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#1
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Best recharable AA batts
I just purchased a Sony d-33 discman and it has been quite sometime since
I have looked into rechargable AA batteries. Any advice on which are the best. Thanks in advance |
#2
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Ansmann makes some great rechargables - 2600 mah AA. You should try some of
their 250mah 9v's. https://www.horizonbattery.com/itemD...m?sku=,ANS2600 Max Arwood wrote in message k.net... I just purchased a Sony d-33 discman and it has been quite sometime since I have looked into rechargable AA batteries. Any advice on which are the best. Thanks in advance |
#3
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I've had good results with almost any brand of rechargeable AA's made for
digital cameras - Nickel Metal Hydrides (NiMH). About $10 for 4 at WalMart - about $20 with charger. Use only NiMH charger. Mikey Nova Music Productions "Max Arwood" wrote in message . .. Ansmann makes some great rechargables - 2600 mah AA. You should try some of their 250mah 9v's. https://www.horizonbattery.com/itemD...m?sku=,ANS2600 Max Arwood wrote in message k.net... I just purchased a Sony d-33 discman and it has been quite sometime since I have looked into rechargable AA batteries. Any advice on which are the best. Thanks in advance |
#4
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In article ,
"Max Arwood" wrote: Ansmann makes some great rechargables - 2600 mah AA. You should try some of their 250mah 9v's. https://www.horizonbattery.com/itemD...m?sku=,ANS2600 Max Arwood wrote in message k.net... I just purchased a Sony d-33 discman and it has been quite sometime since I have looked into rechargable AA batteries. Any advice on which are the best. Thanks in advance Contrary to the capacity indication, my Kodak NiMH batteries (2300 mAh) (made in Japan) are outperforming Ansmanns (2400 mAh) in my MP3-recorder every time - and I can get them cheaper over here in Switzerland (some 15 USD equivalent for 4 AA) HTH Marc -- Switzerland/Europe http://www.heusser.com remove CHEERS and from MERCIAL to get valid e-mail |
#5
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I've had good results with almost any brand of rechargeable AAs made for
digital cameras -- nickel-metal hydrides (NiMH). About $10 for 4 at WalMart -- about $20 with charger. Use only NiMH charger. You can use a regular NiCad charger -- it just takes longer. I have 1800 mAh AA cells I got for 50 cents each (!!!) that I recharge on a 35-year-old GE Charge8 recharger. Works fine. |
#7
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And if anyone cares to comment....
1)anyone using the 15 minute rechargeables? Is it really possible? 2)Is there a useable 9v out yet? One that can run a guitar pedal? Rob R. |
#8
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1)anyone using the 15 minute rechargeables? Is it really possible?
They get hot as hell, and I can't imagine they have a long life. Running a battery immediately after a hard charge is never a good idea anyway. 2)Is there a useable 9v out yet? One that can run a guitar pedal? Usable? shrug A quick google yields this: http://www.thomas-distributing.com/9..._batteries.htm -John O |
#9
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Rob Reedijk wrote:
1)anyone using the 15 minute rechargeables? Is it really possible? Some of the manufacturers have websites where they've posted what amount to scientific papers explaining the fast-recharge process. Even a 1-hour fast charge makes for "I'm not sure I wanted to know that" reading. (NiMH cells, as I understand it from those documents, contain two different chemistries. One gives off oxygen as it discharges, the other consumes it; charging pushes the oxygen back the other way. Fast charging actually involves letting the battery develop positive pressure so the oxygen migrates from one to the other more rapidly. Very fast charging -- under an hour -- requires monitoring what's happening inside the battery; the half-hour chargers seem to do so via thermal measurements, while the 15-minute chargers I've seen require specific batteries that carry sensors inside them.) Fast charging *is* rougher on battteries, but is supposed to be "acceptable" -- you lose some of the battery's lifetime in exchange for the convenience, but not unreasonable amounts thereof. The alternative is buy more batteries and be more careful about keeping enough of 'em charged. I own both fast and slow chargers, and when I'm not in a rush I try to limit myself to the slow charge. Re the original question: Note that "best" depends on your application. NiMHs are good for devices which have fairly heavy draw, such as digital cameras; they aren't as good for things that draw only a trickle of current but want to do so for a long time. Also, like most rechargables, they're typically 1.2V per cell rather than 1.5; some devices won't like that lower voltage. (This is also why you don't see as many rechargable 9V's; their actual voltage for six cells cells would be 7.2V, and I'm not sure they can squeeze in a seventh cell to bring it up to 8.6.) Some of the other technologies may work better in other devices. |
#10
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Joe Kesselman wrote in
: snipAlso, like most rechargables, they're typically 1.2V per cell rather than 1.5; some devices won't like that lower voltage. (This is also why you don't see as many rechargable 9V's; their actual voltage for six cells cells would be 7.2V, and I'm not sure they can squeeze in a seventh cell to bring it up to 8.6.) Whether NiMH (or even NiCd) voltage is higher or lower than Alkaline per cell depends on both the state of charge and the discharge rate. As NiMH have substantially lower internal impedance than alkaline (and NiCd quite substantially lower than NiMH), they actually provide higher voltage at very high discharge rates once even half the capacity is gone (this is why the digital camera folks with high drain rate during picture taking find even modest capacity NiMH to give them more pictures than Alkaline--by huge margins at the highest drain rates). People actually do sell 9V NiMH with differing cell count, though the labelling can be pretty confusing (right now, the higher cell counts ones seem usually to get described as "9.6V", while the ones with one less cell describe themselves as 9 or 9.2--these are _not_ comparable numbers. If your application has relatively low draw rate, and may need nearly the full voltage of a half-discharged Alkaline 9v, then you want the higher-voltage lower-capacity model (though your are still stuck with self-discharge times likely to be in the couple of month range when new, likely deteriorating a bit with use). As to sources, lots of folks have been buying NiMH from Thomas Distributing for years. Here is their 9v NiMH page: http://thomas-distributing.com/9v_nimh_batteries.htm For lower prices but a much less established reputation (and much narrower selection), I've had good luck with Amondotech. As of today, their 9V NiMH page is: http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?...S&Category=266 I've recently bought their Titanium (brand) "9.6V" 180 maHr battery. I charged it a week ago. Sitting unused since, it reads 10.3 V open circuit today. For comparison, an unused (but several year old) Duracell Alkaline 9V reads 9.3V open circuit on the same meter. Amondotech offers quite good prices on AA NiMH. If you are a maximum capacity freak, their 2400 mAHr "Titanium brand are currently $2.30. But if you back off a bit in capacity to 1800 mAHr they are just $1.35, with several other gradations. For a non-mobile application charger, I've really like the Vanson BC-1HU, sold by Amondotech for $24.95. It handles 4 batteries in any mix of AAA, AA, C and D, and separates the batteries enough that the AA's don't get nearly so hot as they do in comparable rate chargers in the tinier form factors. Several hour charging times are prudent--I've done visible damage to three brands of AA NiMH in a 1-hour Everready charger, as the surface temperature at termination wrinkled, split, or otherwise damage the surface coating. One other thing to watch out for--fresh NiMH batteries brand new out of the box may not give full capacity up to the first five cycles. They also may behave oddly in a way which may fool "smart" termination circuits of the sorts found in all fast chargers. So cycle them a few times before using them, and watch them to assure your charger does not cook them or quit after less than 10% of a full charge. Good luck--I'm a commited heavy NiMH user for some years now. Peter A. Stoll |
#11
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Thanks to all of you for great advice.
One more question about 9v. Anyone used good 9v rechagealbes in guitar stomp boxes? Any sound coloration? (sp) In article t, says... I just purchased a Sony d-33 discman and it has been quite sometime since I have looked into rechargable AA batteries. Any advice on which are the best. Thanks in advance |
#12
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One more question about 9v. Anyone used good 9v rechagealbes in guitar
stomp boxes? Any sound coloration? (sp) You shouldn't get "coloration". Either the voltage is enough to run the box or it isn't, and either the discharge curve is enough to run the box for an adequate length of time or it isn't... |
#13
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#14
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wrote:
In article , keshlam- says... One more question about 9v. Anyone used good 9v rechagealbes in guitar stomp boxes? Any sound coloration? (sp) You shouldn't get "coloration". Either the voltage is enough to run the box or it isn't, and either the discharge curve is enough to run the box for an adequate length of time or it isn't... With some of my boxes I think the signal runs through the batts and it seems as though I can tell a diff in sound. Could be my EJ syndrome. This is basically because a lot of stomp boxes not only have no regulation, but actually have no supply decoupling to speak of. So the series resistance of the battery becomes a big deal. In pretty much every case, a NiCd battery will have less voltage drop under load than an alkaline, which will have less than a carbon battery. But, there is actually a small underground market in old-style pre-heavy-duty carbon-zinc batteries, because people like the voltage sag in their stomp boxes. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#16
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In article t,
wrote: This may be why I seem to favor the sound of my boxes using old style carbon-zinc batts I can find in Italy for around a buck. I do like Kodak alkaline if they are the EU market ones. I guess I will start experimenting with some NiCd ones. If you like that, try sticking a 1 ohm resistor in series with the battery and see if that changes the sound of the alkaline more to your liking. You could even get a 10-ohm wirewound pot and adjust it to the point where it sounds best to you. Don't rely on the lousiness of batteries to get the sound for you. Take batteries off the shelf and make them lousy artificially, in a controlled manner. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#17
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#18
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But, there is actually a small underground market in old-style pre-heavy-duty
carbon-zinc batteries, because people like the voltage sag in their stomp boxes. Hm. Yeah, I can sorta see that. I agree with you that the right answer is to figure out how to produce the desired effect under better-controlled conditions. |
#19
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#20
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In article 38,
says... (Scott Dorsey) wrote in : In article t, wrote: This may be why I seem to favor the sound of my boxes using old style carbon-zinc batts I can find in Italy for around a buck. I do like Kodak alkaline if they are the EU market ones. I guess I will start experimenting with some NiCd ones. If you like that, try sticking a 1 ohm resistor in series with the battery and see if that changes the sound of the alkaline more to your liking. You could even get a 10-ohm wirewound pot and adjust it to the point where it sounds best to you. Don't rely on the lousiness of batteries to get the sound for you. Take batteries off the shelf and make them lousy artificially, in a controlled manner. --scott Putting most of the impedance in an intentional resistor should greatly stabilize the effect over the course of using up the charge in the battery. Not only are carbon-zinc and alkaline batteries high-impedance to start, but this increases greatly as you run down the state of charge. If you take care to recharge often enough, a NiMH battery plus a resistor should give you a much more consistent effect. I love Scott's final paragraph--technically accurate, evocative, and poetic, all in a few words. Peter A. Stoll I can tell you all now that I most likely will try the tricks but will also most likely end up using a battery I "think" sounds good. I do this with cables, tubes, you name it. Even the weather makes a differance to me. That said, having a controlled setup that I like will always be good as a backup. |
#21
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#22
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Mike Rivers wrote: In article t writes: This may be why I seem to favor the sound of my boxes using old style carbon-zinc batts I can find in Italy for around a buck. Definitely EJ Syndrome. Over here you can't even get zinc-carbon batteries at Radio Shack any more. A few years ago, there was a company that makes effect pedals (can't remember who, but they're a big name) that showed a "Vintage battery" at NAMM one year. I don't think they ever actually sold it, though, and I hever heard anything about it after that one show. Different battery chemistries result in different supply impedance. No idea if this is enough to explain any difference in the sound of battery powered gear. Graham |
#23
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William Sommerwerck wrote: I've had good results with almost any brand of rechargeable AAs made for digital cameras -- nickel-metal hydrides (NiMH). About $10 for 4 at WalMart -- about $20 with charger. Use only NiMH charger. You can use a regular NiCad charger -- it just takes longer. I have 1800 mAh AA cells I got for 50 cents each (!!!) that I recharge on a 35-year-old GE Charge8 recharger. Works fine. You can *damage* an NiMH cell with a Nicad charger. The preferred charging profile(s) for NimH are different to NiCd. Graham |
#24
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Joe Kesselman writes:
But, there is actually a small underground market in old-style pre-heavy-duty carbon-zinc batteries, because people like the voltage sag in their stomp boxes. Hm. Yeah, I can sorta see that. I agree with you that the right answer is to figure out how to produce the desired effect under better-controlled conditions. The Voodoo Labs PedalPower II has an adjustment to simulate the voltage sag. If you are running multiple pedals, you might want to consider using a power-supply like the Voodoo Lab, or one of the others on the market. For 1 or 2 pedals it may be overkill though. |
#25
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Pooh Bear writes:
Mike Rivers wrote: In article t writes: This may be why I seem to favor the sound of my boxes using old style carbon-zinc batts I can find in Italy for around a buck. Definitely EJ Syndrome. Over here you can't even get zinc-carbon batteries at Radio Shack any more. A few years ago, there was a company that makes effect pedals (can't remember who, but they're a big name) that showed a "Vintage battery" at NAMM one year. I don't think they ever actually sold it, though, and I hever heard anything about it after that one show. Different battery chemistries result in different supply impedance. No idea if this is enough to explain any difference in the sound of battery powered gear. Graham The story I've heard is that the older pedals with germanium transisters DO sound different (some say "beter" wrt distortion and wahs) when using weaker batteries. I don't know if there's any scientific truth to this however. |
#26
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#27
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georgeh wrote:
Pooh Bear writes: Mike Rivers wrote: In article t writes: This may be why I seem to favor the sound of my boxes using old style carbon-zinc batts I can find in Italy for around a buck. Definitely EJ Syndrome. Over here you can't even get zinc-carbon batteries at Radio Shack any more. A few years ago, there was a company that makes effect pedals (can't remember who, but they're a big name) that showed a "Vintage battery" at NAMM one year. I don't think they ever actually sold it, though, and I hever heard anything about it after that one show. Different battery chemistries result in different supply impedance. No idea if this is enough to explain any difference in the sound of battery powered gear. Graham The story I've heard is that the older pedals with germanium transisters DO sound different (some say "beter" wrt distortion and wahs) when using weaker batteries. I don't know if there's any scientific truth to this however. It's possible that a reduced supply voltage ( and maybe germanium transistors contribute as well ) may result in clipping more softly e.g. like a valve amp. Graham |
#28
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You can use a regular NiCad charger -- it just takes longer. I have 1800
mAh AA cells I got for 50 cents each (!!!) that I recharge on a 35-year-old GE Charge8 recharger. Works fine. You can *damage* an NiMH cell with a nicad charger. The preferred charging profile(s) for NiMH are different to NiCd. How? The GE charger is neither "fast" nor "automatic". The charging rate (which I measured) is less than 5% of the cell's capacity. It's rather hard to damage a cell that way. I asked the "expert" at a battery retailer about this, and was told the only significant difference between nicad and NiMH cells is that the rise in voltage at the end of charge is different, both in magnitude and rate. |
#29
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In article ,
says... georgeh wrote: Pooh Bear writes: Mike Rivers wrote: In article t writes: This may be why I seem to favor the sound of my boxes using old style carbon-zinc batts I can find in Italy for around a buck. Definitely EJ Syndrome. Over here you can't even get zinc-carbon batteries at Radio Shack any more. A few years ago, there was a company that makes effect pedals (can't remember who, but they're a big name) that showed a "Vintage battery" at NAMM one year. I don't think they ever actually sold it, though, and I hever heard anything about it after that one show. Different battery chemistries result in different supply impedance. No idea if this is enough to explain any difference in the sound of battery powered gear. Graham The story I've heard is that the older pedals with germanium transisters DO sound different (some say "beter" wrt distortion and wahs) when using weaker batteries. I don't know if there's any scientific truth to this however. It's possible that a reduced supply voltage ( and maybe germanium transistors contribute as well ) may result in clipping more softly e.g. like a valve amp. Graham Whatever it is I am not the only musician who can hear the difference. I have even heard of double blind studies done on such things. Seems a few of us can tell or we at least guess right in the study. One thing I do know is a lot of players ask me how I get my tone which of course involves many things but every little part is important. BTW I really do appreciate all of the information you all have given. Thanks much. |
#30
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"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
: You can *damage* an NiMH cell with a nicad charger. The preferred charging profile(s) for NiMH are different to NiCd. How? The GE charger is neither "fast" nor "automatic". The charging rate (which I measured) is less than 5% of the cell's capacity. It's rather hard to damage a cell that way. I asked the "expert" at a battery retailer about this, and was told the only significant difference between nicad and NiMH cells is that the rise in voltage at the end of charge is different, both in magnitude and rate. I suspect you are both right--your (slow, dumb) charger won't hurt NiMH, but a (fast,smart) NiCd charger will get the termination condition wrong, exactly because the behavior at end of charge is different, and either overcharge/overheat, or undercharge. I've cooked a few NiMH cells impressively using a 1-hour NiMH charger which did not get the termination conditions right, possibly because the cells were very new. 2 amps at 1.6V makes a AA battery darn hot pretty fast once it is all getting thermally dissipated rather than doing electrochemistry. Peter A. Stoll |
#31
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I've cooked a few NiMH cells impressively using a 1-hour NiMH
charger which did not get the termination conditions right, possibly because the cells were very new. 2 amps at 1.6V makes a AA battery darn hot pretty fast once it is all getting thermally dissipated rather than doing electrochemistry. Exactly right. I pull the cells when they start getting warm. |
#32
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#33
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In article znr1123633336k@trad, says...
In article t writes: Whatever it is I am not the only musician who can hear the difference. I have even heard of double blind studies done on such things. Oh, there's no disputing the effect of a dynamic power supply voltage, which is something you get with a battery with a fairly high internal resistance like one made from zinc-carbon cells. I remember reading that Eric Johnson wore his batteries down to a certain point and that's where he liked them for playing. He probably lends them to students or interns and takes them back when they're "ripe." g -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo My faves so far are old ones for EU 99 cent shops. They seem to be already worn down a bit from sitting aroud. |
#34
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Peter A. Stoll wrote:
As to sources, lots of folks have been buying NiMH from Thomas Distributing for years. Include me in that group--I've had great luck with them. For a non-mobile application charger, I've really like the Vanson BC-1HU, sold by Amondotech for $24.95. It handles 4 batteries in any mix of AAA, AA, C and D, and separates the batteries enough that the AA's don't get nearly so hot as they do in comparable rate chargers in the tinier form factors. Several hour charging times are prudent--I've done visible damage to three brands of AA NiMH in a 1-hour Everready charger, as the surface temperature at termination wrinkled, split, or otherwise damage the surface coating. The Maha chargers are also excellent. I've been using their C-401FS for a couple of years now, mostly in the 8-hour mode. The 100-minute mode creates quite a bit of heat but sometimes you really need the fast charge (like in the car en route to the next location.) This charger has individual controls for each cell, while most others (including the nice new C-204W) charge cells in pairs. Since I have various devices using differing numbers of batteries I don't keep track of pairs. |