[wb]

What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

[wb]

wb wrote:
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?
That would be oil for the thrust bearing for the platter.

[Serge Auckland]

"wb" wrote in message
...
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have
used a standard car engine oil.

Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50?

S.

[Peter Larsen]

wb wrote:

What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

Thorens.


Regards

Peter Larsen

[wb]

Serge Auckland wrote:
"wb" wrote in message
...
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have
used a standard car engine oil.

Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50?

S.


thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have
seen the long threads that never come to any consensus.

[Karl Uppiano]

"wb" wrote in message
...
Serge Auckland wrote:
"wb" wrote in message
...
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have
used a standard car engine oil.

Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50?

S.
thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen
the long threads that never come to any consensus.

For high-end applications, you really should only use motor oil that has
been "broken in" for 5000 miles in a Rolls Royce from 1956. You can purchase
small vials of this oil from your local high-end audio salon if you want,
but true high-end aficionados will want to make it themselves in their very
own '56 Rolls Royce, sold as a Thorens "turntable accessory" at better
high-end shops worldwide.

[Karl Uppiano]

But seriously, folks...

I would visit a watchmaker, and ask for a small amount of the oil that they
use on the slower-turning, higher load shafts. Clock oil is designed to
evaporate less over time.

Automotive oil has detergents and is designed for high temperature
applications, being pumped from a sump. Evaporation is not a primary concern
with automotive motor oil.

[Peter Larsen]

Karl Uppiano wrote:

But seriously, folks...

I would visit a watchmaker, and ask for a small amount of the
oil that they use on the slower-turning, higher load shafts.
Clock oil is designed to evaporate less over time.

And it is very clean. Additives turn into abrasives. Which is why I
opted to pay the amazing price for the real stuff when being told that
it was available as sparepart.

Automotive oil has detergents and is designed for high
temperature applications, being pumped from a sump.
Evaporation is not a primary concern
with automotive motor oil.

You contradict yourself. Also SAE30 car engine oil is the Studer
recommendation for a similar type of lubrication, ie. the Revox main
axle. I would have used Mobil 1 if I hadn't come across a vial of that
very special original lubricant, based on it needing less additives by
being synthetic.

Regards

Peter Larsen

[Karl Uppiano]

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
Karl Uppiano wrote:

But seriously, folks...

I would visit a watchmaker, and ask for a small amount of the
oil that they use on the slower-turning, higher load shafts.
Clock oil is designed to evaporate less over time.

And it is very clean. Additives turn into abrasives. Which is why I
opted to pay the amazing price for the real stuff when being told that
it was available as sparepart.

Automotive oil has detergents and is designed for high
temperature applications, being pumped from a sump.
Evaporation is not a primary concern
with automotive motor oil.

You contradict yourself. Also SAE30 car engine oil is the Studer
recommendation for a similar type of lubrication, ie. the Revox main
axle. I would have used Mobil 1 if I hadn't come across a vial of that
very special original lubricant, based on it needing less additives by
being synthetic.

I'm just stating what I have read on watch and clock oils. I doubt that a
clock or turntable needs oil that is optimized for high-temperature,
high-rpm applications. It does need the oil to stay put for years without
turning to varnish or drying out.

The Studer/Revox recommendation might not be optimal, you know. It might be
expedient, however, given the high availability of automotive motor oil. If
you lubricate the device regularly, it probably makes no difference.

Regards

Peter Larsen

[Jos Van Dyck]

Look at Joel Boutreux' eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.de/_W0QQsassZjoelQ2dtd
He is a former Thorens engineer, and expert in bearings & lubrication.

[Peter Larsen]

Karl Uppiano wrote:

Automotive oil has detergents and is designed for high
temperature applications ... being pumped from a sump.
Evaporation is not a primary concern
with automotive motor oil.

That is where the contradiction is, if it runs hot then evaporation is a
concern.

I'm just stating what I have read on watch and clock oils.

On that I agree with you. An oil with good high pressure performance is
needed to avoid metal to metal contact, and it obviously also needs to
remain a liquid.

I doubt that a clock or turntable needs oil that is optimized for
high-temperature, high-rpm applications. It does need the oil to
stay put for years without turning to varnish or drying out.

It seems to me that high temperature is just an accellated version ....

If you lubricate the device regularly, it probably makes
no difference.

It certainly makes a difference for a TD124 if the oil is unsuitable
..... it will then take hours for it to reach stable speed. All things
considered we might not disagree, at least not very much.


Regards

Peter Larsen

[wb]

Karl Uppiano wrote:
"wb" wrote in message
...
Serge Auckland wrote:
"wb" wrote in message
...
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?
In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have
used a standard car engine oil.

Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50?

S.
thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen
the long threads that never come to any consensus.

For high-end applications, you really should only use motor oil that has
been "broken in" for 5000 miles in a Rolls Royce from 1956. You can purchase
small vials of this oil from your local high-end audio salon if you want,
but true high-end aficionados will want to make it themselves in their very
own '56 Rolls Royce, sold as a Thorens "turntable accessory" at better
high-end shops worldwide.


Ah, so that's why the high-end oil is black.
No, seriously, surely Thorens and others don't manufacture a special oil
for their use. There are only so many types of oil so rather than pay
for the label and packaging, not to mention shipping, there must be a
generic equivalent lubricant for main bearings. I can see that this
thread is going the way of others...
nevermind.

[Eeyore]

wb wrote:

What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

Mineral oil.

Graham

[Eeyore]

wb wrote:

Serge Auckland wrote:
"wb" wrote in message

What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have
used a standard car engine oil.

Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50?

thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have
seen the long threads that never come to any consensus.

What consensus is there to come to ? It's Mobil1 btw.

Graham

[Eeyore]

wb wrote:

Karl Uppiano wrote:
"wb" wrote in message
...
Serge Auckland wrote:
"wb" wrote in message
...
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?
In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have
used a standard car engine oil.

Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50?

S.
thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen
the long threads that never come to any consensus.

For high-end applications, you really should only use motor oil that has
been "broken in" for 5000 miles in a Rolls Royce from 1956. You can purchase
small vials of this oil from your local high-end audio salon if you want,
but true high-end aficionados will want to make it themselves in their very
own '56 Rolls Royce, sold as a Thorens "turntable accessory" at better
high-end shops worldwide.


Ah, so that's why the high-end oil is black.
No, seriously, surely Thorens and others don't manufacture a special oil
for their use. There are only so many types of oil so rather than pay
for the label and packaging, not to mention shipping, there must be a
generic equivalent lubricant for main bearings. I can see that this
thread is going the way of others...
nevermind.

A black colour might indicate it contains molydenum disulphide.

Graham

[Peter Larsen]

Eeyore wrote:

A black colour might indicate it contains molydenum disulphide.

No Graham, it is likely to be carbon black from 1956 Rolls ... don't
tell us you overlooked the 1956 Rolls gliding gently through the
newsgroup .... O;-)

Graham


Regards

Peter Larsen

[Sonic_Hero]

I would visit your local sewing machine dealer and pick up some sewing
machine oil. I don't think I'd use sump oil.

Thinking about it, sewing machine oil would share many of the properties
required for turntable use: *non-pressurized system, *relatively cool
environment, *long life, *relatively low RPM, etc, etc.

Not really the properties of sump oil at all.

Bill.

"wb" wrote in message
...
Serge Auckland wrote:
"wb" wrote in message
...
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have
used a standard car engine oil.

Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50?

S.
thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen
the long threads that never come to any consensus.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Mr.T]

"Sonic_Hero" wrote in message
.. .
I would visit your local sewing machine dealer and pick up some sewing
machine oil. I don't think I'd use sump oil.

Thinking about it, sewing machine oil would share many of the properties
required for turntable use: *non-pressurized system, *relatively cool
environment, *long life, *relatively low RPM, etc, etc.

Not really the properties of sump oil at all.

Agreed, or maybe the bearing oils used by roller skaters and others?
Frankly I can't see paying a high price for oil just because it was deemed
suitable 30 years ago, will necessarily provide better performance.
IMO if it minimises wear, does not slow the speed, does not increase rumble,
and you clean and relube regularly, then there is no more to be gained.

I'm willing to bet Thorens did not test every available oil, and measure the
differences, even at the time. And I say that as a satisfied Thorens TD125II
owner.

MrT.

[GregS]

In article , wrote:
Serge Auckland wrote:
"wb" wrote in message
...
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have
used a standard car engine oil.

Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50?

S.


thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have
seen the long threads that never come to any consensus.

That excells at high temps, but its probably a different story at room temps.
Its also high detergent.

greg

[Arny Krueger]

"Karl Uppiano" wrote in message
news:CgnEh.4239$tR1.867@trnddc05
But seriously, folks...

I would visit a watchmaker, and ask for a small amount of
the oil that they use on the slower-turning, higher load
shafts. Clock oil is designed to evaporate less over time.

Clocks use miniscule amounts of oil compared to a TT bearing.

Automotive oil has detergents and is designed for high
temperature applications, being pumped from a sump.
Evaporation is not a primary concern with automotive
motor oil.

Huh? Motor oil runs at 212 F or more, with a filtered port and then free
to the atmosphere, for 120 or more hours with negligable evaporation, and
evaporation isn't a concern?

Historically, there has been some concern about how the detergents behave,
but motor oil has gone through a lot of changes over the years.

[Serge Auckland]

"Sonic_Hero" wrote in message
.. .
I would visit your local sewing machine dealer and pick up some sewing
machine oil. I don't think I'd use sump oil.

Thinking about it, sewing machine oil would share many of the properties
required for turntable use: *non-pressurized system, *relatively cool
environment, *long life, *relatively low RPM, etc, etc.

Not really the properties of sump oil at all.

Bill.

"wb" wrote in message
...
Serge Auckland wrote:
"wb" wrote in message
...
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I
have used a standard car engine oil.

Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50?

S.
thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen
the long threads that never come to any consensus.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Actually, sewing machines run at high speed and have lightweight parts with
small bearing pressures. Turntables operate at low rpm and have very high
bearing pressures at the bottom of the turntable shaft, where the thrust
ball is situated. (Much the same but inverted for inverted bearings). This
is especially so with some of the high-mass turntables. Consequently, I
would not want to use a light machine oil as is suitable for sewing
machines, but a heavier oil, like engine oil for my turntable bearing. My
own turntables both recommend engine oil, but point out that unless the
bearing has to be drained for any reason, the oil that is provided from new
is sufficient for life. My turntables are both over 20 years old and working
fully to spec.

http://audiopages.googlepages.com/currentsystem

S.

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:53:22 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
wrote:


"Sonic_Hero" wrote in message
. ..
I would visit your local sewing machine dealer and pick up some sewing
machine oil. I don't think I'd use sump oil.

Thinking about it, sewing machine oil would share many of the properties
required for turntable use: *non-pressurized system, *relatively cool
environment, *long life, *relatively low RPM, etc, etc.

Not really the properties of sump oil at all.

Bill.

"wb" wrote in message
...
Serge Auckland wrote:
"wb" wrote in message
...
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I
have used a standard car engine oil.

Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50?

S.
thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen
the long threads that never come to any consensus.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Actually, sewing machines run at high speed and have lightweight parts with
small bearing pressures. Turntables operate at low rpm and have very high
bearing pressures at the bottom of the turntable shaft, where the thrust
ball is situated. (Much the same but inverted for inverted bearings). This
is especially so with some of the high-mass turntables. Consequently, I
would not want to use a light machine oil as is suitable for sewing
machines, but a heavier oil, like engine oil for my turntable bearing. My
own turntables both recommend engine oil, but point out that unless the
bearing has to be drained for any reason, the oil that is provided from new
is sufficient for life. My turntables are both over 20 years old and working
fully to spec.

http://audiopages.googlepages.com/currentsystem

S.



I found an interesting trick when I had a Connoisseur BD1 - this had a
single ball bearing for thrust. If I used thick enough oil it would
not seep out past the shaft, and I could actually float the turntable
on oil, eliminating bearing noise entirely. It would take three or
four months for enough oil to escape before it sat back down on the
thrust ball.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Serge Auckland]

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:53:22 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
wrote:


"Sonic_Hero" wrote in message
...
I would visit your local sewing machine dealer and pick up some sewing
machine oil. I don't think I'd use sump oil.

Thinking about it, sewing machine oil would share many of the properties
required for turntable use: *non-pressurized system, *relatively cool
environment, *long life, *relatively low RPM, etc, etc.

Not really the properties of sump oil at all.

Bill.

"wb" wrote in message
...
Serge Auckland wrote:
"wb" wrote in message
...
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I
have used a standard car engine oil.

Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams
20-50?

S.
thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have
seen
the long threads that never come to any consensus.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Actually, sewing machines run at high speed and have lightweight parts
with
small bearing pressures. Turntables operate at low rpm and have very high
bearing pressures at the bottom of the turntable shaft, where the thrust
ball is situated. (Much the same but inverted for inverted bearings).
This
is especially so with some of the high-mass turntables. Consequently, I
would not want to use a light machine oil as is suitable for sewing
machines, but a heavier oil, like engine oil for my turntable bearing. My
own turntables both recommend engine oil, but point out that unless the
bearing has to be drained for any reason, the oil that is provided from
new
is sufficient for life. My turntables are both over 20 years old and
working
fully to spec.

http://audiopages.googlepages.com/currentsystem

S.



I found an interesting trick when I had a Connoisseur BD1 - this had a
single ball bearing for thrust. If I used thick enough oil it would
not seep out past the shaft, and I could actually float the turntable
on oil, eliminating bearing noise entirely. It would take three or
four months for enough oil to escape before it sat back down on the
thrust ball.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Nice one! Yes, I remember that with my own BD1. Even with ordinary engine
oil, the DB1 would take a long time to settle down. Unfortunately, when the
oil *was* finally pushed out, it would make a puddle on the deck. And never
mind that the VTA changed as the TT came down, but I for one didn't worry
about the niceties of VTA in those days.

[GregS]

In article , wrote:
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

Snake oil.

Or, Whale oil.

grge

[AZ Nomad]

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:17:25 +1300, Sonic_Hero wrote:


I would visit your local sewing machine dealer and pick up some sewing
machine oil. I don't think I'd use sump oil.

Thinking about it, sewing machine oil would share many of the properties
required for turntable use: *non-pressurized system, *relatively cool
environment, *long life, *relatively low RPM, etc, etc.

Not really the properties of sump oil at all.

When I owned a lynn axis, sewing machine oil worked just fine on its bearing.
I only had to supply oil once to make up for oil lost during packing the
TT over the course of 5 moves.

[John Jensen]

I am reminded of a discussion I had with somone who had just joined Castrol.
This was about 45 years ago. This person was not an engineer but he
immediately started telling me about the virtues of Castrol, that it had
whale sperm as a 'special ingredient'.. This I could not believe. I asked
him to check on it. Might it be oil from a sperm whale? He checked the
next day and said I was right. He sheepishly acknowledged it.

John

"GregS" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

Snake oil.

Or, Whale oil.

grge

[wb]

Thanks to everyone for the guidance.
I decided to go with good old sae 20 oil, commonly called motor oil. Not
to be confused with engine oil. This has no additives. Suprisingly 3 in
1 sells some in small plastic "cans". Not the household oil but motor
oil. This is the stuff that was always recommended for the brass
bearings and sleeves in ac motors.
If I could not have found and economical quanity of this I would have
use Mobil1 but prefer the no additives feature. Sewing machine oil, as
stated by others, would just not be good at the pressure points. I did
contact Joel who apparntly has the secret formula for Thorens oil but
still opted for my improvised choice. I can't imagine any problems with
it. Maybe someday someone will enlighten us all as to what properties
Thorens had in mind for their bearings. I don't forsee having to clean
and replenish mine until that day. I've already spent way too much time
thinking about this......

[Karl Uppiano]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Karl Uppiano" wrote in message
news:CgnEh.4239$tR1.867@trnddc05
But seriously, folks...

I would visit a watchmaker, and ask for a small amount of
the oil that they use on the slower-turning, higher load
shafts. Clock oil is designed to evaporate less over time.

Clocks use miniscule amounts of oil compared to a TT bearing.

Automotive oil has detergents and is designed for high
temperature applications, being pumped from a sump.
Evaporation is not a primary concern with automotive
motor oil.

Huh? Motor oil runs at 212 F or more, with a filtered port and then free
to the atmosphere, for 120 or more hours with negligable evaporation, and
evaporation isn't a concern?

I said it wasn't a primary concern, compared to, say, viscosity breakdown
under high temperature and pressure, or scorching. I'm saying it isn't a
factor in the lubrication aspect, because if it evaporates, more is being
pumped in continuously. And there is more than enough in the oil pan, which
the operator is supposed to check and replenish regularly. None of that
happens in clocks and turntables.

Historically, there has been some concern about how the detergents behave,
but motor oil has gone through a lot of changes over the years.

[TR1TIUM]

Originally Posted by wb

What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?

Excellent bearing oil is sold by RADIO SHACK It's in a small pen like tube "Teflon Oil" and is good from minus 45 degrees up to 450 degrees!

The tiny teflon particules fill rough spots in the ground bearing shaft.

As always clean well before oiling once a year or so.

Mobil One is OK since its synthetic there is very little ordor.

triti