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#1
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
I have a large number of MP3 files that I'm streaming and I have an issue
with the variance in the overall level of the files. I'm looking for some software that I can batch adjust the max level on each file. I don't want to tamper with the dynamics of the file (ie no compression) just the overall level. If someone could make a suggestion it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Mark |
#2
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"Clubsprint" wrote in message ... I have a large number of MP3 files that I'm streaming and I have an issue with the variance in the overall level of the files. I'm looking for some software that I can batch adjust the max level on each file. I don't want to tamper with the dynamics of the file (ie no compression) just the overall level. If someone could make a suggestion it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks I'm interested too. I have over 42,000 mp3's now, and I have to ride levels constantly. Joe Arnold |
#3
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"flatfish" wrote in message
... On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 23:01:44 -0500, PanHandler wrote: "Clubsprint" wrote in message ... I have a large number of MP3 files that I'm streaming and I have an issue with the variance in the overall level of the files. I'm looking for some software that I can batch adjust the max level on each file. I don't want to tamper with the dynamics of the file (ie no compression) just the overall level. If someone could make a suggestion it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks I'm interested too. I have over 42,000 mp3's now, and I have to ride levels constantly. Joe Arnold Sony Soundforge Batch Converter will apply anything you like to whatever files you specify.. You might like to give MP3Gain a try. It can be found at http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/ and it's freeware. |
#4
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"Clubsprint" wrote in message.. I don't want to tamper with the dynamics of the file (ie no compression) just the overall level. This part ain't gonna happen unless you find a piece of software that lowers the level of every file to match the quietest. |
#5
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 23:25:12 -0500, "GlowingBlueMist"
wrote: "flatfish" wrote in message ... On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 23:01:44 -0500, PanHandler wrote: "Clubsprint" wrote in message ... I have a large number of MP3 files that I'm streaming and I have an issue with the variance in the overall level of the files. I'm looking for some software that I can batch adjust the max level on each file. I don't want to tamper with the dynamics of the file (ie no compression) just the overall level. If someone could make a suggestion it would be greatly appreciated. You might like to give MP3Gain a try. It can be found at http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/ and it's freeware. I advocate MP3 Gain. It writes code to the header to tell your player to play hotter or cooler but doesn't re-write any audio data. You can remove the gain adjustment at any time non destructively. If you put it in another group it can be a different gain in that group. I'm not sure which players support it, but I think most do. Julian |
#6
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 06:50:13 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
wrote: "Clubsprint" wrote in message.. I don't want to tamper with the dynamics of the file (ie no compression) just the overall level. This part ain't gonna happen unless you find a piece of software that lowers the level of every file to match the quietest. That's what MP3 Gain does. Julian |
#7
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message news:FG1sg.2528$F8.493@trnddc02... I don't want to tamper with the dynamics of the file (ie no compression) just the overall level. This part ain't gonna happen unless you find a piece of software that lowers the level of every file to match the quietest. Not necessarily so. He doesn't specify peak or average level, so simply adjusting all files to peak at 0dB Dfs, will match the overall *peak* levels, and is what most normalising programs do. MrT. |
#8
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 17:22:07 +1000, "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote:
"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message news:FG1sg.2528$F8.493@trnddc02... I don't want to tamper with the dynamics of the file (ie no compression) just the overall level. This part ain't gonna happen unless you find a piece of software that lowers the level of every file to match the quietest. Not necessarily so. He doesn't specify peak or average level, so simply adjusting all files to peak at 0dB Dfs, will match the overall *peak* levels, and is what most normalising programs do. That isn't good enough. A tune with a low average to peak ratio will still sound too quiet. MP3 Gain looks at average to peak ratios and analyzes the perceived quietest track of a group and then lowers the other to produce a similar volume. Julian |
#9
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 00:25:09 -0700, Julian
wrote: That isn't good enough. A tune with a low average to peak ratio will still sound too quiet. MP3 Gain looks at average to peak ratios and analyzes the perceived quietest track of a group and then lowers the other to produce a similar volume. How does it cope with a group of files including an acoustic ballad and a hyper-compressed rock song? |
#10
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Sun, 9 Jul 2006 17:22:07 +1000, "Mr.T" MrT@home wrote:
Not necessarily so. He doesn't specify peak or average level, so simply adjusting all files to peak at 0dB Dfs, will match the overall *peak* levels, and is what most normalising programs do. Unfortunately some, particularly those in consumer-level programs, try to raise the average level. This can cause unpleasant effects, including clipping. |
#11
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3files
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 00:25:09 -0700, Julian wrote: That isn't good enough. A tune with a low average to peak ratio will still sound too quiet. MP3 Gain looks at average to peak ratios and analyzes the perceived quietest track of a group and then lowers the other to produce a similar volume. How does it cope with a group of files including an acoustic ballad and a hyper-compressed rock song? It'll probably end up making the hyper-compressed rock song pretty quiet. -- http://pcguyelevated.ytmnd.com/ |
#12
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:39:20 +0100, Laurence Payne
lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote: Unfortunately some, particularly those in consumer-level programs, try to raise the average level. This can cause unpleasant effects, including clipping. Pretty sure this one doesn't clip. There's a lot of information at the web site. I recommend looking at it. Been a while since I read it but seemed like a well thought out approach at that time. Julian |
#13
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3files
flatfish wrote:
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 23:01:44 -0500, PanHandler wrote: "Clubsprint" wrote in message ... I have a large number of MP3 files that I'm streaming and I have an issue with the variance in the overall level of the files. I'm looking for some software that I can batch adjust the max level on each file. I don't want to tamper with the dynamics of the file (ie no compression) just the overall level. If someone could make a suggestion it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks I'm interested too. I have over 42,000 mp3's now, and I have to ride levels constantly. Joe Arnold Sony Soundforge Batch Converter will apply anything you like to whatever files you specify.. Like ANY other sound editor. Unfortunately, it will re-encode your MP3's, which is a BAD THING. -- http://pcguyelevated.ytmnd.com/ |
#14
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 15:57:40 -0400, NRen2k5 wrote:
flatfish wrote: On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 23:01:44 -0500, PanHandler wrote: "Clubsprint" wrote in message ... I have a large number of MP3 files that I'm streaming and I have an issue with the variance in the overall level of the files. I'm looking for some software that I can batch adjust the max level on each file.oe Arnold Sony Soundforge Batch Converter will apply anything you like to whatever files you specify.. Like ANY other sound editor. Unfortunately, it will re-encode your MP3's, which is a BAD THING. That's why to use MP3 Gain. It does NOT re-encode your MP3's. It only writes a volume play back level to the header which can be removed at any time. Julian |
#15
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"Julian" wrote in message ... On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 15:57:40 -0400, NRen2k5 wrote: flatfish wrote: On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 23:01:44 -0500, PanHandler wrote: "Clubsprint" wrote in message ... I have a large number of MP3 files that I'm streaming and I have an issue with the variance in the overall level of the files. I'm looking for some software that I can batch adjust the max level on each file.oe Arnold Sony Soundforge Batch Converter will apply anything you like to whatever files you specify.. Like ANY other sound editor. Unfortunately, it will re-encode your MP3's, which is a BAD THING. That's why to use MP3 Gain. It does NOT re-encode your MP3's. It only writes a volume play back level to the header which can be removed at any time. Julian Thanks for your comments on this software... I'll have look at it, though I don't do a lot of MP3-ing. -- David Morgan (MAMS) http://www.m-a-m-s.com Morgan Audio Media Service Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901 _______________________________________ http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com |
#16
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
... On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 00:25:09 -0700, Julian wrote: That isn't good enough. A tune with a low average to peak ratio will still sound too quiet. MP3 Gain looks at average to peak ratios and analyzes the perceived quietest track of a group and then lowers the other to produce a similar volume. How does it cope with a group of files including an acoustic ballad and a hyper-compressed rock song? Mp3Gain has three ways of adjusting the gain; 1 is called Album Gain, this will change the average gain of the album to a certain user defined level (default is 89 db) so some songs will be higher than 89 and some lower but the average for the album will be about 89 this maintains the relative volume between songs; 2 is track gain, this will increase or decrease all songs to a user defined gain, so all songs are at the same volume; 3 is just adding a constant gain to all songs, no analysis is done. For the above example, using album gain you can increase the volume of both songs but the relative volume between songs will remain the same, using track gain the volume of both songs will be about the same. Setting the gain too high will cause clipping. MP3Gain will show you which songs will be clipped prior to applying the adjustment. Pete |
#17
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:42:20 -0700, Julian
wrote: Like ANY other sound editor. Unfortunately, it will re-encode your MP3's, which is a BAD THING. That's why to use MP3 Gain. It does NOT re-encode your MP3's. It only writes a volume play back level to the header which can be removed at any time. Unfortunately that volume reduction is probably achieved digitally by just throwing away bits, which is a bad thing. Anyway do you WANT everything reduced to the level of the quietest? You then have to apply more amplification, bringing noise levels up. |
#18
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message ... On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:42:20 -0700, Julian wrote: Like ANY other sound editor. Unfortunately, it will re-encode your MP3's, which is a BAD THING. That's why to use MP3 Gain. It does NOT re-encode your MP3's. It only writes a volume play back level to the header which can be removed at any time. Unfortunately that volume reduction is probably achieved digitally by just throwing away bits, which is a bad thing. Anyway do you WANT everything reduced to the level of the quietest? You then have to apply more amplification, bringing noise levels up. I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range - but even if it works by lowering... you have another valid 'yuk' point. DM |
#19
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range Simply put... 1. Find max volume among all songs 2. "Turn up the volume" in all others so their max is the same as the loudest. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#20
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:10:55 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote: David Morgan (MAMS) wrote: I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range Simply put... 1. Find max volume among all songs 2. "Turn up the volume" in all others so their max is the same as the loudest. Won't work - can't work. If you have a mixture of music, then peak levels as related to average loudness will vary wildly. The loudest sounding will have highly compressed dynamics, with most of the tune crammed against the limit. If you try to increase the levels of all the others until they sound as loud, they will all be clipped to hell. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#21
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
Don Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:10:55 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote: David Morgan (MAMS) wrote: I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range Simply put... 1. Find max volume among all songs 2. "Turn up the volume" in all others so their max is the same as the loudest. Won't work - can't work. If you have a mixture of music, then peak levels as related to average loudness will vary wildly. The loudest sounding will have highly compressed dynamics, with most of the tune crammed against the limit. If you try to increase the levels of all the others until they sound as loud, they will all be clipped to hell. No, not necessarily *sound* as loud just increase the values in the softer songs until the greatest is equal to the greatest in the loudest song. For example... Loud song greatest value = 29000 Song to be changed, greatest value = 24,500 (29000)-(24500) = 4500. Therefore, all values in this song are to be increased by 4500 when played. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#22
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:05:17 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:10:55 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote: David Morgan (MAMS) wrote: I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range Simply put... 1. Find max volume among all songs 2. "Turn up the volume" in all others so their max is the same as the loudest. Won't work - can't work. If you have a mixture of music, then peak levels as related to average loudness will vary wildly. The loudest sounding will have highly compressed dynamics, with most of the tune crammed against the limit. If you try to increase the levels of all the others until they sound as loud, they will all be clipped to hell. No, not necessarily *sound* as loud just increase the values in the softer songs until the greatest is equal to the greatest in the loudest song. For example... Loud song greatest value = 29000 Song to be changed, greatest value = 24,500 (29000)-(24500) = 4500. Therefore, all values in this song are to be increased by 4500 when played. But what does that do? They are just numbers, and they have only the most tangential relationship to the perceived playing of the track - which is what this is all about. Incidentally the maths is all off too. You can't do this by adding numbers, you have to multiply. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#23
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
Don Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:10:55 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote: David Morgan (MAMS) wrote: I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range Simply put... 1. Find max volume among all songs 2. "Turn up the volume" in all others so their max is the same as the loudest. Won't work - can't work. If you have a mixture of music, then peak levels as related to average loudness will vary wildly. The loudest sounding will have highly compressed dynamics, with most of the tune crammed against the limit. If you try to increase the levels of all the others until they sound as loud, they will all be clipped to hell. What you're forgetting here is that the MP3 is not just PCM data with absolute scalar values for every sample. There is a "volume" field in the header which tells the playback application how loud to play the thing. By tweaking THAT, you can turn down the level of a track without affecting the actual resolution (except of course the resolution is still limited by the converters at the final playback, and if the gain is lowered digitally, that will be reduced... still, that's a marginal problem at best). The thing is, that field is ALWAYS maxed out whenever anyone hands you an MP3, because all the encoders want their products to play back as loudly as possible. So you can usually turn it down, but seldom can you turn it up. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#25
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
Scott Dorsey wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:10:55 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote: David Morgan (MAMS) wrote: I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range Simply put... 1. Find max volume among all songs 2. "Turn up the volume" in all others so their max is the same as the loudest. Won't work - can't work. If you have a mixture of music, then peak levels as related to average loudness will vary wildly. The loudest sounding will have highly compressed dynamics, with most of the tune crammed against the limit. If you try to increase the levels of all the others until they sound as loud, they will all be clipped to hell. What you're forgetting here is that the MP3 is not just PCM data with absolute scalar values for every sample. There is a "volume" field in the header which tells the playback application how loud to play the thing. By tweaking THAT, you can turn down the level of a track without affecting the actual resolution (except of course the resolution is still limited by the converters at the final playback, and if the gain is lowered digitally, that will be reduced... still, that's a marginal problem at best). The thing is, that field is ALWAYS maxed out whenever anyone hands you an MP3, because all the encoders want their products to play back as loudly as possible. So you can usually turn it down, but seldom can you turn it up. That's interesting Scott. Is there a handy application to edit the header ? Graham |
#26
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3files
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message ... On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:42:20 -0700, Julian wrote: Like ANY other sound editor. Unfortunately, it will re-encode your MP3's, which is a BAD THING. That's why to use MP3 Gain. It does NOT re-encode your MP3's. It only writes a volume play back level to the header which can be removed at any time. Unfortunately that volume reduction is probably achieved digitally by just throwing away bits, which is a bad thing. It doesn't throw away bits. What it does is it changes "global gain" values. Doing so is totally lossless and reversible. Anyway do you WANT everything reduced to the level of the quietest? You then have to apply more amplification, bringing noise levels up. So? And you don't have to reduce them to the level of the quietest. What you can do is apply "track gain" so that all the songs are a certain volume, for example 89dB, and then use "constant gain" to bring the volume of every song up or down by the same amount. I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range - but even if it works by lowering... you have another valid 'yuk' point. MP3Gain doesn't touch dynamic range. -- http://pcguyelevated.ytmnd.com/ |
#27
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3files
Scott Dorsey wrote:
The thing is, that field is ALWAYS maxed out whenever anyone hands you an MP3, because all the encoders want their products to play back as loudly as possible. So you can usually turn it down, but seldom can you turn it up. No. It's the music industry that wants their *songs* to play as loudly as possible, so they use dynamic compression to be able to make them as loud as possible on CD. You would never *want* to turn *up* the gain on these files, since it will make the already-existing clipping even worse, but you can do it. -- http://pcguyelevated.ytmnd.com/ |
#28
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"NRen2k5" wrote in message ... David Morgan (MAMS) wrote: "Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message ... On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:42:20 -0700, Julian wrote: Like ANY other sound editor. Unfortunately, it will re-encode your MP3's, which is a BAD THING. That's why to use MP3 Gain. It does NOT re-encode your MP3's. It only writes a volume play back level to the header which can be removed at any time. Unfortunately that volume reduction is probably achieved digitally by just throwing away bits, which is a bad thing. It doesn't throw away bits. What it does is it changes "global gain" values. Doing so is totally lossless and reversible. Anyway do you WANT everything reduced to the level of the quietest? You then have to apply more amplification, bringing noise levels up. So? And you don't have to reduce them to the level of the quietest. What you can do is apply "track gain" so that all the songs are a certain volume, for example 89dB, and then use "constant gain" to bring the volume of every song up or down by the same amount. I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range - but even if it works by lowering... you have another valid 'yuk' point. MP3Gain doesn't touch dynamic range. If everything works downward in comparison to the reference... but if gain is increased (especially on material where peaks are likely already near FS) limiting will have to come into play, altering dynamics. -- David Morgan (MAMS) http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com Morgan Audio Media Service Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901 _______________________________________ http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com |
#29
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"NRen2k5" wrote in message ... Scott Dorsey wrote: The thing is, that field is ALWAYS maxed out whenever anyone hands you an MP3, because all the encoders want their products to play back as loudly as possible. So you can usually turn it down, but seldom can you turn it up. No. It's the music industry that wants their *songs* to play as loudly as possible, so they use dynamic compression to be able to make them as loud as possible on CD. You would never *want* to turn *up* the gain on these files, since it will make the already-existing clipping even worse, but you can do it. Thus altering dynamic range even further, or living with massive distortion, the latter of which I'd hope most products would not consider as an option. |
#30
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3files
In article ,
NRen2k5 wrote: Scott Dorsey wrote: The thing is, that field is ALWAYS maxed out whenever anyone hands you an MP3, because all the encoders want their products to play back as loudly as possible. So you can usually turn it down, but seldom can you turn it up. No. It's the music industry that wants their *songs* to play as loudly as possible, so they use dynamic compression to be able to make them as loud as possible on CD. That's a different issue altogether. That's not an encoding issue. With CD, where you have no encoding, the only way to make playback louder is with abusive compression. With MP3, you have the field available to you when you encode it. Back in the LP days, it was all manual, and you had to put "PLAY THIS RECORD AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE" in the liner notes. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#31
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:05:17 GMT, "dadiOH"
wrote: No, not necessarily *sound* as loud just increase the values in the softer songs until the greatest is equal to the greatest in the loudest song. For example... Loud song greatest value = 29000 Song to be changed, greatest value = 24,500 (29000)-(24500) = 4500. Therefore, all values in this song are to be increased by 4500 when played. Which won't make it sound as loud as the compressed song. |
#32
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:19:24 -0400, NRen2k5 wrote:
Unfortunately that volume reduction is probably achieved digitally by just throwing away bits, which is a bad thing. It doesn't throw away bits. What it does is it changes "global gain" values. Doing so is totally lossless and reversible. But, while it is happening, the system is throwing away bits. Anyway do you WANT everything reduced to the level of the quietest? You then have to apply more amplification, bringing noise levels up. So? You don't see that as undesirable? And you don't have to reduce them to the level of the quietest. What you can do is apply "track gain" so that all the songs are a certain volume, for example 89dB, and then use "constant gain" to bring the volume of every song up or down by the same amount. I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range - but even if it works by lowering... you have another valid 'yuk' point. MP3Gain doesn't touch dynamic range. Of course it does. The noise floor of the playback system isn't going to go away. Reducing signal level will bring peaks nearer to the noise floor, i.e. reduce dynamic range. |
#33
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
Laurence Payne lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:
MP3Gain doesn't touch dynamic range. Of course it does. The noise floor of the playback system isn't going to go away. Reducing signal level will bring peaks nearer to the noise floor, i.e. reduce dynamic range. Yes, but it's adjusting the level right before the converters, not earlier in the chain. So your only worry is the noise floor of the converters themselves. And frankly, this being MP3, you have far more serious things to worry about than that. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#34
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
Eeyore wrote:
Kludge writes: The thing is, that field is ALWAYS maxed out whenever anyone hands you an MP3, because all the encoders want their products to play back as loudly as possible. So you can usually turn it down, but seldom can you turn it up. That's interesting Scott. Is there a handy application to edit the header ? The MP3Gain application that started out this horrible thread will allow you to adjust that field. I don't know an easy way to edit the other header info although of course there are always binary editing tools like git and emacs to allow you to do it by hand. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#35
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
Don Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:05:17 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote: Don Pearce wrote: On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:10:55 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote: David Morgan (MAMS) wrote: I had a look, and I can't see how the device works without modifying dynamic range Simply put... 1. Find max volume among all songs 2. "Turn up the volume" in all others so their max is the same as the loudest. Won't work - can't work. If you have a mixture of music, then peak levels as related to average loudness will vary wildly. The loudest sounding will have highly compressed dynamics, with most of the tune crammed against the limit. If you try to increase the levels of all the others until they sound as loud, they will all be clipped to hell. No, not necessarily *sound* as loud just increase the values in the softer songs until the greatest is equal to the greatest in the loudest song. For example... Loud song greatest value = 29000 Song to be changed, greatest value = 24,500 (29000)-(24500) = 4500. Therefore, all values in this song are to be increased by 4500 when played. But what does that do? They are just numbers, and they have only the most tangential relationship to the perceived playing of the track - which is what this is all about. The playing of the track involves (after decoding to wave) interpretation of numbers - that's all a file is - in a meaningful way to produce the desired sound; in this case, sound. What the numbers do in this case is to tell the player to increase the volume of each sound by a specific amount. ______________ Incidentally the maths is all off too. You can't do this by adding numbers, you have to multiply. No, one can certainly do binary addition. Things may have changed but in the not too distant past there were no op codes for multiplication. Doesn't matter one way or the other because multiplication is nothing more than repetitive addition. -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#36
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
Laurence Payne wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:05:17 GMT, "dadiOH" wrote: No, not necessarily *sound* as loud just increase the values in the softer songs until the greatest is equal to the greatest in the loudest song. For example... Loud song greatest value = 29000 Song to be changed, greatest value = 24,500 (29000)-(24500) = 4500. Therefore, all values in this song are to be increased by 4500 when played. Which won't make it sound as loud as the compressed song. Did you read this part?... No, not necessarily *sound* as loud just increase the values in the softer songs until the greatest is equal to the greatest in the loudest song. For example... -- dadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico |
#37
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3files
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
"NRen2k5" wrote in message ... Scott Dorsey wrote: The thing is, that field is ALWAYS maxed out whenever anyone hands you an MP3, because all the encoders want their products to play back as loudly as possible. So you can usually turn it down, but seldom can you turn it up. No. It's the music industry that wants their *songs* to play as loudly as possible, so they use dynamic compression to be able to make them as loud as possible on CD. You would never *want* to turn *up* the gain on these files, since it will make the already-existing clipping even worse, but you can do it. Thus altering dynamic range even further, or living with massive distortion, the latter of which I'd hope most products would not consider as an option. No, dynamic range is not altered at all. The massive distortion can be undone. MP3 doesn't really have a noise ceiling or floor like PCM does. The signal peaks don't actually get clipped in the MP3 itself... just in the playback. So this "clipping" distortion can be fixed by just reducing the gain of the MP3. -- http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/ http://theunfunnysequel.ytmnd.com/ http://pcguyelevated.ytmnd.com/ http://lolpilotse.ytmnd.com/ |
#38
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... Back in the LP days, it was all manual, and you had to put "PLAY THIS RECORD AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE" in the liner notes. ???? LP's used compression the same as most CD's. In fact the need for compression was greater because of the limited dynamic range. Just because mastering engineers have lost their way these days is irrelevant to the technical necessities. Not only that, but with LP you *could* push the peak cutting levels higher than RIAA recommendations as well. It's *impossible* to push peak CD levels higher than Dfs though. MrT. |
#39
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message ... "Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... Back in the LP days, it was all manual, and you had to put "PLAY THIS RECORD AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE" in the liner notes. ???? LP's used compression the same as most CD's. In fact the need for compression was greater because of the limited dynamic range. Just because mastering engineers have lost their way these days is irrelevant to the technical necessities. Not only that, but with LP you *could* push the peak cutting levels higher than RIAA recommendations as well. It's *impossible* to push peak CD levels higher than Dfs though. MrT. Careful, Mr. T.... you're preaching to the only guy on the r.a.p. who is still making LP record masters in his basement. ;-) |
#40
Posted to uk.rec.audio,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,alt.music.mp3.hardware,alt.music.mp3
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Advice needed - Looking for software to batch level adjust MP3 files
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
if gain is increased (especially on material where peaks are likely already near FS) limiting will have to come into play, altering dynamics. True, if we accept that everything will have peaks at or near full scale. Much to my surprise, there are some older tracks in my collection that do NOT hit full scale, even on peaks. Part of that whole dated concept of "albums" where dynamic expression extended from track to track. -- "It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!" - Lorin David Schultz in the control room making even bad news sound good (Remove spamblock to reply) |
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