Hey everyone. I'm trying to decide which deck to put in my car to
replace my stock HU

Primary wants:
*MP3 capability with ID3 translation.

*Decent/Large Display for viewing Text.

*Good sound quality, but not willing to pay for super-high end. I'd
like to stay around $300 or so.

*Ideally the unit will utilize Play Lists and random-play sub folders.

*I may very well add a sub or replace stock speakers and add amps,
etc, so that flexibility would be nice, but not a priority. I'd
prefer it to sound solid as it is without needing to add amps.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Alpine, but the feature set of the
Clarion is making me hesitate. I understand that Eclipse makes great
decks, but, I think I'll be dissapointed in the feature set just to
get a little bit better sound quality, if any.

Thanks for the thoughts.

I'd go with Alpine. I haven't felt Clarion made a solid HU since the
original ProAudio heads in 92 and 93 (like my old 6770) no matter how many
bells and whistles they put in them. My wife and I both have the 9815
(almost identical to the 9813) and I couldn't recommend them more. The
Eclipse IMO does not sound any better then the Alpine (I had a 55430) so go
for the Alpine.


Paul Vina



"Mike" wrote in message
om...
Hey everyone. I'm trying to decide which deck to put in my car to
replace my stock HU

Primary wants:
*MP3 capability with ID3 translation.

*Decent/Large Display for viewing Text.

*Good sound quality, but not willing to pay for super-high end. I'd
like to stay around $300 or so.

*Ideally the unit will utilize Play Lists and random-play sub folders.

*I may very well add a sub or replace stock speakers and add amps,
etc, so that flexibility would be nice, but not a priority. I'd
prefer it to sound solid as it is without needing to add amps.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Alpine, but the feature set of the
Clarion is making me hesitate. I understand that Eclipse makes great
decks, but, I think I'll be dissapointed in the feature set just to
get a little bit better sound quality, if any.

Thanks for the thoughts.

I agree with Paul on most of his points. Clarion's HU have been going downhill
in the quality dept. sine the early 1990s, Alpine and Eclipse both offer
superior sound quality to the Clarion, and sound approx. the same as each
other. I personally couldn't get into the Alpine decks only because I didn't
like their user interface. Pick whichever of the two you like using more, I
love my Eclipse deck.

I agre with Steve, Eclipse's user interface is a lot simpler on the 55430 I
had but I haven't used either of the new units with DSP so I can't say how
easy they are to use. After having my 9815 for a coupl eof weeks it's
gotten a LOT easier to use, not nearly as unintuitive as I first thought.
Also, most of the Eclipse units will require the purchase and installation
of the Commander unit to play back MP3s. If that's a big thing for you look
at the Alpine a bit more.



Paul Vina


"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
I agree with Paul on most of his points. Clarion's HU have been going
downhill
in the quality dept. sine the early 1990s, Alpine and Eclipse both offer
superior sound quality to the Clarion, and sound approx. the same as each
other. I personally couldn't get into the Alpine decks only because I
didn't
like their user interface. Pick whichever of the two you like using more,
I
love my Eclipse deck.

Also, most of the Eclipse units will require the purchase and installation
of the Commander unit to play back MP3s.

This is true, and the only downside to Eclipse decks like mine IMHO. If what
you're looking for is a deck packed with features, with an easy-interface and a
"bargin" price, check out Blaupunkt and Pioneer. Alpine and Eclipse will get
you better sound quality, but you pay for it, and any added features. Albeit, I
haggled my Eclipse CD8443 down to $440 installed, a good price and less than
the normal MSRP for both it and the 9815.

*laughs* Ya know, I was actually counting the buttons on the
different units. I'd really prefer it have MORE buttons than less.
Should give me more access to things without looking. I don't mind
complex. It keeps people from messing with my settings! Plus, I like
a good challenge.

I'm really most interested in MP3 capabilities and the display, but I
want it to sound good, of course.

The Eclipse 3413 does come with MP3 capabilities, though I haven't
figured out if it will read ID3 tags, which would be a big issue if it
doesn't. Also, I like the fact that the Alpine will play Play Lists
and you can search for artists, etc. Pretty nice features, really. A
friend at work has an Alpine that he got a couple of years ago and it
only shows directory numbers and song numbers instead of text.

Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly up to
your car battery? What's up with that? I read on another thread that
that's how it was supposed to be connected, but others said that
wasn't necessarily true.

Thanks.

"Paul Vina" wrote in message news:OZ7yb.255554$275.930989@attbi_s53...
I agre with Steve, Eclipse's user interface is a lot simpler on the 55430 I
had but I haven't used either of the new units with DSP so I can't say how
easy they are to use. After having my 9815 for a coupl eof weeks it's
gotten a LOT easier to use, not nearly as unintuitive as I first thought.
Also, most of the Eclipse units will require the purchase and installation
of the Commander unit to play back MP3s. If that's a big thing for you look
at the Alpine a bit more.



Paul Vina


"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
I agree with Paul on most of his points. Clarion's HU have been going
downhill
in the quality dept. sine the early 1990s, Alpine and Eclipse both offer
superior sound quality to the Clarion, and sound approx. the same as each
other. I personally couldn't get into the Alpine decks only because I
didn't
like their user interface. Pick whichever of the two you like using more,
I
love my Eclipse deck.

WOW! That's a great price. I might have gone with an Eclipse for that
price. Although, everytime I try another make I always want to go back to an
Alpine. In fact, I still regret selling my 7618. Gotta love classic Alpine
cosmetics.



Paul Vina



"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
Also, most of the Eclipse units will require the purchase and
installation
of the Commander unit to play back MP3s.

This is true, and the only downside to Eclipse decks like mine IMHO. If
what
you're looking for is a deck packed with features, with an easy-interface
and a
"bargin" price, check out Blaupunkt and Pioneer. Alpine and Eclipse will
get
you better sound quality, but you pay for it, and any added features.
Albeit, I
haggled my Eclipse CD8443 down to $440 installed, a good price and less
than
the normal MSRP for both it and the 9815.

Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly up to
your car battery? What's up with that? I read on another thread that
that's how it was supposed to be connected, but others said that
wasn't necessarily true.


It's marketing. If that HU amp really put out enough power to justify a
10ga. power kit than it wouldn't fit a HU to begin with. I have never, and
will never, wire an Alpine to the battry with a 10ga. kit. Besides, the
factory B+ lead goes to the battery as well, doesn't it? Hmmmm.



Paul Vina

Hey Steve:

Do you by chance know how much the Commander is (or will be) selling
for? Are you going to upgrade to that for Voice Control and MP3
capabilities? If I did upgrade to the 5433/5423, any idea of what I
might be able to get one of those for? Considering the fact that you
got a great deal, I was wondering if you could tell me how you got it
at that price!

I'm not going to go with anything that is Bargain price. I want nice
features, but don't want to give up good sound and good build quality.
That's why I'm now choosing between the Alpine and the Eclipse. The
Clarion is out. Too many people saying they are going down hill now.
Which is unfortunate, but it's probably their own fault.

Thanks.

(Steve Grauman) wrote in message ...
Also, most of the Eclipse units will require the purchase and installation
of the Commander unit to play back MP3s.

This is true, and the only downside to Eclipse decks like mine IMHO. If what
you're looking for is a deck packed with features, with an easy-interface and a
"bargin" price, check out Blaupunkt and Pioneer. Alpine and Eclipse will get
you better sound quality, but you pay for it, and any added features. Albeit, I
haggled my Eclipse CD8443 down to $440 installed, a good price and less than
the normal MSRP for both it and the 9815.

WOW! That's a great price.

It took a lot of back and forth banter, and what may count as cheating on my
part to get the price. But I didn't hold a gun to anyone for it, and I think
the guy who sold me the deck is betting on the hopes that I'll come back to him
for the rest of my system. Besides, that shop does huge installs on
Lamborghinis, Porsches, Ferraris, BMWs, Audis, etc... all day long. He can
afford to sell one deck at cost. It really worked out well for me, I went in
figuring it was gonna cost $550-$600 after the install.

I might have gone with an Eclipse for that
price.

It was a hard choice. I liked the sound of both my CD8443 and the CDA-9815. It
simply came down to the user interface problems I had with the Alpine.

Although, everytime I try another make I always want to go back to an
Alpine.

I'll use nothing but Alpine and Eclipse as far as decks are concerned. The NAK
stuff sounds nice but is far to unreliable, the Blaupunkt stuff sounds almost
as good, but not quite, Pioneer doesn't come close, but they are reliable and
easy to use.

In fact, I still regret selling my 7618. Gotta love classic Alpine
cosmetics.

I can't stand the way those old decks look. LOL. It's the sound quality I like.

Do you by chance know how much the Commander is (or will be) selling
for?

Not a clue, sorry.

Are you going to upgrade to that for Voice Control and MP3
capabilities?

The MP3 playback is tempting, however I have no use for the voice control or
cell phone handling capabilities. I think I'll just use one of the AUX inputs
and buy a portable MP3 player for use in the car.

If I did upgrade to the 5433/5423, any idea of what I
might be able to get one of those for?

If you shop retail stores, expect to pay MSRP or very close to it. You'll get a
better deal shopping at a non-chain store that sells only Car Audio equipment.
But there's no way for me to give you an exact price.

Considering the fact that you
got a great deal, I was wondering if you could tell me how you got it
at that price!

I noticed that The Good Guys! website was having a special - 10% off purchases
higher than $299, No Tax, and No Shipping Charges. The problem was, they don't
sell Eclipse product through the website, and the asses at my local store
refused to match the website deal, claiming that the website had exclusive
pricing because it was run by someone else for the company. I called Al & Eds
(whom I throughly dislike) and told them about the deal, leaving out the part
about Eclipse product being unavaliable on the website, and got them to take
12% off the MSRP of the 8443. I then called the shop I actually wanted to buy
from, and told him the deal A&E wanted to give me, and in a panic to get my
business, he offered me the deck, installed for $440.

Not sure if the B+ lead goes to the battery or not...

I've heard that etronics is not an "authorized" Alpine distributor.
Would you be concerned about that given that the warranties are only 1
year anyway and that they are well built machines? I can get the 9813
for $285 from Etronics...Though, I'd consider spending a couple more
dollars to get the warranty, though, if it's much more I'll have to
drop down to the 9811 because it'll go past what I'm willing to spend.
Anyone know of a cheap place to get Alpine from an authorized dealer?

Thanks.
Mike

"Paul Vina" wrote in message news:evgyb.260535$275.940640@attbi_s53...
Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly up to
your car battery? What's up with that? I read on another thread that
that's how it was supposed to be connected, but others said that
wasn't necessarily true.


It's marketing. If that HU amp really put out enough power to justify a
10ga. power kit than it wouldn't fit a HU to begin with. I have never, and
will never, wire an Alpine to the battry with a 10ga. kit. Besides, the
factory B+ lead goes to the battery as well, doesn't it? Hmmmm.



Paul Vina

The cheapest I've seen it from an Authorized dealer is $399. Even with my
ex-employee discount I would only save $30 or off of retail. There is no
margin in Alpine electronics. Their
speakers are another matter entirely though.


Paul Vina



"Mike" wrote in message
m...
Not sure if the B+ lead goes to the battery or not...

I've heard that etronics is not an "authorized" Alpine distributor.
Would you be concerned about that given that the warranties are only 1
year anyway and that they are well built machines? I can get the 9813
for $285 from Etronics...Though, I'd consider spending a couple more
dollars to get the warranty, though, if it's much more I'll have to
drop down to the 9811 because it'll go past what I'm willing to spend.
Anyone know of a cheap place to get Alpine from an authorized dealer?

Thanks.
Mike

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:evgyb.260535$275.940640@attbi_s53...
Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly up to
your car battery? What's up with that? I read on another thread that
that's how it was supposed to be connected, but others said that
wasn't necessarily true.


It's marketing. If that HU amp really put out enough power to justify a
10ga. power kit than it wouldn't fit a HU to begin with. I have never,
and
will never, wire an Alpine to the battry with a 10ga. kit. Besides, the
factory B+ lead goes to the battery as well, doesn't it? Hmmmm.



Paul Vina

"Paul Vina" wrote in message news:Er6zb.282778


"Mike" wrote in message
m...

Am I the only one who still likes Clarion, sure after the 9375 they haven't
been the same but there far from horrible, just not as good. They still put
a whole lot of stuff in a deck, for better or worse.

I stopped liking them after they went to that stupid secong version of the
Alpha-touch volume with the ball instead of the little pyramid. They were
absolute garbage for about 6 years after that.



Paul Vina



"Tha Ghee" wrote in message
...

"Paul Vina" wrote in message news:Er6zb.282778


"Mike" wrote in message
m...

Am I the only one who still likes Clarion, sure after the 9375 they
haven't
been the same but there far from horrible, just not as good. They still
put
a whole lot of stuff in a deck, for better or worse.

Clarion quickly made my list of products not to buy after knowing someone who
needed to exchange their deck twice under warranty before getting one that
worked properly. And even then, I was un-impressed by it's sound quality.
Nakamichi, Sony, Aiwa, and Panasonic are on the list as well, although the Nak
units do sound quite nice. As far as bang for the buck goes in terms of the
price:features ratio, I think Blaupunkt and Pioneer have the market beat. And,
IMHO, Alpine and Eclipse own the SQ arena. Although I think the Nak units offer
a damn good sound, and I hear that McIntosh's deck is quite nice as well,
although I've never heard it before.

Sony wasn't crap until they disolved the mobileES line a couple of years ago
and it was downhill from there. Too bad really. For the money I'd do a
Pioneer or live with a few less features and get an lower end Eclipse or
Alpine.



Paul Vina



"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
Clarion quickly made my list of products not to buy after knowing someone
who
needed to exchange their deck twice under warranty before getting one that
worked properly. And even then, I was un-impressed by it's sound quality.
Nakamichi, Sony, Aiwa, and Panasonic are on the list as well, although the
Nak
units do sound quite nice. As far as bang for the buck goes in terms of
the
price:features ratio, I think Blaupunkt and Pioneer have the market beat.
And,
IMHO, Alpine and Eclipse own the SQ arena. Although I think the Nak units
offer
a damn good sound, and I hear that McIntosh's deck is quite nice as well,
although I've never heard it before.

Hey Paul. I thought I responded to this the other day, but my message
never posted.

Anyway, I have a follow-up question for you. Given that Alpine makes
such good decks was the warranty important to you at all? I ask
because I found the 9813 for $285 from Etronics, but apparently they
aren't an "authorized" dealer and therefore the warranty would be
void...I'm just wondering how much I should care about that given how
good Alpine HUs are.

Also, anyone know of a place that is an authorized Alpine dealer that
sells them for less than retail?

Thanks!

"Paul Vina" wrote in message news:evgyb.260535$275.940640@attbi_s53...
Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly up to
your car battery? What's up with that? I read on another thread that
that's how it was supposed to be connected, but others said that
wasn't necessarily true.


It's marketing. If that HU amp really put out enough power to justify a
10ga. power kit than it wouldn't fit a HU to begin with. I have never, and
will never, wire an Alpine to the battry with a 10ga. kit. Besides, the
factory B+ lead goes to the battery as well, doesn't it? Hmmmm.



Paul Vina

This should answer your question, I bought 2 9815s from Indo Audio on eBay
from my car and my wife's cars. I don't remember the last time I saw a
bad Alpine out of the box.


Paul Vina




"Mike" wrote in message
om...
Hey Paul. I thought I responded to this the other day, but my message
never posted.

Anyway, I have a follow-up question for you. Given that Alpine makes
such good decks was the warranty important to you at all? I ask
because I found the 9813 for $285 from Etronics, but apparently they
aren't an "authorized" dealer and therefore the warranty would be
void...I'm just wondering how much I should care about that given how
good Alpine HUs are.

Also, anyone know of a place that is an authorized Alpine dealer that
sells them for less than retail?

Thanks!

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:evgyb.260535$275.940640@attbi_s53...
Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly up to
your car battery? What's up with that? I read on another thread that
that's how it was supposed to be connected, but others said that
wasn't necessarily true.


It's marketing. If that HU amp really put out enough power to justify a
10ga. power kit than it wouldn't fit a HU to begin with. I have never,
and
will never, wire an Alpine to the battry with a 10ga. kit. Besides, the
factory B+ lead goes to the battery as well, doesn't it? Hmmmm.



Paul Vina

Sony wasn't crap until they disolved the mobileES line a couple of years ago
and it was downhill from there

I never thought any of their non-ES product was worthwhile, but I definitely
agree that their ES Car Audio product was kick-ass. When I began shopping for
decks several months ago, a local dealer still had a brand-spankin' new
CDX-C90ES that I was really tempted to buy, nice deck. Although I'd think that
my CD8443 should be able to perform as well or better.

I've had a C90 and it blows anything Eclipse makes currently or has made
completely out of the water. The only HUs I've heard that are even in it's
performance category are the Alpine 7990, Pioneer ODR cd HU, Pioneer XES HU
(that's not really a fair comparison though) and the Alpine 7909.


Paul Vina



"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
Sony wasn't crap until they disolved the mobileES line a couple of
years ago
and it was downhill from there

I never thought any of their non-ES product was worthwhile, but I
definitely
agree that their ES Car Audio product was kick-ass. When I began shopping
for
decks several months ago, a local dealer still had a brand-spankin' new
CDX-C90ES that I was really tempted to buy, nice deck. Although I'd think
that
my CD8443 should be able to perform as well or better.

*laughs* Yeah, that definitely answers my question. You've put your
money where your mouth is!

For all practical purposes, the Alpine 9813 and Eclipse 3413 are
basically the same price, the difference being that the Eclipse would
be purchased with a warranty the Alpine without.

Obviously as you look at the two the Alpine has more features than the
Eclipse. Much larger display, Bass Pro system, etc. But, most people
say that the Eclipse has better sound quality and an easier to use
user interface. The Alpine also comes with a remote, though I'd
ultimately be using a PAC-SWI so I'd only need the remote to program
the the PAC-SWI...

Thanks so much for your thoughts.
Mike

PS:
Not sure why I never saw the other posts you guys made 2 days ago,
though I can see them now!

"Paul Vina" wrote in message news:Kjyzb.413082$Tr4.1189867@attbi_s03...
This should answer your question, I bought 2 9815s from Indo Audio on eBay
from my car and my wife's cars. I don't remember the last time I saw a
bad Alpine out of the box.


Paul Vina




"Mike" wrote in message
om...
Hey Paul. I thought I responded to this the other day, but my message
never posted.

Anyway, I have a follow-up question for you. Given that Alpine makes
such good decks was the warranty important to you at all? I ask
because I found the 9813 for $285 from Etronics, but apparently they
aren't an "authorized" dealer and therefore the warranty would be
void...I'm just wondering how much I should care about that given how
good Alpine HUs are.

Also, anyone know of a place that is an authorized Alpine dealer that
sells them for less than retail?

Thanks!

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:evgyb.260535$275.940640@attbi_s53...
Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly up to
your car battery? What's up with that? I read on another thread that
that's how it was supposed to be connected, but others said that
wasn't necessarily true.


It's marketing. If that HU amp really put out enough power to justify a
10ga. power kit than it wouldn't fit a HU to begin with. I have never,
and
will never, wire an Alpine to the battry with a 10ga. kit. Besides, the
factory B+ lead goes to the battery as well, doesn't it? Hmmmm.



Paul Vina

I'd still go with the Alpine. As bad as everyone says the control interface
is the only functions that are buried are the ones you shouldn't be
adjusting while driving anyway like the time correction and the crossover.
All of the day to day stuff is VERY easy to use. And don't discount the
Bass Engine Pro functions. You'd be surprised how much less eq a system
needs when there aren't as many phase issues.



Paul Vina


"Mike" wrote in message
om...
*laughs* Yeah, that definitely answers my question. You've put your
money where your mouth is!

For all practical purposes, the Alpine 9813 and Eclipse 3413 are
basically the same price, the difference being that the Eclipse would
be purchased with a warranty the Alpine without.

Obviously as you look at the two the Alpine has more features than the
Eclipse. Much larger display, Bass Pro system, etc. But, most people
say that the Eclipse has better sound quality and an easier to use
user interface. The Alpine also comes with a remote, though I'd
ultimately be using a PAC-SWI so I'd only need the remote to program
the the PAC-SWI...

Thanks so much for your thoughts.
Mike

PS:
Not sure why I never saw the other posts you guys made 2 days ago,
though I can see them now!

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:Kjyzb.413082$Tr4.1189867@attbi_s03...
This should answer your question, I bought 2 9815s from Indo Audio on
eBay
from my car and my wife's cars. I don't remember the last time I
saw a
bad Alpine out of the box.


Paul Vina




"Mike" wrote in message
om...
Hey Paul. I thought I responded to this the other day, but my message
never posted.

Anyway, I have a follow-up question for you. Given that Alpine makes
such good decks was the warranty important to you at all? I ask
because I found the 9813 for $285 from Etronics, but apparently they
aren't an "authorized" dealer and therefore the warranty would be
void...I'm just wondering how much I should care about that given how
good Alpine HUs are.

Also, anyone know of a place that is an authorized Alpine dealer that
sells them for less than retail?

Thanks!

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:evgyb.260535$275.940640@attbi_s53...
Hey Paul, when you hooked up your 9815, did you hook it directly
up to
your car battery? What's up with that? I read on another thread
that
that's how it was supposed to be connected, but others said that
wasn't necessarily true.


It's marketing. If that HU amp really put out enough power to
justify a
10ga. power kit than it wouldn't fit a HU to begin with. I have
never,
and
will never, wire an Alpine to the battry with a 10ga. kit. Besides,
the
factory B+ lead goes to the battery as well, doesn't it? Hmmmm.



Paul Vina

I've had a C90 and it blows anything Eclipse makes currently or has made
completely out of the water.

I find that hard to believe. My CD8443 and the "higher end" CD8053 are a newer
design with newer 24-bit DACs and a particularly good CD section. How much
better, if at all, could the C90 be?

The C90 had 4 24-bit D/A and you could change the filter type. There's
never been another HU on the planet that did that. It was pretty bad ass.
If they didn't have *magi-color* diplays that changed colors depending on
how hot it was in your car I'd have kept mine.


Paul Vina



"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
I've had a C90 and it blows anything Eclipse makes currently or has
made
completely out of the water.

I find that hard to believe. My CD8443 and the "higher end" CD8053 are a
newer
design with newer 24-bit DACs and a particularly good CD section. How much
better, if at all, could the C90 be?

The C90 had 4 24-bit D/A and you could change the filter type.

I thought the C90 used 20-bit units. My CD8443 has 24-bit DACs, but only 2 as
far as I know.

Hmmmmm......it might be 20's. It's been almost 3 years since I had it. But
the ability to change the low pass filter alone makes it worth it. It makes
a much bigger difference than you'd think.


Paul Vina



"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
The C90 had 4 24-bit D/A and you could change the filter type.

I thought the C90 used 20-bit units. My CD8443 has 24-bit DACs, but only 2
as
far as I know.

Hmmmmm......it might be 20's. It's been almost 3 years since I had it

I'm fairly positive the C90 had 20-Bit DACs. What exactly does changing the low
pass filter do? What advantage comes of it?

It's not the low pass filter for the sub, but rather the low-pass filter
that all cd players have because the sampling freq. is so low. The main
difference is in the top end. It can sharpen it up, smooth it out and so
on. It has 4 settings and they all do sound different. All you do is try
them on the fly until you find the one you like. There are digital "a" and
"b" and analog "a" and "b". I like the two analog settings since they were
softer sounding but they're all really good sounding. The filters do change
the bass a bit but it's not nearly as noticeable as the top end changes.

Also I really liked the fact that there are 4 D/A converters.




Paul Vina


"Steve Grauman" wrote in message
...
Hmmmmm......it might be 20's. It's been almost 3 years since I had it


I'm fairly positive the C90 had 20-Bit DACs. What exactly does changing
the low
pass filter do? What advantage comes of it?

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:yZGzb.224178$Dw6.800520@attbi_s02...
I've had a C90 and it blows anything Eclipse makes currently or has made
completely out of the water. The only HUs I've heard that are even in
it's
performance category are the Alpine 7990, Pioneer ODR cd HU, Pioneer XES
HU
(that's not really a fair comparison though) and the Alpine 7909.


Paul Vina

how can you leave out the kissing cousins of HU McIn 4k and Cla 9255
the Sony XES which used the ES for it's foundation.

I really liked the ole soundstream set up, and PPI

how can you leave out the kissing cousins of HU McIn 4k and Cla 9255
the Sony XES which used the ES for it's foundation.


The XES HU doesn't really have anything in common with the C90 except that
they're both Sony products. The Z50 has an in-dash controller and trunk
mounted changer/processor combo as it's source. It walks all over the C90.
I did like the 9255 but the few people I knew that had them said they had
lots of problems with them and they didn't recomend them. Never heard of
any problems with the McIntosh version. Go figure.



I really liked the ole soundstream set up, and PPI


The original Rubicons were my favorite SSs. I like the PCX PPIs. Great
sounding (not as nice as the Art series though) and flexible as hell.



Paul Vina