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#1
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Drum Mic Setup
I'd like to record drums using only 4 relatively inexpensive microphones.
Probably one on the kick, one on the snare and two overhead. Any recommendations on inexpensive mics to do the job and/or alternative micing setup. Thanks as always |
#2
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Sanbar wrote:
I'd like to record drums using only 4 relatively inexpensive microphones. Probably one on the kick, one on the snare and two overhead. Any recommendations on inexpensive mics to do the job and/or alternative micing setup. Take all the money you have and invest it in two of the best small diaphragm condenser mikes you can afford. Put whatever dynamic mike you can find in the junk box on the kick drum. Unless it's a closed kick in which case careful positioning of the two overheads will get you a good kick sound too. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#3
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I'd like to record drums using only 4 relatively inexpensive microphones.
Probably one on the kick, one on the snare and two overhead. Any recommendations on inexpensive mics to do the job and/or alternative micing setup. Thanks as always With those limited specifications, try the following: 1- Audio-Technica ATM25 for kick 2- Marshall MXL603s condensers for overheads 1- Shure SM57 for snare. That's about $450 not counting stands etc. --Wayne -"sounded good to me"- |
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#5
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1- Audio-Technica ATM25 for kick
2- Marshall MXL603s condensers for overheads 1- Shure SM57 for snare. I disagree on the marshalls for a 4 mic setup. They are very scooped in the mids. On a budget, I prefer the SP C4 for getting a good picture of the kit. They have less of an upper mid/treble spike (though they do have some pleasant unnaturalness in the high end) and are much fuller and natural in the midrange. Another option is to get a pair of the SP B1s. I have never used them, but they seem to be a decent inexpensive option. |
#6
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#7
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On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:38:27 -0500, Mike T. wrote
(in article ): On 08 Nov 2004 23:11:38 GMT, (Wayne) wrote: I'd like to record drums using only 4 relatively inexpensive microphones. Probably one on the kick, one on the snare and two overhead. Any recommendations on inexpensive mics to do the job and/or alternative micing setup. Thanks as always With those limited specifications, try the following: 1- Audio-Technica ATM25 for kick 2- Marshall MXL603s condensers for overheads 1- Shure SM57 for snare. That's about $450 not counting stands etc. --Wayne -"sounded good to me"- You won't do better than Wayne's list. Mike T. try 2 Rode NT5 or one NT4 for the overheads. Regards, Ty Ford -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric stuff are at www.tyford.com |
#8
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"Sanbar" wrote in message ... I'd like to record drums using only 4 relatively inexpensive microphones. Probably one on the kick, one on the snare and two overhead. Any recommendations on inexpensive mics to do the job and/or alternative micing setup. Thanks as always Has anyone tried using the Behringer reference mic for recording? do they sound any good at all? I have used them when I had nothing else for O/H mics in a live situation. they worked well there but I have never done any critical listening with them. and they are the cheapest condensers out there I think. Doug |
#9
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Doug Schultz wrote:
Has anyone tried using the Behringer reference mic for recording? do they sound any good at all? I have used them when I had nothing else for O/H mics in a live situation. they worked well there but I have never done any critical listening with them. and they are the cheapest condensers out there I think. Yes. They are pretty good about sounding the same off-axis as on-axis, which is very important. They are noisy, which doesn't matter for drum mikes, and they are gritty on top, which is still pretty good when you consider how cheap they are. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#10
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On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 18:57:43 GMT, "Doug Schultz"
wrote: "Sanbar" wrote in message ... I'd like to record drums using only 4 relatively inexpensive microphones. Probably one on the kick, one on the snare and two overhead. Any recommendations on inexpensive mics to do the job and/or alternative micing setup. Thanks as always Has anyone tried using the Behringer reference mic for recording? do they sound any good at all? I have used them when I had nothing else for O/H mics in a live situation. they worked well there but I have never done any critical listening with them. and they are the cheapest condensers out there I think. Doug I frequently use one on hi-hat, rarely anywhere else. Mike T. |
#11
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In addition to the recommendations already made, check out the
Mercenary Audio site for Fletcher's article on drum micing, which included 2 and 3 mike setups. On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 22:29:44 GMT, "Sanbar" wrote: I'd like to record drums using only 4 relatively inexpensive microphones. Probably one on the kick, one on the snare and two overhead. Any recommendations on inexpensive mics to do the job and/or alternative micing setup. Thanks as always Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org |
#12
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#14
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You didn't specify the style of music or the sound you wanted, but I'd
consider a single overhead and a single room mic for the 3rd and 4th mics. |
#15
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"Doug Schultz" wrote in message
Has anyone tried using the Behringer reference mic for recording? do they sound any good at all? I have used them when I had nothing else for O/H mics in a live situation. they worked well there but I have never done any critical listening with them. and they are the cheapest condensers out there I think. I use one in a live situation to feed me IEMs. I have also used the MXL603s for the same purpose. Here's the pros and cons as I've seen them - and how I think they'd extrapolate into a recording environ: I prefer the Behringer for live use becuase it's OMNI and pics up more of the surroundings. (other instruments, crowd noise etc...) It makes the cymbals come together and let you feel less isolated in the IEMs. For recording - I think they'd be good to pick up the room. The MXL603s eats the B for lunch when it comes to sounding good. Cymbals are more natural (better stick definition and character), but they don't pick up the room as well - for recording - I'd prefer the Marshall 85% of the time. Erich |
#16
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"Mike Caffrey" wrote in message om... You didn't specify the style of music or the sound you wanted, but I'd consider a single overhead and a single room mic for the 3rd and 4th mics. only problem with that is that you have no stereo imaging then. I for one like to hear the cymbals in the proper place around the sound stage. Doug |
#17
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#18
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"Doug Schultz" wrote in message news:Xpukd.179771$%k.133799@pd7tw2no...
"Mike Caffrey" wrote in message om... You didn't specify the style of music or the sound you wanted, but I'd consider a single overhead and a single room mic for the 3rd and 4th mics. only problem with that is that you have no stereo imaging then. I for one like to hear the cymbals in the proper place around the sound stage. Doug That's why i said it depends on the style of music. A guitar oriented hard rock band doesn't really need stereo drum mics and might benefit more from the sound of a compressed room mic. It's just somehting to consider. THere are plety of great jazz recordings with mono drums too. |
#19
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"Doug Schultz" wrote in message news:Xpukd.179771$%k.133799@pd7tw2no...
"Mike Caffrey" wrote in message om... You didn't specify the style of music or the sound you wanted, but I'd consider a single overhead and a single room mic for the 3rd and 4th mics. only problem with that is that you have no stereo imaging then. I for one like to hear the cymbals in the proper place around the sound stage. Doug That's why i said it depends on the style of music. A guitar oriented hard rock band doesn't really need stereo drum mics and might benefit more from the sound of a compressed room mic. It's just somehting to consider. THere are plety of great jazz recordings with mono drums too. |
#20
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Mike Caffrey wrote:
"Doug Schultz" wrote in message news:Xpukd.179771$%k.133799@pd7tw2no... "Mike Caffrey" wrote in message .com... You didn't specify the style of music or the sound you wanted, but I'd consider a single overhead and a single room mic for the 3rd and 4th mics. only problem with that is that you have no stereo imaging then. I for one like to hear the cymbals in the proper place around the sound stage. Doug That's why i said it depends on the style of music. A guitar oriented hard rock band doesn't really need stereo drum mics and might benefit more from the sound of a compressed room mic. It's just somehting to consider. THere are plety of great jazz recordings with mono drums too. get a pair of akg c430's. musicians friend is selling them for 200 a pair. good oh mics. cant go wrong. |
#21
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Mike Caffrey wrote:
"Doug Schultz" wrote in message news:Xpukd.179771$%k.133799@pd7tw2no... "Mike Caffrey" wrote in message .com... You didn't specify the style of music or the sound you wanted, but I'd consider a single overhead and a single room mic for the 3rd and 4th mics. only problem with that is that you have no stereo imaging then. I for one like to hear the cymbals in the proper place around the sound stage. Doug That's why i said it depends on the style of music. A guitar oriented hard rock band doesn't really need stereo drum mics and might benefit more from the sound of a compressed room mic. It's just somehting to consider. THere are plety of great jazz recordings with mono drums too. get a pair of akg c430's. musicians friend is selling them for 200 a pair. good oh mics. cant go wrong. |
#22
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(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
In article znr1100041885k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote: In article Hq8kd.165568$Pl.83558@pd7tw1no writes: Has anyone tried using the Behringer reference mic for recording? do they sound any good at all? The only bad thing that I've heard about this mic is that it has a somewhat higher noise level than most. This shouldn't be a problem with a powerful drummer. Earthworks, which makes more expensive mics that are built like measurement mics introduced a drum mic set at the AES show that consists of two omnis and a cardioid (or three cardioids in the live sound version) plus an in-line device which is both a pad and a low frequency response shaper for the kick. I've done some pretty decent jazz drums using two omnis as kind of "underheads" - in front of the kit aiming at about 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock looking down from the top with the kick at 12 o'clock, underneath the cymbals and over the toms. That plus a kick mic and a distant mic behind the drummer can work nicely. The Behringer, in fact, has a Chinese copy of the Japanese capsule that Earthworks (and a lot of other inexpensive omni) mikes use. The electronics leave something to be desired, but for $35, who cares? --scott An interesting side note: The bodies for the Behringer measurement mics (as well as the bodies used by Josephson) are made by the German firm of MBHO. |
#23
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(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
In article znr1100041885k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote: In article Hq8kd.165568$Pl.83558@pd7tw1no writes: Has anyone tried using the Behringer reference mic for recording? do they sound any good at all? The only bad thing that I've heard about this mic is that it has a somewhat higher noise level than most. This shouldn't be a problem with a powerful drummer. Earthworks, which makes more expensive mics that are built like measurement mics introduced a drum mic set at the AES show that consists of two omnis and a cardioid (or three cardioids in the live sound version) plus an in-line device which is both a pad and a low frequency response shaper for the kick. I've done some pretty decent jazz drums using two omnis as kind of "underheads" - in front of the kit aiming at about 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock looking down from the top with the kick at 12 o'clock, underneath the cymbals and over the toms. That plus a kick mic and a distant mic behind the drummer can work nicely. The Behringer, in fact, has a Chinese copy of the Japanese capsule that Earthworks (and a lot of other inexpensive omni) mikes use. The electronics leave something to be desired, but for $35, who cares? --scott An interesting side note: The bodies for the Behringer measurement mics (as well as the bodies used by Josephson) are made by the German firm of MBHO. |
#24
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(J.M.) wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote: Mike Rivers wrote: writes: Has anyone tried using the Behringer reference mic for recording? do they sound any good at all? The only bad thing that I've heard about this mic is that it has a somewhat higher noise level than most. This shouldn't be a problem with a powerful drummer. Earthworks, which makes more expensive mics that are built like measurement mics introduced a drum mic set at the AES show that consists of two omnis and a cardioid (or three cardioids in the live sound version) plus an in-line device which is both a pad and a low frequency response shaper for the kick. I've done some pretty decent jazz drums using two omnis as kind of "underheads" - in front of the kit aiming at about 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock looking down from the top with the kick at 12 o'clock, underneath the cymbals and over the toms. That plus a kick mic and a distant mic behind the drummer can work nicely. The Behringer, in fact, has a Chinese copy of the Japanese capsule that Earthworks (and a lot of other inexpensive omni) mikes use. The electronics leave something to be desired, but for $35, who cares? --scott An interesting side note: The bodies for the Behringer measurement mics (as well as the bodies used by Josephson) are made by the German firm of MBHO. The body is also identical to the Audix TR-40. Harvey Gerst Indian Trail Recording Studio http://www.ITRstudio.com/ |
#25
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(J.M.) wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote: Mike Rivers wrote: writes: Has anyone tried using the Behringer reference mic for recording? do they sound any good at all? The only bad thing that I've heard about this mic is that it has a somewhat higher noise level than most. This shouldn't be a problem with a powerful drummer. Earthworks, which makes more expensive mics that are built like measurement mics introduced a drum mic set at the AES show that consists of two omnis and a cardioid (or three cardioids in the live sound version) plus an in-line device which is both a pad and a low frequency response shaper for the kick. I've done some pretty decent jazz drums using two omnis as kind of "underheads" - in front of the kit aiming at about 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock looking down from the top with the kick at 12 o'clock, underneath the cymbals and over the toms. That plus a kick mic and a distant mic behind the drummer can work nicely. The Behringer, in fact, has a Chinese copy of the Japanese capsule that Earthworks (and a lot of other inexpensive omni) mikes use. The electronics leave something to be desired, but for $35, who cares? --scott An interesting side note: The bodies for the Behringer measurement mics (as well as the bodies used by Josephson) are made by the German firm of MBHO. The body is also identical to the Audix TR-40. Harvey Gerst Indian Trail Recording Studio http://www.ITRstudio.com/ |
#26
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In (J.M.) writes:
snip The Behringer, in fact, has a Chinese copy of the Japanese capsule that Earthworks (and a lot of other inexpensive omni) mikes use. The electronics leave something to be desired, but for $35, who cares? --scott An interesting side note: The bodies for the Behringer measurement mics (as well as the bodies used by Josephson) are made by the German firm of MBHO. Actually, no, and I am surprised that someone would post conjecture as fact. There has been no connection between us and MB QUART (or its successor in the microphone business, MBHO) since 1990. We imported the C550 microphone from MB for a couple of years (1988-89) but for a number of reasons we elected to build our own version from 1990 onwards. The bodies used by Josephson for many years were made in a screw machine shop in Campbell, California, near San Jose, plated in Sacramento and assembled in our shop. Recently we have bought them from a shop in Washington. I expect that the Behringer bodies are made where the rest of the mic is made, in China. There are several other lookalikes of this microphone, mostly from Taiwan and Korea. The difference in price between these various models generally translates into the consistency from one unit to the next, and how closely the mics are calibrated. Our C550H mics are calibrated to 10 mV/Pa within +/- 0.25 dB at 1 kHz. --David Josephson / Josephson Engineering Inc. / www.josephson.com -- Josephson Engineering / Santa Cruz CA / www.josephson.com |
#27
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In (J.M.) writes:
snip The Behringer, in fact, has a Chinese copy of the Japanese capsule that Earthworks (and a lot of other inexpensive omni) mikes use. The electronics leave something to be desired, but for $35, who cares? --scott An interesting side note: The bodies for the Behringer measurement mics (as well as the bodies used by Josephson) are made by the German firm of MBHO. Actually, no, and I am surprised that someone would post conjecture as fact. There has been no connection between us and MB QUART (or its successor in the microphone business, MBHO) since 1990. We imported the C550 microphone from MB for a couple of years (1988-89) but for a number of reasons we elected to build our own version from 1990 onwards. The bodies used by Josephson for many years were made in a screw machine shop in Campbell, California, near San Jose, plated in Sacramento and assembled in our shop. Recently we have bought them from a shop in Washington. I expect that the Behringer bodies are made where the rest of the mic is made, in China. There are several other lookalikes of this microphone, mostly from Taiwan and Korea. The difference in price between these various models generally translates into the consistency from one unit to the next, and how closely the mics are calibrated. Our C550H mics are calibrated to 10 mV/Pa within +/- 0.25 dB at 1 kHz. --David Josephson / Josephson Engineering Inc. / www.josephson.com -- Josephson Engineering / Santa Cruz CA / www.josephson.com |
#28
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"Sanbar" wrote in message ...
I'd like to record drums using only 4 relatively inexpensive microphones. Probably one on the kick, one on the snare and two overhead. Any recommendations on inexpensive mics to do the job and/or alternative micing setup. Thanks as always I think that would work just fine. I would try to get the kick and the snare very isolated by wrapping foam in a conical shape or (some people claim car mats work good) around the mic and place them as close as you can to the kick and snare. The snare especially will pick up a lot of highhat unless you isolate it (you could gate it later also). Since you already have the mics I would disregard the advice of the audio snobs here wanting you to go out and spend another $400. You can do a hell of a lot more to get the tone you want with plug ins or mixer effects later. |
#29
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"Sanbar" wrote in message ...
I'd like to record drums using only 4 relatively inexpensive microphones. Probably one on the kick, one on the snare and two overhead. Any recommendations on inexpensive mics to do the job and/or alternative micing setup. Thanks as always I think that would work just fine. I would try to get the kick and the snare very isolated by wrapping foam in a conical shape or (some people claim car mats work good) around the mic and place them as close as you can to the kick and snare. The snare especially will pick up a lot of highhat unless you isolate it (you could gate it later also). Since you already have the mics I would disregard the advice of the audio snobs here wanting you to go out and spend another $400. You can do a hell of a lot more to get the tone you want with plug ins or mixer effects later. |
#31
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#32
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...with, as always, the rider... listen carefully to the results. Putting cones or anything else close in around a mic will certainly change its response, often creating large peaks and troughs, and destroying its polar pattern. If it produces the desired result, go for it, but make sure you don't introduce some really annoying artifacts that you only pick up much later during mixing when it's too late. I have always used foam with pretty good results... even right against the drum head with about a 4"-6" hollow space to the mic, i think the guy who uses the car mats claims they are very absorbant so they don't reflect a lot of sound (although Im sure they do somewhat). Good point about the artifacts, even the natural annoying ones like a squeeking pedal or bad spring tension against the snare can drive you batty. |
#33
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...with, as always, the rider... listen carefully to the results. Putting cones or anything else close in around a mic will certainly change its response, often creating large peaks and troughs, and destroying its polar pattern. If it produces the desired result, go for it, but make sure you don't introduce some really annoying artifacts that you only pick up much later during mixing when it's too late. I have always used foam with pretty good results... even right against the drum head with about a 4"-6" hollow space to the mic, i think the guy who uses the car mats claims they are very absorbant so they don't reflect a lot of sound (although Im sure they do somewhat). Good point about the artifacts, even the natural annoying ones like a squeeking pedal or bad spring tension against the snare can drive you batty. |
#34
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Wayne's set up would work great. I have used that exact set up.
Alternatives (and for less money): use the AT PRO25 (similar to the ATM 25) on the kick. Also, try an MXL603s on the snare as a side mic. You might not need the SM57 (although you can always find a use for it). Buy an in-line pad for the snare 603s. Those of you who have a 603s (or two, or three): try it on snare. You might just love it. (Wayne) wrote in message ... I'd like to record drums using only 4 relatively inexpensive microphones. Probably one on the kick, one on the snare and two overhead. Any recommendations on inexpensive mics to do the job and/or alternative micing setup. Thanks as always With those limited specifications, try the following: 1- Audio-Technica ATM25 for kick 2- Marshall MXL603s condensers for overheads 1- Shure SM57 for snare. That's about $450 not counting stands etc. --Wayne -"sounded good to me"- |
#35
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Wayne's set up would work great. I have used that exact set up.
Alternatives (and for less money): use the AT PRO25 (similar to the ATM 25) on the kick. Also, try an MXL603s on the snare as a side mic. You might not need the SM57 (although you can always find a use for it). Buy an in-line pad for the snare 603s. Those of you who have a 603s (or two, or three): try it on snare. You might just love it. (Wayne) wrote in message ... I'd like to record drums using only 4 relatively inexpensive microphones. Probably one on the kick, one on the snare and two overhead. Any recommendations on inexpensive mics to do the job and/or alternative micing setup. Thanks as always With those limited specifications, try the following: 1- Audio-Technica ATM25 for kick 2- Marshall MXL603s condensers for overheads 1- Shure SM57 for snare. That's about $450 not counting stands etc. --Wayne -"sounded good to me"- |
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