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#1
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
How would you mount a thermistor used for inrush current, to a heat sink, or
would doing so defeat its purpose? Cordially, west |
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#2
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
"west" How would you mount a thermistor used for inrush current, to a heat sink, or would doing so defeat its purpose? ** ROTFL !! ........ Phil |
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#3
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
west wrote:
How would you mount a thermistor used for inrush current, to a heat sink, or would doing so defeat its purpose? That would change its warm-up timing. Slow it down some. conversely, wrapping some insulation around it would have it get hotter faster. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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#4
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
"Phil Allison" wrote in message ... "west" How would you mount a thermistor used for inrush current, to a heat sink, or would doing so defeat its purpose? ** ROTFL !! What does ROTFL mean? west ....... Phil |
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#5
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
west wrote: "Phil Allison" wrote in message ... "west" How would you mount a thermistor used for inrush current, to a heat sink, or would doing so defeat its purpose? ** ROTFL !! What does ROTFL mean? Er, ROTFL used to mean Rolling On The Floor Laughing.... But don't mount a thermistor on a heatsink. The idea is that when cold, they have high resistance, and thus limit input currents, and its these very currents plus the lesser continuous currents which heat the thermistor according to heat in watts dissipated = I squared x R. When hot, their resistance falls due to increasing temperature, and you want no large series R when the amp is running. A state of eqilibrium exists where input current keeps the thermistor hot; if it gets hotter, the resistance falls and it tends to cool, Unfortunately such devices often expire after a short time in any amp. I have had them explode. And if you turn an amp off, the thermistor stays hot and low resistance. Then if you turn the amp on again within say 30 seconds, the thermistor is still at a low resistance and offers little limitation of inrush currents which then may cause the thermistor to become overstressed and explode/fuse. So after trying a couple of times with thermistors, I gave up. And if they run so hot, the soldering of their leads tends to fatigue quickly. I now sometimes use secondary low power auxilliary supply transformer which supplies power to run the turn on management and protection circuits so that a series R between mains and main PT is shunted 4 seconds after turn on by a relay. and even if some clown turns the amp off then on again the delay circuit still works. I also sometimes use a voltage doubler HT supply in a tube amp which then allows the heater supply to be rectified to make a PS for the management/protect circuit so that the turn on of the B+ is always subject to the 4 second delay. A typical series R needs to be well power rated even though the current surge isn't for very long. One should use 20 watt resistances at least. Once shunted by a relay the R does not dissipate any power and it remains cool. But the simpler alternative is to have permanent series R placed between the silicon rectifiers and any large value capacitors, so that typically for a big amp where they may be 470uF one would place 22 ohms, because the reactance of the 470uf at 100Hz = 3.4 ohms, and if the winding resistances of the PT are low then the peak cap charging currents are high acording to I = E / R. In the case of the 470uF, 22 ohms would reduce the peak charge I by around 7 times. The ripple voltage across the cap will still measure the same but the peak charge currents are much reduced. Usually the output voltage of say +400V will only sag a few volts due to the extra series R. For more information about PSU perhaps you should read a little more about the basic behaviour of devices and carefully consider the train of events that occur millisecond by millisecond in a power supply, and you should examine a PSU with a CRO and peak voltage peak current measuring meter with hold facility. Once all the currents and voltage swings are logged with time at all points in the PSU then you may competently be able to design and build decent power supplies that last, and don't need bandaid measures like inrush thermistors. Like many things to do with power amplifier electronics, silence and smoke greet all those who insist on proceeding by guesswork. Patrick Turner. west ....... Phil |
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#6
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
west wrote:
How would you mount a thermistor used for inrush current, to a heat sink, or would doing so defeat its purpose? This is getting truly out of hand. Folks put massive capacitors on their power supply, then they need inrush current limiting. So they install additional parts to limit the inrush, and then they add even more parts that defeat the principle by heat sinking them. It's sort of like the song about the lady who swallowed a fly, then a spider to eat the fly, then a bird to eat the spider,... The simple answer: Don't swallow the fly. I don't know why you swallowed the fly. Put reasonable sized filter caps in. Tim. |
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#7
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
wrote in message ups.com... ** Groper from Hell Alert ! This is getting truly out of hand. Folks put massive capacitors on their power supply, then they need inrush current limiting. ** Inrush surge limiting is ACTUALLY needed because of using large AC transformers - even with tube rectifiers and virtually zero surge due to PSU filter caps charging. Just a little matter of the laminated iron core going into SEVERE magnetic saturation when the primary is switched on close to an AC supply voltage zero crossing. All way over this " Tim " cretin's pointy head. So they install additional parts to limit the inrush, and then they add even more parts that defeat the principle by heat sinking them. ** No-body has done the latter - you smug ****head. It's sort of like the song about the lady who swallowed a fly, then a spider to eat the fly, then a bird to eat the spider,... ** Bet this " Tim " cretin knows an awful lot about spiders. The simple answer: Don't swallow the fly. I don't know why you swallowed the fly. Put reasonable sized filter caps in. ** Better not " swallow " any of the asinine drivel that Tim spews. It'll really make you puke...... ......... Phil |
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#8
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
Bret Ludwig wrote:
wrote: west wrote: How would you mount a thermistor used for inrush current, to a heat sink, or would doing so defeat its purpose? This is getting truly out of hand. Folks put massive capacitors on their power supply, then they need inrush current limiting. So they install additional parts to limit the inrush, and then they add even more parts that defeat the principle by heat sinking them. It's sort of like the song about the lady who swallowed a fly, then a spider to eat the fly, then a bird to eat the spider,... The simple answer: Don't swallow the fly. I don't know why you swallowed the fly. Put reasonable sized filter caps in. The transformers can take it. Ancilliary parts can't. I would strongly argue that if the original equipment came with crappy power switches etc. that can't handle the power turning on and off, that the current owners would be well advised to replace them with something more capable. Any capacitors that will blow up on a quick power on are either bad or were junk to begin with. If they blow up on power on, it's a blessing because it's easy to find the exploded parts by their dangling leads! Putting in extra parts to protect bad parts is not a very sound solution. Yes, you need a fuse, but that's not to protect the crappy under-specced parts in your project, that's to stop your house from burning down. Current surges through sagging filaments in series-string equipment are there to put those marginal tubes out of their misery :-). A Thermistor is not a cure-all because the power could still drop out and come back quickly, putting the same stresses on all the parts everyone is trying to "protect" with the thermistor that would be there if there was no thermistor. IOW better parts specification is the answer, not band-aids on band-aids. Now I myself have some bandaids on me right now. I'm not perfect. Tim. |
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#9
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
Bret Ludwig wrote: I agree with this but it has to be said, McIntosh used them for a couple of decades with great success. Some addenda, I don't necessarily think that just because Mc did it it represents best practice. McIntosh used inexpensive materials and cut costs: their build cost probably wasn't much higher than Dyna, partly because they built everything inhouse and labor costs were lower in upstate NY State than union-ridden Philly. Their stuf worked a lot better, that's beyond question. I think the ultimate is to use a DC solid state linear regulated regulated heater supply with foldback and for it to control the HV so that if either heater or bias power falis it opens the HV supply's primary. Yes but that still leaves the amp 'on' with a B+ present. If there is a bias problem or excess cathode current in one or more output tubes the amp should turn all its B+ right off, and it must stay 'off' until an attempt is made to 'reset' the amp, and if the condition repeats, the owner must seek technical help. There is little need for the complication of a series regulated B+ anode supply. But a shunt regulated screen supply makes sense with a series R to allow a voltage drop before the shunt element. If a tube's screen current becomes excessive, the regulated voltage just sags and the series R is allowed to fuse open. This means the heater supply can't be terribly efficient but if one does not have a certain power and heat budget one does not use tubes today. Such a supply can easily provide slow ramp-up of voltage. There really isn't much need to ramp up the voltage. A tube rectifier tends to do this well enough, but most tube rectifiers heat up and conduct faster than output tubes ( unless they 300B/2A3 ) so a tubed rectifier with delay in the 5V ac isn't a bad idea. Having the supply simply fold back or even just limit current properly controls cold pulsing of the heaters but it has to be set for the tube complement in use carefully. The cold pulsing isn't much of a problem because most folks don't play music until the amp has warmed a few minutes. Since the modern trend is to enable multiple similar output tubes to be used, both because of uncertain supply in the future and the coprophagic practice of tube rolling, defined ramp-up and generous overallowance of current is more practical. One can use constant current supply to the heaters for reducing the cold turn on surge due to heaters being 1/2 the hot resistance when cold. Oh yes, this is a reasonable question, so we may once again solidly be assured that despite Phil Allison having some good skills, he's an autistic **** nevertheless. **** **** ****, that's Phil. His mom should be proud. Probably, like Dolly Sinatra, is. Wonder if she does abortions with knitting needles too? Well, being likened to female genitals which most of us like to play with is a little over the top; definately innappropriate, and sure, we can judge a man harshly on his past, but what has Phil done recently that would derserve such colourful sexual conotations? Has he done something coprophagically? Patrick Turner. And its Christmas, a time when I'd like to bury the hatchet. |
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#10
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
wrote: west wrote: How would you mount a thermistor used for inrush current, to a heat sink, or would doing so defeat its purpose? This is getting truly out of hand. Folks put massive capacitors on their power supply, then they need inrush current limiting. So they install additional parts to limit the inrush, and then they add even more parts that defeat the principle by heat sinking them. It's sort of like the song about the lady who swallowed a fly, then a spider to eat the fly, then a bird to eat the spider,... The simple answer: Don't swallow the fly. I don't know why you swallowed the fly. Put reasonable sized filter caps in. Tim. Perhaps if you were to read my website at http://www.turneraudio.com.au you'd find advice on PSUs that recommend huge cap sizes, or varied cap sizes for CLC supplies and you won't need thermistors, extreme current limiting, or heatsinks. The peak charge currents into large the input resevoir cap/s after the rectifier diodes can be limited with judicious use of series R, so that if you had 1,000 uF and wanted to charge it to +500V, then the use of 32 ohms series R makes such a cap cause a maximum peak current equal to a 50 uF cap, since a 50 uF cap at say 100Hz ripple frequency has reactance = 32 ohms. The 1,000 uF has reactance at 100 Hz = 1.6 ohms, so charge currents on the first few cycles with silicon diodes tend to be large, and large enough to blow mains fuses which need to be higher than what would give protection with a saturated tube. I suggest you make a few measurements with dummy load, cap, some experimental R and a bunch of C. The 32 ohms does cause some reduction of B+ and reduction of its regulation, but in an SE or PP class A and most class AB amps this is never a problem when using music signals since the average power out is a lot less than clipping power with a sine wave. If the PS tries to draw excess current, the series R can fuse, not the transformer windings. The fixed series R = about above 7 times the cap reactance is the simplest way to limit peak charge currents, not just during turn on but all the time. Cost about $2.00. Simple. Patrick Turner. |
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#11
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
Phil Allison wrote: wrote in message ups.com... ** Groper from Hell Alert ! This is getting truly out of hand. Folks put massive capacitors on their power supply, then they need inrush current limiting. ** Inrush surge limiting is ACTUALLY needed because of using large AC transformers - even with tube rectifiers and virtually zero surge due to PSU filter caps charging. Just a little matter of the laminated iron core going into SEVERE magnetic saturation when the primary is switched on close to an AC supply voltage zero crossing. All way over this " Tim " cretin's pointy head. So they install additional parts to limit the inrush, and then they add even more parts that defeat the principle by heat sinking them. ** No-body has done the latter - you smug ****head. It's sort of like the song about the lady who swallowed a fly, then a spider to eat the fly, then a bird to eat the spider,... ** Bet this " Tim " cretin knows an awful lot about spiders. The simple answer: Don't swallow the fly. I don't know why you swallowed the fly. Put reasonable sized filter caps in. ** Better not " swallow " any of the asinine drivel that Tim spews. It'll really make you puke...... ........ Phil In a long thread of posts not too long ago the subject of inrush currents due to transformer saturation during the first few cycles was discussed at length. And we all take your point about the inrush currents due to magnetic effects. However, I have found that limiting charge currents to large caps in PS is useful by means of series R placed strategically. This allows a lower value mains fuse which is thus more effective at offering protection. In my 2x300W SS amp there are TWO x 100,000 uF capacitors, one for each + and - voltage rail. The mains fuse needed without some capacitor charge inrush limiting by means of R was about 10 amps. This means that once going, the amp would have to draw about 11 amps to make the fuse blow, and this equates to mains draw of about 2,700watts, well in excess of what would be experienced; I'd want the mains fuse to blow at the rating just slightly above the PT VA rating, ie, when about 700VA has been reached. The mains fuse could therefore be only 3 amps, and slow blow. Its not difficult to make a delay circuit that works a relay to shunt a series R as I show at my website. Patrick Turner. |
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#12
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
Patrick Turner wrote:
I suggest you make a few measurements with dummy load, cap, some experimental R and a bunch of C. The 32 ohms does cause some reduction of B+ and reduction of its regulation, but in an SE or PP class A and most class AB amps this is never a problem when using music signals since the average power out is a lot less than clipping power with a sine wave. Even better, use a choke-input filter. If the PS tries to draw excess current, the series R can fuse, not the transformer windings. The fixed series R = about above 7 times the cap reactance is the simplest way to limit peak charge currents, not just during turn on but all the time. Cost about $2.00. Simple. Big choke iron will cost a lot more than $2, I admit, even if you take into account the savings from not having to buy oversize copper to limit I2R losses in the transformer. But it just feels wrong to me to buy oversize copper to limit I2R losses and then put in a power resistor to recreate some I2R losses and then you're back to swallowing the fly again. Tim. |
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#13
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
Bret Ludwig wrote: Patrick Turner wrote: Well, being likened to female genitals which most of us like to play with is a little over the top; definately innappropriate, and sure, we can judge a man harshly on his past, but what has Phil done recently that would derserve such colourful sexual conotations? Has he done something coprophagically? Someone asked a reasonable question, albeit not a terrifically sophisticated one, and Phil comes along and attacks him like that. Can't Phil act like an adult ever? With all due respect to the original questioner about a "Termistor" it should be realised by all who know just a little about such things as thermistors that the original question showed some really gross ignorance about the device and its application, and such ignorance propels laughter amoung the more capable electronic engineers amoung us. Some of the engineers would ridicule people asking dumb questions so that they would refrain from doing so in future. What other medicine is there? The original questioner would have fared better by doing a google search on thermistors and studied the existing web texts on the subject BEFORE launching a question that he could easily have answered himself, had he applied greater accedemic discipline to his own situation, ie, not been so fukkin lazy, as more down to earth teachers would say. So I at least NOW WARN anyone reading these postings here at r.a.t that they should do some research before asking us about the most basic subjects known to all. They should ask themselves how much they should do to help themselves before expecting us to help them for nothing. Why should we be so forthcoming with answers and advice, all for free, for those who won't lift a finger to solve their own problems? I don't relish stopping to lend a pump to the cyclist by the road side who is mending a flat tyre and has no pump because he forgot to bring one along of his own. I still stop though, in the interests of goodwill to other fellows, but really it isn't much reward. I would wish therefore that all respondents to r.a.t do a little home work and home experimentation to try to find their own answers before cluttering everyone's consciousness with what are seen by some to be idiotic questions. It takes guts to approach a news group knowing one does not know everything, but the attitude is a fair one. It takes stupidity to display how little research one has done to correct the situation of low knowledge status. Phil's been known to have his "moments" which can drag on for hours, days and weeks. To expect an absense of people with easily upset dispositions on an unmoderated public news group and to expect ppl to be adult at all times is expecting way too much of human behaviour in general. Patrick Turner. |
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#14
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Termistor Mounting
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#15
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
Patrick Turner wrote:
But choke input PS are much more expensive and difficult to design than cap input PS Regarding the "difficult": Gees. That's funny, all the 40's and 50's era handbooks summarize all the "difficult" points of choke-input power supply design in a page or two, then spend 15 pages analyzing the effects of a high peak vs average current in a capacitor input design, and even you launch into many paragraphs of explanation about a single series resistor, something that all the old textbooks don't treat as a tertiary issue like you do but they start from the get-go considering total series resistance as a fundamental parameter :-). I will certainly agree that chokes aren't the cheapest thing in the world. We certainly don't live in a world where iron and copper are free. and also quite unecessary for class A or AB where current remains fairly constant and there IS a $2 solution as I have outlined above. There is more about PSU concerns at my website. Again, my solution: make all your PSU concerns be not my concerns. I don't swallow that fly. I realize that I'm in the minority here. Tim. |
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#16
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
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#17
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
"Patrick Turner" wrote in message ... Bret Ludwig wrote: Patrick Turner wrote: Well, being likened to female genitals which most of us like to play with is a little over the top; definately innappropriate, and sure, we can judge a man harshly on his past, but what has Phil done recently that would derserve such colourful sexual conotations? Has he done something coprophagically? Someone asked a reasonable question, albeit not a terrifically sophisticated one, and Phil comes along and attacks him like that. Can't Phil act like an adult ever? With all due respect to the original questioner about a "Termistor" it should be realised by all who know just a little about such things as thermistors that the original question showed some really gross ignorance about the device and its application, and such ignorance propels laughter amoung the more capable electronic engineers amoung us. Some of the engineers would ridicule people asking dumb questions so that they would refrain from doing so in future. What other medicine is there? The original questioner would have fared better by doing a google search on thermistors and studied the existing web texts on the subject BEFORE launching a question that he could easily have answered himself, had he applied greater accedemic discipline to his own situation, ie, not been so fukkin lazy, as more down to earth teachers would say. So I at least NOW WARN anyone reading these postings here at r.a.t that they should do some research before asking us about the most basic subjects known to all. They should ask themselves how much they should do to help themselves before expecting us to help them for nothing. Why should we be so forthcoming with answers and advice, all for free, for those who won't lift a finger to solve their own problems? I don't relish stopping to lend a pump to the cyclist by the road side who is mending a flat tyre and has no pump because he forgot to bring one along of his own. I still stop though, in the interests of goodwill to other fellows, but really it isn't much reward. I would wish therefore that all respondents to r.a.t do a little home work and home experimentation to try to find their own answers before cluttering everyone's consciousness with what are seen by some to be idiotic questions. It takes guts to approach a news group knowing one does not know everything, but the attitude is a fair one. It takes stupidity to display how little research one has done to correct the situation of low knowledge status. Phil's been known to have his "moments" which can drag on for hours, days and weeks. To expect an absense of people with easily upset dispositions on an unmoderated public news group and to expect ppl to be adult at all times is expecting way too much of human behaviour in general. Patrick Turner. I realized that my question wasn't well thought out as soon as I hit the send button. As far as Phil's comment, I understand that he can't help himself so nothing he says offends me. However, it's the pompous asshole Patrick who truly nauseates me. I told him once before that when asking a question, I appreciate all comments, except those of Turner, who never seems to miss an opportunity to let me know how much more of tube audio he knows than I. He NEEDS to answer questions in this NG, probably for the rest of his life. It is the very source of his substance. How pathetic that someone with all that knowledge of a subject is a complete failure at it. How many countless hours, days, months, years will he be totally and desperately searching for the admiration he never knew from his ....?? He is shackled here for the rest of his life, pathetically seeking the respect that he will never find, living almost in complete destitute, surrounded by all that ostentatious equipment that doesn't add up to anything of real value. Just like the, er, man, nothing of intrinsic value. Sad, sad, poor Patrick. This IS your life. For those of us who enjoy tube sound because it's a great hobby and not a way of life ... Season Greetings. For you Professor Turner, get help before you reach the point of no return, if you haven't already reached it. Leave Phil alone, he's actually saner than you. Cordially, west |
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#18
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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Termistor Mounting
west wrote: "Patrick Turner" wrote in message ... Bret Ludwig wrote: Patrick Turner wrote: Well, being likened to female genitals which most of us like to play with is a little over the top; definately innappropriate, and sure, we can judge a man harshly on his past, but what has Phil done recently that would derserve such colourful sexual conotations? Has he done something coprophagically? Someone asked a reasonable question, albeit not a terrifically sophisticated one, and Phil comes along and attacks him like that. Can't Phil act like an adult ever? With all due respect to the original questioner about a "Termistor" it should be realised by all who know just a little about such things as thermistors that the original question showed some really gross ignorance about the device and its application, and such ignorance propels laughter amoung the more capable electronic engineers amoung us. Some of the engineers would ridicule people asking dumb questions so that they would refrain from doing so in future. What other medicine is there? The original questioner would have fared better by doing a google search on thermistors and studied the existing web texts on the subject BEFORE launching a question that he could easily have answered himself, had he applied greater accedemic discipline to his own situation, ie, not been so fukkin lazy, as more down to earth teachers would say. So I at least NOW WARN anyone reading these postings here at r.a.t that they should do some research before asking us about the most basic subjects known to all. They should ask themselves how much they should do to help themselves before expecting us to help them for nothing. Why should we be so forthcoming with answers and advice, all for free, for those who won't lift a finger to solve their own problems? I don't relish stopping to lend a pump to the cyclist by the road side who is mending a flat tyre and has no pump because he forgot to bring one along of his own. I still stop though, in the interests of goodwill to other fellows, but really it isn't much reward. I would wish therefore that all respondents to r.a.t do a little home work and home experimentation to try to find their own answers before cluttering everyone's consciousness with what are seen by some to be idiotic questions. It takes guts to approach a news group knowing one does not know everything, but the attitude is a fair one. It takes stupidity to display how little research one has done to correct the situation of low knowledge status. Phil's been known to have his "moments" which can drag on for hours, days and weeks. To expect an absense of people with easily upset dispositions on an unmoderated public news group and to expect ppl to be adult at all times is expecting way too much of human behaviour in general. Patrick Turner. I realized that my question wasn't well thought out as soon as I hit the send button. As far as Phil's comment, I understand that he can't help himself so nothing he says offends me. However, it's the pompous asshole Patrick who truly nauseates me. I told him once before that when asking a question, I appreciate all comments, except those of Turner, who never seems to miss an opportunity to let me know how much more of tube audio he knows than I. Its impossible to talk to you about electronics related to tube craft and not give some impression to the group that i know more about it all than you do. I'm a happy pompous asshole. He NEEDS to answer questions in this NG, probably for the rest of his life. I DO NOT NEED to answer questions, and there are many which go unanswered from this direction. I enjoy the cut and thrust of public discussions, so I have an input. It is the very source of his substance. How pathetic that someone with all that knowledge of a subject is a complete failure at it. So you somehow think I am an expert, but a failure, because you have a warped idea to me about what success and failure may mean. I think you are confused ansd inconsistent in your reasoning. I cannot be so knowledgeable and a "failure at it", ie, be not knowledgeable. That would mean my knowledge wasn't as good as you know it to be. But I sure don't know everything, and still have a lot to learn, but I know to be tolerant of everyone's mainly temporary hissy fits. I put my knowledge into practice with the amplifiers and speakers I build and nobody is displeased. I am not like the sex guidance expert who remains un-married and lives alone all his life and never has any sex, even with himself.. How many countless hours, days, months, years will he be totally and desperately searching for the admiration he never knew from his ....?? He is shackled here for the rest of his life, pathetically seeking the respect that he will never find, living almost in complete destitute, surrounded by all that ostentatious equipment that doesn't add up to anything of real value. Just like the, er, man, nothing of intrinsic value. Sad, sad, poor Patrick. This IS your life. For those of us who enjoy tube sound because it's a great hobby and not a way of life ... Season Greetings. For you Professor Turner, get help before you reach the point of no return, if you haven't already reached it. Leave Phil alone, he's actually saner than you. Cordially, west Before you email me again to get advice about something you don't have much of a clue about, think well upon the spew of spiteful BS you have trotted out in your above post. When you have something to say publically, I will be there to comment like all the rest; there is no escape on a public un-moderated NG. One reason why ppl have left r.a.t is because they get the ****s about what is said to stimulate their brains and what is said to challenge their little pet truths as they see them, and they vomit up over what is asked of them to explain. The advice that is dished out to some is un-palatable because it prods them off their arses and out into their workshops where they must labour to learn, but it is the only way! I sometimes set out to be a PITA sometimes so that a subject is clearer to all of the group, and many don't like any of that. I am one who would ask a jew why he won't work on a saturday, damn it, saturday IMHO is a great day for work, and so is sunday for a christian, and to me the BS of sacred things is just BS, and if I seem pompous, an asshole, so be it, I don't care, because truth, logic, intellectual freedom comes first before all sacred cows. And I'd rather work on sunday than go to bloody church to hear a pompous priest tell me how I have to live, and so forth. If the priest wants me there he can pay me $30 per hour, and that's a fair price. He'd better have something of interest for me to discuss with him or I'll refuse his payment and go on a long bike ride instead, which where I may experience God without some pompous human getting in the way. I won't pander to give people what they want that is easy, mushy, BS ridden, etc. Consider that each and every personal summation mentioned above that you have concluded is in error, and that all you have succeeded with upon this occasion is to make a fool of yourself. Unlike many others who come and go from this group, I plan to be staying, so get used to now rather than waste time posting BS, and please try to stay with the technical even when you are wrong. Remember too that I don't reply to the vast majority of posts at r.a.t because of the BS factor and the decending into personal tirades, or else I may feel that the matter has been covered 50 times before in the last 6 years i have been here. I wish that you have a pleasing Christmas unless you are a muslim or jew, in that case try spending your time happily anyway. I hope the new year brings you a new beginning, and that the snow doesn't seem so deep. Sharpen the shovel that you may dig yourself out soon. Patrick Turner. |
Linear Mode
