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#1
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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83 Rectifier advice needed
I am designing and building a px25 class A amp, given the simplicity of the circuitry design may be an overstatement however I would like to use the 83 Mercury Vapour Rectifier. I am unsure about the need to heat the filament before applying 350V AC to the rectifier's anodes. Data sheets on the 866A are quite specific "no HT before a warm-up period" howver I can find no such warnings in any of my info on the 83. Does anyone have any information or experience of using this rectifier that they could pass on?
Regards john |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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83 Rectifier advice needed
John wrote: I am designing and building a px25 class A amp, given the simplicity of the circuitry design may be an overstatement however I would like to use the 83 Mercury Vapour Rectifier. I am unsure about the need to heat the filament before applying 350V AC to the rectifier's anodes. Data sheets on the 866A are quite specific "no HT before a warm-up period" howver I can find no such warnings in any of my info on the 83. Does anyone have any information or experience of using this rectifier that they could pass on? Regards john The 83 is a low-loss mercury rectifier with no worries as to the rectifier itself when AC hits it. The 866A is a half-wave rectifier, the 83 a full wave, so apart from their construction differences, they are functionally different beasts as well. Apart from all that, _why_ would you use an 83? Looks? Two diodes and two resistors (if installed in a 4-pin socket) will do the trick at a much lower load on your transformer. Two diodes alone if directly in-circuit. The only application I have seen for them commonly are in (mostly Hickok) tube testers, and of those, most I have seen have the SS replacement as noted. Hickok wanted the low loss and stability of the 83 in the days before reliable silicon came along, and the dangers of mercury were not well known. Add to this, it is a troublesome tube given to slow failure. Today there is no earthly reason for such a tube. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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83 Rectifier advice needed
Hi,
The 83 was originally designed for radios with class-B output stages in 1932. It was not pre-heated in that application, and presumably they got away with it. However class B had a very short vogue and the 83 went out of use within a year. If it hadn't been for Hickok rediscovering it, 83s would be as rare now as 82s are. The 83 would be a poor choice of rectifier, because it produces RF hash that needs to be filtered out of the B+, and also because it is very prone to arcover from line transients. If you do use it, a line fuse is absolutely necessary. Hickok can get away with using the 83 since the the B+ is only 150V in a tube tester. Likewise the lack of preheat, since no current flows until the Test button is pushed. Alan |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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83 Rectifier advice needed
John Frake wrote in message ...
I am designing and building a px25 class A amp, given the simplicity of the circuitry design may be an overstatement however I would like to use the 83 Mercury Vapour Rectifier. I am unsure about the need to heat the filament before applying 350V AC to the rectifier's anodes. Data sheets on the 866A are quite specific "no HT before a warm-up period" howver I can find no such warnings in any of my info on the 83. Does anyone have any information or experience of using this rectifier that they could pass on? Hi John: Peter and Alan gave you all the technical reasons not to use the 83. All I can tell you is that my amp uses the 83 and it's easily one of the best amps I have heard. It's a single-ended 45 amp that I purchased from a friend. He had it custom built with top quality parts. A number of years back, my friend brought the amp to one of the NY Noise shows and he thought it was one of the best amps at the show. Below are two links to photos of the amp. In the second photo, you will see two toggle switches on the back of the amp. One is for AC and the other is for B+. After turning on the AC switch, I wait a minimum of 5 minutes (usually longer), before I turn on the B+. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...123/set45a.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...123/set45b.jpg Gerry |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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83 Rectifier advice needed
Hi Gerry Nice amp. What kind of 45's are those? They seem pretty big. Bob H. |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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83 Rectifier advice needed
Peter Wieck wrote:
John wrote: I am designing and building a px25 class A amp, given the simplicity of the circuitry design may be an overstatement however I would like to use the 83 Mercury Vapour Rectifier. I am unsure about the need to heat the filament before applying 350V AC to the rectifier's anodes. Data sheets on the 866A are quite specific "no HT before a warm-up period" howver I can find no such warnings in any of my info on the 83. Does anyone have any information or experience of using this rectifier that they could pass on? Regards john The 83 is a low-loss mercury rectifier with no worries as to the rectifier itself when AC hits it. The 866A is a half-wave rectifier, the 83 a full wave, so apart from their construction differences, they are functionally different beasts as well. Apart from all that, _why_ would you use an 83? Looks? Two diodes and two resistors (if installed in a 4-pin socket) Using a resistor defeats the idea of the 83, 83's, like other gas tubes, have a (relatively) constant voltage drop. -- Ned Carlson SW side of Chicago, USA www.tubezone.net |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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83 Rectifier advice needed
Fristly thank you to all of you for the replies. My reason for using the 83 is basically low voltage drop, looks, novelty value and that I have 4 of them. I will use Rf chokes to filter out the hash. I know my reasons are not all very objective but then neither are PX25 Se amps. I have a 350- 320-0-320-350 volts MT and can use a seperate 5.3v 3A transformer for the 83 heater if necessary. If 83s are as unreliable as suggested I may decide to switch to a 5U4G or 5AR4 or GZ32.
Thanks again for the comments john On 10/07/2006 00:19:45 Alan Douglas adouglasatgis.net wrote: Hi, The 83 was originally designed for radios with class-B output stages in 1932. It was not pre-heated in that application, and presumably they got away with it. However class B had a very short vogue and the 83 went out of use within a year. If it hadn't been for Hickok rediscovering it, 83s would be as rare now as 82s are. The 83 would be a poor choice of rectifier, because it produces RF hash that needs to be filtered out of the B+, and also because it is very prone to arcover from line transients. If you do use it, a line fuse is absolutely necessary. Hickok can get away with using the 83 since the the B+ is only 150V in a tube tester. Likewise the lack of preheat, since no current flows until the Test button is pushed. Alan |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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83 Rectifier advice needed
Thats a very pretty amp with avery unusual layout. Much impressed. I have a few 45s I am try them later. have some VT52s but they are going to fund this amp. Some decisions are hard!
regards john On 10/07/2006 03:40:35 "GerryE123" wrote: I am designing and building a px25 class A amp, given the simplicity of the circuitry design may be an overstatement however I would like to use the 83 Mercury Vapour Rectifier. I am unsure about the need to heat the filament before applying 350V AC to the rectifier's anodes. Data sheets on the 866A are quite specific "no HT before a warm-up period" howver I can find no such warnings in any of my info on the 83. Does anyone have any information or experience of using this rectifier that they could pass on? Hi John: Peter and Alan gave you all the technical reasons not to use the 83. All I can tell you is that my amp uses the 83 and it's easily one of the best amps I have heard. It's a single-ended 45 amp that I purchased from a friend. He had it custom built with top quality parts. A number of years back, my friend brought the amp to one of the NY Noise shows and he thought it was one of the best amps at the show. Below are two links to photos of the amp. In the second photo, you will see two toggle switches on the back of the amp. One is for AC and the other is for B+. After turning on the AC switch, I wait a minimum of 5 minutes (usually longer), before I turn on the B+. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...123/set45a.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...123/set45b.jpg Gerry |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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83 Rectifier advice needed
GerryE123 wrote: http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...123/set45a.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...123/set45b.jpg NICE Eye-Candy in an industrial no-nonsense sort of way. "Looks" are a perfectly acceptable reason for choosing a tube. But as Alan stated, be sure to use a line fuse _AND_ when the 83 begins to crap out, expect all sorts of strange behavior. At the end of its life, it will start off perfectly nicely, but an hour or two start to degrade, finally to nothing at all. As it gets closer and closer to final death (and assuming no spectacular failures), that delay will become shorter and shorter. Of course, this will not show up on a tube tester, because one is unlikely to leave it under test for the necessary time. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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83 Rectifier advice needed
Thanks for the advice, if the HT drain is about 120Ma I will start with a 250ma quick blow fuse and adjust if necessary
regaatds John On 10/07/2006 14:51:04 "Peter Wieck" wrote: GerryE123 wrote: http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...123/set45a.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...123/set45b.jpg NICE Eye-Candy in an industrial no-nonsense sort of way. "Looks" are a perfectly acceptable reason for choosing a tube. But as Alan stated, be sure to use a line fuse _AND_ when the 83 begins to crap out, expect all sorts of strange behavior. At the end of its life, it will start off perfectly nicely, but an hour or two start to degrade, finally to nothing at all. As it gets closer and closer to final death (and assuming no spectacular failures), that delay will become shorter and shorter. Of course, this will not show up on a tube tester, because one is unlikely to leave it under test for the necessary time. Peter Wieck Wyncote, PA |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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83 Rectifier advice needed
"Bob H." wrote in message
ps.com... Hi Gerry Nice amp. What kind of 45's are those? They seem pretty big. Bob H. Thanks Bob and John. Bob - those are EML solid-plate 45s. They are currently the "hot" 45 in the market. People seem to prefer them to the EML mesh-plate 45s. Some people also like the TJ pseudo "mesh-plate" 45s. A few of us have compared the EMLs to old stock 45s and depending on which brand of old-stock 45s were used, the EMLs were either a little or much better. I recently did get to do a brief comparison of my amp to a 2 -3 times more expensive Tucker/Exemplar SE 45 and my amp was at least as good in every parameter except where it blew away the T/E in the low frequencies. Below is one more link to my amp showing the underside. As you can see, clean and simple. Also, the built in attenuators allow for direct source connection. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...123/set45c.jpg Gerry |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.tubes
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83 Rectifier advice needed
It's nice to see 45's being made. I think I'll convert my test amp to
45's after sampling 2a3's. I've used 45's as a line driver in a ultrapath line amp (ala Jack Elliano), I ran a 27, a 26, a 6sn7. All were nice tubes, but the 45 was easily the best one by far. It was lightning fast, had great depth, great bass, and great highs. Luckily I stocked up on them years ago, so no worries there. Enjoy Bob H. |
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