Hi,
I want to record instruments like an amplified electric guitar, bass, a
keyboard and then transfer it to a computer to edit, mix several tracks on a
computer. I also want to record all kinds of different sounds , etc, outside
or wherever, with a portable recorder and transfer those tracks to a
computer and edit and mix them with pre-recorded tracks of other
instruments, effects, sounds.

My main concern is to get high quality professional sound.
I want to get a portable recorder which will give me professional high
quality sound and something durable in all weather conditions and not too
cumbersome to carry.
I want to be able to transfer those on a computer without losing any
quality.

I'm willing to invest several thousand dollars if I really have too to get
professional high quality sound. But if I don't really need to I'd like to
keep the cost down as much as possible by buying used equipment or high
quality inexpensive equipment (around a $1000-$1500).

I've done some research on this and have come up with the following from
other people's recommendations :

Sound card: M-audioaudiophile 24/96
Microphone: Oktava MC012
Pre-amp (to boost signal to microphone):
M-Audio audio buddy dual preamp
Portable Recorder: Tascam Dap 1
Steinberg Cubase


I'm new to this so I'd really appreciate some advise on home computer
recording and field recording.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

james hather wrote:


http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox3/specs.asp
Plenty of storage. Battery life should be ok. Stores uncompressed WAV
files. I'd really like to know the downsides to using one these
though...as they are intended for consumer.

I was seriously considering this little unit; Untill I've read the users
reviews. Apparently the thing is flimsy and cheaply built, the failure rate
is extremely high as about half of the reviews mentionned total failure
under a ten month period, support from creative is nil and the warranty
period is only three month. That all combine to make me want to stay as far
away from this product as I can, but that's only my own opinion so feel free
to read reviews and make your own. Oh, and all reported battery life to be
about 3 hours, not the 14+ mentionned by creative.

--
www.odysea.ca

"Deco_time" wrote in message


james hather wrote:

http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox3/specs.asp
Plenty of storage. Battery life should be ok. Stores uncompressed WAV
files. I'd really like to know the downsides to using one these
though...as they are intended for consumer.

They are good for consumers who are able to surmount the computer
interfacing issues. One subtle point is the fact that uploads and downloads
are dicey unless you are running the thing off its AC power adaptor AND the
internal battery is at least half-charged. You also need special software to
do any kind of upload or download. Some competitive devices (iRiver) don't
need any support software at all to interface with XP systems.

I was seriously considering this little unit; until I've read the
users reviews. Apparently the thing is flimsy and cheaply built,

Well, its got a 2.5" hard drive in it, just like a laptop. It's got up to 2
Li Ion batteries in it that add some more weight. Drop it hard enough on
concrete or tile floors enough and it breaks apart, or just stops working.
It takes abuse better than a laptop, but not as well as a portable tape or
the better portable CD players, or most flash-based music player.

If you want ruggedness, stick with the flash-based players. But then you
will probably have to kiss uncompressed files good-bye.

the failure rate is extremely high as about half of the reviews
mentioned total failure under a ten month period,

But of course these users never abuse their gear.

I admit it. I dropped mine onto a hardwood floor once or twice and a
carpeted floor a few times more. It is still ticking after 8 months or so.

support from creative is nil

They provide firmware and support software updates from time-to-time.

and the warranty period is only three month.

True, but under the conditions and given the competitive pricing...

That all
combine to make me want to stay as far away from this product as I
can, but that's only my own opinion so feel free to read reviews and
make your own. Oh, and all reported battery life to be about 3 hours,
not the 14+ mentioned by creative.

Horsefeathers. I use mine primarily to record and play back .wav files which
puts a lot of extra stress on the battery as the hard drive runs almost
constantly. I get about 8 hours per charge. Based on the few times I've used
it to play or record MP3s, battery life with them would be more at least
doubled, maybe tripled.

The good news is that you can replace the batteries in a NJB3 in the field
with no tools. Try that with an iPod or competitive iRiver box.

mark wrote:

My main concern is to get high quality professional sound.
I want to get a portable recorder which will give me professional high
quality sound and something durable in all weather conditions and not too
cumbersome to carry.
I want to be able to transfer those on a computer without losing any
quality.

You might have a look at our PDAudio system:

http://www.core-sound.com/HighResRecorderNews.html

PDAudio is a handheld dual-channel 24/96 solid state (or hard disk)
recorder.

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

I think the solution to all these problems is waiting for Hi-MD.



"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news
"Deco_time" wrote in message


james hather wrote:

http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox3/specs.asp
Plenty of storage. Battery life should be ok. Stores uncompressed WAV
files. I'd really like to know the downsides to using one these
though...as they are intended for consumer.

They are good for consumers who are able to surmount the computer
interfacing issues. One subtle point is the fact that uploads and
downloads
are dicey unless you are running the thing off its AC power adaptor AND
the
internal battery is at least half-charged. You also need special software
to
do any kind of upload or download. Some competitive devices (iRiver) don't
need any support software at all to interface with XP systems.

I was seriously considering this little unit; until I've read the
users reviews. Apparently the thing is flimsy and cheaply built,

Well, its got a 2.5" hard drive in it, just like a laptop. It's got up to
2
Li Ion batteries in it that add some more weight. Drop it hard enough on
concrete or tile floors enough and it breaks apart, or just stops working.
It takes abuse better than a laptop, but not as well as a portable tape or
the better portable CD players, or most flash-based music player.

If you want ruggedness, stick with the flash-based players. But then you
will probably have to kiss uncompressed files good-bye.

the failure rate is extremely high as about half of the reviews
mentioned total failure under a ten month period,

But of course these users never abuse their gear.

I admit it. I dropped mine onto a hardwood floor once or twice and a
carpeted floor a few times more. It is still ticking after 8 months or so.

support from creative is nil

They provide firmware and support software updates from time-to-time.

and the warranty period is only three month.

True, but under the conditions and given the competitive pricing...

That all
combine to make me want to stay as far away from this product as I
can, but that's only my own opinion so feel free to read reviews and
make your own. Oh, and all reported battery life to be about 3 hours,
not the 14+ mentioned by creative.

Horsefeathers. I use mine primarily to record and play back .wav files
which
puts a lot of extra stress on the battery as the hard drive runs almost
constantly. I get about 8 hours per charge. Based on the few times I've
used
it to play or record MP3s, battery life with them would be more at least
doubled, maybe tripled.

The good news is that you can replace the batteries in a NJB3 in the field
with no tools. Try that with an iPod or competitive iRiver box.

In article writes:

http://www.nomadworld.com/products/Jukebox3/specs.asp

I was seriously considering this little unit; Untill I've read the users
reviews. Apparently the thing is flimsy and cheaply built, the failure rate
is extremely high as about half of the reviews mentionned total failure
under a ten month period, support from creative is nil and the warranty
period is only three month.

I've had one for practically two years now and use it whenever I
travel (which is a fair amount) and I occasionally use it for
recording concerts, either as the only recorder if it's a casual thing
or a backup if it's a real gig. It works fine, and I think that it's
surprisingly well built. The only quirk that I've found is that
sometimes it doesn't stop when I press the stop button, but I've
discovered that if I "click" it at the right rate (not holding it in
too long) it works every time I think that hard about it. The analog
input sounds much better than I'd expect for anything so inexpensive.

My only complaint is that when they added a mic recording function
(that was a software update) it didn't turn out to be useful to me. I
usually connect it to a console output or use it with an outboard mic
preamp.

That all combine to make me want to stay as far
away from this product as I can, but that's only my own opinion so feel free
to read reviews and make your own.


How about you reading reports from some people who like it? While
there are always people around here who will pick apart anything,
there are a number of people like me who have much better and more
professional gear costing (and earning us) much more money, but enjoy
and appreciate the Jukebox 3 for what it is.

Oh, and all reported battery life to be
about 3 hours, not the 14+ mentionned by creative.

I think in order to get 14 hours, you'll need to add a second battery.
I've flown across the US and almost all the way back on a charge,
close to 8 hours of play time. Usually I'll recharge before the flight
home but one trip I forgot to take the charger with me and I got a
chance to test it. I suspect that it might draw a little more current
when recording (and therefore have a shorter operating life on a
charge) but I'll bet it's not too much different. After all, it isn't
like a tape deck. It does pretty much the same thing electronically
whether it's recording or playing.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

I think the solution to all these problems is waiting for Hi-MD.

Waiting for the next new thing is never a solution to a problem that
you have now. At this point, it's only a rumor in another time. At
least we have some info on several existing portable recording devices
that can be bought, plugged in, and work.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Not really sure what you're looking for but the Deva is rapidly becoming a
standard recorder in Hollywood.
Phil Brown

Phil I appreciate you recommending a great portable recorder but the Deva
hard disk recorder is $10,000. This is way above my budget. There has to be
something which can provide high quality recording - is portable - and that
is affordable.
http://www.zaxcom.com/audio/deva.shtml


I'm having trouble choosing the right portable recorder.
My first choice was to buy a tascam dap1 portable but some people say that
dat machines are on the way out. Then there are some that say dat machines
give the best possible sound. However, some argue against dat since they
tend to break down in harsh ennvironments.
I was planning to buy a used tascam dap1 , but I've been worned that the
heads could be worn and that I'm better off buying it new.
Then there are some people who recommend hard disk recorders others
mini-disc recorders. Mini-disc's from what I understand are not as good as
dat recorders since they need to be converted from analog to digital and
then back from digital to analog which results in a loss in quality (when
transferring the sounds from the mini-disk to a computer); noisy pre-amps
for mics ; there's also the factor of compressed format in mini-disc which
I'm not to clear about (it isn't as good a quality sound). Not sure about
hard disk recorders and if they are as good as dat machines in producing
high quality sound.



"Phil Brown" wrote in message
...
Not really sure what you're looking for but the Deva is rapidly becoming a
standard recorder in Hollywood.
Phil Brown

mark wrote:

I appreciate you recommending a great portable recorder but the Deva
hard disk recorder is $10,000. This is way above my budget. There has to be
something which can provide high quality recording - is portable - and that
is affordable.
...
My first choice was to buy a tascam dap1 portable but some people say that
dat machines are on the way out. Then there are some that say dat machines
give the best possible sound. However, some argue against dat since they
tend to break down in harsh ennvironments.
I was planning to buy a used tascam dap1 , but I've been worned that the
heads could be worn and that I'm better off buying it new.

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/7.htm 2-channel version should retail for $2,000 (easy to find the standard discounts online and interpret as needed.) A little bit more initial cost than a DA-P1 but far better electronics, less to break, and effectively no media cost.

In article writes:

My first choice was to buy a tascam dap1 portable but some people say that
dat machines are on the way out.

DAT is on the way out, but it will be with us for a while yet. If you
could find a realy good DAT, it would probably last the life of your
project. Today, however, that's a big "if."

Then there are some that say dat machines give the best possible sound.

The "sound" is primarily a function of the analog circuitry. This is
something that, because of new chips released, gets better about every
six months. Any DAT that you find now will have technology that's
several generations old, and it's quite likely that a modest consumer
unit like the Jukebox will actually sound better if used correctly.

However, some argue against dat since they
tend to break down in harsh ennvironments.

Like any rotary head device, they don't like wet heads and they don't
like dirt and grime. I seem to remember you said you were going to be
working in a jungle or rain forest. Condensation is likely to be your
worst problem, and a DAT won't run when it thinks it's too damp.

I was planning to buy a used tascam dap1 , but I've been worned that the
heads could be worn and that I'm better off buying it new.

This is true. I'm not sure if you can still buy a new one. The good
thing about the DA-P1 is that it uses a full sized head drum so it's
more mechanically robust than the Walkman style recorders. Also, it's
big enough not to get knocked around easily, and it uses XLR
connectors which are more reliable than the mini jacks that are found
on all of the consumer products.

Mini-disc's from what I understand are not as good as
dat recorders since they need to be converted from analog to digital and
then back from digital to analog which results in a loss in quality (when
transferring the sounds from the mini-disk to a computer);

That's not really the worst part. The worst thing about a Minidisk is
the data compression algorithm used to cram six to ten times as much
audio on to a disk as would fit if some of it wasn't left behind. The
new high density minidisk which has an uncompressed recording mode
gets around this, but since those products aren't on the market yet,
we don't know just what form they'll take. How long can you wait?

Have you looked at the Fostex portable removable media recorders? It
would be hard to stay below $1000 with one when you add the media
cost, but I'll bet you could get a recorder and a couple of decent
sized PCMCIA disk drives for under $2,000.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

My first choice was to buy a tascam dap1 portable but some
people say that dat machines are on the way out.

"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
DAT is on the way out, but it will be with us for a while yet. If you
could find a realy good DAT, it would probably last the life of your
project. Today, however, that's a big "if."

Over on news:rec.arts.movies.production.sound (where they use
likely a large portion of all DAT tape produced) there have been
recent reports that some of their sources of supply are drying up.

In article ,
Richard Crowley wrote:
My first choice was to buy a tascam dap1 portable but some
people say that dat machines are on the way out.

"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
DAT is on the way out, but it will be with us for a while yet. If you
could find a realy good DAT, it would probably last the life of your
project. Today, however, that's a big "if."

Over on news:rec.arts.movies.production.sound (where they use
likely a large portion of all DAT tape produced) there have been
recent reports that some of their sources of supply are drying up.

I haven't seen any decrease in supply or drop in quality on the computer
DDS tapes, which I have been using. In fact, now that DIC has gone under,
I have probably seen an increase in quality since those junk tapes are out
of circulation.

But it is certainly becoming a small niche product.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"mark" wrote in message
I'm having trouble choosing the right portable recorder.
My first choice was to buy a tascam dap1 portable but some people say that
dat machines are on the way out. Then there are some that say dat machines
give the best possible sound. However, some argue against dat since they
tend to break down in harsh ennvironments.
I was planning to buy a used tascam dap1 , but I've been worned that the
heads could be worn and that I'm better off buying it new.

Mark, I'll sell you my Sony D7 for $150. It has worked well for me, but I
record more than 60 minutes at a time and hate switching tapes in the middle
of a song.

In article writes:

Mark, I'll sell you my Sony D7 for $150. It has worked well for me, but I
record more than 60 minutes at a time and hate switching tapes in the middle
of a song.

Doesn't it work with 90 or 120 minute tapes? While many DAT recorders
get unhappy with the thinner computer tape (90 or 120 meter length)
all the tape 120 minutes (60 meters) and under is the same "audio"
thickness and should work fine.

I haven't needed to order DAT tape for a couple of years, but last
time I looked at the Cassette House web site they still sold it. I've
always had good luck with their house brand "Master DAT" tape.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

james hather wrote:

I think the solution to all these problems is waiting for Hi-MD.

Only if you think that 16/44.1 is adequate, an hour and forty minutes of
recording time per disk is enough, and that Sony's mass-market MD's mic
pre-amps sound okay.

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

mark wrote:

Phil I appreciate you recommending a great portable recorder but the Deva
hard disk recorder is $10,000. This is way above my budget. There has to be
something which can provide high quality recording - is portable - and that
is affordable.
http://www.zaxcom.com/audio/deva.shtml

How about our PDAudio?

http://www.core-sound.com/HighResRecorderNews.html

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912