| Home |
| Search |
| Today's Posts |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
kick and bass too similar in frequency. Don't know how to differentiate the 2
I am currently mixing this song and am slowly coming to terms with the
fact that I will never be able to blend the kick with the bass. It took me long enough to realize that they were both nearly identical in frequency. From 30 Hz to 20 Khz. What I usually do with kick and bass is figure out what the bass has that the kick doesnt and vice versa. I then exaggerate those differences and make them even more apparent so that I can fit the two elements together. It usually works out nicely and I have a kick and bass that blend together. The problem now is that I have not been able to identify any differences because the kick and bass are so close and just do not want to blend. I have even proved this by bringing them up on their own spectrum viewers and seen literally no difference. I have nowhere to go from here. I have tried typically reducing 400 Hz on the kick and raising that on the bass but there are more clashes happening below 100 Hz that I cannot seem to clear up. What are some suggestions? I guess what I am asking is what would you do if your kick and bass occupied the exact same frequencies? Where would be the first place your instincts would tell you to go and boost/cut each track? thanks 4 any help in advance Dave |
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
kick and bass too similar in frequency. Don't know how to differentiate the 2
It's really hard for any of us to tell without hearing your particular track.
Don't be fooled too much by whatever meter you're looking at too. Your kick drum doesn't have much going on in the 20K range most likely. Before you do anything, try making room for them in the mix with the other instruments. Try simply turning up one instrument and down another and see how the whole mix sounds and if it helps your problem. Unpatch every compressor you are using and disable all the eq. Start really fresh instead of patching in a whole lot of stuff and resorting to using too much eq. Too much eq sounds phasey anyway, so it;s good habit to get out of if you're in it. In a very general sense, my first instinct is that I'd "thin out" the very low frequencies in the bass guitar and allow it to sit "Above" the kick slightly in freq range. Let the kick have the lowest part of the spectrum and the bass to sit above that. It's silly to talk about which exact frequencies, but I;d say below 100hz you could cut a bit in the bass guitar, and bring out some low mids in the 250hz range that _might_ make it stand out with being bright. 1-3k can help it cut though, but can mask the clicky part of the kick drum if you have that kind of sound going or like it (i don't). Its really hard to tell without hearing it. I hope a little of this helps. P h i l i p ______________________________ "I'm too ****ing busy and vice-versa" - Dorothy Parker |
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
|
kick and bass too similar in frequency. Don't know how to differentiate
|
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
|
kick and bass too similar in frequency. Don't know how todifferentiate the 2
"Mike" read this in the National Enquirer :
The other possibility would be to use an exicter or maybe a chorus on the bass which would add higher harmonics. Or use a speaker/amp sim to make it somewhat more focused in the midrange. Or maybe use a doubler on the bass to make it big without being stacked on top of the drum. -- TAPKAE http://tapkae.com "We're the cleanup crew for parties we were too young to attend" (Kevin Gilbert) |
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
|
kick and bass too similar in frequency. Don't know how to differentiate the 2
i'll second what the others have said. it really comes down to the
type of music you're mixing. sorting out the low end is really tricky. unless you've got both a sine-wave-sub-bass and an 808 kick, you don't have as much going on there as you think. it's quite possible that you're mixing with a sub and the crossover is set such that you're not hearing the low mids very clearly. i don't know, my main point is that you should consider your monitoring situation. sometimes i like to use NS10s (no sub) to try and sort these things out -- no, you cant hear anything below 100Hz no these things, but that causes you to focus more on the lower mids, which i think have a very important relationship to the feel of the bass. anyway, here are some thoughts: * i like to try and get as tight and defined as sound as possible so i focus on definition of the harmonics of the bass sound (assuming the bass is an important instrument in the mix - which in my case it usually is). by the way, i almost always end up cutting low end out of both the kick and the bass guitar to get things tighter down there. you mentioned cutting one and boosting the other -- what i'm suggesting is that you try cutting both. * are the attacks of the kick and bass clobbering each other timing wise? if so, you may need to edit the kick a little or use a compressor with sidechain input to lock to the two together better. if you want to know more about how to do this, search r.a.p or email me. * there's a product by SPL called the Transient Designer which can come in very handy in situations like this. you could use it like an expander to increase the attack on either instrument or trim it back if that's what's causing them to conflict. also, you could take some of the sustain out of the kick drum if that's what's muddying up the bass. good luck & have fun. -tE SAN FRANCISCO SOUNDWORKS www.sfsoundworks.com 415.503.1110 vox __________________________________________________ _______ Introducing the first SSL 9000 mix room in San Francisco (David) wrote in message . com... I am currently mixing this song and am slowly coming to terms with the fact that I will never be able to blend the kick with the bass. It took me long enough to realize that they were both nearly identical in frequency. From 30 Hz to 20 Khz. What I usually do with kick and bass is figure out what the bass has that the kick doesnt and vice versa. I then exaggerate those differences and make them even more apparent so that I can fit the two elements together. It usually works out nicely and I have a kick and bass that blend together. The problem now is that I have not been able to identify any differences because the kick and bass are so close and just do not want to blend. I have even proved this by bringing them up on their own spectrum viewers and seen literally no difference. I have nowhere to go from here. I have tried typically reducing 400 Hz on the kick and raising that on the bass but there are more clashes happening below 100 Hz that I cannot seem to clear up. What are some suggestions? I guess what I am asking is what would you do if your kick and bass occupied the exact same frequencies? Where would be the first place your instincts would tell you to go and boost/cut each track? thanks 4 any help in advance Dave |
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
|
kick and bass too similar in frequency. Don't know how to differentiate the 2
Ok here is my two cents. I used to put kick at 80 and bass at 120, but I
started to not like that sound. I realized they both sound great in the sub 100 department, but the bass can drown out the attack of the kick. So, mult the kick and send it and the bass to a compressor with a moderately fast attack time (believe it or not, the fast attack time will actually make the kicks transient punchier) and there you have it. You can have the bass and kick at the same chest thumping sub low frequency, and the kick will be heard every time. Done. Steve |
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
|
kick and bass too similar in frequency. Don't know how to differentiate
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1059825625k@trad... In article writes: The problem now is that I have not been able to identify any differences because the kick and bass are so close and just do not want to blend. I have even proved this by bringing them up on their own spectrum viewers and seen literally no difference. I've noticed that really good mixes (or bass players for that matter) don't play right on top of the bass drum but usually just a few milliseconds behind it. I'd try moving the bass track back a few milliseconds (either by nudging the track or a delay set to 100% wet) and see it that helped. |
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
|
kick and bass too similar in frequency. Don't know how to differentiate
(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1059825625k@trad...
In article writes: The problem now is that I have not been able to identify any differences because the kick and bass are so close and just do not want to blend. I have even proved this by bringing them up on their own spectrum viewers and seen literally no difference. Sounds to me like they blend perfectly. Does the bass play just one note throughout the song? Does the drummer have some magic touch with his foot that he gets a range of notes out of the drum? What are some suggestions? I guess what I am asking is what would you do if your kick and bass occupied the exact same frequencies? I'd re-record the bass track and tell the player to play something more interesting instead of the same note all the time, right on top of the kick drum. Or maybe the song just doesn't need both a bass and a kick. Have you tried simply mixing without one or the other? But you can try searching around for the fundamental note of the kick drum with a graphic equalizer, surrounding that frequency, cutting as much as you can couple of octaves either side of it, and then boosting somewhere in the 1.5-3 kHz region to get some "definition" on the kick. Then see what you can do with the bass. Thanks to both of you.... Mike the bass is playing about 7 different notes throughout the whole song. What I meant to say was that it wasn't EXACTLY the same as the kick, it was just so similar that something needed to be done with EQ to make them fit together more. I've heard of people using EQ to get the kick and bass to gel. I just didn't know where to go and boost and cut each one to make them sit together. I guess there's no typical place to go and boost and cut apart from cutting 350 on the kick and boosting it at 350 on the bass. I might try high passing the kick at 70 Hz and letting the bass occupy all the deeper lows. I'm not particularly after the sound of the kick being deeper like some people prefer. That's not the sound I hear on my favorite mixes. I want the kick to PUNCH out of the bass track without the kick being too loud. I will also try nudging the bass back a bit to see if it helps Thanks fo the tips Dave |
|
#11
|
|||
|
|||
|
kick and bass too similar in frequency. Don't know how to differentiate
I think that's the point of mixing. To get experience. No one here can
hear it, so it's kinda up to you. A couple of things to think about, other than what specific eq to use. Listen to the kick and determine which characteristics it exhibits most. There are at least two characteristics involved. One is the THWUMP of the air rushing from the head (if it's got a hole, or THUMP with a closed head), and the other is the click/clack or smack the beater has on the head. And I'll get bashed if I don't mention the shell sound itself, but let's work with reasonable. Since the bass is going to have a fairly consistent (we hope) performance with nicely fingered notes and good pitch, then it's a matter of finding which of the two characteristics you think you need to get something going with the bass. The beater or the drum, and certainly some mix thereof, if you'd had two mics on the kick! If you can't find something to differentiate them in terms of EQ and looking for special traits, then another option is to change the times they present themselves, meaning that perhaps the drums could use a little 'verb and you leave the bass alone, or something similar to that. You have three dimensions to work within, you just have to try them all. Again, it's your ears and your fingers doing the walkin'. -- Roger W. Norman SirMusic Studio 301-585-4681 "David" wrote in message om... (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1059825625k@trad... In article writes: The problem now is that I have not been able to identify any differences because the kick and bass are so close and just do not want to blend. I have even proved this by bringing them up on their own spectrum viewers and seen literally no difference. Sounds to me like they blend perfectly. Does the bass play just one note throughout the song? Does the drummer have some magic touch with his foot that he gets a range of notes out of the drum? What are some suggestions? I guess what I am asking is what would you do if your kick and bass occupied the exact same frequencies? I'd re-record the bass track and tell the player to play something more interesting instead of the same note all the time, right on top of the kick drum. Or maybe the song just doesn't need both a bass and a kick. Have you tried simply mixing without one or the other? But you can try searching around for the fundamental note of the kick drum with a graphic equalizer, surrounding that frequency, cutting as much as you can couple of octaves either side of it, and then boosting somewhere in the 1.5-3 kHz region to get some "definition" on the kick. Then see what you can do with the bass. Thanks to both of you.... Mike the bass is playing about 7 different notes throughout the whole song. What I meant to say was that it wasn't EXACTLY the same as the kick, it was just so similar that something needed to be done with EQ to make them fit together more. I've heard of people using EQ to get the kick and bass to gel. I just didn't know where to go and boost and cut each one to make them sit together. I guess there's no typical place to go and boost and cut apart from cutting 350 on the kick and boosting it at 350 on the bass. I might try high passing the kick at 70 Hz and letting the bass occupy all the deeper lows. I'm not particularly after the sound of the kick being deeper like some people prefer. That's not the sound I hear on my favorite mixes. I want the kick to PUNCH out of the bass track without the kick being too loud. I will also try nudging the bass back a bit to see if it helps Thanks fo the tips Dave |
| Reply |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Forum | |||
| rec.audio.car FAQ (Part 4/5) | Car Audio | |||
Linear Mode
