After reading about Linux and how great it is for audio production I
decided to give it a try on one of my systems.
For the record, I have never used Linux before.

I downloaded Mandrake 10, burned the CD's and booted up my P4 based system
with an Midiman Delta 1010 and a built in Intel Soundmax chipset as well.

The install went pretty well and I was surprised that it was pretty much a
no brainer. I was confused by questions concerning domain name and some
other networking question, but I just made up something and it seems to
connect to the net via my cable connection.

I played a few games, most of which kind of look like games I played as a
kid back in the 70's.

IOW Packman, Asteroids and Space Invaders are alive and well!
It was kinda fun though!

So now I start looking for these applications that are supposed to be so
great.
I found two, Audacity which is supposed to be a sound file editor and
Ardour which claims to be a hard disk recording system.

I played with both of them for hours and couldn't get a squeek from either
one.
Ardour complained about something called "Jack".
Sorry but I don't know Jack, although I found him and tried to install him.

Unfortunately Jack has a LOT OF FRIENDS!!

When I tried to download Jack I discovered a new term "dependency" which
as best I can tell is similar to Windows DLL hell.

One program needs another program which needs another library which still
needs 3 more libraries and it just goes on into oblivion.
I spent hours finding all of these things and finally got it all to
install.

So now I start this jack thing, which really isn't jack but jackd and
seems to require options that are 128 letters and numbers long!
But, I got it going.

I start Ardour and get a message saying I have no direct access to the
sound device.

Hmm, that's odd since I can play wave files with a program named XMMMS.

I google this message and figure out I must run these programs as rooty,
whomever the hell he is.

That doesn't work either because I get some message about not being able
to open display 0:0 or something like that.

I google that message and learn about SUX!
I am not kidding, SUX.

So I use SUX and now I can start jackd and ardour but when I try to record
anything I get no life on the meters.
I play with the seemingly endless amount of mixer applications included
with Linux and have no joy.

Why on earth does Linux install 10 different mixers?

Use them and you will have your answer.

Finally I give up and decide to try Audacity.

Audacity doesn't seem to be a friend of Jack because if I start Jack,
audacity will not run.

Ok, so I just start Audacity and find I can play files, record files but
everything is very slow and stutters on occasion.

Real odd for a system that can easily play back multitudes of tracks will
recording others under Windows XP.

It's a P4ht 3.0ghz with 2gig of RAM and 6 10k RPM SCSI drives.

I screw with settings some more and after 2 total days of screwing with
the abortion, I give up.
I just do not have the time, nor the patience to spend my days searching
the internet for solutions to problems that many others seem to be having
as well.

Conclusion is I would not recommend this Linux to my worst enemy.
Maybe as a RAIDED file storage system but for creation, tracking, mixing
NO WAY.

The entire platform seems crude and not quite finished and while there is
a wealth of information on the net, I don't have the time to spend
searching to make basic things work.

FWIW I have never opened a Sonar/Soundforge/Cusbase/Audtion/Protools
manual and yet I can make this stuff work just fine.

Linux has potential, but for now, it's really just a waste of time.
And yes I did manage to stumble on one pro studio using it, but even they
regressed and kept their Mac systems after the initial excitement over
Linux disappeared.

Just my opinion.

Bob Weston

P.S I posted this to the groups where the Linux posts seem to be
originating.

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:29:11 -0500, Bob Weston wrote:

After reading about Linux and how great it is for audio production I
decided to give it a try on one of my systems.
For the record, I have never used Linux before.

I downloaded Mandrake 10, burned the CD's and booted up my P4 based system
with an Midiman Delta 1010 and a built in Intel Soundmax chipset as well.

The install went pretty well and I was surprised that it was pretty much a
no brainer. I was confused by questions concerning domain name and some
other networking question, but I just made up something and it seems to
connect to the net via my cable connection.

The Mandrake installer is (IMO) the best there is.


I played a few games, most of which kind of look like games I played as a
kid back in the 70's.

There are lots more than that. Tried Chromium or Frozen Bubble?


IOW Packman, Asteroids and Space Invaders are alive and well!
It was kinda fun though!

So now I start looking for these applications that are supposed to be so
great.
I found two, Audacity which is supposed to be a sound file editor and
Ardour which claims to be a hard disk recording system.

Which they are and do.


I played with both of them for hours and couldn't get a squeek from either
one.
Ardour complained about something called "Jack".
Sorry but I don't know Jack, although I found him and tried to install him.

Unfortunately Jack has a LOT OF FRIENDS!!

When I tried to download Jack I discovered a new term "dependency" which
as best I can tell is similar to Windows DLL hell.

One program needs another program which needs another library which still
needs 3 more libraries and it just goes on into oblivion.
I spent hours finding all of these things and finally got it all to
install.

Obviously, you didn't read the manual. Urpmi. Set it up, and watch it go.
No dependency problems.


So now I start this jack thing, which really isn't jack but jackd and
seems to require options that are 128 letters and numbers long!
But, I got it going.

As a total newbie? Guess you must be a quick learner.


I start Ardour and get a message saying I have no direct access to the
sound device.

Hmm, that's odd since I can play wave files with a program named XMMMS.

Doesn't work the same way.


I google this message and figure out I must run these programs as rooty,
whomever the hell he is.

*Root*, troll, that's what it's called, and if you claim to have installed
Mandrake, then you'd *better* know what it means. Root, the superuser.


That doesn't work either because I get some message about not being able
to open display 0:0 or something like that.

I google that message and learn about SUX!
I am not kidding, SUX.

This lame trolling-attempt certainly sucks.


So I use SUX and now I can start jackd and ardour but when I try to record
anything I get no life on the meters.
I play with the seemingly endless amount of mixer applications included
with Linux and have no joy.

Why on earth does Linux install 10 different mixers?

It doesn't. You did. When you 'installed' Mandrake, you had the option of
a custom install. There, you can pick what you want installed.


Use them and you will have your answer.

Finally I give up and decide to try Audacity.

Audacity doesn't seem to be a friend of Jack because if I start Jack,
audacity will not run.

Ok, so I just start Audacity and find I can play files, record files but
everything is very slow and stutters on occasion.

Real odd for a system that can easily play back multitudes of tracks will
recording others under Windows XP.

So odd, that I don't believe you.


It's a P4ht 3.0ghz with 2gig of RAM and 6 10k RPM SCSI drives.

I screw with settings some more and after 2 total days of screwing with
the abortion, I give up.
I just do not have the time, nor the patience to spend my days searching
the internet for solutions to problems that many others seem to be having
as well.

Conclusion is I would not recommend this Linux to my worst enemy.
Maybe as a RAIDED file storage system but for creation, tracking, mixing
NO WAY.

The entire platform seems crude and not quite finished and while there is
a wealth of information on the net, I don't have the time to spend
searching to make basic things work.

Perhaps you should have done your homework first. Or perhaps you ought to
give up lying.


FWIW I have never opened a Sonar/Soundforge/Cusbase/Audtion/Protools
manual and yet I can make this stuff work just fine.

Linux has potential, but for now, it's really just a waste of time.
And yes I did manage to stumble on one pro studio using it, but even they
regressed and kept their Mac systems after the initial excitement over
Linux disappeared.

Just my opinion.

Your opinion is an utter lot of ****e. It's a lie from beginning to end.
Don't you trolls ever get tired of repeating this nonsense again and
again? If you *must* inflict this tripe on us, at least make some effort
to be original

--
Kier

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:29:11 -0500, Bob Weston
wrote:

After reading about Linux and how great it is for audio production I
decided to give it a try on one of my systems.
For the record, I have never used Linux before.

Linux has potential, but for now, it's really just a waste of time.
And yes I did manage to stumble on one pro studio using it, but even they
regressed and kept their Mac systems after the initial excitement over
Linux disappeared.

Just my opinion.

Bob Weston

P.S I posted this to the groups where the Linux posts seem to be
originating.

I agree with much of what you have stated. Linux is a work in progress
and as far as multimedia it is very far behind the Apple and Windows
platform. I too thought I had hit the jackpot with so called free
Linux programs instead of ponying up $500.00 for Cubase or similar but
I soon found out that while the program is free, the time needed to
try and make it work is not. Several of my colleagues have also tried
to use Linux in their studios as well and came to similar conclusions
although one guy is still using Linux to archive to a server farm.

It's good to see people trying to challenge Windows with an Open
System, but honestly at this point Linux as a whole is just too rough
around the edges to be considered for production environments without
the use of in house custom applications like the things Pixar is
using.

The off the shelf applications like Audacity and Ardour quite frankly
stink pretty bad compared to Sony, Cubase,Logic Audio, Waves and
others.

Jorge Spano

wrote:


I agree with much of what you have stated. Linux is a work in progress
and as far as multimedia it is very far behind the Apple and Windows
platform. I too thought I had hit the jackpot with so called free
Linux programs instead of ponying up $500.00 for Cubase or similar but

Unfortunately many people confuse good audio with applications that have
fancy buttons.

The same is true for stereo systems with lots of LEDs but speaker that
sound like vibrating cardboard.

Linux, to my ear, has the most powerful, crispest and clearest sound.

I dual boot a Linux/W2K machine...so my comparison is with the same
hardware.

The windows sound is flat, weak, and muddy.

The sound put out by linux drivers is strong, clear and clean.

Clearly, the Linux sound system was written by people who love audio,
and the Windos system by people who just wanted to get something out the
door quickly and fool people into thinking that they had functionality.

But that's the same for everything in Windos.

As far as the Mac...well, Linux is cheaper and better.

[only to rec.audio.pro]

On 2004-12-28, Bob Weston wrote:

After reading about Linux and how great it is for audio production I
decided to give it a try on one of my systems. For the record, I have
never used Linux before.

I downloaded Mandrake 10, burned the CD's and booted up my P4 based
system with an Midiman Delta 1010 and a built in Intel Soundmax
chipset as well. [...]

When I tried to download Jack I discovered a new term "dependency"
which as best I can tell is similar to Windows DLL hell.

One program needs another program which needs another library which
still needs 3 more libraries and it just goes on into oblivion. I
spent hours finding all of these things and finally got it all to
install.

rpm(8) can't resolve dependencies. You need to use Urpmi instead
(or some other apt-get workalike).

I google this message and figure out I must run these programs as
rooty, whomever the hell he is.

That doesn't work either because I get some message about not being
able to open display 0:0 or something like that.

You can make life easier for yourself by typing

xhost local:root

before you become root.

I google that message and learn about SUX! I am not kidding, SUX.

So I use SUX and now I can start jackd and ardour but when I try to
record anything I get no life on the meters. I play with the
seemingly endless amount of mixer applications included with Linux and
have no joy.

Why on earth does Linux install 10 different mixers?

I'm afraid that's a consequence of decentralised development,
especially in the early stages.

Ok, so I just start Audacity and find I can play files, record files
but everything is very slow and stutters on occasion.

Real odd for a system that can easily play back multitudes of tracks
will recording others under Windows XP.

It's a P4ht 3.0ghz with 2gig of RAM and 6 10k RPM SCSI drives.

Mmm. I have very limited experience with Audacity, but I don't
recall having any problems like you describe and that was with a
850 MHz Duron.

I screw with settings some more and after 2 total days of screwing
with the abortion, I give up. I just do not have the time, nor the
patience to spend my days searching the internet for solutions to
problems that many others seem to be having as well.

Conclusion is I would not recommend this Linux to my worst enemy.
Maybe as a RAIDED file storage system but for creation, tracking,
mixing NO WAY.

Perhaps not for you, but not necessarily in general. I've been
using Linux for audio recording for a couple of years, with
Ardour and other programs. Works for me.

The entire platform seems crude and not quite finished

Depends on your expectations. In general, Unix is targeted at
computer-savvy users. Many Unix users do everything from the
command line and rarely use a mouse for anything except clicking
on links in a web browser. Those command line tools are quite
sophisticated and much more powerful than pretty much anything
else. "Crude" isn't doing the system justice.

If you come from the Mac/Windows world, you probably expect
pretty graphical tools with menus that guide you through the
possibilities. Those are indeed a bit harder to come by.

With time, distributors will make audio configuration as easy as
the rest. For the time being, audio is lagging behind in terms
of ease of use because it's a relatively recent development, and
not a commercial priority for general-purpose distributions like
Mandrake.

Projects like PlanetCCRMA are made exactly for people like you ;
they aim at integrating the mess of subsystems that is audio on
Linux into something more approachable.

http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/

--
André Majorel URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/
Todos, todos me miran mal
Salvo los ciegos, es natural

In article flatfish+++ says...

Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system.
Programs that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

They have some decent plugins. Sadly they come in the w32codecs package
which has more than a little irony attached as well as a huge dose of
illegality.

--
Conor

An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan.
-- George Patton

"Moe Green" wrote in message
...
wrote:


I agree with much of what you have stated. Linux is a work in progress
and as far as multimedia it is very far behind the Apple and Windows
platform. I too thought I had hit the jackpot with so called free
Linux programs instead of ponying up $500.00 for Cubase or similar but

Unfortunately many people confuse good audio with applications that have
fancy buttons.

The same is true for stereo systems with lots of LEDs but speaker that
sound like vibrating cardboard.

Linux, to my ear, has the most powerful, crispest and clearest sound.


I find Mandrake sounds so much better than Red Hat. Red Hat has real honky
midrange. And as you say, Windows is just ghetto-blaster quality.

geoff.

Error log for Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:02:11 +0000: Conor caused a Page Fault
at address , details...

In article flatfish+++ says...

Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system. Programs
that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

They have some decent plugins. Sadly they come in the w32codecs package
which has more than a little irony attached as well as a huge dose of
illegality.

You know all about that, don't you? Since you run pirated software.

FYI, mplayer can play wmv & wma without the need for the w32 codecs and
has been for some time. It can also play encrypted DVD's without the need
for libdecss.

You lying FUD-filled peice of ****.

--
rapskat - 23:31:40 up 2 days, 36 min, 4 users, load average: 0.79, 0.52, 0.35
Is that really YOU that is reading this?

In article rapskat says...
Error log for Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:02:11 +0000: Conor caused a Page Fault
at address , details...

In article flatfish+++ says...

Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system. Programs
that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

They have some decent plugins. Sadly they come in the w32codecs package
which has more than a little irony attached as well as a huge dose of
illegality.

You know all about that, don't you? Since you run pirated software.

Proof?

FYI, mplayer can play wmv & wma without the need for the w32 codecs and
has been for some time.

Using what? Legally licenced codecs from Microsoft?

It can also play encrypted DVD's without the need
for libdecss.

How? So you can go into Blockbuster, rent a DVD and it'll play?


--
Conor

An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan.
-- George Patton

flatfish+++ wrote:

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:33:47 -0800, Moe Green wrote:



Unfortunately many people confuse good audio with applications that have
fancy buttons.


You're an idiot Bailo. You wouldn't know good audio if it hit you on top
of the head like a brick falling from the top of the Brill building.



The same is true for stereo systems with lots of LEDs but speaker that
sound like vibrating cardboard.


Like your Sound blaster 24 bit for example?
You know, the card you couldn't make work with Linux?


Linux, to my ear, has the most powerful, crispest and clearest sound.


A CODEC is a CODEC.
The OS has nothing to do with it.
If you hear anything different under Linux compared to Windows or
Macintosh, you have different settings most likely due to your
ineptitude.

I notice that you make this claim over and over again and none of the
Linux weirdos over in comp.os.linux.advocacy ever seem to correct you.
Gee, I wonder why that is?
They sure jump all over you when you mention a fault of Linux.
However they ignore your obvious un-truths when they glorify the diety of
Linux

I dual boot a Linux/W2K machine...so my comparison is with the same
hardware.

The windows sound is flat, weak, and muddy.


You have screwed something up.
No doubt due to your idiocy.



The sound put out by linux drivers is strong, clear and clean.


And if you did a double blind test with a properly set up system you
wouldn't hear a difference.

IOW your **** Sound blaster generates just as much hiss and distortion
under Windows as is does under Linux.


Clearly, the Linux sound system was written by people who love audio,
and the Windos system by people who just wanted to get something out the
door quickly and fool people into thinking that they had functionality.


Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system.
Programs that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

Come on already Bailo, you have no idea what you are talking about.




As far as the Mac...well, Linux is cheaper and better.


See above.

I'm sure the Mac crowd will love this one.


I do know one thing... the Mac that I bought earilier this year is
great. Even tho I've downloaded updates, I've yet to get any viruses,
spyware, or malware while running OS X. Wife kicked me off her Mac, so
I have to go back to using this old machine that uses windows 98. :-(
But I have yet to have the mac crash or have anything bad happen to it.
The sound is ok, but with my hearing going bad I can't tell the
difference between good sound and muddy sound. I just have to have it
turned up loud is all.

"GreyCloud" wrote in post
on 12/29/04 12:05 AM:

I do know one thing... the Mac that I bought earilier this year is
great. Even tho I've downloaded updates, I've yet to get any viruses,
spyware, or malware while running OS X. Wife kicked me off her Mac, so
I have to go back to using this old machine that uses windows 98. :-(
But I have yet to have the mac crash or have anything bad happen to it.
The sound is ok, but with my hearing going bad I can't tell the
difference between good sound and muddy sound. I just have to have it
turned up loud is all.

For you, if you had a choice of a brand new super fast PC or a brand new
iMac, which would allow you to do more? As measured by how much you could
comfortably do - which would be the more powerful machine ... I am assuming
you are relatively familiar with both OS's and the software you would be
using.


--
Picture of a tuna soda: http://snipurl.com/bid1
Feel free to ask for the recipe.

Error log for Wed, 29 Dec 2004 04:48:25 +0000: Conor caused a Page Fault
at address , details...

In article rapskat says...
Error log for Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:02:11 +0000: Conor caused a Page
Fault at address ,
details...

In article flatfish+++ says...

Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system. Programs
that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

They have some decent plugins. Sadly they come in the w32codecs
package which has more than a little irony attached as well as a huge
dose of illegality.

You know all about that, don't you? Since you run pirated software.

Proof?

Prove you don't.

FYI, mplayer can play wmv & wma without the need for the w32 codecs and
has been for some time.

Using what? Legally licenced codecs from Microsoft?

No idiot, using NATIVE codecs.

It can also play encrypted DVD's without the need for libdecss.

How? So you can go into Blockbuster, rent a DVD and it'll play?

Yes, same as Windows software.

As I said, you are a lying FUDding peice of **** with no clue WTF you are
talking about.

--
rapskat - 02:20:13 up 2 days, 3:25, 4 users, load average: 0.05, 0.30, 0.46
Don't tell any big lies today. Small ones can be just as effective.

En/na Bob Weston ha escrit:

I downloaded Mandrake 10, burned the CD's and booted up my P4 based system
with an Midiman Delta 1010 and a built in Intel Soundmax chipset as well.

When I tried to download Jack I discovered a new term "dependency" which
as best I can tell is similar to Windows DLL hell.

if you are on mandrake there's no need to worry for dependencies.
urpmi is a tool that will install the desired app with all it's
dependencies.
all you have to do is:

urpmi jack

for installing jack...
but first you have to configure your package sources.

go to:
http://urpmi-addmedia.org/

and follow instructions.

I started reading this thread hoping there would be some information
that might help me decide whether to try Linux for my next computer.

I guess I was hoping for an intelligent discussion of pros and cons.

I guess I know less than when I started.


Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

Unfortunately, like Kadaitcha said, intelligent discussion is not the strong
suit of C.O.L.A. You'd have better luck in A.O.L. If you can handle browsing
around the troll messages and the inane responses to them, you will find
some quite useful info about the strengths and weaknesses of Linux, much of
which was posted in the past 7 days. Good luck to you.

R.

"Willie K.Yee, M.D." wrote in message
...
I started reading this thread hoping there would be some information
that might help me decide whether to try Linux for my next computer.

I guess I was hoping for an intelligent discussion of pros and cons.

I guess I know less than when I started.


Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band
http://www.bigbluebigband.org

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Conor

wrote
on Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:02:11 -0000
:
In article flatfish+++ says...

Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system.
Programs that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

They have some decent plugins. Sadly they come in the w32codecs package
which has more than a little irony attached as well as a huge dose of
illegality.


The Gentoo package of win32codecs was most recently dated 20040916,
20040926, 20041023, or 20041219, depending on which files/datestamp
one looks at, comes with an "as-is" license.

0fd27aced9e2658485793ae23e40dd53 /usr/portage/licenses/as-is

--8--8--
This is a generic place holder for a class of licenses that boil down to do
no guarantees and all you get is what you have. The language is usually
similar to:

Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its
documentation for any purpose and without fee is hereby granted, provided
that the above copyright notice appears in all copies and that both the
copyright notice and this permission notice appear in supporting
documentation, and that the some name not be used in advertising or
publicity pertaining to distribution of the software without specific,
written prior permission. We makes no representations about the
suitability this software for any purpose. It is provided "as is"
without express or implied warranty.


You will need to check the license that came with the software for the exact
specifics. Generally you are free to do most anything you want with "as is"
software but you should not take this license as legal advice.

Note: Most all license have an "as is" clause. For our purposes this does
not make all software in this category. This category is for software with
very little restrictions.

The information in this license about licenses is presented "as is". :-P
--8--8--

I can't speak for other distros. (How does one "do a guarantee" anyway?
Take it to a hairdresser? Write it up? Undress it (with its consent)
and try to create children?)

--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.

"Willie K.Yee, M.D." wrote in message
...
I started reading this thread hoping there would be some information
that might help me decide whether to try Linux for my next computer.

I guess I was hoping for an intelligent discussion of pros and cons.

I guess I know less than when I started.


I think you will be happier if you wait until ardour is out of beta.

http://ardour.org/status.html

I have a linux box that runs some soft-synths and Csound. For synthesis, if
you want to get to the nitty gritty of programming synthesis, it's a lot
better than the BS 'pretty knob' plug-in stuff for windows and mac. But I
still use it in conjunction with a Kurzweil rack sampler - the linux box is
for making samples only. Sometimes I use it as a seperate MIDI sequencer
running Jazz++.

It seems like it would work fine to edit and burn a final mix. If you want a
tracking DAW, though, I'd say wait for Ardour to get out of beta.

jb

On 2004-12-28, Bob Weston wrote:

After reading about Linux and how great it is for audio production I
decided to give it a try on one of my systems.
For the record, I have never used Linux before.

Thanks for your review. I'd really like to see an equivalent review by
someone who has used Linux for other purposes for at least six or seven
years, who is experienced in audio production as well, who has then
decided to try Linux for audio.

You are trying to fast-track several different learning curves all at
once. I realize you had no other choice, but I wonder how your
experience had gone, had you already been familiar with Linux in
general, had already had a working system with which you had resolved
all installation issues and had already developed the skill set required
of an end user of Linux or any other Unix OS.

I wish your evaluation had started AFTER Jack and ALSA were already
configured and tuned for your system. You hit the learning curve on
several different things at once, which is black-diamond difficulty by
ANYONE's standards, tried to go it alone without any training, and got
stuck, and ended up giving an evaluation based on your learning
experience, which you aborted, and not on the quality of the output of
the tools, which you never got far enough to really do.

It took me several years of daily immersion, in a do-or-die environment,
to become strident using Linux (or Solaris, or Digital Unix). If I were
to suggest Linux as being "ready" for a task, I'd be speaking in terms
of the task, not configuration of the system to make it ready for that
task. That's not always easy, especially if you don't have experience.

I read your review from the point of view that "it should be" easy, and
I don't disagree. I also read in your review that you already have
several titles of digital audio software, each costing a fortune, each
of which you had installed on a system that you likely did not have to
install the entire OS from scratch, and that you already knew how to
use. I don't think this makes for a reasonable basis of comparison.
How many years did you spend using Windows and maybe DOS before today?
How many years did you spend using Linux? Do you think this could have
something to do with your end-user experience? Also, how much did
Sonar and Cubase cost you? How much did Rosegarden and Ardour cost?

Perhaps other people have considerations other than "ease of use for a
total beginner starting cold from a fresh OS install."

Obviously you were being harsh, as it appears that someone had
represented to you that Linux audio was ready to take over and put
Steinberg and Digi out of business. Or something like that. And if
that is the case, you were done a serious disservice. But the bottom
line of your review is "it SUX", and it certainly must, from where you
sit.

In article rapskat says...
Error log for Wed, 29 Dec 2004 04:48:25 +0000: Conor caused a Page Fault
at address , details...

In article rapskat says...
Error log for Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:02:11 +0000: Conor caused a Page
Fault at address ,
details...

In article flatfish+++ says...

Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system. Programs
that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

They have some decent plugins. Sadly they come in the w32codecs
package which has more than a little irony attached as well as a huge
dose of illegality.

You know all about that, don't you? Since you run pirated software.

Proof?

Prove you don't.

I don't need to. Under UK law its the accuser who has to provide proof.

FYI, mplayer can play wmv & wma without the need for the w32 codecs and
has been for some time.

Using what? Legally licenced codecs from Microsoft?

No idiot, using NATIVE codecs.

That all have the blesing of Microsoft. Ever heard of the word patent?
Thought not.

It can also play encrypted DVD's without the need for libdecss.

How? So you can go into Blockbuster, rent a DVD and it'll play?

Yes, same as Windows software.

How? With your oh so legal libdvdcss?



--
Conor

An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan.
-- George Patton

In article Willie K.Yee, M.D. says...
I started reading this thread hoping there would be some information
that might help me decide whether to try Linux for my next computer.

I guess I was hoping for an intelligent discussion of pros and cons.

Easy solution.

Download Knoppix Live CD or SuSE LiveEval CD. Personally I'd go the SuSE
route as the program names will be more meaningful to you. Stick it in
computer, boot off CD.

My views:

Linux:
Easy to install 99% of the time. You get the odd glitch but its easily
solved. Usually its APIC (not ACPI) or a graphics problem with the
installer. Both solved with an additional entry to the installer
options.
Works OK provided you use supported hardware. Is a bitch for a newbie to
get unsupported hardware running. If you want 3D graphics, go nVIDIA.
Good for internet, office, general stuff. Crap for games as in latest 3D
shooters although thats slowly improving.
Forces you to "do stuff properly", i.e not running as administrator.
Installing software can be a bit of a minefield depending in the distro
and the method used. Apt-get/URPMI being the easiest. RPM looks easiest
at first until you then realise you're speding alot of time in
"dependency hell".
You can get MS Office running fairly easily although OpenOffice is OK
for the most part.

YOU NEED BROADBAND. Seriously. Once you start installing software you've
downloaded, you'll need the speed for the extra packages that are
sometimes required.

Downside...
If you're a gamer then things are a bit thin on the ground - dualboot
with Windows.
Most of the supported hardware is of the decent quality variety although
if you know what chipset a particular item uses, that helps.
You really need broadband.
I.E only websites, such as some online banking, are a problem
Can be a PITA trying to install some software.

--
Conor

An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan.
-- George Patton

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:25:53 -0500, jorge_spano wrote:

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:29:11 -0500, Bob Weston
wrote:

After reading about Linux and how great it is for audio production I
decided to give it a try on one of my systems.
For the record, I have never used Linux before.

Linux has potential, but for now, it's really just a waste of time.
And yes I did manage to stumble on one pro studio using it, but even they
regressed and kept their Mac systems after the initial excitement over
Linux disappeared.

Just my opinion.

Bob Weston

P.S I posted this to the groups where the Linux posts seem to be
originating.

I agree with much of what you have stated. Linux is a work in progress
and as far as multimedia it is very far behind the Apple and Windows
platform. I too thought I had hit the jackpot with so called free
Linux programs instead of ponying up $500.00 for Cubase or similar but
I soon found out that while the program is free, the time needed to
try and make it work is not. Several of my colleagues have also tried
to use Linux in their studios as well and came to similar conclusions
although one guy is still using Linux to archive to a server farm.

It's good to see people trying to challenge Windows with an Open
System, but honestly at this point Linux as a whole is just too rough
around the edges to be considered for production environments without
the use of in house custom applications like the things Pixar is
using.

The off the shelf applications like Audacity and Ardour quite frankly
stink pretty bad compared to Sony, Cubase,Logic Audio, Waves and
others.

Jorge Spano


Come on, try harder, troll.
The responding to yourself thing is adorable.
"Jorge Spano"? Give me a break. Two post signed with full names...Try
harder, dip****.

Jorge is Greek/Spanish and Spano is Italian.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:02:11 +0000, Conor wrote:

In article flatfish+++ says...

Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system.
Programs that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

They have some decent plugins. Sadly they come in the w32codecs package
which has more than a little irony attached as well as a huge dose of
illegality.

How is it illegal, exactly?
Please, state the page number of the law book you aren't reading.

In article Joe says...
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:02:11 +0000, Conor wrote:

In article flatfish+++ says...

Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system.
Programs that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

They have some decent plugins. Sadly they come in the w32codecs package
which has more than a little irony attached as well as a huge dose of
illegality.

How is it illegal, exactly?

Take your pick...DMCA, EUCD, patent infringement.


--
Conor

An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan.
-- George Patton

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2004-12-30, Conor wrote:
In article Joe says...
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:02:11 +0000, Conor wrote:

In article flatfish+++ says...

Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system.
Programs that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

They have some decent plugins. Sadly they come in the w32codecs package
which has more than a little irony attached as well as a huge dose of
illegality.

How is it illegal, exactly?

Take your pick...DMCA, EUCD, patent infringement.

DMCA and patent infringement aren't applicable unless it would be
a violation to use the original software under it's native environment.
Copyright might be an issue but EULA's are not well established legally and
courts likely would consider Linux use implicitly authorized by the current
patern of codec licensing.


--

|||
/ | \

Error log for Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:20:44 +0000: Conor caused a Page Fault
at address , details...

In article rapskat says...
Error log for Wed, 29 Dec 2004 04:48:25 +0000: Conor caused a Page
Fault at address ,
details...

In article rapskat says...
Error log for Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:02:11 +0000: Conor caused a Page
Fault at address ,
details...

In article flatfish+++ says...

Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system.
Programs that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

They have some decent plugins. Sadly they come in the w32codecs
package which has more than a little irony attached as well as a
huge dose of illegality.

You know all about that, don't you? Since you run pirated software.

Proof?

Prove you don't.

I don't need to. Under UK law its the accuser who has to provide proof.

Sounds like you are pretty familiar with that. Been accused of alot of
things much?

All of my software is 100% legal and legit, can you say the same? Are you
willing to submit your systems to an audit right now?

--
rapskat - 19:03:14 up 3 days, 20:08, 2 users, load average: 0.13, 0.30, 0.48
It is a wise father that knows his own child.
-- William Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice"

rapskat wrote:
Error log for Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:20:44 +0000: Conor caused a Page
Fault
at address , details...

In article rapskat says...
Error log for Wed, 29 Dec 2004 04:48:25 +0000: Conor caused a
Page
Fault at address ,
details...

In article rapskat says...
Error log for Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:02:11 +0000: Conor caused a
Page
Fault at address
,
details...

In article flatfish+++ says...

Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system.
Programs that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

They have some decent plugins. Sadly they come in the
w32codecs
package which has more than a little irony attached as well
as a
huge dose of illegality.

You know all about that, don't you? Since you run pirated
software.

Proof?

Prove you don't.

I don't need to. Under UK law its the accuser who has to provide
proof.

Sounds like you are pretty familiar with that.

Anyone in the USA or the UK should know that it's "innocent until
proven guilty." That's one of the cornerstones of our societies.

Been accused of alot of things much?

Been accused of ignorance and stupidity much?

All of my software is 100% legal and legit,

You neglected to post proof of that. I'm sure that's just an oversight
on your part that you'll correct in short order.

can you say the same? Are you
willing to submit your systems to an audit right now?

Are you willing to let random people on Usenet "audit" your systems?
LOL!!!

Error log for Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:20:42 -0800: Edwin caused a Page Fault
at address .com,
details...

Sounds like you are pretty familiar with that.

Anyone in the USA or the UK should know that it's "innocent until proven
guilty." That's one of the cornerstones of our societies.

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Man, it's nice to see that naivity is not dead.

Been accused of alot of things much?

Been accused of ignorance and stupidity much?

Only by ignorant and stupid people.


All of my software is 100% legal and legit,

You neglected to post proof of that. I'm sure that's just an oversight
on your part that you'll correct in short order.

Idiot, I use OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE. You want proof, it's available freely
online, source and all. Want a list of packages currently installed on my
system?

can you say the same? Are you
willing to submit your systems to an audit right now?

Are you willing to let random people on Usenet "audit" your systems?
LOL!!!

Sure, they do it all the time. Which is why my platform is safe and
malware free. Can you say the same?

--
rapskat - 19:57:12 up 3 days, 21:02, 3 users, load average: 0.34, 0.33, 0.53
You'll never be the man your mother was!

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:11:48 -0500, rapskat wrote:

I don't need to. Under UK law its the accuser who has to provide proof.

Sounds like you are pretty familiar with that. Been accused of alot of
things much?

This fact is well-known ever since the McLibel case. The Greenpeace
nuts distributed flyers, prompting McDonald's to sue for libel, meaning
the Greenpeace guys had to prove it was all true. In the United States,
McDonald's would only have had to prove damages and Greenpeace wouldn't
have been able to do much of anything, unless McDonald's chose to prove
it was false.


--
FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE i386
10:25AM up 38 days, 15:47, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00

In comp.os.linux.advocacy, rapskat

wrote
on Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:11:48 -0500
:
Error log for Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:20:44 +0000: Conor caused a Page Fault
at address , details...

In article rapskat says...
Error log for Wed, 29 Dec 2004 04:48:25 +0000: Conor caused a Page
Fault at address ,
details...

In article rapskat says...
Error log for Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:02:11 +0000: Conor caused a Page
Fault at address ,
details...

In article flatfish+++ says...

Yea sure.
Maybe they can get around to writing a decent help system.
Programs that actually work?
Some decent plug-ins?

They have some decent plugins. Sadly they come in the w32codecs
package which has more than a little irony attached as well as a
huge dose of illegality.

You know all about that, don't you? Since you run pirated software.

Proof?

Prove you don't.

I don't need to. Under UK law its the accuser who has to provide proof.

Sounds like you are pretty familiar with that. Been accused of alot of
things much?

All of my software is 100% legal and legit, can you say the same? Are you
willing to submit your systems to an audit right now?


Software patents are going to make things *real* interesting
in this space, unfortunately.

Here's what little I know about the situation.

Trade Secret: I'm not going to tell you.
Copyright: I'm going to tell you, but if you use it, all credit
will have to go back to me for the original idea,
and I can accuse you of stealing that idea.
Truly independent development, however, is fine.
Patent: I'm going to tell everyone, but, if you use it, or
derive from it, or even independently generate
the idea yourself, assuming that said independent
generation wasn't prior to my discovery/development
of this idea, I can accuse you of patent infringement.

Or something like that. :-) There's also different lifetimes.
Copyright is death + 70 years, if I'm not mistaken. Patents
last all of 17, if that (a bit long for an industry which
gets itself replaced every 3 years or so at the hardware
level!). Trade secrets might last forever.

I should note that there are currently about 6 million patents.
I don't know how many are active -- probably a few tens of
thousands -- or how many are even relevant. Some of them
are quite interesting, such as the (fortunately now-expired)
claim on how to draw an XOR'ed cursor on a raster.

SCO, AIUI, is making claims using copyright law. Wild-assed, silly,
and ultimately false claims. However, suppose Linux is using
something to which Microsoft owns a patent? Prior art might
save Linux (if one can find it in this new electronic world, where
one can change 2005 to 1995 with but a few keystrokes), but if
there's no prior art, someone's going to be very unhappy, and
it probably won't be Microsoft. :-/

And Linux is at a disadvantage, for Microsoft can readily
call up its source code, pore over it with a fine-toothed
comb (and a squad of legal eagles), and then throw a suit
on a judge's desk next Tuesday, with lots of details on
alleged patent violations. (The judge, of course, would
have to ultimately decide the truth of the allegations,
after a long, protracted discovery process, trial, etc.)

Linus, were he willing (you'd have to ask him! :-) ),
or any other FOSS advocate, would first have to find some
Microsoft source code to analyze. There might be a Russian
or two willing to show him something that purports to be
Microsoft source code but there's no way to know, short of
going to Redmond and asking the receptionist some pointed
questions and ultimately negotiating with ... somebody.
I have no idea who. Meanwhile, furious scribbling will
be going on somewhere in a back room to eradicate the
violation.

Whoops. No violation found in the source code, waste of time
on the FOSS advocate's part.

I suppose one could try to go through old backup CD's, tapes,
or what not, but this is beginning to smell like a fishing
expedition instead of anything useful, though the most
current version of source code ideally would be available
for persual, especially for technical support looking for
potential bugs to formulate a response to the frustrated
customers calling in.

The flip side of this, of course, is the "million eye"
theory, which might actually work, though it's hard to tell
since an awful lot of people are unwilling to take credit
-- either because they're naturally modest ("aw shucks,
t'warn't nothing; anybody who knows a lambda closure from
a semaphore derivative could've done it") or because they
don't want to face the repercussions from nasty types
should the bug fix itself contain a bug. FOSS, therefore, probably
contains a number of contributions that are (a) obvious, and (b)
may never be properly credited to the individuals doing them.

No way for me to know -- but with Linux, the tear.c bug of
yesterdecade was patched within hours of its emergence.
Microsoft took about six weeks.

Welcome to 2005: the Year of the Weird. ;-)

--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:29:11 -0500, Bob Weston wrote:

After reading about Linux and how great it is for audio production I
decided to give it a try on one of my systems.
For the record, I have never used Linux before.

Also you have never posted to usenet before aside from three anti-linux
posts in just over 24 hours.

http://tinyurl.com/6x67u

Draw your own conclusions.

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:25:53 -0500, jorge_spano wrote:


I agree with much of what you have stated. Linux is a work in progress
and as far as multimedia it is very far behind the Apple and Windows
platform. I too thought I had hit the jackpot with so called free
Linux programs instead of ponying up $500.00 for Cubase or similar but
I soon found out that while the program is free, the time needed to
try and make it work is not. Several of my colleagues have also tried
to use Linux in their studios as well and came to similar conclusions
although one guy is still using Linux to archive to a server farm.

Funny that you have no posting history too as well as the OP.

Odd that you post to agree with an obvious troll but never posted any
queries from when you claim to have tried Linux.

"steve" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:25:53 -0500, jorge_spano wrote:


I agree with much of what you have stated. Linux is a work in progress
and as far as multimedia it is very far behind the Apple and Windows
platform. I too thought I had hit the jackpot with so called free
Linux programs instead of ponying up $500.00 for Cubase or similar but
I soon found out that while the program is free, the time needed to
try and make it work is not. Several of my colleagues have also tried
to use Linux in their studios as well and came to similar conclusions
although one guy is still using Linux to archive to a server farm.

Funny that you have no posting history too as well as the OP.

Odd that you post to agree with an obvious troll but never posted any
queries from when you claim to have tried Linux.

Could you guys take this off rec.audio.pro? Please. I suppose it's relevant,
but it isn't our thread. We don't want your troll.

jb

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 12:48:28 -0500, reddred wrote:


"steve" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:25:53 -0500, jorge_spano wrote:


I agree with much of what you have stated. Linux is a work in progress
and as far as multimedia it is very far behind the Apple and Windows
platform. I too thought I had hit the jackpot with so called free
Linux programs instead of ponying up $500.00 for Cubase or similar but
I soon found out that while the program is free, the time needed to
try and make it work is not. Several of my colleagues have also tried
to use Linux in their studios as well and came to similar conclusions
although one guy is still using Linux to archive to a server farm.

Funny that you have no posting history too as well as the OP.

Odd that you post to agree with an obvious troll but never posted any
queries from when you claim to have tried Linux.

Could you guys take this off rec.audio.pro? Please. I suppose it's relevant,
but it isn't our thread. We don't want your troll.


We don't want him either.

--
Kier

On 2004-12-30, Conor wrote:

No idiot, using NATIVE codecs.

That all have the blesing of Microsoft. Ever heard of the word patent?
Thought not.

I wasn't aware of a specific audio/video codec that was covered directly
by a US patent.

It can also play encrypted DVD's without the need for libdecss.

How? So you can go into Blockbuster, rent a DVD and it'll play?

Yes, same as Windows software.

How? With your oh so legal libdvdcss?

Good gray area. My opinion is that my right to view content on media
I've paid for, TOTALLY eclipses any controversy related to the manner
in which I do so. If it's reasonable to pursue legal action against
someone for making a player, it completely stops being reasonable when
it comes between me playing the content. That's just my opinion, of
course, and you don't have to accept it, unless you want to try to make
a legal impediment for me playing discs I own. If you did want to raise
that stink, I'm sure I'd prevail. My right to watch the content in the
privacy of my home pretty much trumps any concern you could possibly
have.