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#41
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"no useful info" wrote in message ... "no useful info" wrote in message ... In article , "Robert Morein" wrote: A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating. It is only humiliating if the child lets it be...in todays society many a child will brag to their friends that they made you fly off the handle or that the spanking didn't hurt in the least. It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children, no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow; to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about himself, and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible. it's obvious that you needed more nurturing as you've never learned to admit that forging someones email addy is wrong. Let me make something clear: I am taking over the address "no useful info". You can share it with me if you like. If you think you have a legal claim, pursue it in court. PS: Remember, I continue to offer you a truce, for which I ask very little: 1.Do not participate in responses to my threads. 2.Leave my questions alone. 3. Do not belittle me or my questions. If you agree, I will cease using the name "no useful info." |
#42
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"Robert Morein" wrote in message ... .... 1.Do not participate in responses to my threads. 2.Leave my questions alone. 3. Do not belittle me or my questions. Crap, man, where is the fun in that? |
#43
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"Robert Morein" wrote in message ... .... 1.Do not participate in responses to my threads. 2.Leave my questions alone. 3. Do not belittle me or my questions. Crap, man, where is the fun in that? |
#44
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"Robert Morein" wrote in message ...
"TonyP" wrote in message . net... Robert Morein wrote: "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... I'm surprised how much you guys seem to endorse corporal punishment. All one has to do is look how kids that grew up in the era of corporal punishment turned out compared to the young "adults" of today. And it will even get worse. Teachers today call parents to inform them of little Leroy's actions and the parents show up at school looking to beat up the teacher. I'm not ruling out corporal punishment. Please reread what I wrote. It seemed that way. All I'm saying is, we transfer our wisdom to our kids by communicating with them. Corporal punishment does not do this. Sure, if for some reason, there has been a communications failure, then you may have to spank them. Then go back and ask yourself, "How did this comm failure occur, and what can I do to bring my kids closer to me?" Or... have you thought that the kid just wanted to do what the kid wanted to do inspite of what you said? Mostly, that happens when you give the child rules, but don't make him part of your world. You have to teach your child by example, by how you conduct your life. Too many parents keep their children at arms length. Let your child feel your pain; feel your joy. As far as the type of corporal punishment, the object should be humilation. When I hear people speak of wanting to "beat" their kid, this crosses the line. This is teaching brutality. Sure, you may curb the current misbehavior, but at a terrible cost later, at the core of your child's misbehavior. Really. Re-read the above reply to you. I never heard of a spanking that didn't hurt. A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating. Usually, a child's misbehavior is a rebellion against the rules that have been set in place. Break the rules, there are consequences (gee, just like in real life!). If you know the consequences and are willing the break the rules anyway, you bring upon *yourself* the punishment that was clearly expressed before hand. That is law, not parenting. If it is law -- then it is as much natural law as it is man-made law. Gee, doesn't that bright shiny thing flickering at the end of that stick look interesting. I think I'll touch it. Youch!! Nature has just taught you not to touch fire. Gee, I wonder what'll happen if I try dragging Pussy-cat up stairs by his tail. Yow! Ouch!! Ahh! Nature (with a little assist from Pussy-cat) has just taught you that you shouldn't be dragging pussy cat up the stairs by his tail. Before there was language, before there was reason, before we had our wonderfully advanced brains -- there was pain and pleasure. They are there to teach us how to navigate the world in safety -- to positively reinforce us when we do things that help us to survive and to negatively reinforce us when we do things that are likely going to get us hurt or killed. The notion that spanking ought to be used as a tool of humiliation - that causing pain to child is harmful and brutal -- whilst "humiliating" a child, of all things, is a perfectly wonderful strategy toward achieving healthy happy adulthood -- seems like the sickest crock of demented bull**** that I've ever ****ing heard. What did your parents do when they had to haul out the big guns -- send you to school dressed up like a girl? As we progress from childhood to adulthood, we enter a world that does run according to unfeeling statutes. If you commit a crime, you are punished. However, such a system is not appropriate for raising a child. Too many men think that childrearing is about setting rules and demanding compliance. But they don't understand that the more important part of parenting is nurturing. Nurturing is not reserved for women. Nurturing means that you provide all the emotional support and framework that helps your child grow. Nurturing includes all kinds of positive reinforcement. Yeah, we all hear that and it can work -- up to a point. And then, virtually every parent hits that point where it doesn't work. Where talking doesn't work. Where explaining doesn't work. Where promising doesn't work. Where time outs don't work. Where threats don't work. And there comes a moment of truth. Somebody in your house has got to be in charge. Everything cannot be a negotiation. And ultimately sometimes the reason why a thing has to be a certain way is because you say it. Because otherwise everything -- and I mean every single solitary aspect of your child's life is going to end being a negotiation. Bed is at nine o' clock. Why not nine oh five. Why not nine oh four? Why not two minutes more? If two minutes why not three minutes? Why not another thirty seconds? If another thirty seconds, why not another minute? And on and on and on, every single request questioned, pressed, challenged. And then you fall into the most lethal pit of quicksand imaginable. You try to reason with your child. And the deadly reality is -- there is no reason. Why is it that that the voting age is 18 -- and not 18 and one day, or 18 minus one day? It's completely arbitrary. And so is the 9:00 bedtime. It could be anything. And whatever you set it to -- it's still going to be arbitrary -- it's still going to be subject to the same idiotic, interminable challenge, and negotiation. Because whatever it is, the kid doesn't want to go bed. Whatever you want him to do -- he doesn't want to do it. He wants to challenge you. There's no failure of communication of all. You want him to do it. He doesn't -- and he'll use whatever strategy you allow him to use to get out of doing it. If "reasoning" works -- then he'll happily reason his way out of doing it. If screaming works -- he'll scream. If crying works, he'll cry. If grinding you down works -- he'll grind you down. If being sick helps -- he'll pretend to be sick. That's always good -- at least a couple times. And the simple fact is, what ultimately works is for parents when they come to loggerheads with children -- is to not reason with them. Quite the opposite. Because when it comes down to a conflict someone completely unreasonable and someone trying to be "reasonable" -- the unreasonable one always has the edge. So if bedtime is 9:00 -- at ten to nine it's time to start getting ready - get the screaming and the crying and fussing and all the rest out of the way -- no reasoning -- no listening. No nothing. Five minutes? No? Two minutes? No? Five seconds? No. Nothing. Why. No reason. None. I say so. Period. Do it. If not, then God help you. Far from being more reasonable, in some ways, you have to be less reasonable -- because the alernative is a home where your kids, rather than you -- are really in charge. And in the end, they really do want you to be in charge. And they need you to be in charge. And they fact that some of the rules have some arbitrariness to them -- that's life. That's the way it is in the real world too. That doesn't mean that the rules don't really, fundamentally make sense. It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children, no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow; to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about himself, and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible. I think that it's because it's easy to be positive with one's children. It's easy, when your child fails to say that he's really done well -- even when it's not true. And to tell yourself that that's a good thing to do - you're making him feel good about himself, building him up, etc. Sort of like "social promotion" -- where, for I don't know how many years we've been graduating kids who fail all their courses, because, God forbid, if we held them back until they mastered the material, then they'd "feel bad themselves." So instead, we graduate them into more advanced classes, where they still don't know the material, finally promoting entire generations of high school kids with diplomas that many of them can't even read, into a world where many of them have essentially no useful or marketable skills -- but that's okay -- because you see, they "feel good about themselves." My feeling about it -- such as it is -- is that people of all ages should feel proud about accomplishments that warrant it - and should feel bad when they've done things that warrant that. I'm not into this sort of generic "feel-goodism" -- whoever said that just because somebody gave you a ticket out of the womb that that necessarily means that you're a great guy? Maybe you are, maybe you're not. Maybe you should feel good about yourself. Maybe you shouldn't. That very much depends on who you are and how you've been behaving. Maybe your entire life needs a major overhaul before you start feeling good about yourself and you ought to start today. If I were to endow my children with any quality that I think is important -- I would say that it is far more important that they know themselves -- than that they "feel good" about themselves -- because if you know yourself, you'll know whether you *should* feel good about yourself. NMS |
#45
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"Robert Morein" wrote in message ...
"TonyP" wrote in message . net... Robert Morein wrote: "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... I'm surprised how much you guys seem to endorse corporal punishment. All one has to do is look how kids that grew up in the era of corporal punishment turned out compared to the young "adults" of today. And it will even get worse. Teachers today call parents to inform them of little Leroy's actions and the parents show up at school looking to beat up the teacher. I'm not ruling out corporal punishment. Please reread what I wrote. It seemed that way. All I'm saying is, we transfer our wisdom to our kids by communicating with them. Corporal punishment does not do this. Sure, if for some reason, there has been a communications failure, then you may have to spank them. Then go back and ask yourself, "How did this comm failure occur, and what can I do to bring my kids closer to me?" Or... have you thought that the kid just wanted to do what the kid wanted to do inspite of what you said? Mostly, that happens when you give the child rules, but don't make him part of your world. You have to teach your child by example, by how you conduct your life. Too many parents keep their children at arms length. Let your child feel your pain; feel your joy. As far as the type of corporal punishment, the object should be humilation. When I hear people speak of wanting to "beat" their kid, this crosses the line. This is teaching brutality. Sure, you may curb the current misbehavior, but at a terrible cost later, at the core of your child's misbehavior. Really. Re-read the above reply to you. I never heard of a spanking that didn't hurt. A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating. Usually, a child's misbehavior is a rebellion against the rules that have been set in place. Break the rules, there are consequences (gee, just like in real life!). If you know the consequences and are willing the break the rules anyway, you bring upon *yourself* the punishment that was clearly expressed before hand. That is law, not parenting. If it is law -- then it is as much natural law as it is man-made law. Gee, doesn't that bright shiny thing flickering at the end of that stick look interesting. I think I'll touch it. Youch!! Nature has just taught you not to touch fire. Gee, I wonder what'll happen if I try dragging Pussy-cat up stairs by his tail. Yow! Ouch!! Ahh! Nature (with a little assist from Pussy-cat) has just taught you that you shouldn't be dragging pussy cat up the stairs by his tail. Before there was language, before there was reason, before we had our wonderfully advanced brains -- there was pain and pleasure. They are there to teach us how to navigate the world in safety -- to positively reinforce us when we do things that help us to survive and to negatively reinforce us when we do things that are likely going to get us hurt or killed. The notion that spanking ought to be used as a tool of humiliation - that causing pain to child is harmful and brutal -- whilst "humiliating" a child, of all things, is a perfectly wonderful strategy toward achieving healthy happy adulthood -- seems like the sickest crock of demented bull**** that I've ever ****ing heard. What did your parents do when they had to haul out the big guns -- send you to school dressed up like a girl? As we progress from childhood to adulthood, we enter a world that does run according to unfeeling statutes. If you commit a crime, you are punished. However, such a system is not appropriate for raising a child. Too many men think that childrearing is about setting rules and demanding compliance. But they don't understand that the more important part of parenting is nurturing. Nurturing is not reserved for women. Nurturing means that you provide all the emotional support and framework that helps your child grow. Nurturing includes all kinds of positive reinforcement. Yeah, we all hear that and it can work -- up to a point. And then, virtually every parent hits that point where it doesn't work. Where talking doesn't work. Where explaining doesn't work. Where promising doesn't work. Where time outs don't work. Where threats don't work. And there comes a moment of truth. Somebody in your house has got to be in charge. Everything cannot be a negotiation. And ultimately sometimes the reason why a thing has to be a certain way is because you say it. Because otherwise everything -- and I mean every single solitary aspect of your child's life is going to end being a negotiation. Bed is at nine o' clock. Why not nine oh five. Why not nine oh four? Why not two minutes more? If two minutes why not three minutes? Why not another thirty seconds? If another thirty seconds, why not another minute? And on and on and on, every single request questioned, pressed, challenged. And then you fall into the most lethal pit of quicksand imaginable. You try to reason with your child. And the deadly reality is -- there is no reason. Why is it that that the voting age is 18 -- and not 18 and one day, or 18 minus one day? It's completely arbitrary. And so is the 9:00 bedtime. It could be anything. And whatever you set it to -- it's still going to be arbitrary -- it's still going to be subject to the same idiotic, interminable challenge, and negotiation. Because whatever it is, the kid doesn't want to go bed. Whatever you want him to do -- he doesn't want to do it. He wants to challenge you. There's no failure of communication of all. You want him to do it. He doesn't -- and he'll use whatever strategy you allow him to use to get out of doing it. If "reasoning" works -- then he'll happily reason his way out of doing it. If screaming works -- he'll scream. If crying works, he'll cry. If grinding you down works -- he'll grind you down. If being sick helps -- he'll pretend to be sick. That's always good -- at least a couple times. And the simple fact is, what ultimately works is for parents when they come to loggerheads with children -- is to not reason with them. Quite the opposite. Because when it comes down to a conflict someone completely unreasonable and someone trying to be "reasonable" -- the unreasonable one always has the edge. So if bedtime is 9:00 -- at ten to nine it's time to start getting ready - get the screaming and the crying and fussing and all the rest out of the way -- no reasoning -- no listening. No nothing. Five minutes? No? Two minutes? No? Five seconds? No. Nothing. Why. No reason. None. I say so. Period. Do it. If not, then God help you. Far from being more reasonable, in some ways, you have to be less reasonable -- because the alernative is a home where your kids, rather than you -- are really in charge. And in the end, they really do want you to be in charge. And they need you to be in charge. And they fact that some of the rules have some arbitrariness to them -- that's life. That's the way it is in the real world too. That doesn't mean that the rules don't really, fundamentally make sense. It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children, no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow; to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about himself, and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible. I think that it's because it's easy to be positive with one's children. It's easy, when your child fails to say that he's really done well -- even when it's not true. And to tell yourself that that's a good thing to do - you're making him feel good about himself, building him up, etc. Sort of like "social promotion" -- where, for I don't know how many years we've been graduating kids who fail all their courses, because, God forbid, if we held them back until they mastered the material, then they'd "feel bad themselves." So instead, we graduate them into more advanced classes, where they still don't know the material, finally promoting entire generations of high school kids with diplomas that many of them can't even read, into a world where many of them have essentially no useful or marketable skills -- but that's okay -- because you see, they "feel good about themselves." My feeling about it -- such as it is -- is that people of all ages should feel proud about accomplishments that warrant it - and should feel bad when they've done things that warrant that. I'm not into this sort of generic "feel-goodism" -- whoever said that just because somebody gave you a ticket out of the womb that that necessarily means that you're a great guy? Maybe you are, maybe you're not. Maybe you should feel good about yourself. Maybe you shouldn't. That very much depends on who you are and how you've been behaving. Maybe your entire life needs a major overhaul before you start feeling good about yourself and you ought to start today. If I were to endow my children with any quality that I think is important -- I would say that it is far more important that they know themselves -- than that they "feel good" about themselves -- because if you know yourself, you'll know whether you *should* feel good about yourself. NMS |
#46
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Robert Morein wrote:
"TonyP" wrote in message . net... Or... have you thought that the kid just wanted to do what the kid wanted to do inspite of what you said? Mostly, that happens when you give the child rules, but don't make him part of your world. You have to teach your child by example, by how you conduct your life. Too many parents keep their children at arms length. Let your child feel your pain; feel your joy. Everyone has to follow rules, whether they agree with them or not. And, if you don't and are caught, there will be a price to pay. Of course, you lead by example to your children. You can't say don't drink and guzzle beer by the barrel in front of them. Still, children will test the limits of their environment to see how much they can get away with. That is where the rules and 'laws' come in. Break them, these are the consequences. Quite simple. As far as the type of corporal punishment, the object should be humilation. When I hear people speak of wanting to "beat" their kid, this crosses the line. This is teaching brutality. Sure, you may curb the current misbehavior, but at a terrible cost later, at the core of your child's misbehavior. Really. Re-read the above reply to you. I never heard of a spanking that didn't hurt. A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating. Sure. Moderate spanking. Humiliating to who, the child? I don't think so. Usually, a child's misbehavior is a rebellion against the rules that have been set in place. Break the rules, there are consequences (gee, just like in real life!). If you know the consequences and are willing the break the rules anyway, you bring upon *yourself* the punishment that was clearly expressed before hand. That is law, not parenting. As we progress from childhood to adulthood, we enter a world that does run according to unfeeling statutes. If you commit a crime, you are punished. However, such a system is not appropriate for raising a child. Too many men think that childrearing is about setting rules and demanding compliance. But they don't understand that the more important part of parenting is nurturing. We are not talking about nurturing. You act as if corporal punishment is wrong. It isn't. There is a time and place for it. Nurturing is not reserved for women. Nurturing means that you provide all the emotional support and framework that helps your child grow. Nurturing includes all kinds of positive reinforcement. And punishment. It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children, no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow; to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about himself, and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible. When you have reached the point of spanking, there will be nothing "good" about it. Personally, I was spanked exactly once, when I was four years old. However, I was "punished" many times, while growing up, by sheer guilt at the various shortfalls that all kids have in becoming adults. And my conscience grew large, which is a tribute to my parents. Mind did to. Knowing that my father would "kill" me kept me from doing a lot of stupid things I would have done. Otherwise, I would have turned out like a lot of the brats you see in the mall screaming at their parents demanding this and that. All while the parent says "please stop that. You are making a scene." Then the kid swings at the parent. Keeps up the tantruming until they get what they want. Glad parenting is as wonderful as you paint it to be.... And, the spanking made you into a deranged person. |
#47
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Robert Morein wrote:
"TonyP" wrote in message . net... Or... have you thought that the kid just wanted to do what the kid wanted to do inspite of what you said? Mostly, that happens when you give the child rules, but don't make him part of your world. You have to teach your child by example, by how you conduct your life. Too many parents keep their children at arms length. Let your child feel your pain; feel your joy. Everyone has to follow rules, whether they agree with them or not. And, if you don't and are caught, there will be a price to pay. Of course, you lead by example to your children. You can't say don't drink and guzzle beer by the barrel in front of them. Still, children will test the limits of their environment to see how much they can get away with. That is where the rules and 'laws' come in. Break them, these are the consequences. Quite simple. As far as the type of corporal punishment, the object should be humilation. When I hear people speak of wanting to "beat" their kid, this crosses the line. This is teaching brutality. Sure, you may curb the current misbehavior, but at a terrible cost later, at the core of your child's misbehavior. Really. Re-read the above reply to you. I never heard of a spanking that didn't hurt. A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating. Sure. Moderate spanking. Humiliating to who, the child? I don't think so. Usually, a child's misbehavior is a rebellion against the rules that have been set in place. Break the rules, there are consequences (gee, just like in real life!). If you know the consequences and are willing the break the rules anyway, you bring upon *yourself* the punishment that was clearly expressed before hand. That is law, not parenting. As we progress from childhood to adulthood, we enter a world that does run according to unfeeling statutes. If you commit a crime, you are punished. However, such a system is not appropriate for raising a child. Too many men think that childrearing is about setting rules and demanding compliance. But they don't understand that the more important part of parenting is nurturing. We are not talking about nurturing. You act as if corporal punishment is wrong. It isn't. There is a time and place for it. Nurturing is not reserved for women. Nurturing means that you provide all the emotional support and framework that helps your child grow. Nurturing includes all kinds of positive reinforcement. And punishment. It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children, no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow; to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about himself, and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible. When you have reached the point of spanking, there will be nothing "good" about it. Personally, I was spanked exactly once, when I was four years old. However, I was "punished" many times, while growing up, by sheer guilt at the various shortfalls that all kids have in becoming adults. And my conscience grew large, which is a tribute to my parents. Mind did to. Knowing that my father would "kill" me kept me from doing a lot of stupid things I would have done. Otherwise, I would have turned out like a lot of the brats you see in the mall screaming at their parents demanding this and that. All while the parent says "please stop that. You are making a scene." Then the kid swings at the parent. Keeps up the tantruming until they get what they want. Glad parenting is as wonderful as you paint it to be.... And, the spanking made you into a deranged person. |
#48
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In article ,
"Fred B. McGalliard" wrote: "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... ... 1.Do not participate in responses to my threads. 2.Leave my questions alone. 3. Do not belittle me or my questions. Crap, man, where is the fun in that? bobbie is a sick anti-semite. you'd think that after having had his email addy hijacked he would know better than to do it himself. he probably has self-esteem issues because he was only a PhD "candidate" in engineering, apparently not being able to accomplish his thesis and get his degree. btw, ream him on the reactor rods thread. |
#49
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In article ,
"Fred B. McGalliard" wrote: "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... ... 1.Do not participate in responses to my threads. 2.Leave my questions alone. 3. Do not belittle me or my questions. Crap, man, where is the fun in that? bobbie is a sick anti-semite. you'd think that after having had his email addy hijacked he would know better than to do it himself. he probably has self-esteem issues because he was only a PhD "candidate" in engineering, apparently not being able to accomplish his thesis and get his degree. btw, ream him on the reactor rods thread. |
#50
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In article ,
"Robert Morein" wrote: "no useful info" wrote in message ... "no useful info" wrote in message ... In article , "Robert Morein" wrote: A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating. It is only humiliating if the child lets it be...in todays society many a child will brag to their friends that they made you fly off the handle or that the spanking didn't hurt in the least. It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children, no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow; to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about himself, and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible. it's obvious that you needed more nurturing as you've never learned to admit that forging someones email addy is wrong. Let me make something clear: I am taking over the address "no useful info". You can share it with me if you like. If you think you have a legal claim, pursue it in court. PS: Remember, I continue to offer you a truce, for which I ask very little: 1.Do not participate in responses to my threads. 2.Leave my questions alone. 3. Do not belittle me or my questions. If you agree, I will cease using the name "no useful info." you are an anti-semitic forger. you are scum that uses the word "technically" to excuse your attempted theft of my name, a tactic that only lawyers, politicians and criminals use. you use that word as if it is an excuse for your behaviour. your attempts at hijacking my email are no different than identity theft. steal my identity, steal my heritage. go back to burning crosses on someone elses yard. I will not agree to any truce until you forthrightly and truthfully apologize for what you have done and admit that forging anothers email address is wrong. your inability to see your error in judgement leads me to believe that the reason you state you were a Ph.D. candidate is that you didn't have the moral fortitude required to finish the requirements. Play your game, but I will cross-post every one of your posts to any group you frequent and your reputation will suffer. suffer more than it currently does 1. The are not your threads. 2. Your questions are idiotic, especially since you were a PhD candidate in engineering. 3. Your idiotic questions deserve belittling. 4. Remember if you are capable of it that I provided more links to info than anyone else thereby establishing my right to belittle your further idiotic questions. 5. Have you even drafted a preliminary set of plans for your wooden box? 6. Ask a question on usenet, be prepared for the answers...even if you don't like them. 7. Continued use of my nym and email addy will only result in the diminuation of your credibility. 8. Bite me. |
#51
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In article ,
"Robert Morein" wrote: "no useful info" wrote in message ... "no useful info" wrote in message ... In article , "Robert Morein" wrote: A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating. It is only humiliating if the child lets it be...in todays society many a child will brag to their friends that they made you fly off the handle or that the spanking didn't hurt in the least. It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children, no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow; to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about himself, and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible. it's obvious that you needed more nurturing as you've never learned to admit that forging someones email addy is wrong. Let me make something clear: I am taking over the address "no useful info". You can share it with me if you like. If you think you have a legal claim, pursue it in court. PS: Remember, I continue to offer you a truce, for which I ask very little: 1.Do not participate in responses to my threads. 2.Leave my questions alone. 3. Do not belittle me or my questions. If you agree, I will cease using the name "no useful info." you are an anti-semitic forger. you are scum that uses the word "technically" to excuse your attempted theft of my name, a tactic that only lawyers, politicians and criminals use. you use that word as if it is an excuse for your behaviour. your attempts at hijacking my email are no different than identity theft. steal my identity, steal my heritage. go back to burning crosses on someone elses yard. I will not agree to any truce until you forthrightly and truthfully apologize for what you have done and admit that forging anothers email address is wrong. your inability to see your error in judgement leads me to believe that the reason you state you were a Ph.D. candidate is that you didn't have the moral fortitude required to finish the requirements. Play your game, but I will cross-post every one of your posts to any group you frequent and your reputation will suffer. suffer more than it currently does 1. The are not your threads. 2. Your questions are idiotic, especially since you were a PhD candidate in engineering. 3. Your idiotic questions deserve belittling. 4. Remember if you are capable of it that I provided more links to info than anyone else thereby establishing my right to belittle your further idiotic questions. 5. Have you even drafted a preliminary set of plans for your wooden box? 6. Ask a question on usenet, be prepared for the answers...even if you don't like them. 7. Continued use of my nym and email addy will only result in the diminuation of your credibility. 8. Bite me. |
#52
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"no useful info" wrote in message ... In article , "Robert Morein" wrote: "no useful info" wrote in message ... "no useful info" wrote in message ... In article , "Robert Morein" wrote: A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating. It is only humiliating if the child lets it be...in todays society many a child will brag to their friends that they made you fly off the handle or that the spanking didn't hurt in the least. It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children, no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow; to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about himself, and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible. it's obvious that you needed more nurturing as you've never learned to admit that forging someones email addy is wrong. Let me make something clear: I am taking over the address "no useful info". You can share it with me if you like. If you think you have a legal claim, pursue it in court. PS: Remember, I continue to offer you a truce, for which I ask very little: 1.Do not participate in responses to my threads. 2.Leave my questions alone. 3. Do not belittle me or my questions. If you agree, I will cease using the name "no useful info." you are an anti-semitic forger. you are scum that uses the word "technically" to excuse your attempted theft of my name, a tactic that only lawyers, politicians and criminals use. you use that word as if it is an excuse for your behaviour. your attempts at hijacking my email are no different than identity theft. steal my identity, steal my heritage. go back to burning crosses on someone elses yard. Dear "no useful info", I offered to give you back your email address. If you don't want it, I'll keep it. I like it. Any time you decide otherwise, the offer stands. |
#53
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"no useful info" wrote in message ... In article , "Robert Morein" wrote: "no useful info" wrote in message ... "no useful info" wrote in message ... In article , "Robert Morein" wrote: A moderate spanking is not very painful. It is humiliating. It is only humiliating if the child lets it be...in todays society many a child will brag to their friends that they made you fly off the handle or that the spanking didn't hurt in the least. It's a shame that with all this talk of hitting and beating one's children, no one has described what they do to nuture their child; to help him grow; to help him develop positive attitudes, to make him feel good about himself, and to make him feel part of the adult world as early as possible. it's obvious that you needed more nurturing as you've never learned to admit that forging someones email addy is wrong. Let me make something clear: I am taking over the address "no useful info". You can share it with me if you like. If you think you have a legal claim, pursue it in court. PS: Remember, I continue to offer you a truce, for which I ask very little: 1.Do not participate in responses to my threads. 2.Leave my questions alone. 3. Do not belittle me or my questions. If you agree, I will cease using the name "no useful info." you are an anti-semitic forger. you are scum that uses the word "technically" to excuse your attempted theft of my name, a tactic that only lawyers, politicians and criminals use. you use that word as if it is an excuse for your behaviour. your attempts at hijacking my email are no different than identity theft. steal my identity, steal my heritage. go back to burning crosses on someone elses yard. Dear "no useful info", I offered to give you back your email address. If you don't want it, I'll keep it. I like it. Any time you decide otherwise, the offer stands. |
#54
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"nmstevens" wrote in message om... "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... "TonyP" wrote in message . net... Robert Morein wrote: "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... [snip] I'm not into this sort of generic "feel-goodism" -- whoever said that just because somebody gave you a ticket out of the womb that that necessarily means that you're a great guy? Maybe you are, maybe you're not. Maybe you should feel good about yourself. Maybe you shouldn't. That very much depends on who you are and how you've been behaving. Maybe your entire life needs a major overhaul before you start feeling good about yourself and you ought to start today. If I were to endow my children with any quality that I think is important -- I would say that it is far more important that they know themselves -- than that they "feel good" about themselves -- because if you know yourself, you'll know whether you *should* feel good about yourself. NMS Neal, Very well put. I did not mean to convey that meaningless positivism is a point of good parenting. But what I got from the thread, with all the male rage that came out, was that the emphasis is on the wrong thing. Perhaps I would feel differently if I had been witness to more difficult children. There was not a single use of the word "love" in the thread. |
#55
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"nmstevens" wrote in message om... "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... "TonyP" wrote in message . net... Robert Morein wrote: "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... [snip] I'm not into this sort of generic "feel-goodism" -- whoever said that just because somebody gave you a ticket out of the womb that that necessarily means that you're a great guy? Maybe you are, maybe you're not. Maybe you should feel good about yourself. Maybe you shouldn't. That very much depends on who you are and how you've been behaving. Maybe your entire life needs a major overhaul before you start feeling good about yourself and you ought to start today. If I were to endow my children with any quality that I think is important -- I would say that it is far more important that they know themselves -- than that they "feel good" about themselves -- because if you know yourself, you'll know whether you *should* feel good about yourself. NMS Neal, Very well put. I did not mean to convey that meaningless positivism is a point of good parenting. But what I got from the thread, with all the male rage that came out, was that the emphasis is on the wrong thing. Perhaps I would feel differently if I had been witness to more difficult children. There was not a single use of the word "love" in the thread. |
#56
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"TonyP" wrote in message t... Robert Morein wrote: "TonyP" wrote in message . net... [snip] Glad parenting is as wonderful as you paint it to be.... Tony, I respect your POV, and I don't believe I know everything about parenting. Ironically, it seems as if your father had methods other than physical punishment to keep you in line. I'm sure you do the best for your kids. |
#57
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"TonyP" wrote in message t... Robert Morein wrote: "TonyP" wrote in message . net... [snip] Glad parenting is as wonderful as you paint it to be.... Tony, I respect your POV, and I don't believe I know everything about parenting. Ironically, it seems as if your father had methods other than physical punishment to keep you in line. I'm sure you do the best for your kids. |
#58
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no useful info wrote:
Neal, Very well put. I did not mean to convey that meaningless positivism is a point of good parenting. But what I got from the thread, with all the male rage that came out, was that the emphasis is on the wrong thing. Perhaps I would feel differently if I had been witness to more difficult children. There was not a single use of the word "love" in the thread. the entire origination was about punishment. So, that was what was dealt with. |
#59
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no useful info wrote:
Neal, Very well put. I did not mean to convey that meaningless positivism is a point of good parenting. But what I got from the thread, with all the male rage that came out, was that the emphasis is on the wrong thing. Perhaps I would feel differently if I had been witness to more difficult children. There was not a single use of the word "love" in the thread. the entire origination was about punishment. So, that was what was dealt with. |
#60
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no useful info wrote:
"TonyP" wrote in message t... Robert Morein wrote: "TonyP" wrote in message . cv.net... [snip] Glad parenting is as wonderful as you paint it to be.... Tony, I respect your POV, and I don't believe I know everything about parenting. Ironically, it seems as if your father had methods other than physical punishment to keep you in line. I'm sure you do the best for your kids. Sure my parents did. But that did also included corporal punishment. Again, the fear of my father 'killing' me kept me from doing a lot of stupid things I would have done. Not the "go to your room, no tv" thing. |
#61
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no useful info wrote:
"TonyP" wrote in message t... Robert Morein wrote: "TonyP" wrote in message . cv.net... [snip] Glad parenting is as wonderful as you paint it to be.... Tony, I respect your POV, and I don't believe I know everything about parenting. Ironically, it seems as if your father had methods other than physical punishment to keep you in line. I'm sure you do the best for your kids. Sure my parents did. But that did also included corporal punishment. Again, the fear of my father 'killing' me kept me from doing a lot of stupid things I would have done. Not the "go to your room, no tv" thing. |
#62
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"no useful info" wrote in message ...
"nmstevens" wrote in message om... "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... "TonyP" wrote in message . net... Robert Morein wrote: "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... [snip] I'm not into this sort of generic "feel-goodism" -- whoever said that just because somebody gave you a ticket out of the womb that that necessarily means that you're a great guy? Maybe you are, maybe you're not. Maybe you should feel good about yourself. Maybe you shouldn't. That very much depends on who you are and how you've been behaving. Maybe your entire life needs a major overhaul before you start feeling good about yourself and you ought to start today. If I were to endow my children with any quality that I think is important -- I would say that it is far more important that they know themselves -- than that they "feel good" about themselves -- because if you know yourself, you'll know whether you *should* feel good about yourself. NMS Neal, Very well put. I did not mean to convey that meaningless positivism is a point of good parenting. But what I got from the thread, with all the male rage that came out, was that the emphasis is on the wrong thing. Perhaps I would feel differently if I had been witness to more difficult children. There was not a single use of the word "love" in the thread. My feeling is this -- love, like a lot of words, has been used so often that, as a word, it's been devalued. Talk is cheap. The only love that has any meaning between a parent and a child is the love that exists through the work of parenting -- and it is not one bit less present when you punish as it is when you praise. A child inappropriately punished has been inappropriately parented. But a child inappropriately praised -- has not one whit less -- been inappropriately parented. Both can yield results that are, as adults, less than sterling. The trouble is -- it's very easy to fall into the trap of "inappropriate praise" -- because, after all, isn't it good to always be positive, always be upbeat, always try to find something good to say, something to compliment, some way to make your child feel good about himself, even when he's failed, not done his work, been lazy, careless, sloppy, or evil? Until after awhile, it becomes automatic -- and a parent actually starts to believe that everything a child does is good - that their child can do no wrong, that everything bad that happens must be due to something else -- bad teachers, bad playmates, society, the stars -- or *them* -- anything but the responsibility of the child himself. I've met these kids -- and these parents. When a kid was knocking something over and I said, "Hey, no, don't do that," and the Mother said, very offended, "We don't say, "no" to our son." That was years ago. I wonder what they say to him now -- when they visit him in prison, which is where the little brat probably ended up. What you fail to understand is that the greatest gift -- the greatest act of love that any parent can give to a child is to raise him up to be a responsible, caring, contributing member of society -- even if, at various points along the way, the child may not enjoy the process. Love, in point of fact, was the entire topic of my post. NMS |
#63
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"no useful info" wrote in message ...
"nmstevens" wrote in message om... "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... "TonyP" wrote in message . net... Robert Morein wrote: "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... [snip] I'm not into this sort of generic "feel-goodism" -- whoever said that just because somebody gave you a ticket out of the womb that that necessarily means that you're a great guy? Maybe you are, maybe you're not. Maybe you should feel good about yourself. Maybe you shouldn't. That very much depends on who you are and how you've been behaving. Maybe your entire life needs a major overhaul before you start feeling good about yourself and you ought to start today. If I were to endow my children with any quality that I think is important -- I would say that it is far more important that they know themselves -- than that they "feel good" about themselves -- because if you know yourself, you'll know whether you *should* feel good about yourself. NMS Neal, Very well put. I did not mean to convey that meaningless positivism is a point of good parenting. But what I got from the thread, with all the male rage that came out, was that the emphasis is on the wrong thing. Perhaps I would feel differently if I had been witness to more difficult children. There was not a single use of the word "love" in the thread. My feeling is this -- love, like a lot of words, has been used so often that, as a word, it's been devalued. Talk is cheap. The only love that has any meaning between a parent and a child is the love that exists through the work of parenting -- and it is not one bit less present when you punish as it is when you praise. A child inappropriately punished has been inappropriately parented. But a child inappropriately praised -- has not one whit less -- been inappropriately parented. Both can yield results that are, as adults, less than sterling. The trouble is -- it's very easy to fall into the trap of "inappropriate praise" -- because, after all, isn't it good to always be positive, always be upbeat, always try to find something good to say, something to compliment, some way to make your child feel good about himself, even when he's failed, not done his work, been lazy, careless, sloppy, or evil? Until after awhile, it becomes automatic -- and a parent actually starts to believe that everything a child does is good - that their child can do no wrong, that everything bad that happens must be due to something else -- bad teachers, bad playmates, society, the stars -- or *them* -- anything but the responsibility of the child himself. I've met these kids -- and these parents. When a kid was knocking something over and I said, "Hey, no, don't do that," and the Mother said, very offended, "We don't say, "no" to our son." That was years ago. I wonder what they say to him now -- when they visit him in prison, which is where the little brat probably ended up. What you fail to understand is that the greatest gift -- the greatest act of love that any parent can give to a child is to raise him up to be a responsible, caring, contributing member of society -- even if, at various points along the way, the child may not enjoy the process. Love, in point of fact, was the entire topic of my post. NMS |
#64
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George M. Middius wrote:
TonyP said: Sure my parents did. But that did also included corporal punishment. Again, the fear of my father 'killing' me kept me from doing a lot of stupid things I would have done. Not the "go to your room, no tv" thing. Does your cellmate think of you as a kind, loving person? Sure does... |
#65
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George M. Middius wrote:
TonyP said: Sure my parents did. But that did also included corporal punishment. Again, the fear of my father 'killing' me kept me from doing a lot of stupid things I would have done. Not the "go to your room, no tv" thing. Does your cellmate think of you as a kind, loving person? Sure does... |
#68
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This is what you get when you try to email the kid at the address he
posted: --- Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). : 207.115.57.15 does not like recipient. Remote host said: 553 5.3.0 ... Addressee unknown, relay=[216.136.225.12] Giving up on 207.115.57.15. --- Original message follows. Return-Path: Message-ID: m Received: from [68.174.140.8] by web20021.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 04 Jul 2004 04:37:59 PDT Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 04:37:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Selling Son's Beloved Play Station 2 For Punishment! To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tell your father I think he's a small minded, mean spirited, asshole. A_C On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:32:59 -0400, Agent_C wrote: On 01 Jul 2004 02:02:17 GMT, (Radioman390) wrote: Should this be allowed? I'd say it's worth maybe 5 years of therapy for this kid. Makes you wonder what other 'parenting' skills this father is applying. A_C |
#69
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This is what you get when you try to email the kid at the address he
posted: --- Unable to deliver message to the following address(es). : 207.115.57.15 does not like recipient. Remote host said: 553 5.3.0 ... Addressee unknown, relay=[216.136.225.12] Giving up on 207.115.57.15. --- Original message follows. Return-Path: Message-ID: m Received: from [68.174.140.8] by web20021.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 04 Jul 2004 04:37:59 PDT Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 04:37:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Selling Son's Beloved Play Station 2 For Punishment! To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Tell your father I think he's a small minded, mean spirited, asshole. A_C On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:32:59 -0400, Agent_C wrote: On 01 Jul 2004 02:02:17 GMT, (Radioman390) wrote: Should this be allowed? I'd say it's worth maybe 5 years of therapy for this kid. Makes you wonder what other 'parenting' skills this father is applying. A_C |
#70
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"nmstevens" wrote in message m... "no useful info" wrote in message ... [snip] What you fail to understand is that the greatest gift -- the greatest act of love that any parent can give to a child is to raise him up to be a responsible, caring, contributing member of society -- even if, at various points along the way, the child may not enjoy the process. Love, in point of fact, was the entire topic of my post. NMS Neal, No disagreement. If were were sitting around a table at the Village Ma, this would become clear. |
#71
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"nmstevens" wrote in message m... "no useful info" wrote in message ... [snip] What you fail to understand is that the greatest gift -- the greatest act of love that any parent can give to a child is to raise him up to be a responsible, caring, contributing member of society -- even if, at various points along the way, the child may not enjoy the process. Love, in point of fact, was the entire topic of my post. NMS Neal, No disagreement. If were were sitting around a table at the Village Ma, this would become clear. |
#72
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In article ,
wrote: "nmstevens" wrote in message m... "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... [snip] What you fail to understand is that the greatest gift -- the greatest act of love that any parent can give to a child is to raise him up to be a responsible, caring, contributing member of society -- even if, at various points along the way, the child may not enjoy the process. Love, in point of fact, was the entire topic of my post. NMS Neal, No disagreement. If were were sitting around a table at the Village Ma, this would become clear. what would become clear is your hatred of fat people, especially if they are Jewish. -- I would never use X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 although the anti-semite "Robert Morein" who regularly posts in rec.audio.opinion, rec.arts.movies.production.sound, rec.audio.marketplace, misc.writing.screenplays and forges replies from me does use X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409. Any reply with this header is his: X-Complaints-To: see the self-portrait gallery and home page of "Robert Morein" at http://www.worldjazz.tv |
#73
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In article ,
wrote: "nmstevens" wrote in message m... "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... [snip] What you fail to understand is that the greatest gift -- the greatest act of love that any parent can give to a child is to raise him up to be a responsible, caring, contributing member of society -- even if, at various points along the way, the child may not enjoy the process. Love, in point of fact, was the entire topic of my post. NMS Neal, No disagreement. If were were sitting around a table at the Village Ma, this would become clear. what would become clear is your hatred of fat people, especially if they are Jewish. -- I would never use X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 although the anti-semite "Robert Morein" who regularly posts in rec.audio.opinion, rec.arts.movies.production.sound, rec.audio.marketplace, misc.writing.screenplays and forges replies from me does use X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409. Any reply with this header is his: X-Complaints-To: see the self-portrait gallery and home page of "Robert Morein" at http://www.worldjazz.tv |
#74
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On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:15:00 -0700, no useful info
wrote: In article , wrote: "nmstevens" wrote in message m... "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... [snip] What you fail to understand is that the greatest gift -- the greatest act of love that any parent can give to a child is to raise him up to be a responsible, caring, contributing member of society -- even if, at various points along the way, the child may not enjoy the process. Love, in point of fact, was the entire topic of my post. NMS Neal, No disagreement. If were were sitting around a table at the Village Ma, this would become clear. what would become clear is your hatred of fat people, especially if they are Jewish. I am fat and Jewish Abbedd |
#75
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On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:15:00 -0700, no useful info
wrote: In article , wrote: "nmstevens" wrote in message m... "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... [snip] What you fail to understand is that the greatest gift -- the greatest act of love that any parent can give to a child is to raise him up to be a responsible, caring, contributing member of society -- even if, at various points along the way, the child may not enjoy the process. Love, in point of fact, was the entire topic of my post. NMS Neal, No disagreement. If were were sitting around a table at the Village Ma, this would become clear. what would become clear is your hatred of fat people, especially if they are Jewish. I am fat and Jewish Abbedd |
#76
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 13:46:05 -0400 (AMT), "Robert Picton" wrote: WHO CARES ABOUT FAT JEWISH PEOPLE? Certainly not you, Mr. Bad Netiguette...Quite yelling and making yourself look more dumb than you are. LV Lady Veteran - ----------------------------------- "I rode a tank and held a general's rank when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..." - -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil - ------------------------------------------------ People who hide behind anonymous remailers and ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no motive but malice. - --------------------------------------------- "To Do Is To Be" Socrates "To Be Is To Do" Plato "Do Be Do Be Do" Sinatra - ------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0 - not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBQOoUMcjazA1WMM1JEQLI9wCfWwuRgGMPNCjTFNdX+9WVo5 W+Y4oAmgLl ZVj8xPwCTGVSkb+yI0/I1jvi =rsLa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#77
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 13:46:05 -0400 (AMT), "Robert Picton" wrote: WHO CARES ABOUT FAT JEWISH PEOPLE? Certainly not you, Mr. Bad Netiguette...Quite yelling and making yourself look more dumb than you are. LV Lady Veteran - ----------------------------------- "I rode a tank and held a general's rank when the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank..." - -Rolling Stones, Sympathy for the Devil - ------------------------------------------------ People who hide behind anonymous remailers and ridicule fat people are cowardly idiots with no motive but malice. - --------------------------------------------- "To Do Is To Be" Socrates "To Be Is To Do" Plato "Do Be Do Be Do" Sinatra - ------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0 - not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBQOoUMcjazA1WMM1JEQLI9wCfWwuRgGMPNCjTFNdX+9WVo5 W+Y4oAmgLl ZVj8xPwCTGVSkb+yI0/I1jvi =rsLa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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