[panfilero]

Hello, I'm looking for some help/suggestions in setting up a small
studio... I'm not really trying to do a whole lot, just have a way to
record guitar, keyboards and microphones

I went out and bought a used computer, pentium 4, I'm going to add
some RAM to it so it'll have 2-4gigs RAM. I'm also planning on
getting some 5" KRK rockit monitors.

Here's my question: In order to record say, guitar and keyboards....
should I purchase a mixer and then go from the mixer into the
computers sound card and then record with some software like cubase or
acid? Or would I be better off getting a stand alone digital
recorder, recording on that and then dumping my files into the
computer for editing? I've never used a computer to record before and
don't know how good they are at just hitting record and recording for
like10 minutes straight or something.... Also, can anyone suggest any
soundcard and are external firewire soundcards just as good or better
than internal ones?

I have another slightly unrelated question.. does anyone know, if
those little speakers I see at the stores... like the little bose
speaker, if they are good enough to replace old 80's/70's combo
cabinet speakers? I got an old pair of big ol cabinet speakers with
like 12" woofer and a mid and a tweeter that is pretty big and bulky
and was wondering if I can replace them with something smaller but
that will still pack the same punch.

much thanks!

[George's Pro Sound Company]

"panfilero" wrote in message
...
Hello, I'm looking for some help/suggestions in setting up a small
studio

rec.audio.pro would be your best resource
also there are recording forums over at www.prosoundweb.com that will not be
littered with the garbage you are likely to pick up in the two groups you
have cross-posted this to
george

[Paul P[_2_]]

panfilero wrote:

Here's my question: In order to record say, guitar and keyboards....
should I purchase a mixer and then go from the mixer into the
computers sound card and then record with some software like cubase or
acid? Or would I be better off getting a stand alone digital
recorder, recording on that and then dumping my files into the
computer for editing?

Apart from the Alesis 24 track recorder there don't seem to be any
dedicated recorders on the market right now. Like the equivalent of
a four or eight track tape deck. All that I've been able to find are
cheap mixer/recorder/effects combos or the expensive Sound Devices
equipment (and they also have preamps).

If anyone knows of a stand-alone digital equivalent of a bare-bones
eight (or evern four) track deck I'd like to know what it is.

I have another slightly unrelated question.. does anyone know, if
those little speakers I see at the stores... like the little bose
speaker, if they are good enough to replace old 80's/70's combo
cabinet speakers? I got an old pair of big ol cabinet speakers with
like 12" woofer and a mid and a tweeter that is pretty big and bulky
and was wondering if I can replace them with something smaller but
that will still pack the same punch.

You'll never get the punch of a 12" woofer out of a tiny speaker,
something that seems to be lost on a lot of people these days.

Paul P

[George's Pro Sound Company]

"Paul P" wrote in message
...
panfilero wrote:

Here's my question: In order to record say, guitar and keyboards....
should I purchase a mixer and then go from the mixer into the
computers sound card and then record with some software like cubase or
acid? Or would I be better off getting a stand alone digital
recorder, recording on that and then dumping my files into the
computer for editing?

Apart from the Alesis 24 track recorder there don't seem to be any
dedicated recorders on the market right now. Like the equivalent of
a four or eight track tape deck. All that I've been able to find are
cheap mixer/recorder/effects combos or the expensive Sound Devices
equipment (and they also have preamps).

If anyone knows of a stand-alone digital equivalent of a bare-bones
eight (or evern four) track deck I'd like to know what it is.

how "bare bones" do you ant to go
there are several offerings from tascam,zoom,fostex,roland in digital multi
track under 300$
real bare bones is the zoom h4
george

[GregS[_3_]]

In article , Paul P wrote:
panfilero wrote:

Here's my question: In order to record say, guitar and keyboards....
should I purchase a mixer and then go from the mixer into the
computers sound card and then record with some software like cubase or
acid? Or would I be better off getting a stand alone digital
recorder, recording on that and then dumping my files into the
computer for editing?

Apart from the Alesis 24 track recorder there don't seem to be any
dedicated recorders on the market right now. Like the equivalent of
a four or eight track tape deck. All that I've been able to find are
cheap mixer/recorder/effects combos or the expensive Sound Devices
equipment (and they also have preamps).

If anyone knows of a stand-alone digital equivalent of a bare-bones
eight (or evern four) track deck I'd like to know what it is.

I have another slightly unrelated question.. does anyone know, if
those little speakers I see at the stores... like the little bose
speaker, if they are good enough to replace old 80's/70's combo
cabinet speakers? I got an old pair of big ol cabinet speakers with
like 12" woofer and a mid and a tweeter that is pretty big and bulky
and was wondering if I can replace them with something smaller but
that will still pack the same punch.

You'll never get the punch of a 12" woofer out of a tiny speaker,
something that seems to be lost on a lot of people these days.

I disagree. Most of the consumer boxes had overemphasis on
some bass frequency. There are 6.5 and 8 inch designs today with
excellant bass. Its likely the 12 inch was more efficient.

greg

[Federico]

No stand alone digital recorder, the computer is a digital recorder already.
Get a good audio card with good preamps and you're done.
F.

[bg]

panfilero wrote in message ...
Hello, I'm looking for some help/suggestions in setting up a small
studio... I'm not really trying to do a whole lot, just have a way to
record guitar, keyboards and microphones

I went out and bought a used computer, pentium 4, I'm going to add
some RAM to it so it'll have 2-4gigs RAM. I'm also planning on
getting some 5" KRK rockit monitors.

Here's my question: In order to record say, guitar and keyboards....
should I purchase a mixer and then go from the mixer into the
computers sound card and then record with some software like cubase or
acid? Or would I be better off getting a stand alone digital
recorder, recording on that and then dumping my files into the
computer for editing? I've never used a computer to record before and
don't know how good they are at just hitting record and recording for
like10 minutes straight or something.... Also, can anyone suggest any
soundcard and are external firewire soundcards just as good or better
than internal ones?

I have another slightly unrelated question.. does anyone know, if
those little speakers I see at the stores... like the little bose
speaker, if they are good enough to replace old 80's/70's combo
cabinet speakers? I got an old pair of big ol cabinet speakers with
like 12" woofer and a mid and a tweeter that is pretty big and bulky
and was wondering if I can replace them with something smaller but
that will still pack the same punch.

much thanks!

You will need a preamp, a pedal, or direct box between the guitar and the
sound card to make it sound right. Some guitar amps have a line out which
will also suffice. Generally a mixer between the two won't be of any benifit
unless you need to mix?? For recording one instrument , track at a time,
skip the mixer. Find a cheap sound card, and a free software package to get
yourself started. As you learn and listen, you can make better decisions on
what to buy.
bg

[panfilero]

On Jan 9, 7:23*am, panfilero wrote:
Hello, I'm looking for some help/suggestions in setting up a small
studio... I'm not really trying to do a whole lot, just have a way to
record guitar, keyboards and microphones

I went out and bought a used computer, pentium 4, I'm going to add
some RAM to it so it'll have 2-4gigs RAM. *I'm also planning on
getting some 5" KRK rockit monitors.

Here's my question: *In order to record say, guitar and keyboards....
should I purchase a mixer and then go from the mixer into the
computers sound card and then record with some software like cubase or
acid? *Or would I be better off getting a stand alone digital
recorder, recording on that and then dumping my files into the
computer for editing? *I've never used a computer to record before and
don't know how good they are at just hitting record and recording for
like10 minutes straight or something.... Also, can anyone suggest any
soundcard and are external firewire soundcards just as good or better
than internal ones?

I have another slightly unrelated question.. does anyone know, if
those little speakers I see at the stores... like the little bose
speaker, if they are good enough to replace old 80's/70's combo
cabinet speakers? *I got an old pair of big ol cabinet speakers with
like 12" woofer and a mid and a tweeter that is pretty big and bulky
and was wondering if I can replace them with something smaller but
that will still pack the same punch.

much thanks!

Thanks for the suggestions, I will try the other groups that were
suggested too. Appreciate it.

[Richard Crowley]

"Paul P" wrote ...
Apart from the Alesis 24 track recorder there don't seem to be any
dedicated recorders on the market right now. Like the equivalent of
a four or eight track tape deck. All that I've been able to find are
cheap mixer/recorder/effects combos or the expensive Sound Devices
equipment (and they also have preamps).

If anyone knows of a stand-alone digital equivalent of a bare-bones
eight (or evern four) track deck I'd like to know what it is.

4-track: Edirol R-4
Works great for me for small-scale location stuff, even running
independently on internaly batteries (AA cells). 40GB hard
drive for practically unlimited recording time.

[Paul P[_2_]]

Richard Crowley wrote:

"Paul P" wrote ...

Apart from the Alesis 24 track recorder there don't seem to be any
dedicated recorders on the market right now. Like the equivalent of
a four or eight track tape deck. All that I've been able to find are
cheap mixer/recorder/effects combos or the expensive Sound Devices
equipment (and they also have preamps).

If anyone knows of a stand-alone digital equivalent of a bare-bones
eight (or evern four) track deck I'd like to know what it is.


4-track: Edirol R-4
Works great for me for small-scale location stuff, even running
independently on internaly batteries (AA cells). 40GB hard
drive for practically unlimited recording time.

That's a nice looking machine but it has all sorts of stuff I don't
need like microphones, preamps and effects. I already have a mixer,
Soundcraft EPM6, and I have microphones. Just need something (other
than my computer) to record and that can then transfer tracks to my
computer through USB.

Paul P

[Paul P[_2_]]

Federico wrote:

No stand alone digital recorder, the computer is a digital recorder already.
Get a good audio card with good preamps and you're done.

I don't want to use my computer (or buy another one). I prefer
separate boxes with real knobs and my mixer already provides preamps.

Paul P

[Paul P[_2_]]

George's Pro Sound Company wrote:

"Paul P" wrote in message
If anyone knows of a stand-alone digital equivalent of a bare-bones
eight (or evern four) track deck I'd like to know what it is.


how "bare bones" do you want to go
there are several offerings from tascam,zoom,fostex,roland in digital multi
track under 300$
real bare bones is the zoom h4

Yeah, but I don't get the impression that those are all that good
with respect to robustness, noise, and recording capacity. I'd like
to go to flash memory (like my Edirol R-1) if possible to eliminate
all noises of fans and hard discs and such but I could probably live
with a HDR if it was quiet.

Paul P

[Joe Kotroczo]

On 9/01/09 23:13, in article , "Paul P"
wrote:

George's Pro Sound Company wrote:

"Paul P" wrote in message
If anyone knows of a stand-alone digital equivalent of a bare-bones
eight (or evern four) track deck I'd like to know what it is.


how "bare bones" do you want to go
there are several offerings from tascam,zoom,fostex,roland in digital multi
track under 300$
real bare bones is the zoom h4

Yeah, but I don't get the impression that those are all that good
with respect to robustness, noise, and recording capacity. I'd like
to go to flash memory (like my Edirol R-1) if possible to eliminate
all noises of fans and hard discs and such but I could probably live
with a HDR if it was quiet.

I didn't see you mention a budget? And if it needs to be portable or not?

If money is not an issue, you could look at stuff like the Sound Devices
788T or 744T (8-track and 4-track, respectively). They do have stuff like
mic pres and so on though.

There's other similar products, like the Zaxcom Deva, the Aaton Cantar, the
Nagra VI, the Fostex PD-606, and so on. They're all aimed at the film
location recording market. (Meaning: portable, robust, battery powered,
silent, timecode).

Also the mic pres in these are very likely better than those in your EPM6,
so you might consider ditching that.

There's also a couple of more basic 2 track recorder that use CompactFlash
cards and are aimed at the radio reporter market, from Marantz and Fostex,
etc.

On the non-portable side, apart from the Alesis you mentioned there's also
the Tascam X-48, which goes up to 48 tracks and is an editor as well. Fostex
also has a relatively barebones 24 track recorder, the D2424LV. There's more
out there, the RADAR comes to mind for example.

So there's a quite a number of products out there. To narrow it down, you'll
have to be a bit more specific as to how much you're willing to spend and
what you're requirements are feature-wise.

You might also want to consult the newsgroups rec.audio.pro and
rec.arts.movies.production.sound. This one, alt.audio.pro.live-sound, is
more aimed towards concerts and stuff like that, rather than recording.


--
Joe Kotroczo

[Paul P[_2_]]

Joe Kotroczo wrote:

I didn't see you mention a budget? And if it needs to be portable or not?

If money is not an issue, you could look at stuff like the Sound Devices
788T or 744T (8-track and 4-track, respectively). They do have stuff like
mic pres and so on though.

There's other similar products, like the Zaxcom Deva, the Aaton Cantar, the
Nagra VI, the Fostex PD-606, and so on. They're all aimed at the film
location recording market. (Meaning: portable, robust, battery powered,
silent, timecode).
...

Thanks for all the suggestions I guess I was looking in the wrong
industry. I'll look into them but they're probably too good for me.

And sorry for this going to your newsgroup by way of the crossposting.

Paul P

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Richard Crowley wrote:

If anyone knows of a stand-alone digital equivalent of a bare-bones
eight (or evern four) track deck I'd like to know what it is.

4-track: Edirol R-4
Works great for me for small-scale location stuff, even running
independently on internaly batteries (AA cells). 40GB hard
drive for practically unlimited recording time.

And it the OP could get 2 and sync them, and it is a smaller alternative to
the other solution, a HD24. He could also get a Fostex that is the same size
as the HD24 but has fewer recommeded harddisks OR the brand new Fostex LR16.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Martin Drautzburg]

panfilero wrote:


Here's my question: In order to record say, guitar and keyboards....
should I purchase a mixer and then go from the mixer into the
computers sound card and then record with some software like cubase or
acid?

Most low-cost soundcards have really bad mic preamps. So when you want
to use a microphone you will need a microphone preamp. Keyboards should
works without one, because they have line outputs. Electric guitars
produce highr output that microphones, but a preamp would still help.
For electric guitar you need high-impedence inputs or you will lose
treble.

I was in the same situation two weeks ago and found microphone preamps
pretty expensive (for what they do). So I ended up buying a used
Behringer MX 802 mixer for 80 Euros. It has balanced microphone inputs
(even phantom powered) and it is very small. The mic inputs are several
orders of magnitude better than the ones in my soundcard.

If you do overdubs using a microhone you'll benefit from a mixer
anyways, because you need to create a headphone mix while sending the
microphone signal to the soundcard. You don't want the playback signal
on your speakers because the microphone will pick it up and of course
you don't want the microphone signal on you speakers because that may
cause feedback.

[jeffreyfrog]

I'm planning to build a home music studio on a budget. Any suggestions on "must have" equipment?

- I play piano so I need to find a decent 76/88 weighted-key keyboard....
- My wife sings so I need to find a decent vocal microphone....
- Anything else? Mixer? headphones?

http://www.findpianolessons.com

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

jeffreyfrog wrote:

I'm planning to build a home music studio on a budget.

Everything is "on a budget", I could tease you and ask what it is, but your
question reads as a play for the cheapest reasonable stuff.

Any suggestions
on "must have" equipment?

Depends drastically on just what you wnat to do.

- I play piano so I need to find a decent 76/88 weighted-key
keyboard....

If you play piano, then you should get one. If you need to "go artificial"
then go for an artificial piano if a piano is what you want. Knobs and
buttons cost, and a synth has more of those. There will be a potential
saving on mics to record it, but it is easier to get a real sonic
perspective when recording a real instrument, "line in stuff" tends to cling
to the front of the sonic image almost no matter what.

- My wife sings so I need to find a decent vocal microphone....

MCA SP1, combine with a pair of MXL 603's for the piano and a Fostex MR8HD,
that's about as low a budget you can get and you get real four track
multitracking. Do get a proper windscreen for the MCA SP1.

- Anything else? Mixer? headphones?

And headphones, but you don't need them for much, and you really do need to
mix on loudspeakers. Look for something smallish KEF and some 2 X 60 watts
power amp to drive them, preferably one with an input attenuator that you
leave at say -15 dB or so for use with the MR8HD.

Just my opinion, wait for other suggestions if there are any

Kind regards

Peter Larsen