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#1
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whats the stupidest thing you have heard in the audiophool marketplace
I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year
old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough] anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt in the uk. he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains cords to amps had an effect. likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the application of little tin foil triangles. i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of england. pretty weird eh? can you do better than that? |
#2
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sorry it was not a volume control, it was a knob, jeez this wine is
good On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:10:31 +1300, bill ramsay wrote: I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough] anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt in the uk. he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains cords to amps had an effect. likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the application of little tin foil triangles. i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of england. pretty weird eh? can you do better than that? |
#3
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"bill ramsay" I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough] anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt in the uk. he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains cords to amps had an effect. likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the application of little tin foil triangles. i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of england. pretty weird eh? can you do better than that? ** There was this completely mad woman who wrote articles for "The Absolute Sound" magazine in the late 1970s - sorry, forget her name - she strongly recommended that any TV set in the house be adjusted so that it was not tuned in to any station nor plugged into any power outlet. Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system. ........ Phil |
#4
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bill ramsay wrote in
: sorry it was not a volume control, it was a knob, jeez this wine is good Had myself some Crown Royal last night myself. (:) A look through the Mapleshade catalog will yield all sorts of weirdness. r On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:10:31 +1300, bill ramsay wrote: I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough] anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt in the uk. he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains cords to amps had an effect. likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the application of little tin foil triangles. i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of england. pretty weird eh? can you do better than that? -- Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes. |
#6
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bill ramsay wrote:
I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough] anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt in the uk. he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains cords to amps had an effect. likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the application of little tin foil triangles. i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of england. pretty weird eh? can you do better than that? Oxygen free silver wire power cords.... One thing I did see in a stereo shop was patch cords that had litz wire (individual enamel insulated strands, thich strands for the bass, thin for the treble, and intermediate for the mids of course). Totally stupid. Bass won't mind swimming thru many thin stands vs a few thick strands. Skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies for anyone other than the phone company. |
#7
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"Steve O'Neill" ** Enid Lumley is correct. .............. Phil |
#8
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Robert Casey wrote in message ...
bill ramsay wrote: I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough] anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt in the uk. he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains cords to amps had an effect. likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the application of little tin foil triangles. i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of england. pretty weird eh? can you do better than that? Oxygen free silver wire power cords.... My question,whenever I see a "super-duper" power cord,or plug,or outlet is.."Well,what about the 100+ miles of wire between your outlet,and the power plant? Not to mention the 4-5 big transformers it went through. I say to heck with all that,just use a noise filter,and a good surge protector,make sure everything is grounded properly,and leave it at that. Maybe a power conditioner/ups,if you are really concerned.. Short of that,theres not much you can do about the noisy,spikey power that you get on those powerlines.. I'd think that replacing a plug,an a few feet of those many,many miles wouldn't make much of a difference,if any at all..Definatly not worth the $500 or more it could cost,IMHO.I've seen "high end: power cords for as much as $800!!,matching "high end" plugs for as much as $300!.Thats plain nuts of you ask me,unless they are made of Kryptonite,with that cool green glow. ;-) One thing I did see in a stereo shop was patch cords that had litz wire (individual enamel insulated strands, thich strands for the bass, thin for the treble, and intermediate for the mids of course). Totally stupid. Bass won't mind swimming thru many thin stands vs a few thick strands. Skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies for anyone other than the phone company. I *have* noticed a difference between speaker cable,and interconnects. I used to use 14AWG Zip-cord for speaker wire,now I have some "decent" (Rockford Fosgate)OFC 15AWG wire,and I like it *alot* more.I did notice clearer treble,and tighter,more controlled bass,right away,and I was very skeptical and didn't expect to hear anything!I was shocked,and pleased!I've had similar experiences with interconnects.I think a system can benefit from using better wire/cables,but I'm sure there's a point of no returns.Spending a few bucks on cables,etc can be beneficial! Just don't go take out a second mortgage on the house to do it. ;-) I've seen alot of "overboard" Audiophool stuff in the backs of audio magazines,and stuff. *some* of it can actually be helpful,some of it I think was written by people who have been sniffing too many green felt pens. ;-) |
#9
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*** Some people spend more on their speaker cables than I have on my
amplifier or perhaps entire system . . . And yet if you ever disassemble a speaker, there is usually chicken**** wiring therein. If you want to continue to "principle" (or folly perhaps) then it seems to me that speakers and their crossovers should be modified similarly for "maximum benefit" (whatever that may be). Something to ponder briefly. Jon My question,whenever I see a "super-duper" power cord,or plug,or outlet is.."Well,what about the 100+ miles of wire between your outlet,and the power plant? Not to mention the 4-5 big transformers it went through. I say to heck with all that,just use a noise filter,and a good surge protector,make sure everything is grounded properly,and leave it at that. Maybe a power conditioner/ups,if you are really concerned.. Short of that,theres not much you can do about the noisy,spikey power that you get on those powerlines.. I'd think that replacing a plug,an a few feet of those many,many miles wouldn't make much of a difference,if any at all..Definatly not worth the $500 or more it could cost,IMHO.I've seen "high end: power cords for as much as $800!!,matching "high end" plugs for as much as $300!.Thats plain nuts of you ask me,unless they are made of Kryptonite,with that cool green glow. ;-) One thing I did see in a stereo shop was patch cords that had litz wire (individual enamel insulated strands, thich strands for the bass, thin for the treble, and intermediate for the mids of course). Totally stupid. Bass won't mind swimming thru many thin stands vs a few thick strands. Skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies for anyone other than the phone company. I *have* noticed a difference between speaker cable,and interconnects. I used to use 14AWG Zip-cord for speaker wire,now I have some "decent" (Rockford Fosgate)OFC 15AWG wire,and I like it *alot* more.I did notice clearer treble,and tighter,more controlled bass,right away,and I was very skeptical and didn't expect to hear anything!I was shocked,and pleased!I've had similar experiences with interconnects.I think a system can benefit from using better wire/cables,but I'm sure there's a point of no returns.Spending a few bucks on cables,etc can be beneficial! Just don't go take out a second mortgage on the house to do it. ;-) I've seen alot of "overboard" Audiophool stuff in the backs of audio magazines,and stuff. *some* of it can actually be helpful,some of it I think was written by people who have been sniffing too many green felt pens. ;-) |
#10
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The speakers one finds in systems with megabuck speaker cables do not generally have chicken**** wiring in them (there
are exceptions, though). But many affordable speakers can indeed be greatly improved by rewiring with quality wire and quality xover parts like polyprop caps & lower dcr inductors, and by soldering the wires directly to the drivers, eliminating loose and/or corroded quick disconnects which can add noise and distortion to the sound. The benefits, as Nothing40 noted, include "clearer treble, and tighter, more controlled bass". Phread "Jon Yaeger" wrote in message ... *** Some people spend more on their speaker cables than I have on my amplifier or perhaps entire system . . . And yet if you ever disassemble a speaker, there is usually chicken**** wiring therein. If you want to continue to "principle" (or folly perhaps) then it seems to me that speakers and their crossovers should be modified similarly for "maximum benefit" (whatever that may be). Something to ponder briefly. Jon My question,whenever I see a "super-duper" power cord,or plug,or outlet is.."Well,what about the 100+ miles of wire between your outlet,and the power plant? Not to mention the 4-5 big transformers it went through. I say to heck with all that,just use a noise filter,and a good surge protector,make sure everything is grounded properly,and leave it at that. Maybe a power conditioner/ups,if you are really concerned.. Short of that,theres not much you can do about the noisy,spikey power that you get on those powerlines.. I'd think that replacing a plug,an a few feet of those many,many miles wouldn't make much of a difference,if any at all..Definatly not worth the $500 or more it could cost,IMHO.I've seen "high end: power cords for as much as $800!!,matching "high end" plugs for as much as $300!.Thats plain nuts of you ask me,unless they are made of Kryptonite,with that cool green glow. ;-) One thing I did see in a stereo shop was patch cords that had litz wire (individual enamel insulated strands, thich strands for the bass, thin for the treble, and intermediate for the mids of course). Totally stupid. Bass won't mind swimming thru many thin stands vs a few thick strands. Skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies for anyone other than the phone company. I *have* noticed a difference between speaker cable,and interconnects. I used to use 14AWG Zip-cord for speaker wire,now I have some "decent" (Rockford Fosgate)OFC 15AWG wire,and I like it *alot* more.I did notice clearer treble,and tighter,more controlled bass,right away,and I was very skeptical and didn't expect to hear anything!I was shocked,and pleased!I've had similar experiences with interconnects.I think a system can benefit from using better wire/cables,but I'm sure there's a point of no returns.Spending a few bucks on cables,etc can be beneficial! Just don't go take out a second mortgage on the house to do it. ;-) I've seen alot of "overboard" Audiophool stuff in the backs of audio magazines,and stuff. *some* of it can actually be helpful,some of it I think was written by people who have been sniffing too many green felt pens. ;-) |
#11
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"Phread" wrote in message ... The speakers one finds in systems with megabuck speaker cables do not generally have chicken**** wiring in them (there are exceptions, though). But many affordable speakers can indeed be greatly improved by rewiring with quality wire and quality xover parts like polyprop caps & lower dcr inductors, and by soldering the wires directly to the drivers, eliminating loose and/or corroded quick disconnects which can add noise and distortion to the sound. The benefits, as Nothing40 noted, include "clearer treble, and tighter, more controlled bass". Phread I agree with the above post, the connections inside speakers are generally not too good, and as stated, the crossover components are not the best quality. But if you want to keep your system sounding consistantly good, take your system cable connections apart about every six months and clean the ends with Deoxit or tweek, tighten everything back up, and you'll be AMAZED how much better it sounds. I bet that is why new "super" speaker cable or "outofthisworld" interconnects sound better - you're just cleaning out the grundge when you plug the new stuff in. I still maintain there is NO difference between the very, very, very best, most expensive speaker wire and plain ol' 14 gauge zip cord. I would love to have a cable showdown, once and for all, and expose those cable thieves for what they are - crooks. Directional interconnects -- oh c'mon!! What total bulls**t! Skin effect? That's what you do to a rich audioidiot. You skin 'im! /regards, Tom |
#12
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David R Brooks wrote:
I recently had the opportunity to pull open a pair of big-name "quality" speakers, that were damaged in a fire, & written off. The wiring was awful, and the so-called "crossover" consisted of a pair of tiny non-polar electrolytics in series with the tweeter. That was all. The bass unit was connected straight across the lines. Actually, several very high-quality speakers run the woofers full-range with no crossover, and just have a cap to roll off the low frequencies to the tweeter. Reference 3A MM DaCapo for one, my beloved Triangle Titus for another. IF the drivers have the proper frequency response, etc., the designer can do this and end up with very good sound and an easy-to-drive speaker (good for low power tube amps, etc.). Reference 3A and Triangle manufacture their drivers, so can design this in ... The Titus actually has a 2nd-order filter (added inductor across the tweeter). I just rebuilt mine with premium parts, to good improvement in sound. With the usual markup, however, the Triangles would have cost probably ~$1000/pair instead of $600/pair with the best components in the filter ... |
#13
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"t.hoehler" wrote:
Directional interconnects -- oh c'mon!! What total bulls**t! If there is shielding, in some cases it is supposed to be connected at only one end. I am not an expert nor claim to know-all, but I believe this has solid 'grounding' (no pun intended) in established electronics practice. I definitely hear a difference in ICs (Mapleshade ribbons vs. Silver wire designs, for instance). Whether the difference is just due to the inherent electrical interactions between IC designs and the source/amplifier circuitry, I cannot say. Or whether it's the 'special chemical metallurgical treatment' or whatever ... |
#14
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Enid Lumley was her name.....
"Phil Allison" wrote in message ... "bill ramsay" I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough] anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt in the uk. he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains cords to amps had an effect. likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the application of little tin foil triangles. i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of england. pretty weird eh? can you do better than that? ** There was this completely mad woman who wrote articles for "The Absolute Sound" magazine in the late 1970s - sorry, forget her name - she strongly recommended that any TV set in the house be adjusted so that it was not tuned in to any station nor plugged into any power outlet. Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system. ........ Phil |
#15
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"despicable" Enid Lumley was her name..... ** I know ..... I know already ! ( said in atrocious fake Jewish accent) ......... Phil |
#16
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despicable wrote:
Enid Lumley was her name..... Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system. ........ Phil My kind of gal. |
#17
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Jon Yaeger wrote in message ...
*** Some people spend more on their speaker cables than I have on my amplifier or perhaps entire system . . . And yet if you ever disassemble a speaker, there is usually chicken**** wiring therein. If you want to continue to "principle" (or folly perhaps) then it seems to me that speakers and their crossovers should be modified similarly for "maximum benefit" (whatever that may be). Something to ponder briefly. Jon I completely agree! I've taken apart a few sets of speakers to be horrified by the cheap 20AWG wire inside! Replacing that also helps. One of my own pet-peeves is in most "consumer" SS amps.They use like 20awg wire from the power transformer to the circuit boards,from the boards to the speaker terminals,etc,etc. Not to mention those tiny "staple" jumper wires on the boards. I've replaced the tiny power wires in a few amps,and noticed a bit of a difference..Worth the hour of effort with a soldering iron,and a few feet of heavier wire. In my Sansui I noticed it right away.I noticed a bit of an improvment on a Kenwood amp,and not so much on a Sony reciever. Probably helps to lower the impedance of the amp also. Those tiny wires suck.. ;-) My question,whenever I see a "super-duper" power cord,or plug,or outlet is.."Well,what about the 100+ miles of wire between your outlet,and the power plant? Not to mention the 4-5 big transformers it went through. I say to heck with all that,just use a noise filter,and a good surge protector,make sure everything is grounded properly,and leave it at that. Maybe a power conditioner/ups,if you are really concerned.. Short of that,theres not much you can do about the noisy,spikey power that you get on those powerlines.. I'd think that replacing a plug,an a few feet of those many,many miles wouldn't make much of a difference,if any at all..Definatly not worth the $500 or more it could cost,IMHO.I've seen "high end: power cords for as much as $800!!,matching "high end" plugs for as much as $300!.Thats plain nuts of you ask me,unless they are made of Kryptonite,with that cool green glow. ;-) One thing I did see in a stereo shop was patch cords that had litz wire (individual enamel insulated strands, thich strands for the bass, thin for the treble, and intermediate for the mids of course). Totally stupid. Bass won't mind swimming thru many thin stands vs a few thick strands. Skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies for anyone other than the phone company. I *have* noticed a difference between speaker cable,and interconnects. I used to use 14AWG Zip-cord for speaker wire,now I have some "decent" (Rockford Fosgate)OFC 15AWG wire,and I like it *alot* more.I did notice clearer treble,and tighter,more controlled bass,right away,and I was very skeptical and didn't expect to hear anything!I was shocked,and pleased!I've had similar experiences with interconnects.I think a system can benefit from using better wire/cables,but I'm sure there's a point of no returns.Spending a few bucks on cables,etc can be beneficial! Just don't go take out a second mortgage on the house to do it. ;-) I've seen alot of "overboard" Audiophool stuff in the backs of audio magazines,and stuff. *some* of it can actually be helpful,some of it I think was written by people who have been sniffing too many green felt pens. ;-) |
#18
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Rick Young wrote in message ...
"t.hoehler" wrote: Directional interconnects -- oh c'mon!! What total bulls**t! If there is shielding, in some cases it is supposed to be connected at only one end. I am not an expert nor claim to know-all, but I believe this has solid 'grounding' (no pun intended) in established electronics practice. I definitely hear a difference in ICs (Mapleshade ribbons vs. Silver wire designs, for instance). Whether the difference is just due to the inherent electrical interactions between IC designs and the source/amplifier circuitry, I cannot say. Or whether it's the 'special chemical metallurgical treatment' or whatever ... I have a "directional" Monstercable subwoofer cable. I called BS at first,untill I unscrewed the covers over the RCA connectors on each end.. *ah-ha!* Theres *3* wires,GND shield,Signal,and GND again,but the third GND wire is only connected to GND at one end.Thus "semi-balanced" or whatever they call it. I guess it is "directional" in a sense.. |
#19
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"Nothing40" wrote in message
om... One of my own pet-peeves is in most "consumer" SS amps.They use like 20awg wire from the power transformer to the circuit boards,from the boards to the speaker terminals,etc,etc. Not to mention those tiny "staple" jumper wires on the boards. I've replaced the tiny power wires in a few amps,and noticed a bit of a difference..Worth the hour of effort with a soldering iron,and a few feet of heavier wire. In my Sansui I noticed it right away.I noticed a bit of an improvment on a Kenwood amp,and not so much on a Sony reciever. Probably helps to lower the impedance of the amp also. Those tiny wires suck.. ;-) More likely you fixed a couple of potential dry joints ..... |
#20
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Possibly Phil Allison crapping on about the high volume power of quad electrostatic speakers and how anybody who complains about their low bass output is HT knuckle dragger or boom box freak. Then discovering later on that when Phil Allison actually owned a pair of quad electrostatic speakers he actually used them with a subwoofer himself. Or maybe Phil Allison claiming audiophile quality sound from a modified JH turntable. |
#21
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#22
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Raymond Koonce wrote in news:1030ceqhgpnfg25
@corp.supernews.com: despicable wrote: Enid Lumley was her name..... Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system. ........ Phil My kind of gal. There is a reason why she is not in print today and it is because her ideas were not replicable. r -- Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes. |
#23
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if 'replicability' was a standard, then most hifi hacks would be out of
work! "Rich Andrews" wrote in message . 44... Raymond Koonce wrote in news:1030ceqhgpnfg25 @corp.supernews.com: despicable wrote: Enid Lumley was her name..... Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system. ........ Phil My kind of gal. There is a reason why she is not in print today and it is because her ideas were not replicable. r -- Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes. |
#24
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Can't agree more. The argument around oxygen free copper is a case in
point. The impurity amount in "oxygen free" and "non-oxygen free" copper is identical, as is the sound. I've often thought that if I ran out of work I could always buy zip cord at Home Depot and sell it for hundreds of dollars a foot to audiophiles. Phread I agree with the above post, the connections inside speakers are generally not too good, and as stated, the crossover components are not the best quality. But if you want to keep your system sounding consistantly good, take your system cable connections apart about every six months and clean the ends with Deoxit or tweek, tighten everything back up, and you'll be AMAZED how much better it sounds. I bet that is why new "super" speaker cable or "outofthisworld" interconnects sound better - you're just cleaning out the grundge when you plug the new stuff in. I still maintain there is NO difference between the very, very, very best, most expensive speaker wire and plain ol' 14 gauge zip cord. I would love to have a cable showdown, once and for all, and expose those cable thieves for what they are - crooks. Directional interconnects -- oh c'mon!! What total bulls**t! Skin effect? That's what you do to a rich audioidiot. You skin 'im! /regards, Tom |
#25
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My question,whenever I see a "super-duper" power cord,or plug,or
outlet is.."Well,what about the 100+ miles of wire between your outlet,and the power plant? Not to mention the 4-5 big transformers it went through. RF rejection is done at the termination point, meaning if a power cord has good RF rejection, it prevents the accumulation from the 100+ miles of outside wiring from entering the amp, and instead taking the path of lesser resistance through other devices like lamps. Believe it or not, the best place for an RF filter on a Rega Planar 3 turntable is on the power cord, even though Rega cartridges aren't especially well shielded My company sells and repairs hospital electronic equipment, and the only diff in power cables is the heavier gauge of the conductors (useful if you're powering an electrosurgical unit, or an x ray machine) and the quality of the connecting mechanisms in the plug and the IEC female end, and that is mostly to ruggedize the ends so they stand up under hospital abuse. But again, if the power supply of the amp, turntable, etc. is worth the price (!) you paid at that high end audio salon, then the quality of the ac being supplied is not a factor on sound. It's just not. Further, if the power supply and/or rf rejection of the high end amp or turntable is not up to snuff, why in heaven's name did you spend the big bucks in the first place? I mean, would you buy a $65,000 BMW and immediately start hanging geegaws from J.C. Whitney on it? C'mon, let's have a reality check here folks. When I think of power conditioners et al, I remember the infamous TICE CLOCK of the eighties. Oh My God! Did old man Tice take a bunch of rich suckers for a ride with that one! That was a case of hype and bulls**t marketing overriding common sense. Do I have a power conditioner on my audio equipment? You bet. Is it a megabuck super duper conditonioner with a stratospheric price tag? No way, just a good quality spike and noise isolation system commonly used for (gasp!) computer systems. It does nothing for the sound, but it prevents damage from ac line trash. There are some terrible spikes and glitches out there just waiting to mop out your audio junk. I suppose you can psych yourself into believing anything, and it's YOUR money, but for once, instead of trying to improve, improve, improve, why not just kick back, and LISTEN to the MUSIC. To hell with the delivery system, enjoy the reason you have all that hifi junk - - - THE MUSIC. Whew! Jumping down from the soapbox now! /regards to all happy ears, Tom |
#26
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What the hell is Oxygen-free copper? Does it mean that the conductor is not
corroded? The only issue for any conductor - no matter if its for sound or power - is reactance,resistance, and ampacity. Aside from shielding for small signals, etc - and insulation/jacket material to protect the conductor in the environment, copper is copper is copper. -- JAMES RUGGIERI "dcoff" wrote in message ... Can't agree more. The argument around oxygen free copper is a case in point. The impurity amount in "oxygen free" and "non-oxygen free" copper is identical, as is the sound. I've often thought that if I ran out of work I could always buy zip cord at Home Depot and sell it for hundreds of dollars a foot to audiophiles. Phread I agree with the above post, the connections inside speakers are generally not too good, and as stated, the crossover components are not the best quality. But if you want to keep your system sounding consistantly good, take your system cable connections apart about every six months and clean the ends with Deoxit or tweek, tighten everything back up, and you'll be AMAZED how much better it sounds. I bet that is why new "super" speaker cable or "outofthisworld" interconnects sound better - you're just cleaning out the grundge when you plug the new stuff in. I still maintain there is NO difference between the very, very, very best, most expensive speaker wire and plain ol' 14 gauge zip cord. I would love to have a cable showdown, once and for all, and expose those cable thieves for what they are - crooks. Directional interconnects -- oh c'mon!! What total bulls**t! Skin effect? That's what you do to a rich audioidiot. You skin 'im! /regards, Tom |
#27
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Do I have a power conditioner on my audio
equipment? You bet. Is it a megabuck super duper conditonioner with a stratospheric price tag? No way, just a good quality spike and noise isolation system commonly used for (gasp!) computer systems. It does nothing for the sound, but it prevents damage from ac line trash. There are some terrible spikes and glitches out there just waiting to mop out your audio junk. This is a point I find really, really hard to believe.Aside from lightning damage, has anyone out there actually had equipment damaged by power quality issues?? Isn't this the reason why filter capacitors are bypassed, and amplifiers are fused? I have always plugged everything including my computer directly into the AC line, and never, ever experienced a problem... maybe someone else out there has, and I can see the value of a UPS for a computer system, or of a variac if the line voltage is low... but what's with this power conditioner for audio equipment stuff?? I can't see it doing anything but adding impedance to the line feeding the equipment, and maybe taking out a bit of noise which would be removed in the equipment's power supply anyways. |
#28
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"MaxH" wrote in message ... Do I have a power conditioner on my audio equipment? You bet. Is it a megabuck super duper conditonioner with a stratospheric price tag? No way, just a good quality spike and noise isolation system commonly used for (gasp!) computer systems. It does nothing for the sound, but it prevents damage from ac line trash. There are some terrible spikes and glitches out there just waiting to mop out your audio junk. This is a point I find really, really hard to believe.Aside from lightning damage, has anyone out there actually had equipment damaged by power quality issues?? Isn't this the reason why filter capacitors are bypassed, and amplifiers are fused? I have always plugged everything including my computer directly into the AC line, and never, ever experienced a problem... maybe someone else out there has, and I can see the value of a UPS for a computer system, or of a variac if the line voltage is low... but what's with this power conditioner for audio equipment stuff?? I can't see it doing anything but adding impedance to the line feeding the equipment, and maybe taking out a bit of noise which would be removed in the equipment's power supply anyways. You are quite right, the noise reduction feature is rather moot, given the bypassing that's already in the equipment. But a real threat to equipment is lightning. Not a direct strike, of course, that would be bad. But the induced spikes that ride in on the ac line can be enormous. Quite a few of my neighbors have lost tv sets, air conditioner compressors, vcrs etc. to line spikes. At least that's what the insurance companies said. Maybe it's just a rattletrap ac distribution system we have here, but the line conditioner has so far kept bad stuff out of the hifi junk. Also have one on the tv junk and the computer junk. These filters do add some impedance, that's for sure, but since the current drawn by the system is so small, 400 watts at most, I haven't heard any sonic degradation. regards, Tom |
#29
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MaxH wrote: Do I have a power conditioner on my audio equipment? You bet. Is it a megabuck super duper conditonioner with a stratospheric price tag? No way, just a good quality spike and noise isolation system commonly used for (gasp!) computer systems. It does nothing for the sound, but it prevents damage from ac line trash. There are some terrible spikes and glitches out there just waiting to mop out your audio junk. This is a point I find really, really hard to believe.Aside from lightning damage, has anyone out there actually had equipment damaged by power quality issues?? Yes. A few years ago, the local utility's control system broke down, and the voltage over the whole local system briefyl soared to over 200 volts (from 120) before the back-up emergency shutdown activated. To their credit, they were very good about reimbursing customers for blown up computers, stereo gear, televisions, even microwave ovens. However, they only reimbursed for immediate damage, since there is no way to prove that failures weeks or months later were caused by components weakened by the surge. Isn't this the reason why filter capacitors are bypassed, I presume you mean bypassed by resistors? No. The main purpose of bypass resistors is to act as bleeders on power-down, to reduce the chance of shock from charged capacitors. A secondary purpose is to slightly reduce the higher-than-normal voltage across the capacitors before the tubes warm up. and amplifiers are fused? Fuses are more of a fire/ smoke/ meltdown preventative. They do take a finite time to blow -- rarely a problem with tube gear, granted; however, in solid-state gear the fastest acting fuse is always the most expensive transistor or IC. (cf. "Murphy's Law") I have always plugged everything including my computer directly into the AC line, and never, ever experienced a problem... Count your blessings! I'm not so fortunate. ;-) maybe someone else out there has, and I can see the value of a UPS for a computer system, or of a variac if the line voltage is low... but what's with this power conditioner for audio equipment stuff?? Depends what you mean by "power conditioner." A decent surge-suppressor (using nice big MOVs capable of dumping many joules of energy) is a good idea even for your less valuable electronic possessions. If a couple dual-wound toroids and maybe a couple capacitors are included for RFI suppression, all the better. (However, this is not normally an issue unless you live close to an AM station, or maybe right next door to an amateur or commercial station.) I can't see it doing anything but adding impedance to the line feeding the equipment, and maybe taking out a bit of noise which would be removed in the equipment's power supply anyways. Consider that the run of wire to your nearest pole-pig plus your house wiring is a lot longer than the extra three feet for a surge/RFI power bar... Then consider that even this distance is negligible for small currents (under 100 amps or so) since it represents only a small fraction of an ohm... whereas the resistance presented by an amplifier drawing -- say 120 watts -- is about 120 ohms. The tiny voltage drop that results is dwarved by even the normal fluctuations as your water heater comes on and off. Never mind the power utility -- it's, after all, just a utility. Play your amp, enjoy the music. Cheers, Fred -- +--------------------------------------------+ | Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ | | Projects: http://dogstar.dantimax.dk | +--------------------------------------------+ |
#30
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"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
news:6rV_b.66965$Hy3.63109@edtnps89... The tiny voltage drop that results is dwarved by even the normal fluctuations as your water heater comes on and off. Wow, even our gas heaters? ;o) (I'd think those would make it sound warmer though...) Tim -- "I have misplaced my pants." - Homer Simpson | Electronics, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --+ Metalcasting and Games: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
#31
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Tim Williams wrote: "Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message news:6rV_b.66965$Hy3.63109@edtnps89... The tiny voltage drop that results is dwarved by even the normal fluctuations as your water heater comes on and off. Wow, even our gas heaters? ;o) Well, even a gas heater... hey wait, there's those microcurrent valves that operate directly from a thermocouple... never mind. :-x (I'd think those would make it sound warmer though...) Tim -- "I have misplaced my pants." - Homer Simpson "Very funny, Scottie. Now beam me up." - James T. Kirk -- +--------------------------------------------+ | Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ | | Projects: http://dogstar.dantimax.dk | +--------------------------------------------+ |
#32
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The scary thing is I worked on an rather expensive phono pre-amplifier
that had been "improved" through the installation of literally dozens of these little tin foil triangles. Now this pre-amplifier had full regulation and a 650V raw supply. Needless to say it was NOT working well when the desperate owner brought it to me. A few fried resistor replacements and a complete "debelting" later and all was fine. I got paid quite a tidy sum to undo what should not have been done in the first place. LOL Phil Allison wrote: "bill ramsay" I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough] anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt in the uk. he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains cords to amps had an effect. likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the application of little tin foil triangles. i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of england. pretty weird eh? can you do better than that? ** There was this completely mad woman who wrote articles for "The Absolute Sound" magazine in the late 1970s - sorry, forget her name - she strongly recommended that any TV set in the house be adjusted so that it was not tuned in to any station nor plugged into any power outlet. Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system. ........ Phil |
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On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:35:43 GMT, Kevin Kennedy
wrote: The scary thing is I worked on an rather expensive phono pre-amplifier that had been "improved" through the installation of literally dozens of these little tin foil triangles. Now this pre-amplifier had full regulation and a 650V raw supply. Needless to say it was NOT working well when the desperate owner brought it to me. A few fried resistor replacements and a complete "debelting" later and all was fine. I got paid quite a tidy sum to undo what should not have been done in the first place. LOL Phil Allison wrote: "bill ramsay" I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough] anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt in the uk. he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains cords to amps had an effect. likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the application of little tin foil triangles. i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of england. pretty weird eh? can you do better than that? ** There was this completely mad woman who wrote articles for "The Absolute Sound" magazine in the late 1970s - sorry, forget her name - she strongly recommended that any TV set in the house be adjusted so that it was not tuned in to any station nor plugged into any power outlet. Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system. ........ Phil I like those articles referring to SS equipment with 'no feedback'. I know triode tubes can sound and function great with no feedback, but a string of transistors? I'd LOVE to see someone build a working amp with a string of 5 series connected beta 500 transistors and NO FEEDBACK!! ( I could never get 2 to work!) The funniest one I remember was in UHF rag where they claimed that there was no feedback because another amp stage picked up the signal and compared it to the original and fixed it... ( to the um-initiated, that's the definition of a feedback circuit!) I wrote to these turkeys once, offering to circle the feedback components on their schematic and return it to them, but they ignored me! Another funny one is where the feedback circuit doesn't pick up the first strum of a guitar, making it sound harsh, until it 'kicks in later' fixing the sound!! So we just shouldn't have it!! People are such dolts sometimes! |
#34
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Yep,
Nothing like the voodoo mods to really screw up a fine piece of audio equipment! Kevin Kennedy wrote: The scary thing is I worked on an rather expensive phono pre-amplifier that had been "improved" through the installation of literally dozens of these little tin foil triangles. Now this pre-amplifier had full regulation and a 650V raw supply. Needless to say it was NOT working well when the desperate owner brought it to me. A few fried resistor replacements and a complete "debelting" later and all was fine. I got paid quite a tidy sum to undo what should not have been done in the first place. LOL Phil Allison wrote: "bill ramsay" I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough] anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt in the uk. he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains cords to amps had an effect. likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the application of little tin foil triangles. i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of england. pretty weird eh? can you do better than that? ** There was this completely mad woman who wrote articles for "The Absolute Sound" magazine in the late 1970s - sorry, forget her name - she strongly recommended that any TV set in the house be adjusted so that it was not tuned in to any station nor plugged into any power outlet. Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system. ........ Phil |
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