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Calling all sages and sonic prophets. I need to forget I'm recording while I'm recording!!!
To All,
I told myself I'd never post a DAW recommendation request post but, I'm in dire need of some insight. Here's the deal. For starters I'm very computer literate (Network Engineer for 10 years) but, I'm sick of using my PC to track my projects. It obstructs my creation process. I'm tired of looking at a computer screen. I feel like I'm time synched and slaved to my DAW. I miss the days of my 8-track. Now before you respond to that I'll also share that I own and utilize a MCI JH-16 24 track 2" machine. I do not own a commercial studio facility. The bulk of my income comes from selling/licensing my music. I need a simpler way to create but, I do still need to use my daw for various functions. I do not use digital EQ or plugins much (Don't care for the sound). I am a VSTi freak but, lately I've transitioned away from those because I'm tired of looking at miniature knobs and sliders. I do have decent outboard and I mix through an analog desk (Sound Workshop 34c). I'm using Logic 5.5 to compose and Cubase SX to mix (Been using a DAW for 6 years now). I don't use midi much and the midi I use is generated from my MPC60. I was thinking of purchasing a standalone DAW , to use along with my 2" (can't use 2" on every project...not economically practical), or possibly a control surface. Usually I play all of the instruments on my projects (Drums, Percussion, Bass, Guitar, Rhodes and Wurlitzer). The PC always seems to distract my attention while creating/tracking. I do consider the DAW an instrument but, not one I enjoy playing. I producer/compose soul/R&B/Hip-Hop/Jazz/Gospel/etc (Fela Kuti, The Last Poets, Sly and the Family Stone, etc..). I'm an analog guy. I implement digital tools because that's what my financial situation dictates. I'm not a 70 year old , old time radio fanatic. I'm not even 30 yet so, for those of you saying this is some old rocker who's resistance to technological advancement, your mistaken. I'm a 20 something Hip-Hop head ,from Harlem ,who produces soul music with live instruments. Anyone experience something similar? Any Suggestions? -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 www.blackcree.com |
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#2
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#3
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On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:37:04 +0000, Black Cree wrote:
To All, I told myself I'd never post a DAW recommendation request post but, I'm in dire need of some insight. Here's the deal. For starters I'm very computer literate (Network Engineer for 10 years) but, I'm sick of using my PC to track my projects. It obstructs my creation process. I'm tired of looking at a computer screen. I feel like I'm time synched and slaved to my DAW. I miss the days of my 8-track. Now before you respond to that I'll also share that I own and utilize a MCI JH-16 24 track 2" machine. I do not own a commercial studio facility. The bulk of my income comes from selling/licensing my music. I need a simpler way to create but, I do still need to use my daw for various functions. I do not use digital EQ or plugins much (Don't care for the sound). I am a VSTi freak but, lately I've transitioned away from those because I'm tired of looking at miniature knobs and sliders. I do have decent outboard and I mix through an analog desk (Sound Workshop 34c). I'm using Logic 5.5 to compose and Cubase SX to mix (Been using a DAW for 6 years now). I don't use midi much and the midi I use is generated from my MPC60. I was thinking of purchasing a standalone DAW , to use along with my 2" (can't use 2" on every project...not economically practical), or possibly a control surface. Usually I play all of the instruments on my projects (Drums, Percussion, Bass, Guitar, Rhodes and Wurlitzer). The PC always seems to distract my attention while creating/tracking. I do consider the DAW an instrument but, not one I enjoy playing. Keep it simple. Using two different programs is a bad idea. If you need to do a load of editing and manipulation, and find that one program works better than the other, but prefer mixing on another program, then you are already deep into computer distraction world. If you don't need to do a load of messing about, then just make some multitrack templates in Logic or Cubase, and use it like a hardware DAW. Then, you can get interaction down to track select, record, rewind and play. You don't have to stare at the screen all time time, resist the urge to start cutting and pasting. Self control and discipline is the key, there are always distractions. I know this is very basic stuff, and not a technical solution. I have found myself having inspiration sucked away by the computer too, and the only solution that worked for me was to make templates and normalise the io in my setup to require as little computer interaction as possible. I producer/compose soul/R&B/Hip-Hop/Jazz/Gospel/etc (Fela Kuti, The Last Poets, Sly and the Family Stone, etc..). I'm an analog guy. I implement digital tools because that's what my financial situation dictates. I'm not a 70 year old , old time radio fanatic. I'm not even 30 yet so, for those of you saying this is some old rocker who's resistance to technological advancement, your mistaken. I'm a 20 something Hip-Hop head ,from Harlem ,who produces soul music with live instruments. Anyone experience something similar? Any Suggestions? -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 www.blackcree.com |
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#4
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Great Advice from you both. I knew Mike Rivers would respond to the "Sage"
cry  . Where's Arny Krueger?? yeah I was either considering going with a standalone DAW or a control surface. I don't do much manipulation of my tracks. I do find that for my R&B stuff 24 tracks doesn't cut it and that's mainly because I have some insecure clients who want to layer stuff 7 and 8 times over. The two programs things probably isn't the best idea. So Mike, would you go with the Mackie DAW over a control surface? Also, I'm not actually looking for a digital sound. I don't like digital sound. It's just that I have a very affordable rate structure that I offer to my clients. I often need to work as quickly as possible and the tape doesn't allow me to do that , at times. I also don't mind , too much, mixing tracks coming back from my layla24. For some clients I will do a DAW mix. It's just more time/economically efficient. I never record over 24bit/44khz. The Mackie sounds like a sound idea along with the other methods mentioned because I'd still like to use Logic or Cubase for vocals. Thank You! -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 www.blackcree.com "philicorda" wrote in message news  On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:37:04 +0000, Black Cree wrote: To All, I told myself I'd never post a DAW recommendation request post but, I'm in dire need of some insight. Here's the deal. For starters I'm very computer literate (Network Engineer for 10 years) but, I'm sick of using my PC to track my projects. It obstructs my creation process. I'm tired of looking at a computer screen. I feel like I'm time synched and slaved to my DAW. I miss the days of my 8-track. Now before you respond to that I'll also share that I own and utilize a MCI JH-16 24 track 2" machine. I do not own a commercial studio facility. The bulk of my income comes from selling/licensing my music. I need a simpler way to create but, I do still need to use my daw for various functions. I do not use digital EQ or plugins much (Don't care for the sound). I am a VSTi freak but, lately I've transitioned away from those because I'm tired of looking at miniature knobs and sliders. I do have decent outboard and I mix through an analog desk (Sound Workshop 34c). I'm using Logic 5.5 to compose and Cubase SX to mix (Been using a DAW for 6 years now). I don't use midi much and the midi I use is generated from my MPC60. I was thinking of purchasing a standalone DAW , to use along with my 2" (can't use 2" on every project...not economically practical), or possibly a control surface. Usually I play all of the instruments on my projects (Drums, Percussion, Bass, Guitar, Rhodes and Wurlitzer). The PC always seems to distract my attention while creating/tracking. I do consider the DAW an instrument but, not one I enjoy playing. Keep it simple. Using two different programs is a bad idea. If you need to do a load of editing and manipulation, and find that one program works better than the other, but prefer mixing on another program, then you are already deep into computer distraction world. If you don't need to do a load of messing about, then just make some multitrack templates in Logic or Cubase, and use it like a hardware DAW. Then, you can get interaction down to track select, record, rewind and play. You don't have to stare at the screen all time time, resist the urge to start cutting and pasting. Self control and discipline is the key, there are always distractions. I know this is very basic stuff, and not a technical solution. I have found myself having inspiration sucked away by the computer too, and the only solution that worked for me was to make templates and normalise the io in my setup to require as little computer interaction as possible. I producer/compose soul/R&B/Hip-Hop/Jazz/Gospel/etc (Fela Kuti, The Last Poets, Sly and the Family Stone, etc..). I'm an analog guy. I implement digital tools because that's what my financial situation dictates. I'm not a 70 year old , old time radio fanatic. I'm not even 30 yet so, for those of you saying this is some old rocker who's resistance to technological advancement, your mistaken. I'm a 20 something Hip-Hop head ,from Harlem ,who produces soul music with live instruments. Anyone experience something similar? Any Suggestions? -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 www.blackcree.com |
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#5
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For anyone interested someone suggested a numeric keypad taped to a Mic
stand in the control room to select and Arm tracks as well as a data projector so, I could view the arrange/mixer window from across the room. Both great ideas, IMO. -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 www.blackcree.com "Black Cree" wrote in message ... Great Advice from you both. I knew Mike Rivers would respond to the "Sage" cry . Where's Arny Krueger?? yeah I was either considering going with a standalone DAW or a control surface. I don't do much manipulation of my tracks. I do find that for my R&B stuff 24 tracks doesn't cut it and that's mainly because I have some insecure clients who want to layer stuff 7 and 8 times over. The two programs things probably isn't the best idea. So Mike, would you go with the Mackie DAW over a control surface? Also, I'm not actually looking for a digital sound. I don't like digital sound. It's just that I have a very affordable rate structure that I offer to my clients. I often need to work as quickly as possible and the tape doesn't allow me to do that , at times. I also don't mind , too much, mixing tracks coming back from my layla24. For some clients I will do a DAW mix. It's just more time/economically efficient. I never record over 24bit/44khz. The Mackie sounds like a sound idea along with the other methods mentioned because I'd still like to use Logic or Cubase for vocals. Thank You! -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 www.blackcree.com "philicorda" wrote in message news On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 22:37:04 +0000, Black Cree wrote: To All, I told myself I'd never post a DAW recommendation request post but, I'm in dire need of some insight. Here's the deal. For starters I'm very computer literate (Network Engineer for 10 years) but, I'm sick of using my PC to track my projects. It obstructs my creation process. I'm tired of looking at a computer screen. I feel like I'm time synched and slaved to my DAW. I miss the days of my 8-track. Now before you respond to that I'll also share that I own and utilize a MCI JH-16 24 track 2" machine. I do not own a commercial studio facility. The bulk of my income comes from selling/licensing my music. I need a simpler way to create but, I do still need to use my daw for various functions. I do not use digital EQ or plugins much (Don't care for the sound). I am a VSTi freak but, lately I've transitioned away from those because I'm tired of looking at miniature knobs and sliders. I do have decent outboard and I mix through an analog desk (Sound Workshop 34c). I'm using Logic 5.5 to compose and Cubase SX to mix (Been using a DAW for 6 years now). I don't use midi much and the midi I use is generated from my MPC60. I was thinking of purchasing a standalone DAW , to use along with my 2" (can't use 2" on every project...not economically practical), or possibly a control surface. Usually I play all of the instruments on my projects (Drums, Percussion, Bass, Guitar, Rhodes and Wurlitzer). The PC always seems to distract my attention while creating/tracking. I do consider the DAW an instrument but, not one I enjoy playing. Keep it simple. Using two different programs is a bad idea. If you need to do a load of editing and manipulation, and find that one program works better than the other, but prefer mixing on another program, then you are already deep into computer distraction world. If you don't need to do a load of messing about, then just make some multitrack templates in Logic or Cubase, and use it like a hardware DAW. Then, you can get interaction down to track select, record, rewind and play. You don't have to stare at the screen all time time, resist the urge to start cutting and pasting. Self control and discipline is the key, there are always distractions. I know this is very basic stuff, and not a technical solution. I have found myself having inspiration sucked away by the computer too, and the only solution that worked for me was to make templates and normalise the io in my setup to require as little computer interaction as possible. I producer/compose soul/R&B/Hip-Hop/Jazz/Gospel/etc (Fela Kuti, The Last Poets, Sly and the Family Stone, etc..). I'm an analog guy. I implement digital tools because that's what my financial situation dictates. I'm not a 70 year old , old time radio fanatic. I'm not even 30 yet so, for those of you saying this is some old rocker who's resistance to technological advancement, your mistaken. I'm a 20 something Hip-Hop head ,from Harlem ,who produces soul music with live instruments. Anyone experience something similar? Any Suggestions? -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 www.blackcree.com |
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#7
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Very informative.
When I say the digital route is more expedient for me, I mean there's no maintenance routine. For my financially challenged clients I'll track straight to digital because these are usually the clients who also don't care if the tracks have that analog "warmth" or "likable" distortion. These may be folks who are doing their mixes elsewhere or by themselves and are hiring me for my creative expertise. On those projects I tend to use VST's and maybe a live bass or guitar just to add some realism. Again, this setup is for the financianally challenged folks I work with. The Mackie sounds like the way to go. I won't ask for a comparison between the various DAW's because there is more than enough in the RAP archives to allow me to educate myself on that subject. My dilemma was/is more rooted in my workflow and the obstructions that hinder me from facilitating a thought to substance execution. Thanks again! I have a lot of good stuff to go on. -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 www.blackcree.com "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1097502025k@trad... In article writes: So Mike, would you go with the Mackie DAW over a control surface? Well, that's my choice. The reason is that the Mackie just works without any fooling around, without any external devices to control it, and without any temptation to make it better with upgrades from third party suppliers. There have been five software upgrades to the Mackie (six if you count the extra-cost one with the ProTools import/export, but that's just a variant of Version 1.4) over its lifetime. There's been only one hardware upgrade (a $50 option), a new BIOS chip that allows using larger disk drives than the original design limit of 32 GB - well there was a firmware upgrade for early production units but that was more than 3 years ago, plus the first graphics boards don't work with the last software, but Mackie replaced those on request. There are some quirks, some things that we wish Mackie had implemented differently that were never changed, and hardware does indeed break occaionally, but for the most part these recorders are really trouble-free and with only a couple of exceptions, are a very easy adjustment for someone who is accustomed to working with an analog recorder. And two of them integrate nicely for 48 tracks if you need it (or 24 tracks at 96 kHz with AES/EBU I/O cards and external converters, franky a pretty expensive proposition). Your second recorder in a 48 track rig can be an MDR24/96 without the graphical editing and you can still perform edits on its tracks based on positioning of the "master" recorder with the GUI. Or take two MDRs out for 48 tracks of remote recording. Also, I'm not actually looking for a digital sound. I don't like digital sound. It's just that I have a very affordable rate structure that I offer to my clients. To me, the Mackie sounds as good as my 2" Ampex but with flatter frequency response and no flutter. I was never into the tape saturation thing so I don't miss it. Some people use an analog recorder as an effect processor but I don't particularly subscribe to that either. I record almost exclusively acoustic music and it sounds just fine for that. I often need to work as quickly as possible and the tape doesn't allow me to do that One of the advantages of tape is that it IS quick. I know that people fret over rewind time, but geez, just how fast do you want to work? The speed in getting up and running (which isn't always billable time) or for moving a project from a stored backup to where you can work on it are slower on a DAW. The speed advantage of a DAW comes when you want to listen to what you've done immediately, not 15 seconds later. But I don't work that way. I personally don't find it any faster to find a good note somewhere and use it to replace a bad one than to re-do or punch-in a section, but that's just me. Some people would rather do anything but re-record what's already been done. I never record over 24bit/44khz. The Mackie sounds like a sound idea along with the other methods mentioned because I'd still like to use Logic or Cubase for vocals. This is one of the things that the Mackie HDR24/96 is really good for. Just like a DAW, you can set auto punch points, you can loop over a section for repeated tries, and it has 8 "virtual takes" per track so you can record a vocal (or a section of a vocal) up to eight times and easily construct a composite track of the best pieces. While you don't have EQ that you can add to a phrase, you do have a volume envelope control so you can match levels in your edited track. I expect to get harassed for promoting a piece of obsolete technology, but hey, I've already been harassed for promoting analog recording, so what the heck. Besides, I need every opportunity I can find to promote my new book: "The Last Mackie Hard Disk Recorder Manual" http://www.cafepress.com/mikerivers -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#8
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#9
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Your welcome for the laugh but, to clarify, I was comparing the maintenance
routine of dealing with my 2" as opposed to those of maybe a standalone DAW. If I was comfortable with my current digital routine , there would have been no need for this post. but, you're right , in a sense. I do offer up my mixing creativity , as well but, because of the nature of my business, many of my clients are not local to the NY/NJ area. They tend to mix in the same places they record vocals. It actually works out better for me because, my place isn't really setup for commercial traffic. I do bring clients in from time to time but, I prefer to sell my work and be on to the next project. I suppose I should also mention that I'm not too impressed with my mixes at this stage of the game. Though they sound better than the average Hip-Hop/R&B mix coming straight out of a Korg Triton into Pro Tools LE being monitored on a pair of Alesis Monitor Ones, I have enough respect and admiration for the role of the mix engineer to know/hear that my mixes ain't nuthin' special. I prefer to track at my studio and create and leave it at that. I do my own mixes for my personal projects because I'll typically have the time to dedicate to getting them right. I think it just takes me too long to mix due to my lack of experience and know-how in that area. Most people who hire me for my services just want something that sounds radio ready. Now we all know that perusing that standard can be as beneficial to your artistic development as a lead lifesaver is to a fisherman. The clients who come with this contention always seem to have the least amount of money as well as snicker when I tell them I have a 2" machine and I'd prefer to play my Rhodes as opposed to the latest, greatest Rhodes patch that they've burned for me on a CD. Still, that Mackie is sounding better and better. I would use that for my clients and still roll with my MCI for myself and for my clients who desire it. Either way, I can move away from my computer during the tracking/creation process. -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 www.blackcree.com "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1097535648k@trad... In article writes: When I say the digital route is more expedient for me, I mean there's no maintenance routine. Thanks for the laugh! You don't have to align heads, but unless you're the most self-disciplined engineer on the planet, you'll constantly be wanting to add things you your computer, you'll be hunting for new drivers, updates to your software, security patches, making backups, and so on. If that isn't maintenance, I don't know what is. The only problem is that it's on your nickel and you can't really translate that into your studio rates. These may be folks who are doing their mixes elsewhere or by themselves and are hiring me for my creative expertise. On those projects I tend to use VST's and maybe a live bass or guitar just to add some realism. Again, this setup is for the financianally challenged folks I work with. Well, you have to give the clients what they want if you want to keep those clients. Why can't you sell them your mixing creativity as well? But for what it's worth, if your clients are going to take their files elsewhere for mixing, the Mackie recorders will allow you to export audio as broadcast wave files, but I'll warn you - figuring out what you have and what goes with what is a bugger (but that's the same situation with any DAW). The Mackie has a simple way to render tracks so that all the punch-ins and edits get merged into a single file per track. That's the best way to manage transfer to another system. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#10
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Black Cree wrote:
I'm tired of looking at a computer screen. I feel like I'm time synched and slaved to my DAW. I miss the days of my 8-track. Fostex! Yusef Assaan Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
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#11
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To All, I told myself I'd never post a DAW recommendation request post but, I'm in dire need of some insight. Here's the deal. For starters I'm very computer literate (Network Engineer for 10 years) but, I'm sick of using my PC to track my projects. It obstructs my creation process. I'm tired of looking at a computer screen. I feel like I'm time synched and slaved to my DAW. I miss the days of my 8-track. Now before you respond to that I'll also share that I own and utilize a MCI JH-16 24 track 2" machine. I do not own a commercial studio facility. The bulk of my income comes from selling/licensing my music. I need a simpler way to create but, I do still need to use my daw for various functions. I do not use digital EQ or plugins much (Don't care for the sound). I am a VSTi freak but, lately I've transitioned away from those because I'm tired of looking at miniature knobs and sliders. I do have decent outboard and I mix through an analog desk (Sound Workshop 34c). I'm using Logic 5.5 to compose and Cubase SX to mix (Been using a DAW for 6 years now). I don't use midi much and the midi I use is generated from my MPC60. I was thinking of purchasing a standalone DAW , to use along with my 2" (can't use 2" on every project...not economically practical), or possibly a control surface. Usually I play all of the instruments on my projects (Drums, Percussion, Bass, Guitar, Rhodes and Wurlitzer). The PC always seems to distract my attention while creating/tracking. I do consider the DAW an instrument but, not one I enjoy playing. I producer/compose soul/R&B/Hip-Hop/Jazz/Gospel/etc (Fela Kuti, The Last Poets, Sly and the Family Stone, etc..). I'm an analog guy. I implement digital tools because that's what my financial situation dictates. I'm not a 70 year old , old time radio fanatic. I'm not even 30 yet so, for those of you saying this is some old rocker who's resistance to technological advancement, your mistaken. I'm a 20 something Hip-Hop head ,from Harlem ,who produces soul music with live instruments. Anyone experience something similar? Any Suggestions? -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 www.blackcree.com Alesis HD 24 and a fireport to transfer the files into your computer for mixing and editing. Dead simple, works like a tape recorder, decent sound and used all over the country. Richard H. Kuschel "I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty |
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#12
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Well I guess this would be about the same resolve as going with the Mackie
HDR. No? -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 www.blackcree.com "Richard Kuschel" wrote in message ... To All, I told myself I'd never post a DAW recommendation request post but, I'm in dire need of some insight. Here's the deal. For starters I'm very computer literate (Network Engineer for 10 years) but, I'm sick of using my PC to track my projects. It obstructs my creation process. I'm tired of looking at a computer screen. I feel like I'm time synched and slaved to my DAW. I miss the days of my 8-track. Now before you respond to that I'll also share that I own and utilize a MCI JH-16 24 track 2" machine. I do not own a commercial studio facility. The bulk of my income comes from selling/licensing my music. I need a simpler way to create but, I do still need to use my daw for various functions. I do not use digital EQ or plugins much (Don't care for the sound). I am a VSTi freak but, lately I've transitioned away from those because I'm tired of looking at miniature knobs and sliders. I do have decent outboard and I mix through an analog desk (Sound Workshop 34c). I'm using Logic 5.5 to compose and Cubase SX to mix (Been using a DAW for 6 years now). I don't use midi much and the midi I use is generated from my MPC60. I was thinking of purchasing a standalone DAW , to use along with my 2" (can't use 2" on every project...not economically practical), or possibly a control surface. Usually I play all of the instruments on my projects (Drums, Percussion, Bass, Guitar, Rhodes and Wurlitzer). The PC always seems to distract my attention while creating/tracking. I do consider the DAW an instrument but, not one I enjoy playing. I producer/compose soul/R&B/Hip-Hop/Jazz/Gospel/etc (Fela Kuti, The Last Poets, Sly and the Family Stone, etc..). I'm an analog guy. I implement digital tools because that's what my financial situation dictates. I'm not a 70 year old , old time radio fanatic. I'm not even 30 yet so, for those of you saying this is some old rocker who's resistance to technological advancement, your mistaken. I'm a 20 something Hip-Hop head ,from Harlem ,who produces soul music with live instruments. Anyone experience something similar? Any Suggestions? -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 www.blackcree.com Alesis HD 24 and a fireport to transfer the files into your computer for mixing and editing. Dead simple, works like a tape recorder, decent sound and used all over the country. Richard H. Kuschel "I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty |
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#13
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Well I guess this would be about the same resolve as going with the Mackie HDR. No? -- Yusef Assaan Black Cree "More Than Tracks and Beats" 201.735.0097 Perhaps, what's the price difference? Richard H. Kuschel "I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty |
Linear Mode
