Fella" wrote
JBorg wrote:



Maybe you should also try using pwr conditioner on your system
if you haven't already.

I have tried the PSaudio ultimate outlet and transparent XL something something
or other but they all increased bass with the amplifier so back they went.


That's an interesting decision, ah I mean -- situation.



I do admit that I have outlet problems, my system was in the big living room
before meshed with the HT system and I had recently extended a grounded source
to it but the little toddler we have grew up in the past months and now is very
much interested with everything that I touch, etc, so we had to move the highend
system to a back room away from the little bugger and there is no grounded
outlet there! In a way your were right, (or was it some other poster) that
instead of paying 2000 euros for a transparet conditioner I should call in some
electrician and have him do something about the outlet in the hifi room. Might
cost less, though around these parts of the woods it is not a given.


How's Finland today !


-5! Lot's o snow from the weekend.


Thanks Fella and drive careful...........

"Fella" wrote in message
...
JBorg wrote:

Fella" wrote


Poor old ****borg, back to his ****borg manners when debunked, yet once
again.

When will you learn, ****borg?



Well Fella, do keep us updated on your homestyle dbt.

Sure. We will go into a lab soon with amps, the results will end up in
a thesis, etc, too, so I'll keep you guys posted.

I will though, eventually move on with this ABX, etc, stuff, as it seems
silly that one should prove the existence of differences between given
equipment. Trucks are different then each other, cars are, speakers are,
paper, pens, computers, shoes, you anme it, just about ANYTHING, so why
not amps, cd players, etc.

Because they all have one job, to convey an audio signal without audible
distortion. IN the case of SS amps this has been a trivial matter for
decades, despite what the chartlatans tell you. In the case of CD players
since they are deoding digital information, they have been able to
accomplish that with absolute precision for decades.

I'm sure Ferstler,
malicious as he is, is interested. Are you using your favorite and
familiar
music?

Yes ofcourse. Since I wouldn't be listening pink noise from any component
at anytime.

You mentioned using a 7 sec. excerpt of a particular song, what
happen if you listen much longer than that particularly next when you
begin
comparing amps or interconnects

Well there are occasions when I am auditioning a piece of equipment and I
start listening with an investigative approach but find myself lost in
music for hours on end.

(of equal competents, of course.)?

Did you components? Why should I test equal (same?) components? Besides,
if the make and/or model are different, I doubt any two component would be
equal.

Doubt all you want. The DBT's that have been done in the past show that
properly functioning amps and CD players sound the same, when using only
one's ears. That you doubt this is evidence that the charlatans and
advertising people have found another pigeon.

Fella said:

I do admit that I have outlet problems, my system was in the big living
room before meshed with the HT system and I had recently extended a
grounded source to it but the little toddler we have grew up in the past
months and now is very much interested with everything that I touch,
etc, so we had to move the highend system to a back room away from the
little bugger and there is no grounded outlet there! In a way your were
right, (or was it some other poster) that instead of paying 2000 euros
for a transparet conditioner I should call in some electrician and have
him do something about the outlet in the hifi room. Might cost less,
though around these parts of the woods it is not a given.

I made a dedicated group especially for audio.
Made a remarkable difference. Sighted, not blind.
You don't suppose I'm foolish enough to work on 230V Ac blindly?

;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Arny Krueger" said:

"Fella" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:


power is not
distributed to the piece of equipment by just a power cord. Power
comes to the equipment via an integrated system stretching all the
way back to the power plant.


Now who would have thought of that!?

Just about everybody with a brain, Fella. Obviously, this is a new one on
you!

My my, what insight! What
investigative genius, awesome! Are you sure that the "system" really
is "integrated" there now? Maybe it's a system with no integration?
Maybe it's an integrated network but not a system? You just have to
check this one out. Take a fork for instance, go to the nearest wall
socket do some investigative researh for us, won't you?

It seems like the thought unhinged you, Fella.


In anycase, that you figured that one out, I repeat, awesome,
flabbergasting. And to think that all this time I thought that each
outlet in my house had a little power plant behind it. That that's the
way we got electricity. "Power comes to the equipment via an
integrated system stretching all the way back to the power plant." He
says!

And your point is???????


Had anyone else figured this one out? Torresits ..err..
, azmacowagowan perhaps? How about mickeymcmickey?

Lots of people have made this point. Wanna finally deal with it, Fellla?

Changing the last 4 or six feet of this system is like spitting
in the wind unless that last few feet is really horrific.

Ehm, mister genius, please enlighten us, is it so that water comes to
our homes also "via an integrated system stretching all the way back
to the" reservoir??? That there are np lakes just behind our kitchen
walls? And just think, some silly folks put on a filter at the end of
their tap. To clean up the impurities. The water comes to their taps
ALLLLLL THE WAY back from the plant, travels ALLLL them pipes and
they think they can clean it up in the last few inches!

Not a bad metaphor.

Can you make sense out of your own metaphor Fella?

A piece of
equipment that is adversely audibly affected by small changes in the
power system is a low quality piece of equipment.

This is law no:12341 of borg audio, thus spake the ****borg.

Are you just going to posture away this whole post, Fella?

Art, Borg and Fella are like race car drivers who obsess
over paint color as a means for improving handling.

My my, what an applicable, impeccable analogy, what insight, yet
again! Endless genius ..

Seems like you have been cornered and you have nothing cogent to say, Fella.
Sad.

Thanks for admitting you don't have any answer, Arnold.

BTW you lost.

Again.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Ruud Broens" wrote in message
...

:
...or take an Audio Quattro with spiked wheels...really works :-)
Rudy



Is that an integrated system?

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Fella" wrote in message
...
JBorg wrote:

Fella" wrote


Poor old ****borg, back to his ****borg manners when debunked, yet once
again.

When will you learn, ****borg?



Well Fella, do keep us updated on your homestyle dbt.

Sure. We will go into a lab soon with amps, the results will end up in
a thesis, etc, too, so I'll keep you guys posted.

I will though, eventually move on with this ABX, etc, stuff, as it seems
silly that one should prove the existence of differences between given
equipment. Trucks are different then each other, cars are, speakers are,
paper, pens, computers, shoes, you anme it, just about ANYTHING, so why
not amps, cd players, etc.

Because they all have one job, to convey an audio signal without audible
distortion. IN the case of SS amps this has been a trivial matter for
decades, despite what the chartlatans tell you. In the case of CD players
since they are deoding digital information, they have been able to
accomplish that with absolute precision for decades.

I'm sure Ferstler,
malicious as he is, is interested. Are you using your favorite and
familiar
music?

Yes ofcourse. Since I wouldn't be listening pink noise from any component
at anytime.

You mentioned using a 7 sec. excerpt of a particular song, what
happen if you listen much longer than that particularly next when you
begin
comparing amps or interconnects

Well there are occasions when I am auditioning a piece of equipment and I
start listening with an investigative approach but find myself lost in
music for hours on end.

(of equal competents, of course.)?

Did you components? Why should I test equal (same?) components? Besides,
if the make and/or model are different, I doubt any two component would
be equal.

Doubt all you want. The DBT's that have been done in the past show that
properly functioning amps and CD players sound the same, when using only
one's ears. That you doubt this is evidence that the charlatans and
advertising people have found another pigeon.

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
ink.net...


Doubt all you want. The DBT's that have been done in the past show that
properly functioning amps and CD players sound the same, when using only
one's ears.

An absolutely false statement. The DBT's in the past used someone
else's ears.

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...
:
: "Ruud Broens" wrote in message
: ...
:
: :
: ...or take an Audio Quattro with spiked wheels...really works :-)
: Rudy
:
:
:
: Is that an integrated system?
:
It's a tunable system .. take out the traction control .. well, it's still a fine
car..
.. on - snow ??, what snow?? hehe
Rudy
on the road
sometimes

Ruud Broens" wrote
"Clyde Slick" wrote
: "Ruud Broens" wrote :
: :
: ...or take an Audio Quattro with spiked wheels...really works :-)
: Rudy
:
:
:
: Is that an integrated system?
:
It's a tunable system .. take out the traction control .. well, it's still a
fine
car..
.. on - snow ??, what snow?? hehe
Rudy
on the road
sometimes


I used to live in WA (2 yrs) where the snow would get up to knee
level. Three times on a busy winter days, I had my old beat up
car ( a Caddie) spun on me on a deserted intersection several
times. I felt like a helpless poodle inside. The more I did, the
worst it got. I haven't return since.

"JBorg" wrote in message
om...
:
: Ruud Broens" wrote
: "Clyde Slick" wrote
: : "Ruud Broens" wrote :
: : :
: : ...or take an Audio Quattro with spiked wheels...really works :-)
: : Rudy
: :
: :
: :
: : Is that an integrated system?
: :
: It's a tunable system .. take out the traction control .. well, it's still a
: fine
: car..
: .. on - snow ??, what snow?? hehe
: Rudy
: on the road
: sometimes
:
:
: I used to live in WA (2 yrs) where the snow would get up to knee
: level. Three times on a busy winter days, I had my old beat up
: car ( a Caddie) spun on me on a deserted intersection several
: times. I felt like a helpless poodle inside. The more I did, the
: worst it got. I haven't return since.
:
Parked in a 20 cm of snow/water sludge - that *is* a problem !
No traction at all, even the Audi would have problems, there
The solution in Sweden: go to the nearest bar, explain your problem,
3 or 4 guys will sit on the hood of your car (frontwheel drive)
....and away you go
arctic adv. inc,
Rudy

"Fella" wrote in message
...
Arny Krueger wrote:



Fella uses a lot of words to say absolutely nothing part dos.

Fella uses a lot of words to say absolutely nothing part uno.


Fella uses a lot of words to say absolutely nothing part tres.


Ok, the ****borg counts from one - to - three : he says : two .. one ..
three!

The ****borg wanted to show us his language skills. But the google
copy-paste squence went wrong.


We'll see.


See what? Ya ain't said nuttin' yet, bozo!

We'll see; Keep that gaping wIIIIde open asshole of yours gaping, stay
tuned, that is, I'm gonna send you the same horse I sent to mickmickey
down to his gloryhole post.

Delusions of granduer noted. BTW I just got my December issue of
Stereophile today and on page 41 is a picture of a Trad speaker using Scan
Speak woofers that look exactly like those in those second rate Sonus
Faber's you get such a bunny in your pants over. They also use the top of
the line Scan Speak ring radiator.


Yea yea, I know, you will note something about now. Ok, noted.

I note you are ignorant and boastful about audio.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Paul Dormer a écrit :
BTW I thought you were ****ting me about the JM Lab clones.. then I
discovered there *are* people out there cloning JM Labs! Was that for
real? Do you have any pics of it (in the nude preferably)?

http://www.exquisiteaudio.ca/

Now Lionel, you know the DIYer can't possibly recreate the design of a big
time speaker company like JM Lab or Sonus Faber. Fella told us so.

Sander deWaal wrote:

Fella said:


I do admit that I have outlet problems, my system was in the big living
room before meshed with the HT system and I had recently extended a
grounded source to it but the little toddler we have grew up in the past
months and now is very much interested with everything that I touch,
etc, so we had to move the highend system to a back room away from the
little bugger and there is no grounded outlet there! In a way your were
right, (or was it some other poster) that instead of paying 2000 euros
for a transparet conditioner I should call in some electrician and have
him do something about the outlet in the hifi room. Might cost less,
though around these parts of the woods it is not a given.


I made a dedicated group especially for audio.
Made a remarkable difference. Sighted, not blind.
You don't suppose I'm foolish enough to work on 230V Ac blindly?

;-)


When's the next time you are due in helsinkin finland?

Michael McKelvy wrote:


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
Paul Dormer a écrit :
BTW I thought you were ****ting me about the JM Lab clones.. then I
discovered there *are* people out there cloning JM Labs! Was that for
real? Do you have any pics of it (in the nude preferably)?

http://www.exquisiteaudio.ca/

Now Lionel, you know the DIYer can't possibly recreate the design of a big
time speaker company like JM Lab or Sonus Faber. Fella told us so.

Perhaps hes hasn't spent enough time on DIYers' NGs.

I have copied a JMLab design : the "Daline"... But with 4 cheap chinese
drivers and 2 mid-priced Norwegian tweeters.
I will *never* pretend that they sound like the original but Scott LaFaro's
bass have nearly the timber of a real double-bass. :-D

Thank you Mr Mahul. ;-)

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message






I give it 24 hours till the Kroo**** starts flying.


I'm 98% Fecal matter, note. I guess I'm about to explode Art, since its
probably been at least 8 hours since they changed my Depends. ;-)



Get the **** outta here now !!

Michael McKelvy wrote:

"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Paul Dormer a écrit :

BTW I thought you were ****ting me about the JM Lab clones.. then I
discovered there *are* people out there cloning JM Labs! Was that for
real? Do you have any pics of it (in the nude preferably)?

http://www.exquisiteaudio.ca/


Now Lionel, you know the DIYer can't possibly recreate the design of a big
time speaker company like JM Lab or Sonus Faber. Fella told us so.



And you eventually agreed. This was your first position, that a DIYer
*can* recreate an amati homage, for instance (big time LOL!). And then
you admitted that yourself that that it was not possible:

Taken for the thread: "Krueger's Attempt to Trash & Distort Legitimate
Posts" :

Michael McKelvy wrote:


"Fella" wrote in message
Besides, in the same thread you pollute: "I stand by my statement
that a
knowledgeable person could replicate the sound of SF." Yet AGAIN you
contradict yourself. You dumdum baffoon.

So? You never thought about something and revised your position
slightly?"

"Fella" wrote in message
...
Michael McKelvy wrote:

"Lionel" wrote in message
...

Paul Dormer a écrit :

BTW I thought you were ****ting me about the JM Lab clones.. then I
discovered there *are* people out there cloning JM Labs! Was that for
real? Do you have any pics of it (in the nude preferably)?

http://www.exquisiteaudio.ca/


Now Lionel, you know the DIYer can't possibly recreate the design of a
big time speaker company like JM Lab or Sonus Faber. Fella told us so.

And you eventually agreed.

Not exactly. I was talking about one specific instance where the drivers
were propriatary.

This was your first position, that a DIYer
*can* recreate an amati homage, for instance (big time LOL!).

Having seen Stereophile's reviews of some of the SF systems, it should not
be that hard to equal or exceed in some cases the designs of some big time
companies. It would take someone with better than average skill and better
than average test equipment.

And then
you admitted that yourself that that it was not possible:

Due to one specific driver used in one of their designs.

Taken for the thread: "Krueger's Attempt to Trash & Distort Legitimate
Posts" :

Michael McKelvy wrote:


"Fella" wrote in message
Besides, in the same thread you pollute: "I stand by my statement
that a
knowledgeable person could replicate the sound of SF." Yet AGAIN you
contradict yourself. You dumdum baffoon.

So? You never thought about something and revised your position
slightly?"

Inability to understand the word "slightly" noted.

The fact is, that there are DIY systems that equal or rival some of the best
systems from the companies that do not make their own drivers.

There are kits, that if the designs are done exactly as the designer
intended, can easily equal finished systems.

"JBorg" wrote in message
m...

Clyde Slick" wrote in message
"Fella" wrote in message




Whatever the reason, in terms of design, materials used, corners cut,
priorities taken/given, etc, equipment will vary from one another.

I agree with you. This is a consumer decision whether to purchase
a new cord to replace the stock cord. All that matters is if you hear a
difference you like, and if you think the price is worth it.


Full point.

With regard to comparing cords, among the minimum req. I assume
would be that they'd be of the same gauge and length.
The length is not really an issue, the extra circuit is. For the lengths
that are common for power cords, unless there is gross mismatch in gauge,
which is highly unlikely, then a few extra inches is not going to make any
difference.

"JBorg" wrote in message
m...

Arny Krueger wrote
JBorg wrote
Clyde wrote
"Fella wrote


Whatever the reason, in terms of design, materials used, corners
cut, priorities taken/given, etc, equipment will vary from one
another.

I agree with you. This is a consumer decision whether to purchase
a new cord to replace the stock cord. All that matters is if you
hear a difference you like, and if you think the price is worth it.

Full point.

Full o'crap.

With regard to comparing cords, among the minimum req. I assume
would be that they'd be of the same gauge and length.


Art, Borg and Fella, one of two most important things that all three of
you bozos


I was referring to the requirement if homestyle dbt is done for the cords.
You are the one who always say that when in doubt, you have to dbt this
and dbt that.

seem to show zero understanding of is the fact that power is not
distributed to the piece of equipment by just a power cord. Power comes
to the equipment via an integrated system stretching all the way back to
the power plant. Changing the last 4 or six feet of this system is like
spitting in the wind unless that last few feet is really horrific.

The other thing you three zombies seem to show zero understanding of is
that resistance to various characteristics of the power system is a
feature of all audio gear, electronic equipment, and electrical
equipment. A piece of equipment that is adversely audibly affected by
small changes in the power system is a low quality piece of equipment.

Most of the differences between a high end power cord and a regular power
cord are eyewash. Art, Borg and Fella are like race car drivers who
obsess over paint color as a means for improving handling. By wasting
their time and effort on this trivia, they miss out on making substantial
changes that might actually improve sound quality.


Fortunately, this is not about what your eyes see like you think it
should. It's
about what your ears hear. I never bought cables or inteconnects because
of
their looks (or brand).


Then the objections of those who don't like doing comparisons where they
can't see what the DUT is are invalid. All you need is your ears.

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
ink.net

Then the objections of those who don't like doing comparisons where
they can't see what the DUT is are invalid. All you need is your
ears.

Here's how these *normals* work.

First they say that its all about listening and listening pleasure.

So we suggest they do tests based on just listening.

Then they tell us that just listening is very unnatural and uncomfortable to
them.

But, didn't they just say that its all about listening and listening
pleasure?

Go figure!

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
ink.net


Then the objections of those who don't like doing comparisons where
they can't see what the DUT is are invalid. All you need is your
ears.


Here's how these *normals* work.

First they say that its all about listening and listening pleasure.

So we suggest they do tests based on just listening.

Then they tell us that just listening is very unnatural and uncomfortable to
them.

But, didn't they just say that its all about listening and listening
pleasure?

Go figure!



So how does the borg logic work then, ****borg? I test two power cords:
"Noooooooooo fellaaaaaa, they must have same gauge, same length, same
coloooooooooor, same design, no circuits, you should know that by now
fellaaaaaaaa, yer test is invaaalid fellaaaa" Same with speaker
cables. Amps.

Anyways, during the dbt test with power cords I noticed that the act of
participating in such a test is a source of anxiety, stresssssss. That's
what you are trying to twist about the observation of the "normals". In
fact the stress factor is alone is a sufficient factor to negate the
results of any testing with sensitive people. I am doing these tests to
see if I can beat some people at their own game (more on this later )
but I would never base my decision of purchase on such tests, the
pleasure factor is much more important.

Now mcmickey, the one who reads about sonus faber in stereophile reviews
and on this information alone condemns the brand as "second rate" will
of course agree with you. But that doesn't add anything positive to your
cockroach credibility.

"Ruud Broens" said:

Parked in a 20 cm of snow/water sludge - that *is* a problem !
No traction at all, even the Audi would have problems, there
The solution in Sweden: go to the nearest bar, explain your problem,
3 or 4 guys will sit on the hood of your car (frontwheel drive)
...and away you go
arctic adv. inc,

Solution in Scotland: go to the nearest pub, explain your problem,
prepare for homeric laughter, and have some with the lads until the
wee hours.

Problem solved (at least temporarily)

;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Fella said:

I made a dedicated group especially for audio.
Made a remarkable difference. Sighted, not blind.
You don't suppose I'm foolish enough to work on 230V Ac blindly?

When's the next time you are due in helsinkin finland?

I hope never, but I can send you a schematic (=:

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Sander deWaal wrote:

Fella said:


I made a dedicated group especially for audio.
Made a remarkable difference. Sighted, not blind.
You don't suppose I'm foolish enough to work on 230V Ac blindly?


When's the next time you are due in helsinkin finland?


I hope never,


Why do you say that? At certain (though unpredictable) windows in time
helsinki and finland in general is quite beautiful. It is so that this
place has an untouched, clean sort of a beauty of its own. I have been
to so many places in the world and have found that almost every place
has it's own flavours, colors, tastes to intake and learn to appreciate.

but I can send you a schematic (=:


Please do so if you have something ready. Here is the email:
.. For now. Thank you very many in advance!

Just as a reminder: The outlet I am forced to use is not grounded. In
fact, the speakers have this electrical buzz coming from them (that does
not increase or decrease with volume at all) because of this. And
touching the amp or cd player always gives one a snap! These were solved
in the big room but it is not practical for me to extend any of the
grounded outlets all the way to this room.

"Arny Krueger" said:

Then the objections of those who don't like doing comparisons where
they can't see what the DUT is are invalid. All you need is your
ears.

Here's how these *normals* work.

First they say that its all about listening and listening pleasure.

If I may speak for the so-called "normals" :
That's correct.
Listening to music is a pastime, for pleasure indeed.
Add a glass of wine/beer/cognac/Jolt Cola.

So we suggest they do tests based on just listening.

"We"??

In my lab, I do tests.
In my living room, I listen for pleasure.

Get the difference?

Then they tell us that just listening is very unnatural and uncomfortable to
them.

No, doing DBTs is very unnatural and uncomfortable.
Do you listen with an ABX box in your hand to sound snippets, jotting
down the results, for pleasure?

Oh well, I guess you do.

But, didn't they just say that its all about listening and listening
pleasure?

Yep. Don't see any contradiction here.

Listening is not "doing tests based on listening" .

Go figure!

Couldn't have said it any better myself. ;-)


--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Fella said:

When's the next time you are due in helsinkin finland?

I hope never,

Why do you say that?

I don't like to travel and I don't like snow.
Watching pictures from others that went there on holidayis enough
excitement for me ;-)

Finland *is* beautiful, I agree.


but I can send you a schematic (=:

Please do so if you have something ready. Here is the email:
.. For now. Thank you very many in advance!

That was actually a joke.
A schematic for a dedicated audio power line is exactly the same as
for any other power line.
Find a good electrician (they must be around, even in Finland *grin*
), and ask him to do it.
Make sure he uses the right cabling (we call it "VMVK" cable, a
shielded ground cable with grey insulation), and make sure the socket
is connected to ground.
If he's any good at this, you'll end up with the same thing I did.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

George M. Middius said:

Couldn't have said it any better myself. ;-)

Maybe you couldn't, but being a Normal, you would have flushed afterward.

Isn't the ";-)" the international symbol for flushing then?

;-) == This is for Krooger, who is no doubt weeping at the thought of
all that wasted food.

I think not, he has too mUcH "fun ;-)", LoT;'S !

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
"Arny Krueger" said:

Then the objections of those who don't like doing comparisons where
they can't see what the DUT is are invalid. All you need is your
ears.

Here's how these *normals* work.

First they say that its all about listening and listening pleasure.

If I may speak for the so-called "normals" :
That's correct.
Listening to music is a pastime, for pleasure indeed.
Add a glass of wine/beer/cognac/Jolt Cola.

So we suggest they do tests based on just listening.

"We"??

Those of who think that listening comparisons ought to be as bias free as
possible.

In my lab, I do tests.
In my living room, I listen for pleasure.

Get the difference?

Yes, listening for pleasure is an unreliable way to determine subtle
differences.

Then they tell us that just listening is very unnatural and uncomfortable
to
them.

No, doing DBTs is very unnatural and uncomfortable.
Do you listen with an ABX box in your hand to sound snippets, jotting
down the results, for pleasure?

Only when trying to determine subtle differences.


But, didn't they just say that its all about listening and listening
pleasure?

Yep. Don't see any contradiction here.

Listening is not "doing tests based on listening" .

Comparisons are though.

"Paul Dormer" wrote in message
...
"Fella" emitted :

We did a double-blind test on audioquest 3.3 ac power cord attached to
the densen amp as against a stock power cord, just yesterday evening. I
was the test subject. A friend helped.

While I was away from the hifi room the friend changed, or not, the cord
employed (all during the amp volume was not touched, the amp is always
on a ready to use state, the only on-off switch with it is in the back)
and wrote what he did to his paper, as in, 1: AQ käytössä (finnish for
"AQ in use") He then leaved the room and went to the adjacent room,
closed the door. We had agreed that he makes always sounds of plugging
and unplugging from wall outlet regardles of changing or not. Also, he
takes exactly one minute to do so, then leaves the room. I never saw his
face all during the test (lest I sense what he did ) I came over from
the living room to the hifi room and pressed play (the number 7 on the
remote to be exact). I could not see the outlet or the cord in between
because we covered it all up with the gigantic pillows from the living
room couch (yes yes, I have an understanding wife ) ...

Now what the AQ power cord does to the densen is that it makes it a
rock-n-roll jukebox bass thumping and pumping machine, as opposed to it
being this fluid, sweet midrange romantic type of amp otherwise. So for
all practical purposes my friend could have left the light on in the
room, or off, and I was to determine that.

We did the experiment 15 times, I new all without a mistake.

I believe you... a million (well... three or four) Borgs wouldn't.


I believe he heard a difference. I just don't accept that it was because of
a power cord alone. Either the original one was grossly flawed or the
circuit on the other one made a differnce.

I recently asked Nousaine to give me a example of the practical worth
of double blind tests by asking him which of three nominated
amplifiers would work best with my speakers (a DBT is impractical for
me to do myself). Seeing as he is such a font of knowledge, I expected
a snappy answer... he vamoosed as quickly as you can say "****in'
coward!!"

A few days ago, I again asked about an amplifier to use with my
speakers.. the Marantz PM7200 to be specific. The retarded ABX
contingent once again had naff all productive things to say, busy as
they were discussing their fecal obsessions etc, proving once again
the lack of *practical* worth of these supposed "tests". Where are the
results when you need them?


Inability to use your own means to conduct what is a fairly easy comparison,
noted.

Anyway.. the Marantz is technically a very good amp, it should sound
identical to the similarly competent Audiolab 8000A it was replacing
... right?? Wrong. The Marantz sounds completely different. Suddenly
I'm rewarded with prodigious amounts of (not the tightest) bass. That
I did not expect. I didn't know these JM Labs were capable of going so
low. And playing the remastered "On Land" by Brian Eno... with the
Audiolab you can hear the tape tracks 'unfolding' into the mix on the
first cut. With the Marantz that detail is severely diminished.


Were the levels matched?
How do the frequency responses compare?

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
news : "Ruud Broens" said:
:
: Parked in a 20 cm of snow/water sludge - that *is* a problem !
: No traction at all, even the Audi would have problems, there
: The solution in Sweden: go to the nearest bar, explain your problem,
: 3 or 4 guys will sit on the hood of your car (frontwheel drive)
: ...and away you go
: arctic adv. inc,
:
: Solution in Scotland: go to the nearest pub, explain your problem,
: prepare for homeric laughter, and have some with the lads until the
: wee hours.
:
: Problem solved (at least temporarily)
:
: ;-)
:
: --
: Sander de Waal
: " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Yeah, Audio Q, just like that, eh, the Pinkerton tales
cfs
Rudy

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" said:

Then the objections of those who don't like doing comparisons where
they can't see what the DUT is are invalid. All you need is your
ears.

Here's how these *normals* work.

First they say that its all about listening and listening pleasure.
So we suggest they do tests based on just listening.

"We"??

Inability to perceive popular support for reliable listening tests noted.

In my lab, I do tests.

Nahh, you just fiddle.

In my living room, I listen for pleasure.

Inability to make a room serve more than one purpose noted.

Get the difference?

Your lack of ability to do simple things is well known, Sander.

Then they tell us that just listening is very unnatural and
uncomfortable to them.

No, doing DBTs is very unnatural and uncomfortable.

Right, because you fear they tell you things you don't want to know.

Do you listen with an ABX box in your hand to sound snippets, jotting
down the results, for pleasure?

Inability to perceive how PCABX works despite free software downloads noted.

Oh well, I guess you do.

Sander, I get great pleasure from finding out reliable information. If it
means that I have to do some tests that are a little work, so be it.

But, didn't they just say that its all about listening and listening
pleasure?

Yep. Don't see any contradiction here.

That's because you are congenitally unable to think deeply, Sander.

Listening is not "doing tests based on listening" .

Seeing isn't the same thing as doing tests based on seeing, either.
Obviously Sander, you can't figure out the reason for that, either.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

In my living room, I listen for pleasure.


Inability to make a room serve more than one purpose noted.


Seriously now, do you really expect to get anywhere with this kind of
bull****?



Sander, I get great pleasure from finding out reliable information.


The abx/dbt tests are NOT reliable because of the stress factor they
impose upon humans.

Krueger, seems you have dedicated your life to this borg cause, but you
will NEVER accomplish anything. It is way too obvious from your
noted-noted-noted crap stupidity, from your disorganized, malfunctional,
neglected and UGLY website, from your anti-social hate mongering
attitude and from your irrelevant approach to the subject matter at hand
in the first place. You are a bitter, dull, dumb borg, a ****borg, and
you will always be that. Sad.

Paul Dormer wrote:

"Michael McKelvy" emitted :

BTW I thought you were ****ting me about the JM Lab clones.. then I
discovered there *are* people out there cloning JM Labs! Was that for
real? Do you have any pics of it (in the nude preferably)?

http://www.exquisiteaudio.ca/

Now Lionel, you know the DIYer can't possibly recreate the design of a big
time speaker company like JM Lab or Sonus Faber. Fella told us so.

Assuming you had the Focal JM Lab designs in your hands including
crossover, can you buy the matched W-sandwich drivers and inverted
tweeters (Be and regular flavour) required to build them?

Yes it was possible up to this summer when JMLab stopped to supply DIY
market (like other famous manufacturers : Audax, Cabasse, Dynaudio...) :-(

Paul Dormer wrote:

"Michael McKelvy" emitted :


BTW I thought you were ****ting me about the JM Lab clones.. then I
discovered there *are* people out there cloning JM Labs! Was that for
real? Do you have any pics of it (in the nude preferably)?

http://www.exquisiteaudio.ca/

Now Lionel, you know the DIYer can't possibly recreate the design of a big
time speaker company like JM Lab or Sonus Faber. Fella told us so.


Assuming you had the Focal JM Lab designs in your hands including
crossover, can you buy the matched W-sandwich drivers and inverted
tweeters (Be and regular flavour) required to build them?


I'll answer that for mcmickey: Yes, exact copies can be built. No
problem. Even better speakers can be built. No sweat.




S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t
-----------------------------------
It's Grim down south..

"Fella" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

In my living room, I listen for pleasure.

Inability to make a room serve more than one purpose noted.

Seriously now, do you really expect to get anywhere with this kind of
bull****?

It points out how rigid you *normals* seem to be.

Sander has explicitly claimed that a listening test can never be done in a
living room.

This is of course totally ludicrous. More than half of all the ABX tests
I've participated in were done in living rooms.

Sander, I get great pleasure from finding out reliable information.

The abx/dbt tests are NOT reliable because of the stress factor they
impose upon humans.

Inability to notice that any listening test introduces a similar or
identical stress factor noted.

Krueger, seems you have dedicated your life to this borg cause, but
you will NEVER accomplish anything.

Except of course I have already accomplished a great deal.

It is way too obvious from your
noted-noted-noted crap stupidity, from your disorganized,
malfunctional, neglected and UGLY website,

I never promised you a rose garden, Fella. BTW where can we see your
exquisitely beautiful personal web site(s)?

from your anti-social hate mongering attitude

That's something that you perceive all by your sweet little self, Fella.

Let's talk about your disgusting behavior Fella, such as your inabiltiy to
express yourself without gratuitous profanity.

and from your irrelevant approach to the subject matter at hand in the
first place.

Just because you can't see obvious connections Fella, isn't my problem.

You are a bitter, dull, dumb borg,

Fella, you are a childish and profane name-caller who has obviously
exhausted his mental capacity long ago.

a ****borg, and you will always be that. Sad.

Your own words condemn you, Fella.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Fella" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:


"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

In my living room, I listen for pleasure.


Inability to make a room serve more than one purpose noted.


Seriously now, do you really expect to get anywhere with this kind of
bull****?


It points out how rigid you *normals* seem to be.

Sander has explicitly claimed that a listening test can never be done in a
living room.

This is of course totally ludicrous. More than half of all the ABX tests
I've participated in were done in living rooms.


Sander, I get great pleasure from finding out reliable information.


The abx/dbt tests are NOT reliable because of the stress factor they
impose upon humans.


Inability to notice that any listening test introduces a similar or
identical stress factor noted.


When I was choosing my current amp I listened and tested 4 other makes.
Primare, krell, etc. I auditioned them for weeks and listened to them
casually, without any "test" in mind. It was only with the densen that I
started digging into the cd collection with "wonder how *this* sounds
with it!" kind of a *positive* excitement in mind. Again, no stress
whatsoever.

Try it sometimes, you might get an understanding of what recreational
home audiophile type of hobbying is all about.




Fella, you are a childish and profane name-caller

If I call you a ****borg it's because you are a ****borg, that you are a
****borg is not my fault. You were a ****borg even before I was born, it
seems. So, if you are butt-ugly, don't go acusing the mirror, try to
shape up. In other words, don't shoot the messenger.

who has obviously
exhausted his mental capacity long ago.


Ok, shall I start taking notes too?


And forget that debating trade ****e, it's all so obvious. You are
digging even deeper then cockroach credibility here. Shape up, a 60 year
old senile oldfart like you.. Your biggest accomplishment is that pcabx
website. You call yourself a computer consultant word has it. Yet you
don't even have the basic functionality of server-side-includes in that
stinking website of yours where copyrights are one saying 2001, the
other 2003, etc, for example. These are basic, elementary things, and
cutting pasting google based knowledge does nothing to cover them up.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


Sander deWaal said:

Couldn't have said it any better myself. ;-)

Maybe you couldn't, but being a Normal, you would have flushed
afterward.

Isn't the ";-)" the international symbol for flushing then?

Current theory connotes a different activity, at least within the Hive.


;-) == This is for Krooger, who is no doubt weeping at the thought of
all that wasted food.

I think not, he has too mUcH "fun ;-)", LoT;'S !

Yes, but isn't Krooger RAO's numero uno masochist? He enjoys being
miserable.


and his misery is robust!

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sander deWaal" wrote in message


In my living room, I listen for pleasure.

Inability to make a room serve more than one purpose noted.


Arny's main listening room is his bathroom. It is also his recording
studio, where he records a chorus of flushes.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message


Yes, but isn't Krooger RAO's numero uno masochist? He enjoys being
miserable.

Middius, you've been so fearful of me that you had me killfiled for weeks if
not months. And, you're so afraid of being sued for libel that won't spell
my name properly.

"Fella" wrote in message
ne
Your biggest accomplishment is that pcabx website.

Delusions of omniscience noted. www.pcabx.com is just a hobby of mine.

You call yourself a computer consultant word has
it. Yet you don't even have the basic functionality of
server-side-includes in that stinking website of yours where
copyrights are one saying 2001, the other 2003, etc, for example.

I properly manually update the copyright date list to correspond to the
actual years in which I have updated each page.

Thanks for not noticing the automated means I use to upate the date of last
update, Fella. Some web page authoring egggsphert you are!