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CharlesBlackstone CharlesBlackstone is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound quality? I
haven't been pleased with what I've heard. Clean, flat sound...

Thanks....

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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?



CharlesBlackstone wrote:

Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound quality? I
haven't been pleased with what I've heard. Clean, flat sound...


The fundamental problem here is the mp3s themselves. Mp3s 'throw away'
some of the information in order to compress the file. I doubt that any
mp3 player's electronics won't do the format justice.

Whilst the mp3 *decoder* is a fixed standard, the encoders aren't
however so you may get some improvement by using a superior encoder
along with the highest bit rate possible.

Graham


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CharlesBlackstone CharlesBlackstone is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?


CharlesBlackstone wrote:
Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound quality? I
haven't been pleased with what I've heard. Clean, flat sound...

Thanks....



Hi, thanks for the answers. I know about compression, etc., but are
there some MP3 players that, given high enough sample rates, or an
uncompressed file, sounds better than other MP3 players?

There seems to be a dearth of commentary about sound quality of MP3
players.

Thanks.

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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?



CharlesBlackstone wrote:

CharlesBlackstone wrote:
Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound quality? I
haven't been pleased with what I've heard. Clean, flat sound...

Thanks....


Hi, thanks for the answers. I know about compression, etc., but are
there some MP3 players that, given high enough sample rates, or an
uncompressed file, sounds better than other MP3 players?


I truly haven't a clue. I've never seen any manufacturer of one use
sound quality as a selling point.


There seems to be a dearth of commentary about sound quality of MP3
players.


Because quality isn't their function ?

Graham



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Harry Lavo Harry Lavo is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?


"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


CharlesBlackstone wrote:

CharlesBlackstone wrote:
Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound quality? I
haven't been pleased with what I've heard. Clean, flat sound...

Thanks....


Hi, thanks for the answers. I know about compression, etc., but are
there some MP3 players that, given high enough sample rates, or an
uncompressed file, sounds better than other MP3 players?


I truly haven't a clue. I've never seen any manufacturer of one use
sound quality as a selling point.


There seems to be a dearth of commentary about sound quality of MP3
players.


Because quality isn't their function ?


I seem to recall that about two years ago either Stereophile or The Abso!ute
Sound had very nice things to say about one of the iPods, the gist being
that it had much better sound quality than any other portable mp3-type
player, especially in the bass. You might wish to check the archives of
those two mags.


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Default High quality MP3 players?

Well, it's worth remembering that the iPod Nano, not that the OP mentions
their type of MP3 player, does support a lossless compression method.
The file size isn't that good, but at least it's lossless, and I'd
expect the sound quality to be equivalent to that of a CD player;
no reason why it shouldn't be. Presumably all modern iPods offer this option.
Trouble is, as I said, my iPod Nano is the 4GB model, and at 40-odd MB (IIRC)
per song with lossless compression, you don't get much on there.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie


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Harry Lavo Harry Lavo is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?


"Fleetie" wrote in message
...
Well, it's worth remembering that the iPod Nano, not that the OP mentions
their type of MP3 player, does support a lossless compression method.
The file size isn't that good, but at least it's lossless, and I'd
expect the sound quality to be equivalent to that of a CD player;
no reason why it shouldn't be. Presumably all modern iPods offer this
option.
Trouble is, as I said, my iPod Nano is the 4GB model, and at 40-odd MB
(IIRC)
per song with lossless compression, you don't get much on there.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967
110890
Manchester, U.K.
http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie


The new Nanos now include an 8GB model.


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

Fleetie wrote:
Well, it's worth remembering that the iPod Nano, not that the OP mentions
their type of MP3 player, does support a lossless compression method.
The file size isn't that good, but at least it's lossless, and I'd
expect the sound quality to be equivalent to that of a CD player;
no reason why it shouldn't be. Presumably all modern iPods offer this option.


You're still stuck with D/A converters and headphone preamps crammed into
a tiny little box and designed to operate with as low power consumption as
possible. I have trouble imagining that somethng that can operate off a
couple NiCd cells is going to sound as good as the Prism converter and Krell
headphone amp, which probably take a total of 500W to run. Of course, you
can't carry them on the bus, but that's another issue.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Bertie the Bunyip Bertie the Bunyip is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

Eeyore wrote in
:



CharlesBlackstone wrote:

CharlesBlackstone wrote:
Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound quality? I
haven't been pleased with what I've heard. Clean, flat sound...

Thanks....


Hi, thanks for the answers. I know about compression, etc., but are
there some MP3 players that, given high enough sample rates, or an
uncompressed file, sounds better than other MP3 players?


I truly haven't a clue. I've never seen any manufacturer of one use
sound quality as a selling point.


There seems to be a dearth of commentary about sound quality of MP3
players.


Because quality isn't their function ?

Graham



netkkkoping ****




Bertie


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Bertie the Bunyip Bertie the Bunyip is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

Eeyore wrote in
:



CharlesBlackstone wrote:

Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound quality? I
haven't been pleased with what I've heard. Clean, flat sound...


The fundamental problem here is the mp3s themselves. Mp3s 'throw away'
some of the information in order to compress the file. I doubt that

any
mp3 player's electronics won't do the format justice.

Whilst the mp3 *decoder* is a fixed standard, the encoders aren't
however so you may get some improvement by using a superior encoder
along with the highest bit rate possible.

Graham




netkkkpping wannabe



Bertie
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AZ Nomad AZ Nomad is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

On 15 Oct 2006 12:21:08 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:


Fleetie wrote:
Well, it's worth remembering that the iPod Nano, not that the OP mentions
their type of MP3 player, does support a lossless compression method.
The file size isn't that good, but at least it's lossless, and I'd
expect the sound quality to be equivalent to that of a CD player;
no reason why it shouldn't be. Presumably all modern iPods offer this option.


You're still stuck with D/A converters and headphone preamps crammed into
a tiny little box and designed to operate with as low power consumption as
possible. I have trouble imagining that somethng that can operate off a
couple NiCd cells is going to sound as good as the Prism converter and Krell
headphone amp, which probably take a total of 500W to run. Of course, you
can't carry them on the bus, but that's another issue.

hee hee. five hundred watts?

Of course you mean mW...
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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?



Tim Padrick wrote:

Losslesss compression? Neither the CD format nor even 24/96 are lossless.
The compression methods are (audibly) lossless only if you did not have a
very good sounding audio file to begin with.


You think 24/96 is lossy ?

Graham


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

AZ Nomad wrote:
On 15 Oct 2006 12:21:08 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Fleetie wrote:
Well, it's worth remembering that the iPod Nano, not that the OP mentions
their type of MP3 player, does support a lossless compression method.
The file size isn't that good, but at least it's lossless, and I'd
expect the sound quality to be equivalent to that of a CD player;
no reason why it shouldn't be. Presumably all modern iPods offer this option.


You're still stuck with D/A converters and headphone preamps crammed into
a tiny little box and designed to operate with as low power consumption as
possible. I have trouble imagining that somethng that can operate off a
couple NiCd cells is going to sound as good as the Prism converter and Krell
headphone amp, which probably take a total of 500W to run. Of course, you
can't carry them on the bus, but that's another issue.


hee hee. five hundred watts?

Of course you mean mW...


No. Input current on the Prism is about two amps. It gets pretty warm while
in normal use. I think the idle input current on the 5W Krell amp is something
in the two-amp range as well. That's about typical. I'm assuming 110V power
here.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

Eeyore wrote:
Tim Padrick wrote:

Losslesss compression? Neither the CD format nor even 24/96 are lossless.
The compression methods are (audibly) lossless only if you did not have a
very good sounding audio file to begin with.


You think 24/96 is lossy ?


I think he is, in a somewhat less than coherent and direct way, referring to
converter issues.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?



Scott Dorsey wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Tim Padrick wrote:

Losslesss compression? Neither the CD format nor even 24/96 are lossless.
The compression methods are (audibly) lossless only if you did not have a
very good sounding audio file to begin with.


You think 24/96 is lossy ?


I think he is, in a somewhat less than coherent and direct way, referring to
converter issues.


I reckon today's 24 bit converters ought to be good enough for the job.

Graham

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AZ Nomad AZ Nomad is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 12:56:28 -0500, Tim Padrick wrote:


"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On 15 Oct 2006 12:21:08 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:


Fleetie wrote:
Well, it's worth remembering that the iPod Nano, not that the OP mentions
their type of MP3 player, does support a lossless compression method.
The file size isn't that good, but at least it's lossless, and I'd
expect the sound quality to be equivalent to that of a CD player;
no reason why it shouldn't be. Presumably all modern iPods offer this
option.


You're still stuck with D/A converters and headphone preamps crammed into
a tiny little box and designed to operate with as low power consumption as
possible. I have trouble imagining that somethng that can operate off a
couple NiCd cells is going to sound as good as the Prism converter and
Krell
headphone amp, which probably take a total of 500W to run. Of course, you
can't carry them on the bus, but that's another issue.

hee hee. five hundred watts?

Of course you mean mW...


Losslesss compression? Neither the CD format nor even 24/96 are lossless.
The compression methods are (audibly) lossless only if you did not have a
very good sounding audio file to begin with.


You have no concept of mp3 compression. It is completely different than
analog audio compression.

If you put a digital audio stream through a lossless mp3 compression algorithm,
it is indeed totally lossless. The digital data coming out is *exactly* the
same as the data going in.
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AZ Nomad AZ Nomad is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

On 15 Oct 2006 13:26:43 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:


AZ Nomad wrote:
On 15 Oct 2006 12:21:08 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Fleetie wrote:
Well, it's worth remembering that the iPod Nano, not that the OP mentions
their type of MP3 player, does support a lossless compression method.
The file size isn't that good, but at least it's lossless, and I'd
expect the sound quality to be equivalent to that of a CD player;
no reason why it shouldn't be. Presumably all modern iPods offer this option.


You're still stuck with D/A converters and headphone preamps crammed into
a tiny little box and designed to operate with as low power consumption as
possible. I have trouble imagining that somethng that can operate off a
couple NiCd cells is going to sound as good as the Prism converter and Krell
headphone amp, which probably take a total of 500W to run. Of course, you
can't carry them on the bus, but that's another issue.


hee hee. five hundred watts?

Of course you mean mW...


No. Input current on the Prism is about two amps. It gets pretty warm while
in normal use. I think the idle input current on the 5W Krell amp is something
in the two-amp range as well. That's about typical. I'm assuming 110V power
here.


Are you seriously argueing that a headphone amp needs five hundred watts?
What planet are you from?
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AZ Nomad AZ Nomad is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

On 15 Oct 2006 13:27:53 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:


Eeyore wrote:
Tim Padrick wrote:

Losslesss compression? Neither the CD format nor even 24/96 are lossless.
The compression methods are (audibly) lossless only if you did not have a
very good sounding audio file to begin with.


You think 24/96 is lossy ?


I think he is, in a somewhat less than coherent and direct way, referring to
converter issues.


He hasn't the slightest clue of what mp3 compression is.
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Tim Padrick Tim Padrick is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On 15 Oct 2006 12:21:08 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:


Fleetie wrote:
Well, it's worth remembering that the iPod Nano, not that the OP mentions
their type of MP3 player, does support a lossless compression method.
The file size isn't that good, but at least it's lossless, and I'd
expect the sound quality to be equivalent to that of a CD player;
no reason why it shouldn't be. Presumably all modern iPods offer this
option.


You're still stuck with D/A converters and headphone preamps crammed into
a tiny little box and designed to operate with as low power consumption as
possible. I have trouble imagining that somethng that can operate off a
couple NiCd cells is going to sound as good as the Prism converter and
Krell
headphone amp, which probably take a total of 500W to run. Of course, you
can't carry them on the bus, but that's another issue.

hee hee. five hundred watts?

Of course you mean mW...


Losslesss compression? Neither the CD format nor even 24/96 are lossless.
The compression methods are (audibly) lossless only if you did not have a
very good sounding audio file to begin with.




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Default High quality MP3 players?


"CharlesBlackstone" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound quality? I
haven't been pleased with what I've heard. Clean, flat sound...


The best approach is to determine for sure that it's the mp3 coding that's
responsible for the unpleasing sound. Can you play .wav files on your mp3
player? If so, load one of those and see how it sounds. If it still
doesn't sound good--even with wav files--then it's the player not the lossy
compression that's at fault.

Find a player that sounds good uncompressed. Then is soon enough to
experiment with mp3.

Norm Strong


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Mr Fox Mr Fox is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:39:26 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:


You have no concept of mp3 compression.



An Do you?

It is completely different than
analog audio compression.

If you put a digital audio stream through a lossless mp3 compression algorithm,
it is indeed totally lossless. The digital data coming out is *exactly* the
same as the data going in.



Tell me;' what mp3 compression algorithms are completely lossless?
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Sander deWaal Sander deWaal is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

AZ Nomad said:


You're still stuck with D/A converters and headphone preamps crammed into
a tiny little box and designed to operate with as low power consumption as
possible. I have trouble imagining that somethng that can operate off a
couple NiCd cells is going to sound as good as the Prism converter and Krell
headphone amp, which probably take a total of 500W to run. Of course, you
can't carry them on the bus, but that's another issue.



hee hee. five hundred watts?


Of course you mean mW...



No. Input current on the Prism is about two amps. It gets pretty warm while
in normal use. I think the idle input current on the 5W Krell amp is something
in the two-amp range as well. That's about typical. I'm assuming 110V power
here.



Are you seriously argueing that a headphone amp needs five hundred watts?
What planet are you from?




Is this a Nelson Pass design, perhaps? ;-)

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."
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Default High quality MP3 players?

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 12:56:28 -0500, "Tim Padrick"
wrote:

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On 15 Oct 2006 12:21:08 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:


Fleetie wrote:
Well, it's worth remembering that the iPod Nano, not that the OP mentions
their type of MP3 player, does support a lossless compression method.
The file size isn't that good, but at least it's lossless, and I'd
expect the sound quality to be equivalent to that of a CD player;
no reason why it shouldn't be. Presumably all modern iPods offer this
option.


You're still stuck with D/A converters and headphone preamps crammed into
a tiny little box and designed to operate with as low power consumption as
possible. I have trouble imagining that somethng that can operate off a
couple NiCd cells is going to sound as good as the Prism converter and
Krell
headphone amp, which probably take a total of 500W to run. Of course, you
can't carry them on the bus, but that's another issue.

hee hee. five hundred watts?

Of course you mean mW...


Losslesss compression? Neither the CD format nor even 24/96 are lossless.
The compression methods are (audibly) lossless only if you did not have a
very good sounding audio file to begin with.



Don't be shy-= speak in an authoritative manner if you know wat yr
talking about, Dilbert.
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

AZ Nomad wrote:

Are you seriously argueing that a headphone amp needs five hundred watts?
What planet are you from?


I'm not saying it needs it, but I'm saying it sure does sound good and
it measures pretty damn well too. Yes, it's overkill for the job but
there's nothing wrong with that. The constant attempt to cut every corner
possible in attempts to make things more cheap and more portable is not
beneficial to sound quality.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Bertie the Bunyip Bertie the Bunyip is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

Eeyore wrote in
:



Tim Padrick wrote:

Losslesss compression? Neither the CD format nor even 24/96 are
lossless. The compression methods are (audibly) lossless only if you
did not have a very good sounding audio file to begin with.


You think 24/96 is lossy ?

Graham



Fjukkwit know nothing



bertei
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Default High quality MP3 players?

In article ,
Signal wrote:

"CharlesBlackstone" wrote:

Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound quality? I
haven't been pleased with what I've heard. Clean, flat sound...

Thanks....



I forgot about the iPod Shuffle. This is alleged to have the best
sound quality.


Even if true, it seems like it would be a pain in the arse to use.
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Default High quality MP3 players?

On 15 Oct 2006 14:40:24 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:


AZ Nomad wrote:

Are you seriously argueing that a headphone amp needs five hundred watts?
What planet are you from?


I'm not saying it needs it, but I'm saying it sure does sound good and
it measures pretty damn well too. Yes, it's overkill for the job but
there's nothing wrong with that. The constant attempt to cut every corner
possible in attempts to make things more cheap and more portable is not
beneficial to sound quality.


Not only that, but you can use it to heat a medium sized room.
****, my amp for my main speakers doesn't need 500W even at 40-50% efficiency.

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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
Tim Padrick wrote:

Losslesss compression? Neither the CD format nor even
24/96 are lossless. The compression methods are
(audibly) lossless only if you did not have a very good
sounding audio file to begin with.


You think 24/96 is lossy ?


Remember that in the eyes of an analog bigot, 24/96 is "lossy" compared to
the "infinite resolution" and "infinite bandwidth" of analog. Back in the
real world, as soon as music storage is involved, the bandwidth and
resoluation of analog is very much less than that of good digital, even the
"lowly" of the CD.


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"CharlesBlackstone" wrote
in message
ups.com
Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound
quality? I haven't been pleased with what I've heard.
Clean, flat sound...


There have long been a number of portable digital players that supported
uncompressed, lossless digital formats, including the same digital format as
the CD. The iPod and my "ancient" Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox fit into that
category. Any digital player that supports 44/16 .wav format files, and many
can, is able to store audio CDs with zero loss of informtion.

In terms of sound quality, the next major area of shortcoming of portable
digital players relates to the maximum amplitude that their headphone jacks
can provide. Most of them are hard put to deliver much more than a 1 volt
RMS signal to an 8 ohm load. I mention 8 ohms because there are a number of
headphones and earphones that have impedances speced in the 12-16 ohm range,
and some may go slower within the audio range. These output power
limitations are often a response to legal requirements.

There are two circumventions to this problem. One is to pick "professsional"
equipment that can legally avoid some consumer safety regulations.

Another somewhat bulkier and inconvenient approach is to augment the output
of the headphone jack of a consumer digtial player with an external
amplifier. This amplifier should have a gain of from 6 to 12 db and provide
a maximum output of from 2 to 5 volts RMS into an 8-16 ohm load.

I don't personally know of any equipment that would meet all of these specs,
but it seems like it should exist.

I do see a number of web sources for headphone amplifiers that have the
potential to meet these specs.

I still have that Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox loaded with about 20 gigabytes
of .wav files, and it has a more robust headphone jack than most.

I've also had pretty good luck powering the low-priced but really pretty
clean "Boostaroo" with an external 5 volt power supply for added dynamic
range.

I don't know if it would be an optimial solution, but if I had to replace my
Nomad Jukebox tomorrow, I might be tempted to try a M-Audio Microtrack
digital recorder/player. Unfortunately its headphone jack is speced to be a
little on the weak side (under 1 volt), so an external headphone amp would
still be required.








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George M. Middius George M. Middius is offline
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Default Arnii Krooger, exemplar of kristianity ;-)



The Krooborg steps up to lead a Tolerance Prayer.

an analog bigot


How was church today, Arnii?

I hope you told your pastor that you alienated yet another Kroopologist.
That should earn you some points toward your Satanic Merit Badge.




--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006
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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

"Signal" wrote in message

"CharlesBlackstone"
wrote:

There seems to be a dearth of commentary about sound
quality of MP3 players.


Google "Rightmark" and the name of the player you are
interested in. There is some stuff out there.


IME good advice.

FWIW I also second Paul's comments about the iPod - the headphone jack has a
fairly weak output, but with a suitable booster and a good load of
uncompressed audio files, it can provide pretty good sound.


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CharlesBlackstone CharlesBlackstone is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?


Eeyore wrote:
CharlesBlackstone wrote:

CharlesBlackstone wrote:
Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound quality? I
haven't been pleased with what I've heard. Clean, flat sound...

Thanks....


Hi, thanks for the answers. I know about compression, etc., but are
there some MP3 players that, given high enough sample rates, or an
uncompressed file, sounds better than other MP3 players?


I truly haven't a clue. I've never seen any manufacturer of one use
sound quality as a selling point.


There seems to be a dearth of commentary about sound quality of MP3
players.


Because quality isn't their function ?

Graham


Heh, yeah, however, MAudio uses some software (sorry, forgot the name)
developed by (sorry, forgot their name too) that is supposed to give
good sound, and they promote that. On the MP3 group it's touted. Also,
some manufacturers use the Wolfson audio chips, that are supposed to be
a better chip set. But some of those are obsolete. The previous Nano
used them. I don't think the new ones use them or at least the same
ones. But, I have no experience with these.

Thanks much....

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Default High quality MP3 players?


Harry Lavo wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


CharlesBlackstone wrote:

CharlesBlackstone wrote:
Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound quality? I
haven't been pleased with what I've heard. Clean, flat sound...

Thanks....

Hi, thanks for the answers. I know about compression, etc., but are
there some MP3 players that, given high enough sample rates, or an
uncompressed file, sounds better than other MP3 players?


I truly haven't a clue. I've never seen any manufacturer of one use
sound quality as a selling point.


There seems to be a dearth of commentary about sound quality of MP3
players.


Because quality isn't their function ?


I seem to recall that about two years ago either Stereophile or The Abso!ute
Sound had very nice things to say about one of the iPods, the gist being
that it had much better sound quality than any other portable mp3-type
player, especially in the bass. You might wish to check the archives of
those two mags.


Thanks much, I will. Used to be a Stereophile reader....



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CharlesBlackstone CharlesBlackstone is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?


Scott Dorsey wrote:
Fleetie wrote:
Well, it's worth remembering that the iPod Nano, not that the OP mentions
their type of MP3 player, does support a lossless compression method.
The file size isn't that good, but at least it's lossless, and I'd
expect the sound quality to be equivalent to that of a CD player;
no reason why it shouldn't be. Presumably all modern iPods offer this option.


You're still stuck with D/A converters and headphone preamps crammed into
a tiny little box and designed to operate with as low power consumption as
possible. I have trouble imagining that somethng that can operate off a
couple NiCd cells is going to sound as good as the Prism converter and Krell
headphone amp, which probably take a total of 500W to run. Of course, you
can't carry them on the bus, but that's another issue.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Thanks. Well, you CAN carry them on the bus.....but it would be a bit
awkward... :-)

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CharlesBlackstone CharlesBlackstone is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?


Arny Krueger wrote:
"CharlesBlackstone" wrote
in message
ups.com
Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound
quality? I haven't been pleased with what I've heard.
Clean, flat sound...


There have long been a number of portable digital players that supported
uncompressed, lossless digital formats, including the same digital format as
the CD. The iPod and my "ancient" Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox fit into that
category. Any digital player that supports 44/16 .wav format files, and many
can, is able to store audio CDs with zero loss of informtion.

In terms of sound quality, the next major area of shortcoming of portable
digital players relates to the maximum amplitude that their headphone jacks
can provide. Most of them are hard put to deliver much more than a 1 volt
RMS signal to an 8 ohm load. I mention 8 ohms because there are a number of
headphones and earphones that have impedances speced in the 12-16 ohm range,
and some may go slower within the audio range. These output power
limitations are often a response to legal requirements.

There are two circumventions to this problem. One is to pick "professsional"
equipment that can legally avoid some consumer safety regulations.

Another somewhat bulkier and inconvenient approach is to augment the output
of the headphone jack of a consumer digtial player with an external
amplifier. This amplifier should have a gain of from 6 to 12 db and provide
a maximum output of from 2 to 5 volts RMS into an 8-16 ohm load.

I don't personally know of any equipment that would meet all of these specs,
but it seems like it should exist.

I do see a number of web sources for headphone amplifiers that have the
potential to meet these specs.

I still have that Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox loaded with about 20 gigabytes
of .wav files, and it has a more robust headphone jack than most.

I've also had pretty good luck powering the low-priced but really pretty
clean "Boostaroo" with an external 5 volt power supply for added dynamic
range.

I don't know if it would be an optimial solution, but if I had to replace my
Nomad Jukebox tomorrow, I might be tempted to try a M-Audio Microtrack
digital recorder/player. Unfortunately its headphone jack is speced to be a
little on the weak side (under 1 volt), so an external headphone amp would
still be required.




Thanks for the great answer, Arny. Well, there's always Headroom's
stuff, but this is for my cycling workout and I'm not keen on carrying
the amp (though it would attach to the bike....hm....). I also carry
my current Samsung YP-u1 around my neck all day, and it wouldn't work
there. But I'm intrigued by your mention of "professional" equipment. I
have been perusing MP3 stuff on the web for a while and haven't seen
mention of such. Seems kinda antithetical to the whole idea of MP3.

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Jenn Jenn is offline
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Default High quality MP3 players?

In article . com,
"CharlesBlackstone" wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:
"CharlesBlackstone" wrote
in message
ups.com
Hi all....

Anybody know of an MP3 player that has superior sound
quality? I haven't been pleased with what I've heard.
Clean, flat sound...


There have long been a number of portable digital players that supported
uncompressed, lossless digital formats, including the same digital format as
the CD. The iPod and my "ancient" Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox fit into that
category. Any digital player that supports 44/16 .wav format files, and many
can, is able to store audio CDs with zero loss of informtion.

In terms of sound quality, the next major area of shortcoming of portable
digital players relates to the maximum amplitude that their headphone jacks
can provide. Most of them are hard put to deliver much more than a 1 volt
RMS signal to an 8 ohm load. I mention 8 ohms because there are a number of
headphones and earphones that have impedances speced in the 12-16 ohm range,
and some may go slower within the audio range. These output power
limitations are often a response to legal requirements.

There are two circumventions to this problem. One is to pick "professsional"
equipment that can legally avoid some consumer safety regulations.

Another somewhat bulkier and inconvenient approach is to augment the output
of the headphone jack of a consumer digtial player with an external
amplifier. This amplifier should have a gain of from 6 to 12 db and provide
a maximum output of from 2 to 5 volts RMS into an 8-16 ohm load.

I don't personally know of any equipment that would meet all of these specs,
but it seems like it should exist.

I do see a number of web sources for headphone amplifiers that have the
potential to meet these specs.

I still have that Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox loaded with about 20 gigabytes
of .wav files, and it has a more robust headphone jack than most.

I've also had pretty good luck powering the low-priced but really pretty
clean "Boostaroo" with an external 5 volt power supply for added dynamic
range.

I don't know if it would be an optimial solution, but if I had to replace my
Nomad Jukebox tomorrow, I might be tempted to try a M-Audio Microtrack
digital recorder/player. Unfortunately its headphone jack is speced to be a
little on the weak side (under 1 volt), so an external headphone amp would
still be required.




Thanks for the great answer, Arny.


It WAS a great answer, IMV.

Well, there's always Headroom's
stuff, but this is for my cycling workout and I'm not keen on carrying
the amp (though it would attach to the bike....hm....). I also carry
my current Samsung YP-u1 around my neck all day, and it wouldn't work
there. But I'm intrigued by your mention of "professional" equipment. I
have been perusing MP3 stuff on the web for a while and haven't seen
mention of such. Seems kinda antithetical to the whole idea of MP3.

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CharlesBlackstone CharlesBlackstone is offline
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Posts: 21
Default Arnii Krooger, exemplar of kristianity ;-)


George M. Middius wrote:
The Krooborg steps up to lead a Tolerance Prayer.

an analog bigot


How was church today, Arnii?

I hope you told your pastor that you alienated yet another Kroopologist.
That should earn you some points toward your Satanic Merit Badge.




--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006





Hey George, I don't know you, but I'm glad of it.

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George M. Middius George M. Middius is offline
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Posts: 5,173
Default Arnii Krooger, exemplar of kristianity ;-)



CharlesBlackstone said:

The Krooborg steps up to lead a Tolerance Prayer.


an analog bigot


How was church today, Arnii?


I hope you told your pastor that you alienated yet another Kroopologist.
That should earn you some points toward your Satanic Merit Badge.


Hey George, I don't know you, but I'm glad of it.


Apparently you don't know the Krooborg either. ;-)




--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006
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