[LAB]

What do you think about Rode S1? Its price for a new one here (220 ‚¬) is
less than a the half of a Neumann KSM 105 (490 ‚¬). Frequency response seems
to be very similar. Someone says S1 has less feedback problems. For similar
prices or if I could get a used KSM 105 for 250‚¬ I'd have no doubts...

--
Gianluca

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , LAB wrote:
What do you think about Rode S1? Its price for a new one here (220 ‚¬) is
less than a the half of a Neumann KSM 105 (490 ‚¬). Frequency response seems
to be very similar. Someone says S1 has less feedback problems. For similar
prices or if I could get a used KSM 105 for 250‚¬ I'd have no doubts...

They are totally different sounding microphones. What kind of vocalist are
you working with?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[LAB]

They are totally different sounding microphones. What kind of
vocalist are you working with?

Can you describe the difference? I've found several tests & recordings
with the KMS 105 also on youtube, but nothing about the S1. Does people not
like the S1?

--
Gianluca

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , LAB wrote:
They are totally different sounding microphones. What kind of
vocalist are you working with?

Can you describe the difference? I've found several tests & recordings
with the KMS 105 also on youtube, but nothing about the S1. Does people not
like the S1?

The S1 is fine for people who sound good with the S1. It pops a lot more
easily than the KMS105. The KMS105 has a huge peaky and exaggerated top end
that makes it sound much like a U87 on-axis. That's good for people who
sound good on a U87, but sometimes it can be thin or screechy for other
people. The S1 is still pretty bright but less so than the KMS105, and
more nasal. Neither one is a neutral-sounding vocal mike. Both can be
good on the right vocalists and terrible on the wrong ones.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[LAB]

The S1 is fine for people who sound good with the S1. It pops a lot
more easily than the KMS105.
The KMS105 has a huge peaky and exaggerated top end that makes it
sound much like a U87 on-axis. That's good for people who sound good on a
U87, but sometimes it can be thin or screechy for other people.
The S1 is still pretty bright but less so than the KMS105, and more
nasal.

Do you know where can I find a recording test of the S1 on the net? It
could be a simple home recording of voice and/or singing.
I'm about to buy a used S1 for 130‚¬, a good price if it is in very good
conditions. I'm waiting for pictures from the seller. I'm buying and trying
many mics everytime I find them for a good price: Shure SM58, SM94, Beyer
TG-X58, Rode M1, Sennheiser E835, MD431, MD421 (and the old MD21!), Sony
stereo ECM-MS907, ECM-MS957 (i don't like it!)

I have built a mic with a SM94 condenser (electret) capsule I had,
mounted in a "chinese" mic body with a SM58 replacement grille. I have
copied and modified the SM94 electronics for a nearfield singer use. It has
very, very low pop sensitivity and handling noise.

--
Gianluca

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/11/2011 11:55 AM, LAB wrote:

Do you know where can I find a recording test of the S1 on
the net? It could be a simple home recording of voice and/or
singing.

You don't seem to get what Scott's telling you. You really
don't know what the singer in such a demo recording sounds
like so you won't know if the mic is making him or her sound
good or sound bad.

Are you looking for a mic for yourself, or a general purpose
mic that you can use on whatever comes along? If you're
looking for yourself or a singer with whom you regularly
work, you should do whatever you have to in order to get one
to try. Either one is expensive enough so that a reputable
dealer should let you try it before making a decision. It's
the only way.

If you're looking for a general-use mic, you should still
try it, only try it on various singers and decide how useful
it will really be.




--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[LAB]

Last night I've done some test recording with my microphones. As I say
in the recording I like some of them, but I'd like to find a live condenser
microphone with:

a slightly colored response
proximity compensation for near flat LF response (and low proximity
effect?)
no typical 150Hz proximity emphasis
an open, clear, no sibilant sound (12kHz emphasis...)

Does Rode S1 and/or Neumann KMS 105 have that characteristics?

Here is a link to my test recording:
http://www.mediafire.com/?99tq049l5v5ik4o

--
Gianluca

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/12/2011 4:29 AM, LAB wrote:

but I'd like to find a live condenser microphone with:
a slightly colored response

What color?

Have you considered an EV RE-20? It's not a condenser mic,
and it's not a hand-held mic, but it meets all of your other
requirements, if you consider that every mic is "colored" to
some extent.

You're fighting the obvious - get one of the mics you're
considering for a trial. Is this a problem? Are you sure?


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[LAB]

So you want color and no color?

"Slightly colored response", only a bit. What is the correct sentence?

--
Gianluca

[Scott Dorsey]

In article , LAB wrote:
Last night I've done some test recording with my microphones. As I say
in the recording I like some of them, but I'd like to find a live condenser
microphone with:

a slightly colored response

They all are that way.

proximity compensation for near flat LF response (and low proximity
effect?)
no typical 150Hz proximity emphasis

You can deal with that with console EQ.

Proximity effect and narrow pattern go hand in hand. You want tight pattern,
you get proximity boost, and vice-versa. The ONLY way around that is by
using a variable-D mike like an RE-20 or an RE-16.

an open, clear, no sibilant sound (12kHz emphasis...)

Does Rode S1 and/or Neumann KMS 105 have that characteristics?

No, they both have massive top end boost. The whole point of the KMS105 is
the huge and peaky top end. It makes for an airy sound on some vocalists.
On others it exaggerates lip smack and tonsil noise.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

LAB wrote:
Last night I've done some test recording with my microphones. As I say
in the recording I like some of them, but I'd like to find a live
condenser microphone with:

a slightly colored response
proximity compensation for near flat LF response (and low proximity
effect?)
no typical 150Hz proximity emphasis
an open, clear, no sibilant sound (12kHz emphasis...)

Does Rode S1 and/or Neumann KMS 105 have that characteristics?

Here is a link to my test recording:
http://www.mediafire.com/?99tq049l5v5ik4o



So you want color and no color? (No offense - this is how we
figure out perceived contradictions in requests ).

If you're committed to condensers, then the way to get rid of proximity
effects is with an omni. Generally they're called "measurement mics".
Beyer has one, Behringer has one, Audix has one. I've only used
the Behringers.

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

LAB wrote:
So you want color and no color?

"Slightly colored response", only a bit. What is the correct sentence?



I'm not sure

--
Les Cargill

[LAB]

I'm not Sure

I'm not Senneiser (without "h"!)

--
Gianluca

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

Les Cargill wrote:
LAB wrote:
Last night I've done some test recording with my microphones. As I
say in the recording I like some of them, but I'd like to find a live
condenser microphone with:

a slightly colored response
proximity compensation for near flat LF response (and low proximity
effect?)
no typical 150Hz proximity emphasis
an open, clear, no sibilant sound (12kHz emphasis...)

Does Rode S1 and/or Neumann KMS 105 have that characteristics?

Here is a link to my test recording:
http://www.mediafire.com/?99tq049l5v5ik4o


So you want color and no color? (No offense - this is how we
figure out perceived contradictions in requests ).

If you're committed to condensers, then the way to get rid of proximity
effects is with an omni. Generally they're called "measurement mics".
Beyer has one, Behringer has one, Audix has one. I've only used
the Behringers.

The EV 635A omni has a response tailored for voice. I've used them on all
kinds of singers with excellent results. I've also used one with a stage
monitor. I dialed the monitor up to feedback and back down by 6 dB. When
the vocalist arrived for a sound check, he asked me to turn it down some
more! Omnis don't have unpredictable response lobes that can exacerbate
feedback problems.

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Trevor]

"Roy W. Rising" wrote in message
...
I dialed the monitor up to feedback and back down by 6 dB. When
the vocalist arrived for a sound check, he asked me to turn it down some
more!

That was very fortunate, many singers still want more after you've got
feedback and already notched and compressed the hell out it! :-(
IEM's are the only answer for some.

Trevor.

[Scott Dorsey]

Roy W. Rising wrote:
The EV 635A omni has a response tailored for voice. I've used them on all
kinds of singers with excellent results. I've also used one with a stage
monitor. I dialed the monitor up to feedback and back down by 6 dB. When
the vocalist arrived for a sound check, he asked me to turn it down some
more! Omnis don't have unpredictable response lobes that can exacerbate
feedback problems.

You know, I am always surprised by the 635A. It works better than you'd
ever expect for such a huge variety of things.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/13/2011 6:33 AM, LAB wrote:
EV 635A
They have had to work hard to make a so ugly... But it could be a
fashion of those years.

The 635 ugly? It's small and a clean design. What do you think a mic
should look like? A U87?


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/13/2011 6:36 AM, LAB wrote:
Omnis don't have unpredictable response lobes that can exacerbate
feedback problems

Surely you don't have to worry about how the singer rotates the microphone!

No, but you might worry about a singer who sometimes sings straight
along the axis of the shaft, and then moves it vertical and sings across
the top, 90 degrees off axis. Try that with your SM58.

Also, having smooth and decent sounding response off axis means that
leakage into the mic from other sources won't sound bad.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 7/13/2011 6:36 AM, LAB wrote:
Omnis don't have unpredictable response lobes that can exacerbate
feedback problems

Surely you don't have to worry about how the singer rotates the microphone!

No, but you might worry about a singer who sometimes sings straight
along the axis of the shaft, and then moves it vertical and sings across
the top, 90 degrees off axis. Try that with your SM58.

At the East Coast Jazz Festival, I had a woman whom I'd never worked with
before, who had a very breathy alto. It sounded like the KMS105 would be
a great choice. Then she pointed it at her navel... and with the tight
pattern on the KMS105 you can do a lot of things but one of the things that
you cannot do is point it at your navel.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[LAB]

The 635 ugly? It's small and a clean design. What do you think a mic
should look like? A U87?

Simply... I don't like that shape! (but it's my personal opinion for my
taste)

http://www.axemusic.com/Pictures/ev_635a_mic.jpg

--
Gianluca

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 11, 2011 at 7:58:14 AM UTC-7, LAB wrote:
What do you think about Rode S1? Its price for a new one here (220 ‚¬) is
less than a the half of a Neumann KSM 105 (490 ‚¬). Frequency response seems
to be very similar. Someone says S1 has less feedback problems. For similar
prices or if I could get a used KSM 105 for 250‚¬ I'd have no doubts...

--
Gianluca

Always buy THE best mic you can afford! Test sing 'em and pop for what you can afford. I own a KMS105, and it is hands down THE best mic for my voice, that any dynamic, condenser and live condenser. I track with it and it's plain insane!! It beats everything in my cabinet, period. LOVE it!!!

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 11, 2011 at 7:58:14 AM UTC-7, LAB wrote:
What do you think about Rode S1? Its price for a new one here (220 ‚¬) is
less than a the half of a Neumann KSM 105 (490 ‚¬). Frequency response seems
to be very similar. Someone says S1 has less feedback problems. For similar
prices or if I could get a used KSM 105 for 250‚¬ I'd have no doubts...

--
Gianluca

In short, is the mic enabling or not? I Have 635's 58's 57's other cheaper so called live condensers, but I've never had a mic so enabling as the 105. Having said that, I have NOT tried the Rode S1, couldn't find it locally. It's on my list though..

[geoff]

On 8/12/2016 4:49 PM, wrote:
On Monday, July 11, 2011 at 7:58:14 AM UTC-7, LAB wrote:
What do you think about Rode S1? Its price for a new one here (220 ‚¬) is
less than a the half of a Neumann KSM 105 (490 ‚¬). Frequency response seems
to be very similar. Someone says S1 has less feedback problems. For similar
prices or if I could get a used KSM 105 for 250‚¬ I'd have no doubts...

--
Gianluca

In short, is the mic enabling or not? I Have 635's 58's 57's other cheaper so called live condensers, but I've never had a mic so enabling as the 105. Having said that, I have NOT tried the Rode S1, couldn't find it locally. It's on my list though..


Haven't got or played with KSM105, Have have and like the S1. But my
fave is C535B. Bonus is that they are just as useful for purposes other
than vocals - maybe that subconciously sways me.

geoff

[John Williamson]

Snip discussion of 5 year old postr

Is this conversation still valid 5 years after the original question was
asked and answered?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[geoff]

On 8/12/2016 10:22 PM, John Williamson wrote:
Snip discussion of 5 year old postr

Is this conversation still valid 5 years after the original question was
asked and answered?



Are those mics still available ?

Did Gianluca feel inspired enough to post a reply ?

Would anybody benefit from that info now, or from something new that
could possibly be added ?

geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:

Always buy THE best mic you can afford! Test sing 'em and pop for what you =
can afford. I own a KMS105, and it is hands down THE best mic for my voice,=
that any dynamic, condenser and live condenser. I track with it and it's =
plain insane!! It beats everything in my cabinet, period. LOVE it!!!

Absolutely. The problem is that the best mike for one voice is likely not
the best mike for another voice. And the best mike for one voice in one mix
might not be the right one for the same voice in another mix. It's that kind
of world.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

geoff wrote:

Haven't got or played with KSM105, Have have and like the S1. But my
fave is C535B. Bonus is that they are just as useful for purposes other
than vocals - maybe that subconciously sways me.

KMS105 is brighter on top and really, really forward sounding. It will pull
anything to the front of the mix more dramatically than a C535. This can be
wonderful and horrible depending.

The peaked up top will also exaggerate tonsil noise and lip noise for singers
who have issues with those. But it will also do some marvelous stuff to a
gravelly baritone.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Trevor]

On 8/12/2016 9:35 PM, geoff wrote:
On 8/12/2016 10:22 PM, John Williamson wrote:
Snip discussion of 5 year old postr

Is this conversation still valid 5 years after the original question was
asked and answered?

Are those mics still available ?

Yep.

[PStamler]

One major change: Shure has introduced the KSM9, designed for vocals and priced to compete with the KMS 105. When I reviewed the KSM9, I found that its batting average on vocalists was better than most mics'. It's not as glarey as the KMS 105, and I found it performed well with many more vocalists.

Peace,
Paul

[geoff]

On 10/12/2016 8:34 AM, PStamler wrote:
One major change: Shure has introduced the KSM9, designed for vocals and priced to compete with the KMS 105. When I reviewed the KSM9, I found that its batting average on vocalists was better than most mics'. It's not as glarey as the KMS 105, and I found it performed well with many more vocalists.

Peace,
Paul



Is the KMS-105 glaey in the same way a TLM-103 can be ?

geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

geoff wrote:
On 10/12/2016 8:34 AM, PStamler wrote:
One major change: Shure has introduced the KSM9, designed for vocals and priced to compete with the KMS 105. When I reviewed the KSM9, I found that its batting average on vocalists was better than most mics'. It's not as glarey as the KMS 105, and I found it performed well with many more vocalists.

Is the KMS-105 glaey in the same way a TLM-103 can be ?

Yes, and the U87 too. That glare is sometimes useful.
Not so much on sopranos, though.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."