[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"George M. Middius" cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote in message
...

Oh, so by "accuracy" you mean to convey something as blunt as not
substituting strings for horns. Of course we can all agree with that.

Same thing....

Maybe to you....


George. Don't you remember the good old days when violins
used on recording sessions were fitted with horns, rather like
those found on old phonographs?

I once did an "acoustic recording" straight to wax, just as they
used to do in the 20s. I copied the studio layout from the famous
RCA photograph.

The recording machine had two horns, set 180 degrees apart,
one for the vocal one for the orchestra. You controlled the
record level and balance by carefully sliding a piece of angora
wool in the mouths of the recording horns. That may well be
the origin of the word "pad" (attenuator)

Now, that's "accuracy" :-)

Regards
Iain

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

"George M. Middius" cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote in message
...

Oh, so by "accuracy" you mean to convey something as blunt as not
substituting strings for horns. Of course we can all agree with that.

Same thing....

Maybe to you....


George. Don't you remember the good old days when violins
used on recording sessions were fitted with horns, rather like
those found on old phonographs?

I once did an "acoustic recording" straight to wax, just as they
used to do in the 20s. I copied the studio layout from the famous
RCA photograph.

The recording machine had two horns, set 180 degrees apart,
one for the vocal one for the orchestra. You controlled the
record level and balance by carefully sliding a piece of angora
wool in the mouths of the recording horns. That may well be
the origin of the word "pad" (attenuator)

Now, that's "accuracy" :-)

I wonder if George can bring himself to admit why people stopped making
recordings by purely mechanical means. Why people stopped using vinyl and
tubes in the mainstream.

Hint: it had a lot to do with a desire for greater sonic accuracy.

[tubegarden]

Hi RATs!

Alternate hint: CDs are cheaper to reproduce and have a much higher
"yield".

Get over it. CD companies want to make money, too.

Happy Ears!
Al

[Arny Krueger]

"tubegarden" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi RATs!

Alternate hint: CDs are cheaper to reproduce and have a much higher
"yield".

This was not true for the first 5 or more years that CDs were produced.

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"tubegarden" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi RATs!

Alternate hint: CDs are cheaper to reproduce and have a much higher
"yield".

This was not true for the first 5 or more years that CDs were produced.

It became true after the second year, at least in the UK. For the first
few months of commercial production, rejects were at 70%. They were
quickly reduced by an order of magnitude, and now stand at about 3%.

Production cost per unit is about 30% of the cost of producing a vinyl
pressing with sleeve.

Iain

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"tubegarden" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi RATs!

Alternate hint: CDs are cheaper to reproduce and have a much higher
"yield".

Get over it. CD companies want to make money, too.

Happy Ears!
Al
¨

Ten points, Al.

The only downside about CD production is that you cannot
punch out the label area, and return the disk to the vat:-)

The cost of CD production is much less than any previous
medium, including, I am told, cassette.

In addition, as far as pop music is concerned, the public's
"quality expectations" have fallen drastically, so returns for
technical reasons (excess compression etc) are few.

Iain

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"tubegarden" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi RATs!

Alternate hint: CDs are cheaper to reproduce and have a much higher
"yield".

This was not true for the first 5 or more years that CDs were produced.

It became true after the second year, at least in the UK.

Might be even be true due to the fact that UK LPs were made to a far higher
standard then LPs were made to in the US.

For the first
few months of commercial production, rejects were at 70%. They were
quickly reduced by an order of magnitude, and now stand at about 3%.

Rejects were only part of the problem.

Production cost per unit is about 30% of the cost of producing a vinyl
pressing with sleeve.

If decent quantities of LPs were still being made...

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

"George M. Middius" cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote in message
...

Oh, so by "accuracy" you mean to convey something as blunt as not
substituting strings for horns. Of course we can all agree with that.

Same thing....

Maybe to you....


George. Don't you remember the good old days when violins
used on recording sessions were fitted with horns, rather like
those found on old phonographs?

I once did an "acoustic recording" straight to wax, just as they
used to do in the 20s. I copied the studio layout from the famous
RCA photograph.

The recording machine had two horns, set 180 degrees apart,
one for the vocal one for the orchestra. You controlled the
record level and balance by carefully sliding a piece of angora
wool in the mouths of the recording horns. That may well be
the origin of the word "pad" (attenuator)

Now, that's "accuracy" :-)

I wonder if George can bring himself to admit why people stopped making
recordings by purely mechanical means.

For me, it was a fascinating part of the recording arts learning
process. I wanted to hear an acoustic session vintage 1926 as
it had been heard in the studio.

Recording, like any other profession is not something one
picks up. It requires study, and a great deal of practice.You
need to work under a master craftsman. You need to study
music theory, look at orchestral scores, and know the classical
repertoire well.

If it were not for your condescending "been there/done that",
Jack of All Trades approach Arny, you could be turning out
better work than your current horrendous offerings. Most first
year trainees leave you miles behind. A recording arts
student is taught the skills of listening and analysis. These take
time to acquire, but are probably the best investment one
could ever make if you really want to be taken seriously as
a recording engineer.

Why people stopped using vinyl and tubes in the mainstream.

Who cares about mainstream:-) Why are you so concerned
with the lowest common denominator?

One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)
from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
the other way. In this part of the world at least, you can buy
almost any SS system at discount. There seems to be quite a
long lead time for tube amps, for which people are willing to
pay the full retail price. What does that tell you?

You seem to move in down-market, impecunious circles, Arny

Hint: it had a lot to do with a desire for greater sonic accuracy.

Nonsense. People choose their system simply because a) they
enjoy the sound which such equipment produces in their
particular listening environment, and b) it suits their budget.
It's that simple. Talk to people, ask them how they make
their decisions.

Quite a large segment of the population here in Scandinavia
has a considerable amount of disposable income. These people,
according to a Swedish dealer of my acquaintance, buy systems
with Tannoy Royal Westminster or B+W Nautilus speakers, an
SME turntable, a CD player and a tube amp, for the reasons I
list in the paragraph above.

Personally, I don't give a silver sixpence what equipment
people choose. The important thing is that they listen to music
and enjoy the experience. That is what matters.

Iain

[Mr.T]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...
One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)

Yes, their term only.

from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
the other way.

Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
seventies did they!!!!
And of course the only ones left are people like you who like the so called
"euphonic distortions". After paying mega dollars, the only reason they
would go the other way now is bankruptcy :-)

In this part of the world at least, you can buy
almost any SS system at discount. There seems to be quite a
long lead time for tube amps, for which people are willing to
pay the full retail price. What does that tell you?

That little demand for valve amps means no mass production cost savings!

Nonsense. People choose their system simply because a) they
enjoy the sound which such equipment produces in their
particular listening environment, and b) it suits their budget.
It's that simple. Talk to people, ask them how they make
their decisions.

The cost of valve amps hasn't "suited" anyones budget for years. Of course
some will always pay a premium to be diferent however.

Personally, I don't give a silver sixpence what equipment
people choose. The important thing is that they listen to music
and enjoy the experience. That is what matters.

And since I'm sure we all do that, why the need for argument?

MrT.

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

Recording, like any other profession is not something one
picks up. It requires study, and a great deal of practice.

Been there, done that.

You need to work under a master craftsman. You need to study
music theory, look at orchestral scores, and know the classical
repertoire well.

Iain, here's a news flash for you that you seem to badly need. Not everybody
who records music, records classical music, or orchestras.

If it were not for your condescending "been there/done that",
Jack of All Trades approach Arny, you could be turning out
better work than your current horrendous offerings.

Iain, you know nothing about my work. Given your outdated, narrow views and
history of endless bad faith, I hope to keep it that way in the interest of
minimizing the ignorant spew that foist off on Usenet.

Most first
year trainees leave you miles behind. A recording arts
student is taught the skills of listening and analysis. These take
time to acquire, but are probably the best investment one
could ever make if you really want to be taken seriously as
a recording engineer.

That would be your second mistake, Iain. I have no interest in being taken
seriously as a recording engineer. Given my education and most of my
professional career, being a mere recording engineer is a gigantic step
down, both professionally and economically. I record live performances of
mostly amateurs out of a sense of service and charity and for fun.

Why people stopped using vinyl and tubes in the mainstream.

Who cares about mainstream:-) Why are you so concerned
with the lowest common denominator?

Contrary to your outdated beliefs Iain, the mainstream is not about the
lowest common denominator.

One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)
from an SS to a tube system.

In fact Iain, almost nobody ever does that any more.

The tube audio system replacement market was very strong in the late 1960s,
but by the mid-late-1970s the audio market, whether low end or high end, was
primarily solid state which it remains to this day.

You really need to get out more. Almost every music system that is bought
today is either the purchaser's first music system, and solid state , or it
is a replacement music system, and it replaces an existing solid state music
system.

[Arny Krueger]

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)

Yes, their term only.

from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
the other way.

Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
seventies did they!!!!

Iain, clearly lives in an alternative universe, doesn't he?

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

Recording, like any other profession is not something one
picks up. It requires study, and a great deal of practice.

Been there, done that.

There you go again:-)

You need to work under a master craftsman. You need to study
music theory, look at orchestral scores, and know the classical
repertoire well.

Iain, here's a news flash for you that you seem to badly need. Not
everybody who records music, records classical music, or orchestras.

Indeed. But the above still applies, just as in the same way that
not all pianists play classical music. But you will find, that most
of the best jazz players for example have a strong classical
technique. Listen to Bach. Was he not the King of Jazz?
I worked a couple of times with the American clarinet legend
Benny Goodman. He used to warm up on "The Forty Eight"

The same goes for recording. A classical background
gives one skills in balance and acoustic perspective (which
are not easily acquired in pop music due to the way in which
it is put together) that can be carried forward into other areas
of recording. Versatility is the keynote.

I have no interest in being taken seriously as a
recording engineer.

There is no fear of that:-)

Given my education and most of my
professional career,

You have a Bachelor's n'est-pas? In this part of the
world they have not been awarded for many many years.
It's about the equivalent of the Swedish secondary school
leavers certificate for students going on to Poly.

I am surprised you could get a job at all:-)


being a mere recording engineer is a gigantic step
down, both professionally and economically.

By economically do you mean "financially"?
I am pretty sure, leaving recording aside for the moment,
that someone doing transcription at a professional level
would invoice more in an hour than a car factory employer,
or computer repair main (or whatever you are/were)
would earn in a day:-) And as for job satisfaction.....

But, wait a minute, I recall not to long ago a claim by you,
in some strange twisted logic, that you had earned enough money
for your church to warrant the title "professional recording
engineer". You don't meet the criterion in any sense.

If it were not for your condescending "been there/done that",
Jack of All Trades approach Arny, you could be turning out
better work than your current horrendous offerings.

Iain, you know nothing about my work.

You are almost certainly deluding yourself, Arny, if you
think that I, or George, or anyone else for that matter gives
a sixpence for your "work".

Given your outdated, narrow views
and history of endless bad faith, I hope to keep it that way in the
interest of minimizing the ignorant spew that foist off on Usenet.

I was sent some mp3 clips of a choir which you have
recorded. Quite dreadful! A colleague, who teaches
recording arts at conservatory level played a track
to his students. At the end, there was a very long
silence. Most had sickly smiles on their faces. They
did not know whether to laugh or cry! Then one young lady,
a cellist, burst into tears and ran out of the auditorium. She told
her fellow students later that she thought the recording was some
kind of cruel sacrilegious joke.

I record live performances of mostly amateurs out of a sense of service
and charity and for fun.

Fun?? You make gifted musicians cry!

Iain

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)

Yes, their term only.

from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
the other way.

Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
seventies did they!!!!

Iain, clearly lives in an alternative universe, doesn't he?

Once again, comprehension let's you down badly, Arny.
I am referring to current trends in purchasing.

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...
One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)

Yes, their term only.

from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
the other way.

Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
seventies did they!!!!
And of course the only ones left are people like you who like the so
called
"euphonic distortions". After paying mega dollars, the only reason they
would go the other way now is bankruptcy :-)

I have never paid "mega dollars for anything" I build my own
valve amplifiers, and as an audio professional can get speakers,
turntables, CD players, SS amps etc on long or permanent loan.
I can also buy at professional discount, without sales tax.
In addition, the company of which I am a shareholder owns a
great deal of professional equipment.

In this part of the world at least, you can buy
almost any SS system at discount. There seems to be quite a
long lead time for tube amps, for which people are willing to
pay the full retail price. What does that tell you?

That little demand for valve amps means no mass production cost savings!

Nonsense. People choose their system simply because a) they
enjoy the sound which such equipment produces in their
particular listening environment, and b) it suits their budget.
It's that simple. Talk to people, ask them how they make
their decisions.

The cost of valve amps hasn't "suited" anyones budget for years. Of course
some will always pay a premium to be diferent however.

The gentleman I had in miond equated it to going to the opera.
You can either pay a very small sum, and sit up in the gods, or
shell out for a good seat. We all make our choice according to
our standards and requirements.

Personally, I don't give a silver sixpence what equipment
people choose. The important thing is that they listen to music
and enjoy the experience. That is what matters.

And since I'm sure we all do that, why the need for argument?


I wasn't aware this was an argument. I was taking part in a
discussion. I am happy to see Mr T that you have managed
a whole post without having to resort to invective. Well done.

Iain

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Sep 12, 1:48 am, "Iain Churches" wrote:

Fun?? You make gifted musicians cry!

I notice that you still refuse to take up good old insane Arns'
challenge:

Get rid of all of your equipment, forget about all of your experience,
go to a crummy hall with a lot of bad musicians and see if you can
make a recording as good as the ones made by good old insane Arns.

[Clyde Slick]

On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message




better work than your current horrendous offerings.

Iain, you know nothing about my work.


why is that, Arny?

I record live performances of mostly amateurs

oh, that's why.

[roughplanet]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)

Yes, their term only.

from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
the other way.

Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
seventies did they!!!!
And of course the only ones left are people like you who like the so
called "euphonic distortions". After paying mega dollars, the only reason
they
would go the other way now is bankruptcy :-)

I have never paid "mega dollars for anything" I build my own
valve amplifiers, and as an audio professional can get speakers,
turntables, CD players, SS amps etc on long or permanent loan.
I can also buy at professional discount, without sales tax.
In addition, the company of which I am a shareholder owns a
great deal of professional equipment.

In this part of the world at least, you can buy almost any SS system at
discount. There seems to be quite a long lead time for tube amps, for
which people are willing to
pay the full retail price. What does that tell you?

That little demand for valve amps means no mass production cost savings!

Nonsense. People choose their system simply because a) they enjoy the
sound which such equipment produces in their particular listening
environment, and b) it suits their budget.
It's that simple. Talk to people, ask them how they make their
decisions.

The cost of valve amps hasn't "suited" anyones budget for years. Of
course
some will always pay a premium to be diferent however.

The gentleman I had in mind equated it to going to the opera.
You can either pay a very small sum, and sit up in the gods, or
shell out for a good seat. We all make our choice according to
our standards and requirements.

Personally, I don't give a silver sixpence what equipment
people choose. The important thing is that they listen to music
and enjoy the experience. That is what matters.

And since I'm sure we all do that, why the need for argument?

I wasn't aware this was an argument. I was taking part in a
discussion. I am happy to see Mr T that you have managed
a whole post without having to resort to invective. Well done.

But still limits his involvement to the occassional snipe from the sidelines
:-).

ruff

[roughplanet]

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

better work than your current horrendous offerings.

Iain, you know nothing about my work.

why is that, Arny?

I record live performances of mostly amateurs

oh, that's why.

Badly.

[George M. Middius]

Iain Churches said:

Given my education and most of my
professional career,

You have a Bachelor's n'est-pas? In this part of the
world they have not been awarded for many many years.
It's about the equivalent of the Swedish secondary school
leavers certificate for students going on to Poly.

I am surprised you could get a job at all:-)

Krooger does not now have a job in the recording business or in the audio
industry, nor has he ever had one. What he calls his "career" began as a
sales clerk in Radio Shack and progressed through assistant engineer at
Chrysler, installer of large computer systems, and (now) "flogger" of
workaday homebrew PCs.

Also, by his own admission, Krooger's "career" consists of his Usenet
posts. If you Google the phrase "usenet career", you'll get some insight
into Krooger's kareer.

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

One hears frequently of people who have "upgraded" (their term)

Yes, their term only.

from an SS to a tube system. One never hears about anyone going
the other way.

Nah nobody ever upgraded from valve to solid state in the sixties and
seventies did they!!!!

Iain, clearly lives in an alternative universe, doesn't he?

Once again, comprehension let's you down badly, Arny.
I am referring to current trends in purchasing.

Stop externalizing, Iain. You've missed the point again. The past trend in
purchasing was to scrap tubes for solid state. That took tubed audio gear
from total dominance down to a tiny niche. That tiny niche of remaining
tubed equipment is so miniscule that it could double, triple, probably even
grow by 10 times, and still have no discernable impact on the sales or
usage of similarly-functioned SS gear.

This is like the vinyl LP all over again, except that SS was dominant for at
least a decade before the LP fell into general disuse due to the
availability of the CD. Therefore, there is even less tubed equipment in
use than there are LP players still in use. If you want to see the future
for the LP, look at tubed audio gear.

[Arny Krueger]

Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

I have never paid "mega dollars for anything".

By the standards of most music lovers you have done exactly that Iain, and
you've even made the mistake of bragging about it online.

I build my own valve amplifiers

Out of parts, some of which individually cost as much as a complete SS audio
component.

, and as an audio professional can get speakers,
turntables, CD players, SS amps etc on long or permanent loan.

IOW Iain, you live on charity, partially based on the deception that loaning
you equipment will help its owner to sell more equipment.

I can also buy at professional discount, without sales tax.

So what? If what you buy is overpriced by 1000%, what sort of discount can
deal with that?

In addition, the company of which I am a shareholder owns a
great deal of professional equipment.

And those shares cost you nothing? Come on Iain, even if the company gave
you the stock, its taxable income in most countries.

In this part of the world at least, you can buy
almost any SS system at discount. There seems to be quite a
long lead time for tube amps, for which people are willing to
pay the full retail price. What does that tell you?

That little demand for valve amps means no mass production cost savings!

Exactly. I can buy a SS 100 wpc stereo receiver for $80-100.

What would I pay for an assembly of tubed equipment with the same
performance? Well first off, the amp section of a SS receiver probably
outperforms *any* tubed amp ever made, in terms of low distortion. And the
FM section may do as well compared to the best tubed tuners ever made.

Nonsense. People choose their system simply because a) they
enjoy the sound which such equipment produces in their
particular listening environment, and b) it suits their budget.

Nahh - a lot of people buy high end audio gear for the status they think it
will bring them. I doubt that most owners of say McIntosh or Marantz tubed
gear, or any of the niche brands that followed in their footsteps, could
score statistically significant in a blind listening test.

It's that simple. Talk to people, ask them how they make
their decisions.

As if someone who is a grasping new rich status seeker will bare their soul.

The cost of valve amps hasn't "suited" anyones budget for years. Of
course
some will always pay a premium to be diferent however.

Tubed gear is mostly about bragging rights and sentimentality.

The gentleman I had in mind equated it to going to the opera.

The people I know who actually go to the opera and the symphony have SS
systems, and have had SS gear for decades.

You can either pay a very small sum, and sit up in the gods, or
shell out for a good seat. We all make our choice according to
our standards and requirements.

Except that listening to tubed gear in order to hear the music with the best
possible sonic accuracy is practically speaking, the bozo seats.

Personally, I don't give a silver sixpence what equipment
people choose. The important thing is that they listen to music
and enjoy the experience. That is what matters.

And since I'm sure we all do that, why the need for argument?

The arguments come when tubistas talk trash.

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

Recording, like any other profession is not something one
picks up. It requires study, and a great deal of practice.

Been there, done that.

There you go again:-)

You need to work under a master craftsman. You need to study
music theory, look at orchestral scores, and know the classical
repertoire well.

Iain, here's a news flash for you that you seem to badly need. Not
everybody who records music, records classical music, or orchestras.

Indeed. But the above still applies, just as in the same way that
not all pianists play classical music. But you will find, that most
of the best jazz players for example have a strong classical
technique. Listen to Bach. Was he not the King of Jazz?
I worked a couple of times with the American clarinet legend
Benny Goodman. He used to warm up on "The Forty Eight"

You're living in the past Iain. Benny Goodman has been dead for over 20
years.

The same goes for recording. A classical background
gives one skills in balance and acoustic perspective (which
are not easily acquired in pop music due to the way in which
it is put together) that can be carried forward into other areas
of recording. Versatility is the keynote.

Still waiting for that recording that you produced all by yourself, Iain.

I have no interest in being taken seriously as a
recording engineer.

There is no fear of that:-)

Given my education and most of my
professional career,

You have a Bachelor's n'est-pas? In this part of the
world they have not been awarded for many many years.

Iain, so what?

It's about the equivalent of the Swedish secondary school
leavers certificate for students going on to Poly.

Nonsense.

being a mere recording engineer is a gigantic step
down, both professionally and economically.

By economically do you mean "financially"?
I am pretty sure, leaving recording aside for the moment,
that someone doing transcription at a professional level
would invoice more in an hour than a car factory employer,
or computer repair main (or whatever you are/were)
would earn in a day:-) And as for job satisfaction.....

Iain, You're talking trash again. Hourly rates billed, and annual taxable
income are two vastly different things. Most of my professional life, my
time was billed by my employer at $160 or more, even back in the 1980s. In
contrast my annual income barely got into the 6 figures.

But, wait a minute, I recall not to long ago a claim by you,
in some strange twisted logic, that you had earned enough money
for your church to warrant the title "professional recording
engineer". You don't meet the criterion in any sense.

You're talking trash again, Iain. I never said any such thing. You can try
to google up your lost reputation for truthfulness at your earliest
convenience.

If it were not for your condescending "been there/done that",
Jack of All Trades approach Arny, you could be turning out
better work than your current horrendous offerings.

Iain, you know nothing about my work.

You are almost certainly deluding yourself, Arny, if you
think that I, or George, or anyone else for that matter gives
a sixpence for your "work".

Iain, it is obvious from your many posts attacking me that I manage to
obtain considerable amounts of your valuable time. ;-)

Given your outdated, narrow views
and history of endless bad faith, I hope to keep it that way in the
interest of minimizing the ignorant spew that foist off on Usenet.

I was sent some mp3 clips of a choir which you have
recorded. Quite dreadful!

When you've heard them live to compare, be sure to comment again.

A colleague, who teaches
recording arts at conservatory level played a track
to his students. At the end, there was a very long
silence. Most had sickly smiles on their faces. They
did not know whether to laugh or cry! Then one young lady,
a cellist, burst into tears and ran out of the auditorium. She told
her fellow students later that she thought the recording was some
kind of cruel sacrilegious joke.

Very low, Iain.

I record live performances of mostly amateurs out of a sense of service
and charity and for fun.

Fun?? You make gifted musicians cry!

Iain, I seriously doubt that the comments above are anything but fantasy. If
they aren't, it says a lot about how pathetic your life is, that you would
go to these extremes to gratify yourself.

[bassett[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

Iain, I seriously doubt that the comments above are anything but fantasy.
If they aren't, it says a lot about how pathetic your life is, that you
would go to these extremes to gratify yourself.

I really dunno why you bother Arny,, The blokes on a giant ego trip
to know where.
Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the amount
of ONE
As for being a highly talented recording engineer of vast
quantities of classical rubbish. Ask him just how many recordings
he completes in a year, and just how many carry his name as
production engineer. The answers probably the same as the number of
valve amps he makes .Minus one

Then ask him to quote the recordings and the catalogue numbers of the
finished products.

In other words get the queer **** to put up or shut up.

bassett

[Arny Krueger]

"bassett" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

Iain, I seriously doubt that the comments above are anything but
fantasy. If they aren't, it says a lot about how pathetic your life
is, that you would go to these extremes to gratify yourself.

I really dunno why you bother Arny,, The blokes on a giant ego
trip to know where.

Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the amount
of ONE

As for being a highly talented recording engineer of vast
quantities of classical rubbish. Ask him just how many recordings
he completes in a year, and just how many carry his name as
production engineer. The answers probably the same as the number of
valve amps he makes .Minus one

Then ask him to quote the recordings and the catalogue numbers of
the finished products.

In other words get the queer **** to put up or shut up.

Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"roughplanet" wrote in message
u...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

better work than your current horrendous offerings.

Iain, you know nothing about my work.

why is that, Arny?

I record live performances of mostly amateurs

oh, that's why.

Badly.

Unbelievably badly.

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"George M. Middius" cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote in message
...


Iain Churches said:

Given my education and most of my
professional career,

You have a Bachelor's n'est-pas? In this part of the
world they have not been awarded for many many years.
It's about the equivalent of the Swedish secondary school
leavers certificate for students going on to Poly.

I am surprised you could get a job at all:-)

Krooger does not now have a job in the recording business or in the audio
industry, nor has he ever had one. What he calls his "career" began as a
sales clerk in Radio Shack and progressed through assistant engineer at
Chrysler, installer of large computer systems, and (now) "flogger" of
workaday homebrew PCs.

Also, by his own admission, Krooger's "career" consists of his Usenet
posts. If you Google the phrase "usenet career", you'll get some insight
into Krooger's kareer.


George. That is more or less in line with what the very funny Krooborg
CV said, except that second hand computer repair main was given as
present occupation.

What was his rank in the Army?

Iain

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

"roughplanet" wrote in message
u...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

better work than your current horrendous offerings.

Iain, you know nothing about my work.

why is that, Arny?

I record live performances of mostly amateurs

oh, that's why.

Badly.

Unbelievably badly.

Talk about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

Iain, if the MP3 file(s) you received by email were sourced as I suspect,
they were surely forgeries.

Your problem now, is that you are so strongly motivated by anger and hate
that you actually swallowed those forged MP3 files whole, and bragged about
it here.

Of course Iain, your congenital mental problems with analyzing potentially
faulty real-world evidence have been already proven by the other technical
bilge rats that you've swallowed whole, and regurgitated here as revealed
truth.

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

"George M. Middius" cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote in message
...

Iain Churches said:

Given my education and most of my
professional career,

You have a Bachelor's n'est-pas?

What's in a name?

In this part of the
world they have not been awarded for many many years.

Your error here Iain is that you think you understand the respective
educational systems.

It's about the equivalent of the Swedish secondary school
leavers certificate for students going on to Poly.

BS is about Poly in the US. But yes, I did quite a bit of postgraduate work
as well. Just didn't put the seal on that one because of familial
responsibilities.

Iain, ask the Middiot about his educational credentials. ;-)

I am surprised you could get a job at all:-)

Iain, ask the Middiot about his CV. ;-)

Krooger does not now have a job in the recording business or in the audio
industry, nor has he ever had one.

False claim.

What he calls his "career" began as a sales clerk in Radio Shack

A reasonable job for a 13-year-old, wouldn't you say? BTW Iain, when you
were 13, where did you work? Oh, BTW this was my second job.

and progressed through assistant engineer at Chrysler

lots was skipped, including tours at IBM and GM.

, installer of large computer systems,

lots was skipped, including engineering a prototype electric truck,
computer modelling, OS kernal writing, technical lecturing, etc.

and (now) "flogger" of workaday homebrew PCs.

lots was skipped again

Also, by his own admission, Krooger's "career" consists of his Usenet
posts.

Belied, even by the distorted picture above. Nice of the Middiot to
contradict himself.

If you Google the phrase "usenet career", you'll get some insight
into Krooger's kareer.

Note that the Middiot's harrasment of me is so egregious that he won't spell
my name properly to avoid the possibility of sucessful litigation. The
animator of the Middiot is probably a person of some means, with something
to lose were he to be unmasked.

George. That is more or less in line with what the very funny Krooborg
CV said, except that second hand computer repair main was given as
present occupation.

At least the liars are trying to make their lies consistent, except when
they blow it as above.

What was his rank in the Army?

SP/5.

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

"roughplanet" wrote in message
u...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

better work than your current horrendous offerings.

Iain, you know nothing about my work.

why is that, Arny?

I record live performances of mostly amateurs

oh, that's why.

Badly.

Unbelievably badly.

Talk about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

Iain, if the MP3 file(s) you received by email were sourced as I suspect,
they were surely forgeries.

Your problem now, is that you are so strongly motivated by anger and hate
that you actually swallowed those forged MP3 files whole, and bragged
about it here.

Of course Iain, your congenital mental problems with analyzing potentially
faulty real-world evidence have been already proven by the other technical
bilge rats that you've swallowed whole, and regurgitated here as revealed
truth.

I posted the link, at the time, and you admitted these were your work.

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

"roughplanet" wrote in message
u...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

better work than your current horrendous offerings.

Iain, you know nothing about my work.

why is that, Arny?

I record live performances of mostly amateurs

oh, that's why.

Badly.

Unbelievably badly.

Talk about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

Iain, if the MP3 file(s) you received by email were sourced as I suspect,
they were surely forgeries.

Your problem now, is that you are so strongly motivated by anger and hate
that you actually swallowed those forged MP3 files whole, and bragged
about it here.

Of course Iain, your congenital mental problems with analyzing
potentially faulty real-world evidence have been already proven by the
other technical bilge rats that you've swallowed whole, and regurgitated
here as revealed truth.

I posted the link, at the time, and you admitted these were your work.

You're changing your story, Iain. Now its a link and not an email.

Do come back when you've got all your ducks in a row.

Besides Iain, where's that MP3 of the recording you made and produced all by
yourself?

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"bassett" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

Iain, I seriously doubt that the comments above are anything but
fantasy. If they aren't, it says a lot about how pathetic your life
is, that you would go to these extremes to gratify yourself.

I really dunno why you bother Arny,, The blokes on a giant ego
trip to know where.
Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the amount
of ONE

Hello Bassett. Nice to see you teamed up with Arny:-)

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...ProdnBatch.jpg

Second batch of ten now being built. Most are already reserved.

As for being a highly talented recording engineer of vast
quantities of classical rubbish. Ask him just how many recordings
he completes in a year, and just how many carry his name as
production engineer. The answers probably the same as the number of
valve amps he makes .Minus one.

First of all Bassett, you need to get your terminology right. There is
no such thing as a production engineer in music recording. You are
either a Producer or an Engineer. If one does both roles, then
Producer/Engineer is the correct title.

Unlike your goodself, Bassett, I have no need to cower behind a
pseudonym and a false e-mail address. Get a copy of the Decca, RCA
or Fuga classical catalogues.Then look at the EU Cultural Foundation
database. You will find plenty of my work there.

Iain

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.


You could answer Bassett' question by forwarding the
long list of recordings and catalogue numbers I listed for
you when you were arm in arm with Pinkie. It shut you up,
and will probaby shut Bassett up also.

Needless to say, you were too tight fisted to actually
go out any buy any of them, and I certainly was not going
to put yourt name on the complimentary copies list.

Iain

[George M. Middius]

Iain Churches said:

I am surprised you could get a job at all:-)

Krooger does not now have a job in the recording business or in the audio
industry, nor has he ever had one. What he calls his "career" began as a
sales clerk in Radio Shack and progressed through assistant engineer at
Chrysler, installer of large computer systems, and (now) "flogger" of
workaday homebrew PCs.

Note that in Krooger's kowardly indirect response, he confirmed all of my
assumptions.

Also, by his own admission, Krooger's "career" consists of his Usenet
posts. If you Google the phrase "usenet career", you'll get some insight
into Krooger's kareer.

Krooger's mental disease does not permit him to understand the inherent
irony in his pet phrase "Usenet career".

George. That is more or less in line with what the very funny Krooborg
CV said, except that second hand computer repair main was given as
present occupation.

Close enough for corporate work. ;-)

What was his rank in the Army?

I dunno, but rumor has it he received several citations for exceptional
latrine cleaning. ;-)

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

"roughplanet" wrote in message
u...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


Iain, if the MP3 file(s) you received by email were sourced as I
suspect, they were surely forgeries.

No. There is no doubt they were genuine. We even discussed them.
And you made a comment that music should be fun. I replied that
recorded fun should have good intonation and be in balance. Then
it's real fun.

Your problem now, is that you are so strongly motivated by anger and
hate that you actually swallowed those forged MP3 files whole, and
bragged about it here.

There is no doubt they were genuine

Of course Iain, your congenital mental problems with analyzing
potentially faulty real-world evidence have been already proven by the
other technical bilge rats that you've swallowed whole, and regurgitated
here as revealed truth.

I posted the link, at the time, and you admitted these were your work.

You're changing your story, Iain. Now its a link and not an email.

The story is the same. The recording remains equally horrendous.
The mp3 was sent to me as an e.mail attachment. It came from a URL.

Do come back when you've got all your ducks in a row.

Besides Iain, where's that MP3 of the recording you made and produced all
by yourself?

You can buy the recordings if you want to hear them (you have a list)
You will get no charity from me.

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

"roughplanet" wrote in message
u...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 12 Sep, 09:48, "Iain Churches" wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


Iain, if the MP3 file(s) you received by email were sourced as I
suspect, they were surely forgeries.

No. There is no doubt they were genuine. We even discussed them.
And you made a comment that music should be fun. I replied that
recorded fun should have good intonation and be in balance. Then
it's real fun.

Your problem now, is that you are so strongly motivated by anger and
hate that you actually swallowed those forged MP3 files whole, and
bragged about it here.

There is no doubt they were genuine

Of course Iain, your congenital mental problems with analyzing
potentially faulty real-world evidence have been already proven by the
other technical bilge rats that you've swallowed whole, and
regurgitated
here as revealed truth.

I posted the link, at the time, and you admitted these were your work.

You're changing your story, Iain. Now its a link and not an email.

The story is the same. The recording remains equally horrendous.
The mp3 was sent to me as an e.mail attachment. It came from a URL.

Do come back when you've got all your ducks in a row.

Besides Iain, where's that MP3 of the recording you made and produced all
by yourself?

You can buy the recordings if you want to hear them (you have a list)

No such list exists. Only lists of recordings that you contributed to, one
of many.

You will get no charity from me.

Not even honesty, just once?

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

Seems like you've done my work for me, Bassett.


You could answer Bassett' question by forwarding the
long list of recordings and catalogue numbers I listed for
you when you were arm in arm with Pinkie. It shut you up,
and will probaby shut Bassett up also.

No completely solo efforts. You know, you arranged for the artists, obtained
the venue at your own expense, personally owned every piece of equipment,
did all the setup, recording, editing, production yourself.

Apples-to-apples or zilch.

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"bassett" wrote in message
...

Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the
amount of ONE

Hello Bassett. Nice to see you teamed up with Arny:-)

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...ProdnBatch.jpg

Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.

Note what seem to be power transistor cases on the middle deck of the
closest chassis. ;-)

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...
You can buy the recordings if you want to hear them (you have a list)

No such list exists. Only lists of recordings that you contributed to, one
of many.

Check the credits. You will find each member of the team listed

You will get no charity from me.

Not even honesty, just once?

Check your dictionary. Charity and honesty are not
mutually synonymous.

Once again.No free recordings. Go and buy them like
every one else does, you tight-fisted old computer repair
person:-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...
You can buy the recordings if you want to hear them (you have a list)

No such list exists. Only lists of recordings that you contributed to,
one of many.

Check the credits. You will find each member of the team listed

Thanks for agreeing with me - no original sole product of yours exists.

You will get no charity from me.

Not even honesty, just once?

Check your dictionary. Charity and honesty are not
mutually synonymous.

Red herring.

Once again.No free recordings. Go and buy them like
every one else does, you tight-fisted old computer repair
person:-)

I know of nothing that is solely yours Iain, and you keep confirming that
right in the midst of your denials.

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"bassett" wrote in message
...

Ask him , just how many valve amps he's produced over the
amount of ONE

Hello Bassett. Nice to see you teamed up with Arny:-)

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...ProdnBatch.jpg

Whatever they are, whoever they belong to, wherever they are.

My workshop. Pics of which were posted on RAT (in a thread to which
you posted) Come and take a look for yourself -any time.

Pics of your amp projects would be of great interest.

Note what seem to be power transistor cases on the middle deck of the
closest chassis. ;-)

Blind as well as stupid? :-))