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Fabio De Robertis
 
Posts: n/a
Default PS caps : electrolytics + polypropylene, interactions?

Hello,

this's the possible configuration in my DAC's PS :


10000uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic

IN PARALLEL WITH

4700uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic

IN PARALLEL WITH

0.1uF 400V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap

IN PARALLEL WITH

2.2uF 100V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


I thought to place them together, all in parallel just after the
diodes.

- Are unwanted interactions between the two electrlytics and the two
Polyprops possible?

- Is the HOVLAND MusiCap right for such PS application?

- Is coupling the 0.1uF MusiCap with the 2.2uF one anyway useful?

Thank you very much,
Fabio
  #2   Report Post  
Peter Larsen
 
Posts: n/a
Default PS caps : electrolytics + polypropylene, interactions?

Fabio De Robertis wrote:

Hello,

this's the possible configuration in my DAC's PS :

10000uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic

IN PARALLEL WITH

4700uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic


For what virtue?

IN PARALLEL WITH

0.1uF 400V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


IN PARALLEL WITH

2.2uF 100V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


Something hf (rf) bypassing is relevant yes, to my knowledge 1 uF makes
sense and it ought to be uncritical. My knowledge is incomplete.

I thought to place them together, all in parallel just after the
diodes.


- Are unwanted interactions between the two electrlytics and the two
Polyprops possible?


Too complicated, one big and one small, say 1 uF, and perhaps a tiny
ceramic.

- Is the HOVLAND MusiCap right for such PS application?


- Is coupling the 0.1uF MusiCap with the 2.2uF one anyway useful?


That's only "one digit" smaller, 3 or 4 digits smaller makes more sense,
capacitors do have a bandwidth, but it is not *that* narrow.

Thank you very much,
Fabio


--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********
  #3   Report Post  
Peter Larsen
 
Posts: n/a
Default PS caps : electrolytics + polypropylene, interactions?

Fabio De Robertis wrote:

Hello,

this's the possible configuration in my DAC's PS :

10000uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic

IN PARALLEL WITH

4700uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic


For what virtue?

IN PARALLEL WITH

0.1uF 400V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


IN PARALLEL WITH

2.2uF 100V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


Something hf (rf) bypassing is relevant yes, to my knowledge 1 uF makes
sense and it ought to be uncritical. My knowledge is incomplete.

I thought to place them together, all in parallel just after the
diodes.


- Are unwanted interactions between the two electrlytics and the two
Polyprops possible?


Too complicated, one big and one small, say 1 uF, and perhaps a tiny
ceramic.

- Is the HOVLAND MusiCap right for such PS application?


- Is coupling the 0.1uF MusiCap with the 2.2uF one anyway useful?


That's only "one digit" smaller, 3 or 4 digits smaller makes more sense,
capacitors do have a bandwidth, but it is not *that* narrow.

Thank you very much,
Fabio


--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********
  #4   Report Post  
Peter Larsen
 
Posts: n/a
Default PS caps : electrolytics + polypropylene, interactions?

Fabio De Robertis wrote:

Hello,

this's the possible configuration in my DAC's PS :

10000uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic

IN PARALLEL WITH

4700uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic


For what virtue?

IN PARALLEL WITH

0.1uF 400V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


IN PARALLEL WITH

2.2uF 100V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


Something hf (rf) bypassing is relevant yes, to my knowledge 1 uF makes
sense and it ought to be uncritical. My knowledge is incomplete.

I thought to place them together, all in parallel just after the
diodes.


- Are unwanted interactions between the two electrlytics and the two
Polyprops possible?


Too complicated, one big and one small, say 1 uF, and perhaps a tiny
ceramic.

- Is the HOVLAND MusiCap right for such PS application?


- Is coupling the 0.1uF MusiCap with the 2.2uF one anyway useful?


That's only "one digit" smaller, 3 or 4 digits smaller makes more sense,
capacitors do have a bandwidth, but it is not *that* narrow.

Thank you very much,
Fabio


--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********
  #5   Report Post  
Fabio De Robertis
 
Posts: n/a
Default PS caps : electrolytics + polypropylene, interactions?

Hi Peter,

this's the possible configuration in my DAC's PS :

10000uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic

IN PARALLEL WITH

4700uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic


For what virtue?


Nothing, I just have 2 10000uF and 2 4700uF and I wanted to use them
in the power supply of my DAC. 14700uF should be slightly better than
10000uF, shouldn't they? I don't know of problems to parallel two
electrlytics of the same brand and type, am I wrong?

IN PARALLEL WITH

0.1uF 400V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


IN PARALLEL WITH

2.2uF 100V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


Something hf (rf) bypassing is relevant yes, to my knowledge 1 uF makes
sense and it ought to be uncritical. My knowledge is incomplete.


Let's say 1 2.2uF + 1 0.1uF average ~1uF ;-)
I'm joking, I simply wanted to know that such a configuration wouldn't
lead to unwanted interactions between electrlytics and polyprops and
between the two polyprops

I thought to place them together, all in parallel just after the
diodes.


- Are unwanted interactions between the two electrlytics and the two
Polyprops possible?


Too complicated, one big and one small, say 1 uF, and perhaps a tiny
ceramic.


Yes I have some 100K ceramics to add to the mix, I forgot them!

- Is the HOVLAND MusiCap right for such PS application?


- Is coupling the 0.1uF MusiCap with the 2.2uF one anyway useful?


That's only "one digit" smaller, 3 or 4 digits smaller makes more sense,
capacitors do have a bandwidth, but it is not *that* narrow.


Thank you for the explanation!

Fabio


  #6   Report Post  
Fabio De Robertis
 
Posts: n/a
Default PS caps : electrolytics + polypropylene, interactions?

Hi Peter,

this's the possible configuration in my DAC's PS :

10000uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic

IN PARALLEL WITH

4700uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic


For what virtue?


Nothing, I just have 2 10000uF and 2 4700uF and I wanted to use them
in the power supply of my DAC. 14700uF should be slightly better than
10000uF, shouldn't they? I don't know of problems to parallel two
electrlytics of the same brand and type, am I wrong?

IN PARALLEL WITH

0.1uF 400V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


IN PARALLEL WITH

2.2uF 100V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


Something hf (rf) bypassing is relevant yes, to my knowledge 1 uF makes
sense and it ought to be uncritical. My knowledge is incomplete.


Let's say 1 2.2uF + 1 0.1uF average ~1uF ;-)
I'm joking, I simply wanted to know that such a configuration wouldn't
lead to unwanted interactions between electrlytics and polyprops and
between the two polyprops

I thought to place them together, all in parallel just after the
diodes.


- Are unwanted interactions between the two electrlytics and the two
Polyprops possible?


Too complicated, one big and one small, say 1 uF, and perhaps a tiny
ceramic.


Yes I have some 100K ceramics to add to the mix, I forgot them!

- Is the HOVLAND MusiCap right for such PS application?


- Is coupling the 0.1uF MusiCap with the 2.2uF one anyway useful?


That's only "one digit" smaller, 3 or 4 digits smaller makes more sense,
capacitors do have a bandwidth, but it is not *that* narrow.


Thank you for the explanation!

Fabio
  #7   Report Post  
Fabio De Robertis
 
Posts: n/a
Default PS caps : electrolytics + polypropylene, interactions?

Hi Peter,

this's the possible configuration in my DAC's PS :

10000uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic

IN PARALLEL WITH

4700uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic


For what virtue?


Nothing, I just have 2 10000uF and 2 4700uF and I wanted to use them
in the power supply of my DAC. 14700uF should be slightly better than
10000uF, shouldn't they? I don't know of problems to parallel two
electrlytics of the same brand and type, am I wrong?

IN PARALLEL WITH

0.1uF 400V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


IN PARALLEL WITH

2.2uF 100V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


Something hf (rf) bypassing is relevant yes, to my knowledge 1 uF makes
sense and it ought to be uncritical. My knowledge is incomplete.


Let's say 1 2.2uF + 1 0.1uF average ~1uF ;-)
I'm joking, I simply wanted to know that such a configuration wouldn't
lead to unwanted interactions between electrlytics and polyprops and
between the two polyprops

I thought to place them together, all in parallel just after the
diodes.


- Are unwanted interactions between the two electrlytics and the two
Polyprops possible?


Too complicated, one big and one small, say 1 uF, and perhaps a tiny
ceramic.


Yes I have some 100K ceramics to add to the mix, I forgot them!

- Is the HOVLAND MusiCap right for such PS application?


- Is coupling the 0.1uF MusiCap with the 2.2uF one anyway useful?


That's only "one digit" smaller, 3 or 4 digits smaller makes more sense,
capacitors do have a bandwidth, but it is not *that* narrow.


Thank you for the explanation!

Fabio
  #8   Report Post  
Fabio De Robertis
 
Posts: n/a
Default PS caps : electrolytics + polypropylene, interactions?

Hi,

about electrlytics and polypros I found an old article of
rec.audio.high-end dated 1993 where Dirk Wright wrote :

"Generally, making parallel combinations of different types of
capacitors can
help, but you can easily run into instablity due to parasitic
inductances.
Polyprops have more inductance than ceramics, so they can look like an
open
circuit at high frquencies. In the Linear Technology Handbook, they
found a
simple combination of an electrolytic and ceramic to be a good
comprimise.
Combinations of electrolytics and polyprops lead to ringing and
oscillation
in thier tests."

Can anyone confirm? If so, the ELNA Cerfaine electrlytics + the
HOVLAND Musicaps polyprops in my configuration are not good.

Thank you in advance,
Fabio



this's the possible configuration in my DAC's PS :

10000uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic

IN PARALLEL WITH

4700uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic


For what virtue?


Nothing, I just have 2 10000uF and 2 4700uF and I wanted to use them
in the power supply of my DAC. 14700uF should be slightly better than
10000uF, shouldn't they? I don't know of problems to parallel two
electrlytics of the same brand and type, am I wrong?

IN PARALLEL WITH

0.1uF 400V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


IN PARALLEL WITH

2.2uF 100V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


Something hf (rf) bypassing is relevant yes, to my knowledge 1 uF makes
sense and it ought to be uncritical. My knowledge is incomplete.


Let's say 1 2.2uF + 1 0.1uF average ~1uF ;-)
I'm joking, I simply wanted to know that such a configuration wouldn't
lead to unwanted interactions between electrlytics and polyprops and
between the two polyprops

I thought to place them together, all in parallel just after the
diodes.


- Are unwanted interactions between the two electrlytics and the two
Polyprops possible?


Too complicated, one big and one small, say 1 uF, and perhaps a tiny
ceramic.


Yes I have some 100K ceramics to add to the mix, I forgot them!

- Is the HOVLAND MusiCap right for such PS application?


- Is coupling the 0.1uF MusiCap with the 2.2uF one anyway useful?


That's only "one digit" smaller, 3 or 4 digits smaller makes more sense,
capacitors do have a bandwidth, but it is not *that* narrow.


Thank you for the explanation!

Fabio

  #9   Report Post  
Fabio De Robertis
 
Posts: n/a
Default PS caps : electrolytics + polypropylene, interactions?

Hi,

about electrlytics and polypros I found an old article of
rec.audio.high-end dated 1993 where Dirk Wright wrote :

"Generally, making parallel combinations of different types of
capacitors can
help, but you can easily run into instablity due to parasitic
inductances.
Polyprops have more inductance than ceramics, so they can look like an
open
circuit at high frquencies. In the Linear Technology Handbook, they
found a
simple combination of an electrolytic and ceramic to be a good
comprimise.
Combinations of electrolytics and polyprops lead to ringing and
oscillation
in thier tests."

Can anyone confirm? If so, the ELNA Cerfaine electrlytics + the
HOVLAND Musicaps polyprops in my configuration are not good.

Thank you in advance,
Fabio



this's the possible configuration in my DAC's PS :

10000uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic

IN PARALLEL WITH

4700uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic


For what virtue?


Nothing, I just have 2 10000uF and 2 4700uF and I wanted to use them
in the power supply of my DAC. 14700uF should be slightly better than
10000uF, shouldn't they? I don't know of problems to parallel two
electrlytics of the same brand and type, am I wrong?

IN PARALLEL WITH

0.1uF 400V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


IN PARALLEL WITH

2.2uF 100V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


Something hf (rf) bypassing is relevant yes, to my knowledge 1 uF makes
sense and it ought to be uncritical. My knowledge is incomplete.


Let's say 1 2.2uF + 1 0.1uF average ~1uF ;-)
I'm joking, I simply wanted to know that such a configuration wouldn't
lead to unwanted interactions between electrlytics and polyprops and
between the two polyprops

I thought to place them together, all in parallel just after the
diodes.


- Are unwanted interactions between the two electrlytics and the two
Polyprops possible?


Too complicated, one big and one small, say 1 uF, and perhaps a tiny
ceramic.


Yes I have some 100K ceramics to add to the mix, I forgot them!

- Is the HOVLAND MusiCap right for such PS application?


- Is coupling the 0.1uF MusiCap with the 2.2uF one anyway useful?


That's only "one digit" smaller, 3 or 4 digits smaller makes more sense,
capacitors do have a bandwidth, but it is not *that* narrow.


Thank you for the explanation!

Fabio

  #10   Report Post  
Fabio De Robertis
 
Posts: n/a
Default PS caps : electrolytics + polypropylene, interactions?

Hi,

about electrlytics and polypros I found an old article of
rec.audio.high-end dated 1993 where Dirk Wright wrote :

"Generally, making parallel combinations of different types of
capacitors can
help, but you can easily run into instablity due to parasitic
inductances.
Polyprops have more inductance than ceramics, so they can look like an
open
circuit at high frquencies. In the Linear Technology Handbook, they
found a
simple combination of an electrolytic and ceramic to be a good
comprimise.
Combinations of electrolytics and polyprops lead to ringing and
oscillation
in thier tests."

Can anyone confirm? If so, the ELNA Cerfaine electrlytics + the
HOVLAND Musicaps polyprops in my configuration are not good.

Thank you in advance,
Fabio



this's the possible configuration in my DAC's PS :

10000uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic

IN PARALLEL WITH

4700uF 50V ELNA Cerafine Electrolytic


For what virtue?


Nothing, I just have 2 10000uF and 2 4700uF and I wanted to use them
in the power supply of my DAC. 14700uF should be slightly better than
10000uF, shouldn't they? I don't know of problems to parallel two
electrlytics of the same brand and type, am I wrong?

IN PARALLEL WITH

0.1uF 400V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


IN PARALLEL WITH

2.2uF 100V HOVLAND MusiCap Film & Aluminum Foil Polypropylene cap


Something hf (rf) bypassing is relevant yes, to my knowledge 1 uF makes
sense and it ought to be uncritical. My knowledge is incomplete.


Let's say 1 2.2uF + 1 0.1uF average ~1uF ;-)
I'm joking, I simply wanted to know that such a configuration wouldn't
lead to unwanted interactions between electrlytics and polyprops and
between the two polyprops

I thought to place them together, all in parallel just after the
diodes.


- Are unwanted interactions between the two electrlytics and the two
Polyprops possible?


Too complicated, one big and one small, say 1 uF, and perhaps a tiny
ceramic.


Yes I have some 100K ceramics to add to the mix, I forgot them!

- Is the HOVLAND MusiCap right for such PS application?


- Is coupling the 0.1uF MusiCap with the 2.2uF one anyway useful?


That's only "one digit" smaller, 3 or 4 digits smaller makes more sense,
capacitors do have a bandwidth, but it is not *that* narrow.


Thank you for the explanation!

Fabio

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