On Mon, 01 May 2006 11:35:36 +0100, Laurence Payne
lpayneNOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:

On Mon, 01 May 2006 11:22:43 +0100, Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

Most residential POTS service in the UK is fully digital from
end to end?

Yes, it is.

No it isn't. The line into my house (and everyone else's house) is
copper, delivering an analogue voltage to an analogue handset.

OK, if you want to be picky, it's digital up to the point where it
leaves the last distribution box.

That's not being picky. It's a vital factor. The service available
to a user is limited to what will go down an analogue connection. No
matter if that connection is only a few inches long, it's still a
bottleneck.

Utter bull****. The signal has to be analogue when it enters the house
- that's not a bottleneck, that's delivery of a *useable* POTS signal,
just like the output of a DAC in a hi-fi system. If you want something
else coming into your house, then it's not a 'phone line, and can't be
described as providing a POTS.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

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On Mon, 01 May 2006 13:21:12 +0100, Laurence Payne
lpayneNOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:

On Mon, 01 May 2006 12:07:58 +0100, Nick Gorham
wrote:

That's not being picky. It's a vital factor. The service available
to a user is limited to what will go down an analogue connection. No
matter if that connection is only a few inches long, it's still a
bottleneck.

But to continue being picky, the pairs in a length of CAT5 don't know or
care if the signal they carry is being called analog or digital, its
still just a voltage that varies with time. And the "analog" cable from
the phone co distribution box here carries analog voice, and used to
carry digital ISDN, and now carries both analog voice and digital ADSL
at the same time. So what is it, analog or digital, or maybe it doesn't
matter.


We're talking about POTS aren't we? It's analogue.

At the domestic master socket, yes, but the *cable* isn't necessarily
the limitation, and nowadays is often also delivering up to an 8Mb/sec
ADSL digital signal. Which brings us neatly back on topic.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

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On Mon, 01 May 2006 14:40:20 +0100, Laurence Payne
lpayneNOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:

On Mon, 01 May 2006 11:22:43 +0100, Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

No it isn't. The line into my house (and everyone else's house) is
copper, delivering an analogue voltage to an analogue handset.

OK, if you want to be picky, it's digital up to the point where it
leaves the last distribution box.

Wrong again. A distribution box distributes. You mean a convertor
box.

Whatever - was my *meaning* unclear to you?

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

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On Tue, 02 May 2006 03:59:31 -0800, (Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:

tony sayer wrote:
In article , Floyd L. Davidson
writes
tony sayer wrote:

I don't have a great deal of confidence in someone who is
getting their information from "cable jointers" alongside the
road.

Not quite so. One of these guys was quite old and very experienced, and
could recall the days of lead covered cable where they had to do wiped
joints etc. So don't despise the benefit of experience. Those guys have
probably seem more cable close up than you'll ever likely too!.

Given another 10 or 20 years, they will no doubt catch up. :-)

Course they don't specify it, but some old BT "Poles and holes" staff do
know a lot more that you'd give 'em credit for!..

How would you judge whether that is true or not?

It's likely that we are looking at a culture difference here. I used
to work for Hughes Aircraft at the Tucson AZ plant, and I was
staggered at the detail in the training manuals for basic electronic
assembly workers. Then I got into conversations in the staff canteens,
and I understood the reason for difference. In the US, many 'skilled'
workers are virtually illiterate by UK standards, but have excellent
and highly detailed training which allows them to perform very
specific tasks competently. In the UK, we tend to have a broader
educational system (we consider the term 'high school graduate' to be
hilarious), with not far off 50% of school leavers going to University
or similar tertiary education.

As a result, the general level of education in 'low-grade' technicians
is significantly higher in the UK than in the US, and they have much
more capability when things go a little 'outside the box'. It's
perfectly reasonable to suppose that a 'pole and hole' man over here
would be perfectly familiar with the technology he was installing, and
that one over there would not. Indeed, I had an interesting chat with
the guy who changed our electricity meter while he was doing the work
a couple of years ago, and he was fully aware of the operating
principles both of the old 'spinning disc' eddy current meter he was
remnoving, and the new Hall Effect meter he was installing. I
seriously doubt that would be the case in Arizona!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

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On Tue, 02 May 2006 17:51:38 +0100, Stewart Pinkerton
Gave us:

Presumably, you don't actually *come* from California, do ya, boy?

I've got nine inches of "boy" to go up in your retarded ass with,
little girl.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 03:54:41 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
wrote:

On Tue, 02 May 2006 17:51:38 +0100, Stewart Pinkerton
Gave us:

Presumably, you don't actually *come* from California, do ya, boy?

I've got nine inches of "boy" to go up in your retarded ass with,
little girl.

Thought so, boy. Had to be somewhere in the South, or maybe more
likely the Appalachians. Squeal, piggy!

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

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On Wed, 03 May 2006 06:53:07 +0100, Stewart Pinkerton
Gave us:

On Wed, 03 May 2006 03:54:41 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
wrote:

On Tue, 02 May 2006 17:51:38 +0100, Stewart Pinkerton
Gave us:

Presumably, you don't actually *come* from California, do ya, boy?

I've got nine inches of "boy" to go up in your retarded ass with,
little girl.

Thought so, boy. Had to be somewhere in the South, or maybe more
likely the Appalachians. Squeal, piggy!

You're a goddamned retard. No wonder Hughes fired your lame ass.

Roy L. Fuchs wrote:

Ah. THAT'S why America is picking fights with everyone! Fair
enough. Where would you like bombed first? :-)
World Trade Center? Oh, wait a minute... :-)
Poor taste retard. That's what you are.

Poor taste, yes. Retard, no.

Just politically incorrect and proud of it.

Two Muslim women in Millets trying on rucksacks - one says to the other
"does my bomb look big in this?"

Difference between Basil Brush and a Muslim? A Muslim only goes boom once.

etc etc...

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

Laurence Payne wrote:

Most residential POTS service in the UK is fully digital from
end to end?
Yes, it is.
No it isn't. The line into my house (and everyone else's house) is
copper, delivering an analogue voltage to an analogue handset.

Not here it isn't. The main voice line coming into the building is ISDN.

The fax line is analogue though (and is the one that carries the ADSL
broadband as well).

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

On Wed, 03 May 2006 06:27:57 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
wrote:

On Wed, 03 May 2006 06:53:07 +0100, Stewart Pinkerton
Gave us:

On Wed, 03 May 2006 03:54:41 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
wrote:

On Tue, 02 May 2006 17:51:38 +0100, Stewart Pinkerton
Gave us:

Presumably, you don't actually *come* from California, do ya, boy?

I've got nine inches of "boy" to go up in your retarded ass with,
little girl.

Thought so, boy. Had to be somewhere in the South, or maybe more
likely the Appalachians. Squeal, piggy!

You're a goddamned retard. No wonder Hughes fired your lame ass.

Score! I'd love ta meet your wife, your sister and your cousin - if
she's still with you. Getting back to audio, how's your collection of
banjo music doing?

Actually, I left Hughes because I was invited to take up the post of
Head of Electronics and Computer Applications at the Production
Engineering Research Association - but thanks for playing.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

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On Wed, 03 May 2006 22:18:01 +0100, Glenn Richards
wrote:

Most residential POTS service in the UK is fully digital from
end to end?
Yes, it is.
No it isn't. The line into my house (and everyone else's house) is
copper, delivering an analogue voltage to an analogue handset.

Not here it isn't. The main voice line coming into the building is ISDN.

The fax line is analogue though (and is the one that carries the ADSL
broadband as well).

Note that POTS is the topic under discussion.

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Wed, 03 May 2006 22:18:01 +0100, Glenn Richards
wrote:


Most residential POTS service in the UK is fully digital from
end to end?

Yes, it is.

No it isn't. The line into my house (and everyone else's house) is
copper, delivering an analogue voltage to an analogue handset.

Not here it isn't. The main voice line coming into the building is ISDN.

The fax line is analogue though (and is the one that carries the ADSL
broadband as well).


Note that POTS is the topic under discussion.

HTH
Sue

Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

Distortion can *always* be counteracted by the introduction of
an "error signal" which is opposite to the distortion.
Therefore it would seem that distortion is necessarily a signal
in all cases.


Distortion is a modifying influence. It is not a signal.
A distorted signal is the result.

Distortion can be countered by applying a counter-modifying
influence such as with feedback for example.