affect the original
signal?

I dont think it can have any affect at all...
I dont really think MDF is very porus at all either.
Can you blow through it with your lips?? hell no!!

Try a high pressure air hose!!! Can you feel it on the other side??
hell no!!

MORE LIKELY!
puting resin inside the box would make the inside of the box more
reflective, then we would be more inline with the pollyfill debate
than the leaky box debate....

And possibly even, if the box design was very poor, the resin when
it hardens could actually strengthen the box not allowing the sides
to flex... Or could seal large leaks inherant with a very poorly
built enclosure..

Think about it Paul

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

It has to make some kind of difference (albeit a small one) or
applying
resin to the inside wouldn't make it sound any different, but it did.
I'm
not even going to get into one of your long drawn out debates, but I
have
heard a difference before and after resining the box. If you don't
agree
fine, since nothing I could say would make you change your mind
anyway.

Paul Vina

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
MDF will not affect sound in anyway you can hear
it because it is porous! Sound or air pressure cant go
through those pores fast enough to add anything or
take anything away from the original sound....

IT IS NOT A FACTOR!

If anything a carpeted box would prevent midrange sounds
in the car from bouncing off of it... An uncarpeted box could
make a much more reflective (or live) listening area...

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

My guess is that since MDF is porous they're getting extra leakage
that's
affecting their tuning. Maybe the glue is sealing the box a bit
better.
I've resined and Dynashielded the inside of boxes before and
really
liked
the results.

Paul Vina

"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted box
versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers
prefer
not
to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

Talk about MEANINGLESS subjective terms used
to describe how audio sounds... ha ha ha

You take the cake Paul!


Paul Vina wrote:

It was "punchier".

Does that mean it sounds like a *punch* speaker
or does that mean it sounds like a punch in the arm?

Like there a little more control.

Control? Like what happens when you turn the volume
knob up or down?

The midbass was drier

this one is funny!
*drier*.. ???
How does audio sound WET or DRY??

Ar you listening to the sounds of a water fall and suddenly
IT STOPS so you say the sound is drier??
ha ha ha

and there was less overhang.

Are we describing the sounds of a cliff face on a mountain?
what the hell does OVERHANG sound like???

Come n Paul,
make me laugh some more!

Eddie Runner

righto Mark.

A port in a box can TUNE the box to a different frequency
which means the box plays louder at that frequency...

but porous wood WILL NOT retune a box!!
At least not the porous wood they ar describing!!
And it should not change the frequency response of the box at all
by adding resin, at least not for the reason of sealing the wood.

Paul needs to borrow my LMS computer to run a before and after sweep!

Mark Zarella wrote:

I'm not necessarily doubting that you heard a difference, Paul, although
it's difficult to tell for sure. But Eddie's right that the "porous"
characteristic of the material has no bearing whatsoever. In fact, the
degree to which the box is sealed makes no difference. You could have wind
whistling through small cracks in the enclosure and it wouldn't matter.
It's all a matter of change in pressure as a function of time.

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:GmAPb.98142$sv6.405378@attbi_s52...
I have thought about it, Eddie. That's why I said I couldn't explain it.
You could be right about the extra strength, but it was a 1cf box with no
panel dimensions larger than 15.5". I can't see a panel that small
flexing
a whole bunch.


Paul Vina



"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
think about it Paul
in the fact that wood is porous can or cannot affect the
woofer sound... Can you feel air coming out of the box pores??

of course not. so the pressure (if any) that comes out of the
pores do you think it can have a canceling effect on the direct sound
from the speaker?? Would it be out of phase or in phase with the
original signal? and would there be enough to affect the original
signal?

I dont think it can have any affect at all...
I dont really think MDF is very porus at all either.
Can you blow through it with your lips?? hell no!!

Try a high pressure air hose!!! Can you feel it on the other side??
hell no!!

MORE LIKELY!
puting resin inside the box would make the inside of the box more
reflective, then we would be more inline with the pollyfill debate
than the leaky box debate....

And possibly even, if the box design was very poor, the resin when
it hardens could actually strengthen the box not allowing the sides
to flex... Or could seal large leaks inherant with a very poorly
built enclosure..

Think about it Paul

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

It has to make some kind of difference (albeit a small one) or
applying
resin to the inside wouldn't make it sound any different, but it did.
I'm
not even going to get into one of your long drawn out debates, but I
have
heard a difference before and after resining the box. If you don't
agree
fine, since nothing I could say would make you change your mind
anyway.

Paul Vina

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
MDF will not affect sound in anyway you can hear
it because it is porous! Sound or air pressure cant go
through those pores fast enough to add anything or
take anything away from the original sound....

IT IS NOT A FACTOR!

If anything a carpeted box would prevent midrange sounds
in the car from bouncing off of it... An uncarpeted box could
make a much more reflective (or live) listening area...

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

My guess is that since MDF is porous they're getting extra leakage
that's
affecting their tuning. Maybe the glue is sealing the box a bit
better.
I've resined and Dynashielded the inside of boxes before and
really
liked
the results.

Paul Vina

"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted box
versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers
prefer
not
to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

Interesting... thanks.

Garrett

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:BkAPb.98135$sv6.405769@attbi_s52...
It was "punchier". Like there a little more control. The midbass was
drier
and there was less overhang.


Paul Vina




"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
I dont think youre alone Paul . Ive seen many DB drag cars with resin
coated enclosure walls, both interior and exterior.

Curious, what auduble difference did the resin make in your application?
Do you think it would help an aperiodic enclosure?

Thanks!!
Garrett



Paul Vina wrote:

It has to make some kind of difference (albeit a small one) or applying
resin to the inside wouldn't make it sound any different, but it did.
I'm
not even going to get into one of your long drawn out debates, but I
have
heard a difference before and after resining the box. If you don't
agree
fine, since nothing I could say would make you change your mind anyway.


Paul Vina



"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...


MDF will not affect sound in anyway you can hear
it because it is porous! Sound or air pressure cant go
through those pores fast enough to add anything or
take anything away from the original sound....

IT IS NOT A FACTOR!

If anything a carpeted box would prevent midrange sounds
in the car from bouncing off of it... An uncarpeted box could
make a much more reflective (or live) listening area...

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:



My guess is that since MDF is porous they're getting extra leakage


that's


affecting their tuning. Maybe the glue is sealing the box a bit
better.
I've resined and Dynashielded the inside of boxes before and really


liked


the results.

Paul Vina

"sanitarium" wrote in message
...


Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted box
versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers prefer


not


to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

So what terminology do you use when a customer comes in your store? What do
you tell them? "This one is twice as much, but they sound the same, but
this one is louder.". According to some of your really old posts all subs
basically sound like ass and it's the midbass drivers that make them sound
good. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the point.



Paul Vina




"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
Talk about MEANINGLESS subjective terms used
to describe how audio sounds... ha ha ha

You take the cake Paul!


Paul Vina wrote:

It was "punchier".

Does that mean it sounds like a *punch* speaker
or does that mean it sounds like a punch in the arm?

Like there a little more control.

Control? Like what happens when you turn the volume
knob up or down?

The midbass was drier

this one is funny!
*drier*.. ???
How does audio sound WET or DRY??

Ar you listening to the sounds of a water fall and suddenly
IT STOPS so you say the sound is drier??
ha ha ha

and there was less overhang.

Are we describing the sounds of a cliff face on a mountain?
what the hell does OVERHANG sound like???

Come n Paul,
make me laugh some more!

Eddie Runner

Go ahead and ship it to me. I'll even post the results!



Paul Vina



"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
righto Mark.

A port in a box can TUNE the box to a different frequency
which means the box plays louder at that frequency...

but porous wood WILL NOT retune a box!!
At least not the porous wood they ar describing!!
And it should not change the frequency response of the box at all
by adding resin, at least not for the reason of sealing the wood.

Paul needs to borrow my LMS computer to run a before and after sweep!

Mark Zarella wrote:

I'm not necessarily doubting that you heard a difference, Paul, although
it's difficult to tell for sure. But Eddie's right that the "porous"
characteristic of the material has no bearing whatsoever. In fact, the
degree to which the box is sealed makes no difference. You could have
wind
whistling through small cracks in the enclosure and it wouldn't matter.
It's all a matter of change in pressure as a function of time.

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:GmAPb.98142$sv6.405378@attbi_s52...
I have thought about it, Eddie. That's why I said I couldn't explain
it.
You could be right about the extra strength, but it was a 1cf box with
no
panel dimensions larger than 15.5". I can't see a panel that small
flexing
a whole bunch.


Paul Vina



"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
think about it Paul
in the fact that wood is porous can or cannot affect the
woofer sound... Can you feel air coming out of the box pores??

of course not. so the pressure (if any) that comes out of the
pores do you think it can have a canceling effect on the direct
sound
from the speaker?? Would it be out of phase or in phase with the
original signal? and would there be enough to affect the original
signal?

I dont think it can have any affect at all...
I dont really think MDF is very porus at all either.
Can you blow through it with your lips?? hell no!!

Try a high pressure air hose!!! Can you feel it on the other side??
hell no!!

MORE LIKELY!
puting resin inside the box would make the inside of the box more
reflective, then we would be more inline with the pollyfill debate
than the leaky box debate....

And possibly even, if the box design was very poor, the resin when
it hardens could actually strengthen the box not allowing the sides
to flex... Or could seal large leaks inherant with a very poorly
built enclosure..

Think about it Paul

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

It has to make some kind of difference (albeit a small one) or
applying
resin to the inside wouldn't make it sound any different, but it
did.
I'm
not even going to get into one of your long drawn out debates, but
I
have
heard a difference before and after resining the box. If you
don't
agree
fine, since nothing I could say would make you change your mind
anyway.

Paul Vina

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
MDF will not affect sound in anyway you can hear
it because it is porous! Sound or air pressure cant go
through those pores fast enough to add anything or
take anything away from the original sound....

IT IS NOT A FACTOR!

If anything a carpeted box would prevent midrange sounds
in the car from bouncing off of it... An uncarpeted box could
make a much more reflective (or live) listening area...

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

My guess is that since MDF is porous they're getting extra
leakage
that's
affecting their tuning. Maybe the glue is sealing the box a
bit
better.
I've resined and Dynashielded the inside of boxes before and
really
liked
the results.

Paul Vina

"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted
box
versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers
prefer
not
to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I
guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:tHFPb.101626$nt4.304128@attbi_s51...
So what terminology do you use when a customer comes in your store? What
do
you tell them? "This one is twice as much, but they sound the same, but
this one is louder.". According to some of your really old posts all subs
basically sound like ass and it's the midbass drivers that make them sound
good. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the point.



Paul Vina

there are a some people who hate the sound of subs, and will run them less
than 50Hz, I'm not of that opinion but some are.

well originally SUB meant below, so sub woofer was a term
used to describe a speaker designed to play below the range
of the systems normal woofer.... At least thats how subwoofer
came to be known in the home world before there really was
any woofers in cars....

Now in the car stereo world, ANY woofer is oftentimes
called a SUB....

Eddie Runner

Tha Ghee wrote:

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:tHFPb.101626$nt4.304128@attbi_s51...
So what terminology do you use when a customer comes in your store? What
do
you tell them? "This one is twice as much, but they sound the same, but
this one is louder.". According to some of your really old posts all subs
basically sound like ass and it's the midbass drivers that make them sound
good. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the point.



Paul Vina

there are a some people who hate the sound of subs, and will run them less
than 50Hz, I'm not of that opinion but some are.

you can get yourself one here
http://www.linearx.com/

Paul Vina wrote:

Go ahead and ship it to me. I'll even post the results!

Paul Vina

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
righto Mark.

A port in a box can TUNE the box to a different frequency
which means the box plays louder at that frequency...

but porous wood WILL NOT retune a box!!
At least not the porous wood they ar describing!!
And it should not change the frequency response of the box at all
by adding resin, at least not for the reason of sealing the wood.

Paul needs to borrow my LMS computer to run a before and after sweep!

Mark Zarella wrote:

I'm not necessarily doubting that you heard a difference, Paul, although
it's difficult to tell for sure. But Eddie's right that the "porous"
characteristic of the material has no bearing whatsoever. In fact, the
degree to which the box is sealed makes no difference. You could have
wind
whistling through small cracks in the enclosure and it wouldn't matter.
It's all a matter of change in pressure as a function of time.

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:GmAPb.98142$sv6.405378@attbi_s52...
I have thought about it, Eddie. That's why I said I couldn't explain
it.
You could be right about the extra strength, but it was a 1cf box with
no
panel dimensions larger than 15.5". I can't see a panel that small
flexing
a whole bunch.


Paul Vina



"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
think about it Paul
in the fact that wood is porous can or cannot affect the
woofer sound... Can you feel air coming out of the box pores??

of course not. so the pressure (if any) that comes out of the
pores do you think it can have a canceling effect on the direct
sound
from the speaker?? Would it be out of phase or in phase with the
original signal? and would there be enough to affect the original
signal?

I dont think it can have any affect at all...
I dont really think MDF is very porus at all either.
Can you blow through it with your lips?? hell no!!

Try a high pressure air hose!!! Can you feel it on the other side??
hell no!!

MORE LIKELY!
puting resin inside the box would make the inside of the box more
reflective, then we would be more inline with the pollyfill debate
than the leaky box debate....

And possibly even, if the box design was very poor, the resin when
it hardens could actually strengthen the box not allowing the sides
to flex... Or could seal large leaks inherant with a very poorly
built enclosure..

Think about it Paul

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

It has to make some kind of difference (albeit a small one) or
applying
resin to the inside wouldn't make it sound any different, but it
did.
I'm
not even going to get into one of your long drawn out debates, but
I
have
heard a difference before and after resining the box. If you
don't
agree
fine, since nothing I could say would make you change your mind
anyway.

Paul Vina

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
MDF will not affect sound in anyway you can hear
it because it is porous! Sound or air pressure cant go
through those pores fast enough to add anything or
take anything away from the original sound....

IT IS NOT A FACTOR!

If anything a carpeted box would prevent midrange sounds
in the car from bouncing off of it... An uncarpeted box could
make a much more reflective (or live) listening area...

Eddie Runner

Paul Vina wrote:

My guess is that since MDF is porous they're getting extra
leakage
that's
affecting their tuning. Maybe the glue is sealing the box a
bit
better.
I've resined and Dynashielded the inside of boxes before and
really
liked
the results.

Paul Vina

"sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Curious...
Do any of you find your subs sound different in a carpeted
box
versus
bare wood?
Ive heard all kinds of stories / myths, and many DB draggers
prefer
not
to carpet their box. Some sort of acoustic damping I
guess..???

Thanks,
Garrett

Paul Vina wrote:

So what terminology do you use when a customer comes in your store?

Usually its something like "hello, how are you today?"

What do
you tell them?

I tell them the price if they ask!
I tell them where the rest room is if they ask!

According to some of your really old posts all subs
basically sound like ass and it's the midbass drivers that make them sound
good. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the point.

Wow, you actually listened to me .... ha ha
I never said they sound like *ass*, that term is common and it always
bothers me, I really dont know what ASS sounds like..! Kinda like
how does being punched sound, how does edgieness sound??? See!!

Why do you always have to try to quantify sound by comparing to
something that isnt a sound at all???

The interpretation of the words you use to describe sound is very very
subjective!!!! Subjective means anyone that hears these terms can have
thier own idea of what the term means and since there are infinite possibilities

the perception of the word can be different from one person to another!!

That is just a BAD way to do things... It has no real meaning!

Eddie Runner



Paul Vina

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
Talk about MEANINGLESS subjective terms used
to describe how audio sounds... ha ha ha

You take the cake Paul!


Paul Vina wrote:

It was "punchier".

Does that mean it sounds like a *punch* speaker
or does that mean it sounds like a punch in the arm?

Like there a little more control.

Control? Like what happens when you turn the volume
knob up or down?

The midbass was drier

this one is funny!
*drier*.. ???
How does audio sound WET or DRY??

Ar you listening to the sounds of a water fall and suddenly
IT STOPS so you say the sound is drier??
ha ha ha

and there was less overhang.

Are we describing the sounds of a cliff face on a mountain?
what the hell does OVERHANG sound like???

Come n Paul,
make me laugh some more!

Eddie Runner

Wow, you are a master of avoiding a question. After reading your last two
posts I almost thought you answered my question. You've still not said how
you convey the differences in the sound from one set of speakers to the next
to a customer.



Paul Vina





"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
Paul Vina wrote:

So what terminology do you use when a customer comes in your store?

Usually its something like "hello, how are you today?"

What do
you tell them?

I tell them the price if they ask!
I tell them where the rest room is if they ask!

According to some of your really old posts all subs
basically sound like ass and it's the midbass drivers that make them
sound
good. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the point.

Wow, you actually listened to me .... ha ha
I never said they sound like *ass*, that term is common and it always
bothers me, I really dont know what ASS sounds like..! Kinda like
how does being punched sound, how does edgieness sound??? See!!

Why do you always have to try to quantify sound by comparing to
something that isnt a sound at all???

The interpretation of the words you use to describe sound is very very
subjective!!!! Subjective means anyone that hears these terms can have
thier own idea of what the term means and since there are infinite
possibilities

the perception of the word can be different from one person to another!!

That is just a BAD way to do things... It has no real meaning!

Eddie Runner



Paul Vina

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
Talk about MEANINGLESS subjective terms used
to describe how audio sounds... ha ha ha

You take the cake Paul!


Paul Vina wrote:

It was "punchier".

Does that mean it sounds like a *punch* speaker
or does that mean it sounds like a punch in the arm?

Like there a little more control.

Control? Like what happens when you turn the volume
knob up or down?

The midbass was drier

this one is funny!
*drier*.. ???
How does audio sound WET or DRY??

Ar you listening to the sounds of a water fall and suddenly
IT STOPS so you say the sound is drier??
ha ha ha

and there was less overhang.

Are we describing the sounds of a cliff face on a mountain?
what the hell does OVERHANG sound like???

Come n Paul,
make me laugh some more!

Eddie Runner

C'mon yourself, Eddie. Those are terms that anyone involved in music
production (read: recording industry) is familiar with and understands.
Since we are talking about music re-production, I think it applies here as
well.

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
Talk about MEANINGLESS subjective terms used
to describe how audio sounds... ha ha ha

You take the cake Paul!


Paul Vina wrote:

It was "punchier".

Does that mean it sounds like a *punch* speaker
or does that mean it sounds like a punch in the arm?

Like there a little more control.

Control? Like what happens when you turn the volume
knob up or down?

The midbass was drier

this one is funny!
*drier*.. ???
How does audio sound WET or DRY??

Ar you listening to the sounds of a water fall and suddenly
IT STOPS so you say the sound is drier??
ha ha ha

and there was less overhang.

Are we describing the sounds of a cliff face on a mountain?
what the hell does OVERHANG sound like???

Come n Paul,
make me laugh some more!

Eddie Runner

Wow, you are a master of avoiding a question. After reading your last two
posts I almost thought you answered my question. You've still not said
how
you convey the differences in the sound from one set of speakers to the
next
to a customer.

I don't think he does.

I've given up trying to do it long ago. Every now and then I'll use what
those words seem to mean to me, and I wonder if I'm conveying the message
properly.

On the other hand...

I came across a J.AES paper not too long ago where they basically took a
bunch of subjects and created over 30 different response criteria for them
to choose from in a 2AFC blind test. For instance, they'd play two speakers
and the subject would have to distinguish between which one they felt was
the more "full", more "airy", more "hollow", etc. The results were
remarkably uniform! Turns out the experimenters added a bunch of gobblygook
afterwards to the study by trying to categorize the classifications and
label them along orthogonal axes or some such crap, but that's another
story. That's where I stopped reading.

But it's not uncommon for people to use qualitative terminology to describe
something yet still convey the message rather precisely. Magnitude
estimation theory actually deals with this concept. When people are asked
to judge the relative sound intensity, for example, of two sounds using
whatever numbers they deem fit (no upper or lower bounds are presented to
them), the results are surprisingly significant. You can derive all the
same psychophysical thresholds from such a task as you can by telling them
to assign numbers within bounds set by the experimenter.

I can (and do) point out to my customers the physical differences
of the speakers, construction like cast baskets as opposed to
stamped baskets, better binding posts, surround material that
wont rot away in your car and so on....

I might point out that as per my ow measurements a particular
tweeter might be brighter than another, or one woofer might
go a little lower or be a little louder....

But I dont pretent to be able to tell the customer how something
will sound to them!! Its impossible!

When I can, I let them hear it in one of our cars, or our sound board
may let them compare one speaker to another....

hell (usually) folks only buy speakers by name brand anyway and
never even listen to em at all......

but a persons subjective interpratation of music is impossible to
quantify, so I dont try by making up meaningless words to do it.

Did that answer your question???

Paul Vina wrote:

Wow, you are a master of avoiding a question. After reading your last two
posts I almost thought you answered my question. You've still not said how
you convey the differences in the sound from one set of speakers to the next
to a customer.

Paul Vina

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
Paul Vina wrote:

So what terminology do you use when a customer comes in your store?

Usually its something like "hello, how are you today?"

What do
you tell them?

I tell them the price if they ask!
I tell them where the rest room is if they ask!

According to some of your really old posts all subs
basically sound like ass and it's the midbass drivers that make them
sound
good. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the point.

Wow, you actually listened to me .... ha ha
I never said they sound like *ass*, that term is common and it always
bothers me, I really dont know what ASS sounds like..! Kinda like
how does being punched sound, how does edgieness sound??? See!!

Why do you always have to try to quantify sound by comparing to
something that isnt a sound at all???

The interpretation of the words you use to describe sound is very very
subjective!!!! Subjective means anyone that hears these terms can have
thier own idea of what the term means and since there are infinite
possibilities

the perception of the word can be different from one person to another!!

That is just a BAD way to do things... It has no real meaning!

Eddie Runner



Paul Vina

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
Talk about MEANINGLESS subjective terms used
to describe how audio sounds... ha ha ha

You take the cake Paul!


Paul Vina wrote:

It was "punchier".

Does that mean it sounds like a *punch* speaker
or does that mean it sounds like a punch in the arm?

Like there a little more control.

Control? Like what happens when you turn the volume
knob up or down?

The midbass was drier

this one is funny!
*drier*.. ???
How does audio sound WET or DRY??

Ar you listening to the sounds of a water fall and suddenly
IT STOPS so you say the sound is drier??
ha ha ha

and there was less overhang.

Are we describing the sounds of a cliff face on a mountain?
what the hell does OVERHANG sound like???

Come n Paul,
make me laugh some more!

Eddie Runner

Ok, so what would a speaker with MORE CONTROL mean

or I listened to that music and there was more OVERHANG??

james w wrote:

C'mon yourself, Eddie. Those are terms that anyone involved in music
production (read: recording industry) is familiar with and understands.
Since we are talking about music re-production, I think it applies here as
well.

I might point out that as per my ow measurements a particular
tweeter might be brighter than another,

Why, is it shinier?


or one woofer might
go a little lower

Did it fall down?



But I dont pretent to be able to tell the customer how something
will sound to them!! Its impossible!



I agree.


When I can, I let them hear it in one of our cars, or our sound board
may let them compare one speaker to another....


Wow, I thought that idea was dead.


hell (usually) folks only buy speakers by name brand anyway and
never even listen to em at all......


Don't I know it. I can't believe how many people do that.

Did that answer your question???


Kinda.


Paul Vina

Paul Vina wrote:

hell (usually) folks only buy speakers by name brand anyway and
never even listen to em at all......

Don't I know it. I can't believe how many people do that.

WHy not?
It works!!!!!

Most folks choose by brand name and most are very happy with thier
choices... Fact is so many speakers are so close to the same, there are
only a very few actual speaker manufacturers and many ARE the same!

they all sound good quite frankly!


Did that answer your question???
Kinda.

what was your question then???

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
well originally SUB meant below, so sub woofer was a term
used to describe a speaker designed to play below the range
of the systems normal woofer.... At least thats how subwoofer
came to be known in the home world before there really was
any woofers in cars....

Now in the car stereo world, ANY woofer is oftentimes
called a SUB....

Eddie Runner

I know that's why I qualified my statement by saying below 50Hz that's where
I think "subs" and "woofers" are different, but your correct it's now a
catch all phrase.

I can't even remember.

Did that answer your question???
Kinda.

what was your question then???



Paul Vina

useless!

Paul Vina wrote:

I can't even remember.

Did that answer your question???
Kinda.

what was your question then???


Paul Vina

I wasn't the one dancing around the question with a ****load of sarcasm and
cracking jokes instead of answering it in the first place.




Paul Vina



"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
useless!

Paul Vina wrote:

I can't even remember.

Did that answer your question???
Kinda.

what was your question then???


Paul Vina

it usta not been important if you cant even remember what
the question was!!

No wonder I didnt answer right away, I prolly didnt even
realize it was a question...

Paul Vina wrote:

I wasn't the one dancing around the question with a ****load of sarcasm and
cracking jokes instead of answering it in the first place.

Paul Vina

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
useless!

Paul Vina wrote:

I can't even remember.

Did that answer your question???
Kinda.

what was your question then???


Paul Vina