Is the Audio quality of DVD players as a rule generally better than
simmilarly priced Cd players?. My cd player is broken and based on
prices it seems to be a better deal to buy a DVD player instead, I am
looking at players below US$200.0 dollars. Any recommendations in this
price range?.
Orville.

Orville Phillips wrote:

Is the Audio quality of DVD players as a rule generally better than
simmilarly priced Cd players?. My cd player is broken and based on
prices it seems to be a better deal to buy a DVD player instead, I am
looking at players below US$200.0 dollars. Any recommendations in this
price range?.
Orville.

If you have any interest in DVD-A and/or SACD, Pioneer's DV-563, a
universal player, sells for around $160 online. It is a decent DVD
player, too.

The JVC 600 has great audio and video. Low street price. Doesn't
play SACD. Does play A coding. Unless you're into Sony SACDs, it's
no loss. Last review I saw rated JVC and Panasonic with better audio
than Sony ... making SACD a moot point. I got the JVC because the DVD
section had some better performance abilities.

On 3 Feb 2004 05:10:03 GMT, (Orville Phillips)
wrote:

Is the Audio quality of DVD players as a rule generally better than
simmilarly priced Cd players?. My cd player is broken and based on
prices it seems to be a better deal to buy a DVD player instead, I am
looking at players below US$200.0 dollars. Any recommendations in this
price range?.
Orville.

In my system the Panasonic S55 soundly trounced the JVC-600 and an older
Toshiba 4700 in DVD-A audio quality, although being marginally inferior in
Video (IMHO, as I'm not a video person).

The Panny also beat out the Sony c222es, but the Sony beat out the JVC and
Toshiba. This was only a few weeks ago.

wrote in message
news:TxQ1c.479425$na.1152962@attbi_s04...
The JVC 600 has great audio and video. Low street price. Doesn't
play SACD. Does play A coding. Unless you're into Sony SACDs, it's
no loss. Last review I saw rated JVC and Panasonic with better audio
than Sony ... making SACD a moot point. I got the JVC because the DVD
section had some better performance abilities.

On 3 Feb 2004 05:10:03 GMT, (Orville Phillips)
wrote:

Is the Audio quality of DVD players as a rule generally better than
simmilarly priced Cd players?. My cd player is broken and based on
prices it seems to be a better deal to buy a DVD player instead, I am
looking at players below US$200.0 dollars. Any recommendations in this
price range?.
Orville.

Harry Lavo wrote:

In my system the Panasonic S55 soundly trounced the JVC-600 and an older
Toshiba 4700 in DVD-A audio quality, although being marginally inferior in
Video (IMHO, as I'm not a video person).

The Panny also beat out the Sony c222es, but the Sony beat out the JVC and
Toshiba. This was only a few weeks ago.

wrote in message
news:TxQ1c.479425$na.1152962@attbi_s04...

The JVC 600 has great audio and video. Low street price. Doesn't
play SACD. Does play A coding. Unless you're into Sony SACDs, it's
no loss. Last review I saw rated JVC and Panasonic with better audio
than Sony ... making SACD a moot point. I got the JVC because the DVD
section had some better performance abilities.

On 3 Feb 2004 05:10:03 GMT, (Orville Phillips)
wrote:


Is the Audio quality of DVD players as a rule generally better than
simmilarly priced Cd players?. My cd player is broken and based on
prices it seems to be a better deal to buy a DVD player instead, I am
looking at players below US$200.0 dollars. Any recommendations in this
price range?.
Orville.

Now, here's the thing with DVD players as replacement CD players: CD
players are built to play only CDs, so they tend to have alot more
features, like programming a disk's tracks, be able to switch CDs in
multi-CD changer while one is still playing etc. DVD players can do all
that, but they're functionality tends to be a bit clunky, and you may
sometimes always have to turn the TV on to find and enable the feature
you want.

Case in point: I have a Panasonic S35 DVD player which has replaced my
Denon CD changer simply because it sounds so much better than it. I do
miss, though, being able to program the disk tracks without turning on
the TV.

So, I was wondering, how do these newer DVD players, like the JVC and
others function as CD players? Is the TV still an absolute necessity to
use the CD features?

CD

"Codifus" wrote in message
...
Harry Lavo wrote:

In my system the Panasonic S55 soundly trounced the JVC-600 and an older
Toshiba 4700 in DVD-A audio quality, although being marginally inferior
in
Video (IMHO, as I'm not a video person).

The Panny also beat out the Sony c222es, but the Sony beat out the JVC
and
Toshiba. This was only a few weeks ago.

wrote in message
news:TxQ1c.479425$na.1152962@attbi_s04...

The JVC 600 has great audio and video. Low street price. Doesn't
play SACD. Does play A coding. Unless you're into Sony SACDs, it's
no loss. Last review I saw rated JVC and Panasonic with better audio
than Sony ... making SACD a moot point. I got the JVC because the DVD
section had some better performance abilities.

On 3 Feb 2004 05:10:03 GMT, (Orville Phillips)
wrote:


Is the Audio quality of DVD players as a rule generally better than
simmilarly priced Cd players?. My cd player is broken and based on
prices it seems to be a better deal to buy a DVD player instead, I am
looking at players below US$200.0 dollars. Any recommendations in this
price range?.
Orville.

Now, here's the thing with DVD players as replacement CD players: CD
players are built to play only CDs, so they tend to have alot more
features, like programming a disk's tracks, be able to switch CDs in
multi-CD changer while one is still playing etc. DVD players can do all
that, but they're functionality tends to be a bit clunky, and you may
sometimes always have to turn the TV on to find and enable the feature
you want.

Case in point: I have a Panasonic S35 DVD player which has replaced my
Denon CD changer simply because it sounds so much better than it. I do
miss, though, being able to program the disk tracks without turning on
the TV.

So, I was wondering, how do these newer DVD players, like the JVC and
others function as CD players? Is the TV still an absolute necessity to
use the CD features?

Not for the S55, which also contains upsampling for CD's. You use it like
any other CD player (the S55 is single drawer). The remote has track
buttons that work when the cd is playing. You do have to start play first,
though, but to me that's not a big deal.

Harry Lavo wrote:
"Codifus" wrote in message
...

Harry Lavo wrote:


In my system the Panasonic S55 soundly trounced the JVC-600 and an older
Toshiba 4700 in DVD-A audio quality, although being marginally inferior

in

Video (IMHO, as I'm not a video person).

The Panny also beat out the Sony c222es, but the Sony beat out the JVC

and

Toshiba. This was only a few weeks ago.

wrote in message
news:TxQ1c.479425$na.1152962@attbi_s04...


The JVC 600 has great audio and video. Low street price. Doesn't
play SACD. Does play A coding. Unless you're into Sony SACDs, it's
no loss. Last review I saw rated JVC and Panasonic with better audio
than Sony ... making SACD a moot point. I got the JVC because the DVD
section had some better performance abilities.

On 3 Feb 2004 05:10:03 GMT, (Orville Phillips)
wrote:



Is the Audio quality of DVD players as a rule generally better than
simmilarly priced Cd players?. My cd player is broken and based on
prices it seems to be a better deal to buy a DVD player instead, I am
looking at players below US$200.0 dollars. Any recommendations in this
price range?.
Orville.

Now, here's the thing with DVD players as replacement CD players: CD
players are built to play only CDs, so they tend to have alot more
features, like programming a disk's tracks, be able to switch CDs in
multi-CD changer while one is still playing etc. DVD players can do all
that, but they're functionality tends to be a bit clunky, and you may
sometimes always have to turn the TV on to find and enable the feature
you want.

Case in point: I have a Panasonic S35 DVD player which has replaced my
Denon CD changer simply because it sounds so much better than it. I do
miss, though, being able to program the disk tracks without turning on
the TV.

So, I was wondering, how do these newer DVD players, like the JVC and
others function as CD players? Is the TV still an absolute necessity to
use the CD features?


Not for the S55, which also contains upsampling for CD's. You use it like
any other CD player (the S55 is single drawer). The remote has track
buttons that work when the cd is playing. You do have to start play first,
though, but to me that's not a big deal.

Call me skeptical, but I would think that my junior S35 to your S55
would have a similar, if not identical interface. I know you can play
your tracks sequentially without turning on a TV. OK, let's say you want
to play track, 5,4,7,and 9, in that order. can you set that up without
turning on the TV?

CD

"Codifus" wrote in message
...
Harry Lavo wrote:
"Codifus" wrote in message
...

snip, irrelevant to points below

Case in point: I have a Panasonic S35 DVD player which has replaced my
Denon CD changer simply because it sounds so much better than it. I do
miss, though, being able to program the disk tracks without turning on
the TV.

So, I was wondering, how do these newer DVD players, like the JVC and
others function as CD players? Is the TV still an absolute necessity to
use the CD features?


Not for the S55, which also contains upsampling for CD's. You use it
like
any other CD player (the S55 is single drawer). The remote has track
buttons that work when the cd is playing. You do have to start play
first,
though, but to me that's not a big deal.

Call me skeptical, but I would think that my junior S35 to your S55
would have a similar, if not identical interface. I know you can play
your tracks sequentially without turning on a TV. OK, let's say you want
to play track, 5,4,7,and 9, in that order. can you set that up without
turning on the TV?

Since I don't normally use program play, I wanted to research the issue
before responding.

Yes, the S55 does have program play and it is settable from the on-unit
menus and does not require the tv to be on. When you hit the "Play Mode"
button on the remote, it brings up random; hit it again, it brings up
"P1"..you enter the track you want first, it brings up "P2"...enter the
track you want second, and so on. When done just hit "Enter" and it will
start playing. When you want to switch out of program mode, hit "Play Mode"
again until the last track on the CD shows up. Then hit play.

BTW I'm doing this from about 10 feet from the unit...and can see the menus
clearly.

Also, BTW, the instruction manual is so sketch is to be non-existent on this
and many other features. Of the three DVD players I've had, it is far and
away the worst until you get the hang of the fact that the features are
there if you look carefully enough, but no instructions on how to use them.

If your S35 doesn't have these audio convenience features (they mostly need
the remote), I'd suggest selling it or relegating it to secondary DVD duty
and buying the S55. In addition to great sound and good convenience
features, you will get both stereo and multichannel DVD-A. And a unit that
outputs 24/96 through it's digital outs. Hard to beat for $129.95 MSRSP!

Hope this helps.

Harry Lavo wrote:

"Codifus" wrote in message
...

Harry Lavo wrote:

"Codifus" wrote in message
...


snip, irrelevant to points below


Case in point: I have a Panasonic S35 DVD player which has replaced my
Denon CD changer simply because it sounds so much better than it. I do
miss, though, being able to program the disk tracks without turning on
the TV.

So, I was wondering, how do these newer DVD players, like the JVC and
others function as CD players? Is the TV still an absolute necessity to
use the CD features?


Not for the S55, which also contains upsampling for CD's. You use it

like

any other CD player (the S55 is single drawer). The remote has track
buttons that work when the cd is playing. You do have to start play

first,

though, but to me that's not a big deal.


Call me skeptical, but I would think that my junior S35 to your S55
would have a similar, if not identical interface. I know you can play
your tracks sequentially without turning on a TV. OK, let's say you want
to play track, 5,4,7,and 9, in that order. can you set that up without
turning on the TV?


Since I don't normally use program play, I wanted to research the issue
before responding.

Yes, the S55 does have program play and it is settable from the on-unit
menus and does not require the tv to be on. When you hit the "Play Mode"
button on the remote, it brings up random; hit it again, it brings up
"P1"..you enter the track you want first, it brings up "P2"...enter the
track you want second, and so on. When done just hit "Enter" and it will
start playing. When you want to switch out of program mode, hit "Play Mode"
again until the last track on the CD shows up. Then hit play.

BTW I'm doing this from about 10 feet from the unit...and can see the menus
clearly.

Also, BTW, the instruction manual is so sketch is to be non-existent on this
and many other features. Of the three DVD players I've had, it is far and
away the worst until you get the hang of the fact that the features are
there if you look carefully enough, but no instructions on how to use them.

If your S35 doesn't have these audio convenience features (they mostly need
the remote), I'd suggest selling it or relegating it to secondary DVD duty
and buying the S55. In addition to great sound and good convenience
features, you will get both stereo and multichannel DVD-A. And a unit that
outputs 24/96 through it's digital outs. Hard to beat for $129.95 MSRSP!

Hope this helps.
Interesting. I followed your steps and found that I was able to program
without the TV as well. Maybe you should have written the manual! Like
you said, the documentation is all over the place. If you go to the
Panasonic site, you might deduce, as I did, that the S35, s55, s65, are
all the same piece of hardware, with certain features cut-off the lower
down the line you go. The ability to play DVD-As in my unit must be
there, just disabled somehow. I think we have the same 24/192 DAC.
Panasonic says that My S35 does not have the double remaster process. I
don't know, but it sounds very good playing audio CDs. I wonder if the
double remaster process benefits DVD-A more than regular CD, because my
S35 makes regular CDs sound great. When I bought my S35, I wasn't even
looking at it for sound. I just wanted a DVD player for video that also
played MP3s. This fit the bill. After some time with it I soon realized
that it sounded really good, good enough to even replace my CD player,
which I wasn't even looking to replace.

CD

Thanks for your responce, I am not interested an DVD-A just regular
cds.
I have been looking a few few low cost models such as Panasonic s25,
Toshiba 3950 and Daewoo 485 and also a Liteon LVD-2002 any feedback on
these?
Also how important is a 10bit/27mhz DAC vs a 54mhz DAC in these low
cost models?
thanks.
Orville.

"Codifus" wrote in message
...
Harry Lavo wrote:



snip

Since I don't normally use program play, I wanted to research the issue
before responding.

Yes, the S55 does have program play and it is settable from the on-unit
menus and does not require the tv to be on. When you hit the "Play
Mode"
button on the remote, it brings up random; hit it again, it brings up
"P1"..you enter the track you want first, it brings up "P2"...enter the
track you want second, and so on. When done just hit "Enter" and it
will
start playing. When you want to switch out of program mode, hit "Play
Mode"
again until the last track on the CD shows up. Then hit play.

BTW I'm doing this from about 10 feet from the unit...and can see the
menus
clearly.

Also, BTW, the instruction manual is so sketch is to be non-existent on
this
and many other features. Of the three DVD players I've had, it is far
and
away the worst until you get the hang of the fact that the features are
there if you look carefully enough, but no instructions on how to use
them.

If your S35 doesn't have these audio convenience features (they mostly
need
the remote), I'd suggest selling it or relegating it to secondary DVD
duty
and buying the S55. In addition to great sound and good convenience
features, you will get both stereo and multichannel DVD-A. And a unit
that
outputs 24/96 through it's digital outs. Hard to beat for $129.95
MSRSP!

Hope this helps.
Interesting. I followed your steps and found that I was able to program
without the TV as well. Maybe you should have written the manual! Like
you said, the documentation is all over the place. If you go to the
Panasonic site, you might deduce, as I did, that the S35, s55, s65, are
all the same piece of hardware, with certain features cut-off the lower
down the line you go. The ability to play DVD-As in my unit must be
there, just disabled somehow. I think we have the same 24/192 DAC.
Panasonic says that My S35 does not have the double remaster process. I
don't know, but it sounds very good playing audio CDs. I wonder if the
double remaster process benefits DVD-A more than regular CD, because my
S35 makes regular CDs sound great. When I bought my S35, I wasn't even
looking at it for sound. I just wanted a DVD player for video that also
played MP3s. This fit the bill. After some time with it I soon realized
that it sounded really good, good enough to even replace my CD player,
which I wasn't even looking to replace.

Yes, it is a good sounding unit and plays CD very well. The re-mastering
does work...(on signals 48khz and lower). It smoothes out the residual
"edginess" in the treble and allows the shimmer of cymbals, the edge of
horns, etc. to come through naturally. I ran a brief, non-blind but
volume-matched comparison today on Blood, Sweat, and Tears, comparing the CD
using re-master #1, the SACD on my Sony c222ES, and the record (still in
perfect condition) on my Lynn/Syrinx/Accuphase AC-2/modified Marcof PP2
phono system. The upsampled CD held its own with the SACD and the LP; the
Panasonic had a slight edge in transparency; the SACD and the LP were
slightly warmer in the bass and sounded virtually identical. These all
reflect the same stereo mix...identical in every detail and sync-able to the
second.

You've got a good CD player there; the S55 adds to it and adds DVD-A as
well.

Orville Phillips wrote:

Thanks for your responce, I am not interested an DVD-A just regular
cds.
I have been looking a few few low cost models such as Panasonic s25,
Toshiba 3950 and Daewoo 485 and also a Liteon LVD-2002 any feedback on
these?
Also how important is a 10bit/27mhz DAC vs a 54mhz DAC in these low
cost models?
thanks.
Orville.

Those are video DAC's and not related to audio.

Orville Phillips wrote:

Thanks for your responce, I am not interested an DVD-A just regular
cds.
I have been looking a few few low cost models such as Panasonic s25,
Toshiba 3950 and Daewoo 485 and also a Liteon LVD-2002 any feedback on
these?
Also how important is a 10bit/27mhz DAC vs a 54mhz DAC in these low
cost models?
thanks.
Orville.
My Panasonic S35 is for DVD videos and regular CDs, not DVD audio. The
S55 adds DVD-audio and other things like double remastering. I got the
S35 for $85. Those DACs you mentioned are for video quality. I don't
really know or care for the difference too much, just so long as its
clear and smooth. The audio DACs in the S25/S35/S55 all have a 24 bit
192 Khz DAC.

Look at this web page to compare the differences;

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CompareModels?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&catGro upId=11059&surfCategory=DVD%20Home%20Players&items =63379|63318|63056|65354|


hth

CD

On 3 Feb 2004 05:10:03 GMT, (Orville Phillips)
wrote:

Is the Audio quality of DVD players as a rule generally better than
simmilarly priced Cd players?. My cd player is broken and based on
prices it seems to be a better deal to buy a DVD player instead, I am
looking at players below US$200.0 dollars. Any recommendations in this
price range?.

So far people have been mainly commenting on features and convenience.
What about the sound? I'm wondering if I should have bought a cheap DVD
instead of my NAD C541i CD player last summer.

If the DVD player has to implement all the DVD features as well as CD,
could it be that the CD player is likely to have more $$ devoted to
parts and design related to CD sound? For example, better quality
analog output? Or does the DVD usually have the upper hand because
of better digital processing?

--David Finton

David Finton wrote:
On 3 Feb 2004 05:10:03 GMT, (Orville Phillips)
wrote:

Is the Audio quality of DVD players as a rule generally better than
simmilarly priced Cd players?. My cd player is broken and based on
prices it seems to be a better deal to buy a DVD player instead, I am
looking at players below US$200.0 dollars. Any recommendations in this
price range?.

So far people have been mainly commenting on features and convenience.
What about the sound? I'm wondering if I should have bought a cheap DVD
instead of my NAD C541i CD player last summer.

If the DVD player has to implement all the DVD features as well as CD,
could it be that the CD player is likely to have more $$ devoted to
parts and design related to CD sound?

There is at least one subjectivist, Mr. Lavo, who strongly believes his
sub-$100 DVD player sounds much better than most other CD players. Most
who are not subjectivists believe that CD players sound very similar in
general, among themselves and compared to DVD players. There may be
differences, but those are not significant (except in the case of poorly
designed boutique players, we may add).

Features may be a important discriminator, and there are some feature
differences between CD players and DVD players. For instance, a lot of
CD players have instant access to tracks on the front panel, and that
feature is missing in quite a few DVD players. Or maybe there is a
varible headphone output on a CD player, etc.

I wouldn't assume that if a CD player costs about the same as a DVD
player, then the CD player must have more $ spent on the sound. The
selling price is a very strong function of volume, and nowadays DVD
players are outselling CD players. The integrated circuits in the CD/DVD
players are really not that different, and should produce very similar
audio performance.

For example, better quality
analog output? Or does the DVD usually have the upper hand because
of better digital processing?

For flexibility, consider getting DVD players that also play another
hi-rez format. Almost all SACD players and DVD-A players are DVD players
also, and these are the players that allegedly have the highest audio
performance that is required by those formats.


--David Finton

"chung" wrote in message
news:h775c.13832$_w.309549@attbi_s53...

snip

There is at least one subjectivist, Mr. Lavo, who strongly believes his
sub-$100 DVD player sounds much better than most other CD players. Most
who are not subjectivists believe that CD players sound very similar in
general, among themselves and compared to DVD players. There may be
differences, but those are not significant (except in the case of poorly
designed boutique players, we may add).


Might as well mention it too him, since I have been brought into this reply.
The player is the Panasonic S55 (tack on another "S" for silver), a single
drawer DVD-V and DVD-Audio player. It also has upsampling, which improves
CD sound quality, and it has CD convenience features (shuffle play, track
programing, etc). It's main value, however, is that it has much better than
average analog output...as measured (subjectively) by transparency, focus,
and image stability.

Another well-regarded, inexpensive DVD player is the Pioneer 563, which
plays both SACD and DVD-Audio high-res disks as well as CD's and
conventional DVD-V's. I haven't heard it, so can't say much else other than
that it has gotten good audiophile "buzz" and a good write-up in the latest
issue of Britain's "Hi Fi News".

Features may be a important discriminator, and there are some feature
differences between CD players and DVD players. For instance, a lot of
CD players have instant access to tracks on the front panel, and that
feature is missing in quite a few DVD players. Or maybe there is a
varible headphone output on a CD player, etc.


The Panasonic has most CD features, a strength.

I wouldn't assume that if a CD player costs about the same as a DVD
player, then the CD player must have more $ spent on the sound. The
selling price is a very strong function of volume, and nowadays DVD
players are outselling CD players. The integrated circuits in the CD/DVD
players are really not that different, and should produce very similar
audio performance.

For example, better quality
analog output? Or does the DVD usually have the upper hand because
of better digital processing?

For flexibility, consider getting DVD players that also play another
hi-rez format. Almost all SACD players and DVD-A players are DVD players
also, and these are the players that allegedly have the highest audio
performance that is required by those formats.


Agree, and on practical grounds, for relatively little more than a straight
DVD-V player that plays CD, you can also take advantage of these new formats
and decide for yourself if their multichannel sound or enhanced transparency
appeal to you.

From: "Harry Lavo"

Another well-regarded, inexpensive DVD player is the Pioneer 563, which
plays both SACD and DVD-Audio high-res disks as well as CD's and
conventional DVD-V's. I haven't heard it, so can't say much else other than
that it has gotten good audiophile "buzz" and a good write-up in the latest
issue of Britain's "Hi Fi News".

Is anyone listening to this player, which sells for 179 at audio advisor?

Farrell8882 wrote:
From: "Harry Lavo"

Another well-regarded, inexpensive DVD player is the Pioneer 563, which
plays both SACD and DVD-Audio high-res disks as well as CD's and
conventional DVD-V's. I haven't heard it, so can't say much else other than
that it has gotten good audiophile "buzz" and a good write-up in the latest
issue of Britain's "Hi Fi News".

Is anyone listening to this player, which sells for 179 at audio advisor?

I bought it about a month ago, for $150, at Circuit City. Back then, I
had a gift certificate of $100 for buying a new cellphone, so it was
very little risk.

I have listened for maybe about 5 hours on this player, largely because
I have not bought many SACD's. I did make a careful comparison of one
recording that I am familiar with: Perahia's Goldberg Concerto in
2-channel SACD on this vs the same recording in CD on my regular Sony CD
player circa 1991 or so. The immediate difference was due to mismatched
levels. After adjusting for that, I could not tell the two apart,
without doing more careful controlled comparisons. They sound the same,
as far as I can tell. Which is really what I had expected.

Now I also have Perahia playing Bach in SACD, and I really enjoy that
piece on the Pioneer. That's because it is a multi-channel performance,
and therefore sounds quite different than the CD version.

In article ,
(Farrell8882) wrote:

From: "Harry Lavo"

Another well-regarded, inexpensive DVD player is the Pioneer 563, which
plays both SACD and DVD-Audio high-res disks as well as CD's and
conventional DVD-V's. I haven't heard it, so can't say much else other than
that it has gotten good audiophile "buzz" and a good write-up in the latest
issue of Britain's "Hi Fi News".

Is anyone listening to this player, which sells for 179 at audio advisor?

I have one in the tv system. It works fine as a dvd player. I use it in
stereo mode. It's hard to evaluate the sound because I have only a few
DVD-A, the best of which is Richard Thompson "Rumor and Sigh".

I haven't tried it as a cd player because I have an Arcam CD23 in the
Quad system.

Stephen