[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Cheers

Ian

[Patrick Turner]

Ian Bell wrote:

Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Cheers

Ian

No, they had to sell their garden tools to fend off the bailiff at the
door.

Its stoopid really, because they should be digging out all their wife's
favourite flowering plants and lawns and planting potatoes and corn and
crops to cheapen the grocery bills.

Seriously, when the value of the house plummets, and the value of
superanuation nest eggs evaporates, and when un-earned income from
shares dries up completely, all those baby-boomers who indulged their
fancies by wastefully building tube amps vitually for free are now
suffering serious depression. They are caught by time and the crisis,
and they are too old to go get a cleaner's job at night on poor wages to
make ends meet.

Now I have to wait for the next economic boom to ever find anyone
wanting to buy a new handcrafted amplifier, and despite the fact the Oz
dollar value has gone to usd $0.63c. I should have bought more tubes
from the US when the aud was up around usd $0.90c, but then nobody is
buying anything here either......

The situation makes a man want to throw a brick at anyone driving down
the road in a Mercedes Benz.

Maybe two bricks; one for the back window.

Patrick Turner.

[[email protected]]

On Mar 4, 7:07*pm, Ian Bell wrote:
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Cheers

Ian

We stil have 8" of snow on the ground - but that will melt off this
weekend. We have started a few things inside - and we have gathered
the seeds we want for later plantings.

I am preparing for the big Swap Meet in Kutztown (second weekend in
May), and generally clearing lingering work off the bench. I will be
starting a new R/C ship model soon as well, so I am gathering the
running gear for that. I have the motor & speed control - I need
about 20-40AH in sealed lead-acid batteries both for long-term runs
and ballast. Smaller ones in parallel are preferable for even weight
distribution - and then foaming the rest of the empty space to make
the ship unsinkable - I run in rough waters so that is a
consideration.

Busy.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?


Here in Helsinki we still have 10cms of snow! But the temperature is
hovering just above zero. Twenty years ago the temperature was
often -25C in Feb/March. Nothing like that these days! The meter
on the compost is +20C. It's full of long and juicy earthworms
that will be transferred with the compost to the rosebeds as soon
as the snow has gone. I am amazed how quickly the green shoots
poke through - it's hard to believe there is anything alive under that
white mantle.

Re tube audio. I have given up my share in the workshop which I
had. The other two guys with whom I was collaborating couldn't
get anything together. Lots of BS and beer drinking but no graft:-)

Iain

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Iain Churches wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?


Here in Helsinki we still have 10cms of snow! But the temperature is
hovering just above zero. Twenty years ago the temperature was
often -25C in Feb/March. Nothing like that these days!


I remember it well. I had clients in Helsinki back in the 80s when the
sea froze over regularly. Apparently you could walk from Denmark to
Sweden across it.

The meter
on the compost is +20C. It's full of long and juicy earthworms
that will be transferred with the compost to the rosebeds as soon
as the snow has gone. I am amazed how quickly the green shoots
poke through - it's hard to believe there is anything alive under that
white mantle.

Re tube audio. I have given up my share in the workshop which I
had. The other two guys with whom I was collaborating couldn't
get anything together. Lots of BS and beer drinking but no graft:-)


That's a real pity. That was a really great workshop.


Cheers

Ian
Iain

[Patrick Turner]

Iain Churches wrote:

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?


Here in Helsinki we still have 10cms of snow! But the temperature is
hovering just above zero. Twenty years ago the temperature was
often -25C in Feb/March. Nothing like that these days! The meter
on the compost is +20C. It's full of long and juicy earthworms
that will be transferred with the compost to the rosebeds as soon
as the snow has gone. I am amazed how quickly the green shoots
poke through - it's hard to believe there is anything alive under that
white mantle.

Re tube audio. I have given up my share in the workshop which I
had. The other two guys with whom I was collaborating couldn't
get anything together. Lots of BS and beer drinking but no graft:-)

Now you know the benefits of being independant.

Patrick Turner.

Iain

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to
the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Re tube audio. I have given up my share in the workshop which I
had. The other two guys with whom I was collaborating couldn't
get anything together. Lots of BS and beer drinking but no graft:-)

Now you know the benefits of being independant.

Yes indeed. I thought that if I could just concentrate on
design/building/testing and then leave the mechanical
drawings/ordering of components and sales and office
work to someone else, that would be an ideal situation.
But people have different levels of motivation, and
when it takes 8 months for one of your team to draw a simple
chassis partition for CNC, (and even after all that time for it to
have errors in it!) then it's time to reconsider.

I am seriously thinking about takling up the tenor saxophone.

Iain

[PeterD]

On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:07:32 +0000, Ian Bell
wrote:

Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Cheers

Ian

Generally we have to wait for the snow to melt (still got a couple of
feet of the white crap) and the ground to thaw!

I'd guess that some tube prices will drop to match the current
economy.

[PeterD]

On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:45:15 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Mar 4, 7:07*pm, Ian Bell wrote:
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Cheers

Ian

We stil have 8" of snow on the ground - but that will melt off this
weekend. We have started a few things inside - and we have gathered
the seeds we want for later plantings.


Peter, I'll gladly send you some tubes... Packed carefully with snow
to protect 'em!

Only 8"? Lucky...

[[email protected]]

On Mar 5, 8:35*am, PeterD wrote:
On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:45:15 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Mar 4, 7:07*pm, Ian Bell wrote:
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Cheers

Ian

We stil have 8" of snow on the ground - but that will melt off this
weekend. We have started a few things inside - and we have gathered
the seeds we want for later plantings.

Peter, I'll gladly send you some tubes... Packed carefully with snow
to protect 'em!

Only 8"? Lucky...

Peter:

Thanks for the offer - I have sufficient for my needs and I expect
well into the future. I spent a couple of days, recently, re-sorting
my tubes into three basic categories:

* Pre-1940 radio
* Post-1940 radio
* Audio

Turns out that I have thousands (combined) in the first two
categories, and hundreds in the third. I could re-tube every item I
own and still have enough to do it yet another time or two. The
Philadelphia region was once the center of US vacuum-tube electronics
production with three major makers having tube plants in and around
the city - being RCA, Philco and Sylvania. Manufacturers with
equipment plants in/around the city incuded: A****er Kent, RCA,
Philco, Muntz, Dynaco, Sylvania, VIZ, Acrosound (precursor to Dynaco),
and several others. Fisher had a small cabinet and speaker plant in
central PA - and on and on.

Point being that my intake of tubes even now still greatly exceeds my
expenditure based on garage sales, flea-markets, curbside trash-picks,
dumpster-diving, porch-puppies and the like. Good thing I have a good
deal of space for these endeavors.

Thanks again for the offer.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[[email protected]]

I'm using my gardening tools to fend them off. Frank

[Ian Iveson]

Ian Bell wrote:

Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone
started gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is
everyone so broke due to the credit crunch that they
cannot afford tubes any more?

Ne'er cast a clout til may's out.

My daffs are impetuous, in my view. There's two weeks yet
before Spring, and plenty of time for more freezing.

This Winter, I've been struggling with op amps.

Ian

[Raymond Koonce]

It was 85°F (29°C) in East Texas today, sunny and windy. Blooms
starting to pop out. Spring's on the way.

Close to completing my 71A PP amp, looking for nice lacquer weather to
finish. It was a nice winter project. I'll post photos when it's done.

Happy Spring

Raymond


Ian Iveson wrote:
Ian Bell wrote:

Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone
started gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is
everyone so broke due to the credit crunch that they
cannot afford tubes any more?

Ne'er cast a clout til may's out.

My daffs are impetuous, in my view. There's two weeks yet
before Spring, and plenty of time for more freezing.

This Winter, I've been struggling with op amps.

Ian

[Patrick Turner]

Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to
the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Re tube audio. I have given up my share in the workshop which I
had. The other two guys with whom I was collaborating couldn't
get anything together. Lots of BS and beer drinking but no graft:-)

Now you know the benefits of being independant.

Yes indeed. I thought that if I could just concentrate on
design/building/testing and then leave the mechanical
drawings/ordering of components and sales and office
work to someone else, that would be an ideal situation.
But people have different levels of motivation, and
when it takes 8 months for one of your team to draw a simple
chassis partition for CNC, (and even after all that time for it to
have errors in it!) then it's time to reconsider.

I am seriously thinking about takling up the tenor saxophone.

Iain

I have to do everything myself.

Patrick Turner.

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Ian Iveson wrote:
Ian Bell wrote:

Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone
started gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is
everyone so broke due to the credit crunch that they
cannot afford tubes any more?

Ne'er cast a clout til may's out.

My daffs are impetuous, in my view. There's two weeks yet
before Spring, and plenty of time for more freezing.


And as if to prove the point we had frost the last two nights - but the
daffs seem OK.


Cheers


This Winter, I've been struggling with op amps.

Ian

[[email protected]]

On Mar 5, 9:43*pm, "Ian Iveson"
wrote:

Ne'er cast a clout til may's out.

Brooklyn National Anthem

“De spring is sprung,
De grass is riz;
I wunneh wear de flowers is.
De boid is on de wing --”

“Absoid! De wing is on de boid!”

Anon


Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

wrote:
On Mar 5, 9:43 pm, "Ian Iveson"
wrote:

Ne'er cast a clout til may's out.

Brooklyn National Anthem

“De spring is sprung,
De grass is riz;
I wunneh wear de flowers is.
De boid is on de wing --”

“Absoid! De wing is on de boid!”

Anon


Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Excellent. The first two lines are well known here in the UK but that's
the first time I have heard the second pair - and of course the closing
comment is just priceless. Thanks for brightening my day.

Cheers

Ian

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:17:30 +0000, Ian Bell
wrote:

wrote:
On Mar 5, 9:43 pm, "Ian Iveson"
wrote:

Ne'er cast a clout til may's out.

Brooklyn National Anthem

“De spring is sprung,
De grass is riz;
I wunneh wear de flowers is.
De boid is on de wing --”

“Absoid! De wing is on de boid!”

Anon


Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Excellent. The first two lines are well known here in the UK but that's
the first time I have heard the second pair - and of course the closing
comment is just priceless. Thanks for brightening my day.

Cheers

I remember it differently. this is it (without the accent)

Spring is sprung
The grass is ris
I wonder where the birdies is
The birds is on the wing, I've heard
But that is quite absurd
Because as everybody knows
The wing is on the bird.

d

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to
the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Re tube audio. I have given up my share in the workshop which I
had. The other two guys with whom I was collaborating couldn't
get anything together. Lots of BS and beer drinking but no graft:-)

Now you know the benefits of being independant.

Yes indeed. I thought that if I could just concentrate on
design/building/testing and then leave the mechanical
drawings/ordering of components and sales and office
work to someone else, that would be an ideal situation.
But people have different levels of motivation, and
when it takes 8 months for one of your team to draw a simple
chassis partition for CNC, (and even after all that time for it to
have errors in it!) then it's time to reconsider.

I am seriously thinking about takling up the tenor saxophone.


I have to do everything myself.

Understood. I reckon a team of about five people
is needed for a small, efficient bespoke audio engineering
manufacturing enterprise.

But paying these people and keeping them
motivated if they are unpaid is a different matter:-)

Iain

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Iain Churches wrote:
"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

Iain Churches wrote:
"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

Iain Churches wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to
the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Re tube audio. I have given up my share in the workshop which I
had. The other two guys with whom I was collaborating couldn't
get anything together. Lots of BS and beer drinking but no graft:-)
Now you know the benefits of being independant.
Yes indeed. I thought that if I could just concentrate on
design/building/testing and then leave the mechanical
drawings/ordering of components and sales and office
work to someone else, that would be an ideal situation.
But people have different levels of motivation, and
when it takes 8 months for one of your team to draw a simple
chassis partition for CNC, (and even after all that time for it to
have errors in it!) then it's time to reconsider.

I am seriously thinking about takling up the tenor saxophone.


I have to do everything myself.

Understood. I reckon a team of about five people
is needed for a small, efficient bespoke audio engineering
manufacturing enterprise.

But paying these people and keeping them
motivated if they are unpaid is a different matter:-)

Iain


When we started our development business back in '87 we contracted out a
lot of the non-core stuff like metalwork, silk screening and even PCB
layout (but in those days cheap PCB based CAD systems did not exist). It
was not until some years later when we were rather bigger that we
brought some it back in house. You might like to consider doing
something similar.

Cheers

Ian

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

Iain Churches wrote:
"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

Iain Churches wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to
the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Re tube audio. I have given up my share in the workshop which I
had. The other two guys with whom I was collaborating couldn't
get anything together. Lots of BS and beer drinking but no graft:-)
Now you know the benefits of being independant.
Yes indeed. I thought that if I could just concentrate on
design/building/testing and then leave the mechanical
drawings/ordering of components and sales and office
work to someone else, that would be an ideal situation.
But people have different levels of motivation, and
when it takes 8 months for one of your team to draw a simple
chassis partition for CNC, (and even after all that time for it to
have errors in it!) then it's time to reconsider.

I am seriously thinking about takling up the tenor saxophone.


I have to do everything myself.

Understood. I reckon a team of about five people
is needed for a small, efficient bespoke audio engineering
manufacturing enterprise.

But paying these people and keeping them
motivated if they are unpaid is a different matter:-)


When we started our development business back in '87 we contracted out a
lot of the non-core stuff like metalwork, silk screening and even PCB
layout (but in those days cheap PCB based CAD systems did not exist). It
was not until some years later when we were rather bigger that we brought
some it back in house. You might like to consider doing something similar.


Hi Ian. Tha's more or less what we did, but someone has to draw the
chassis or the turret board before it can be manufacturted. Most metal
shops are CAD/CAM now, so a rough sketch on the back of a cigarette
packet is no longer acceptable:-)

Someone has to be a progress chaser, someone has to look after the
office work, and order parts and components. Some one has to look
after sales. It is all too much for one single individual.

One cannot compete on price (the Chinese have seen to that) but one
can compete on quality and a bespoke range of high class amps. There
are still people out there to whom build quality is important.

To be able to build at a realsistic price, batches of five to ten units are
necessary. This also requires finance.

Iain

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Iain Churches wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to
the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Re tube audio. I have given up my share in the workshop which I
had. The other two guys with whom I was collaborating couldn't
get anything together. Lots of BS and beer drinking but no graft:-)
Now you know the benefits of being independant.
Yes indeed. I thought that if I could just concentrate on
design/building/testing and then leave the mechanical
drawings/ordering of components and sales and office
work to someone else, that would be an ideal situation.
But people have different levels of motivation, and
when it takes 8 months for one of your team to draw a simple
chassis partition for CNC, (and even after all that time for it to
have errors in it!) then it's time to reconsider.

I am seriously thinking about takling up the tenor saxophone.

I have to do everything myself.
Understood. I reckon a team of about five people
is needed for a small, efficient bespoke audio engineering
manufacturing enterprise.

But paying these people and keeping them
motivated if they are unpaid is a different matter:-)


When we started our development business back in '87 we contracted out a
lot of the non-core stuff like metalwork, silk screening and even PCB
layout (but in those days cheap PCB based CAD systems did not exist). It
was not until some years later when we were rather bigger that we brought
some it back in house. You might like to consider doing something similar.


Hi Ian. Tha's more or less what we did, but someone has to draw the
chassis or the turret board before it can be manufacturted. Most metal
shops are CAD/CAM now, so a rough sketch on the back of a cigarette
packet is no longer acceptable:-)

Someone has to be a progress chaser, someone has to look after the
office work, and order parts and components. Some one has to look
after sales. It is all too much for one single individual.

One cannot compete on price (the Chinese have seen to that) but one
can compete on quality and a bespoke range of high class amps. There
are still people out there to whom build quality is important.

To be able to build at a realsistic price, batches of five to ten units are
necessary. This also requires finance.

Iain




Yes, I guess it all depends on the size of the business. Is this your
full time employment or just a sideline?? Whenever you have business
partners you have to be certain they are as motivated as you.

Cheers

Ian

[Patrick Turner]

Iain Churches wrote:

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Iain Churches wrote:
"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

Iain Churches wrote:
"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

Iain Churches wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Its nearly spring in the northern hemisphere. Has everyone started
gardening? Is that why it is so quiet or is everyone so broke due to
the
credit crunch that they cannot afford tubes any more?

Re tube audio. I have given up my share in the workshop which I
had. The other two guys with whom I was collaborating couldn't
get anything together. Lots of BS and beer drinking but no graft:-)
Now you know the benefits of being independant.
Yes indeed. I thought that if I could just concentrate on
design/building/testing and then leave the mechanical
drawings/ordering of components and sales and office
work to someone else, that would be an ideal situation.
But people have different levels of motivation, and
when it takes 8 months for one of your team to draw a simple
chassis partition for CNC, (and even after all that time for it to
have errors in it!) then it's time to reconsider.

I am seriously thinking about takling up the tenor saxophone.


I have to do everything myself.

Understood. I reckon a team of about five people
is needed for a small, efficient bespoke audio engineering
manufacturing enterprise.

But paying these people and keeping them
motivated if they are unpaid is a different matter:-)


When we started our development business back in '87 we contracted out a
lot of the non-core stuff like metalwork, silk screening and even PCB
layout (but in those days cheap PCB based CAD systems did not exist). It
was not until some years later when we were rather bigger that we brought
some it back in house. You might like to consider doing something similar.


Hi Ian. Tha's more or less what we did, but someone has to draw the
chassis or the turret board before it can be manufacturted. Most metal
shops are CAD/CAM now, so a rough sketch on the back of a cigarette
packet is no longer acceptable:-)

I had to draw my chassis up very carefully before I had a batch made by
a metalwork company which specialises in metal enclosures for switch
boards, fire alarm systems security protection. They are only affordable
because they are constantly working with continuity. Then I had to scan
them and take a disc with scans to a guy who entered the scans into his
program where he re-entered all the size info so the machine knew what
to punch out.
They charge about $300 minimum "set up" fee. But the chassis I had made
were far cheaper and better had I done it all myself.

Over the last 5 years I have not received an order for an amp which
suits the chassis I had made. I spent over 2 grand on those chassis
after selling an old motor vehicle for more than I expected to get. No
return so far on that investment. I've had only one enquiry for a kit of
parts, but kits are bad for business because they only want to pay
peanuts and one has to look after all their troubles and ignorance when
they try to put a kit together.

I only pay others to do something when they are specialists in doing
what's wanted; paying someone else to make things with hand tools on a
bench is out of the question, because they won't work on a piece rate
like have to. I am the only one who is willing to work the long hours to
do all the R&D for a one off design. The R&D for one good amp like my
845 SET amps is the same as one needs to make a batch, although if you
make a batch you have the opportunity explore mass making boards and
chassis, so the R&D per unit of a batch goes down while time spent
sorting out suppliers goes up. Nobody wants to help me by handling the
sales based on 10% of the manufacturing cost. They want a "commission"
of at least 30%, and they won't spend a cent on adverts. When I had amps
in shops, they wanted 50% of the retail price which left me working at
Chinese labour rates.
Trouble is a bowl of rice in Oz costs more than in China.

So, middle men and bludgers and suckers are to be ignored and avoided at
all costs.

I'm lucky the Internet blossomed just after I began to make
amplifiers.


Someone has to be a progress chaser, someone has to look after the
office work, and order parts and components. Some one has to look
after sales. It is all too much for one single individual.


Depends. If you wish to make one amp a week then its too much for one
man even if he's 30 and full of youthful zest and his missus does his
washing and cooks dinner etc, so that he can do the night shift on the
books, designs, mails, negotations, R&D, testing, etc.

One cannot compete on price (the Chinese have seen to that) but one
can compete on quality and a bespoke range of high class amps. There
are still people out there to whom build quality is important.

To be able to build at a realsistic price, batches of five to ten units are
necessary. This also requires finance.

And then you must sell them or its a big loss, and some amps take 5
years to sell.

I could very easily go broke by investing in making a batch of tube
amps, just like people do when they mortgage their house to start a
restaurant, only to find that the bills to do it are far more than
anticipated and the people just don't turn up for a feed in big numbers.

Its better that I cater for the converted who know about tubes and who
understand the world as i do.

They don't care about the cheap Chinese instant solution.

These people are the small minority.

At present they keep me very very busy, but who knows, maybe in 8 mths
I'll be sweeping the streets if economies get worse instead of better.

Patrick Turner.



Iain

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...

Yes, I guess it all depends on the size of the business. Is this your full
time employment or just a sideline??

It's a sideline. But I could see that the potential was indeed very
good indeed. There are still people interested in quality and a
level of bespoke design which larger manufacturers cannot offer.

Whenever you have business partners you have to be certain they are as
motivated as you.

Indeed. My colleagues seem to use the workshop as an
excuse to get away from nagging wives and noisy kids, and
for talking BS and drinking beer.

I guess each of us has his/her own level of motivation:-)

Iain

[Patrick Turner]

Iain Churches wrote:

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...

Yes, I guess it all depends on the size of the business. Is this your full
time employment or just a sideline??

It's a sideline. But I could see that the potential was indeed very
good indeed. There are still people interested in quality and a
level of bespoke design which larger manufacturers cannot offer.

Whenever you have business partners you have to be certain they are as
motivated as you.

Indeed. My colleagues seem to use the workshop as an
excuse to get away from nagging wives and noisy kids, and
for talking BS and drinking beer.

I guess each of us has his/her own level of motivation:-)


Getting other people to work means you have to provide enough financial
reward.
Then you have to make them entirely responsible for what they do, so
they turn up and bull****, they don't get paid.

Then you have to be there to lead them and inquire and to be cheerful
and to encourage and to get them going because that's what you are
doing, going along with a fair pace yourself.

I well remember the days when I became and earger beaver builder's
leading hand and later when I became a foreman for 10 years. I was
bored by the general attitude of the blokes wanting to spend all day
talking and bull****ting about anything else except about the job. So I
set the pace and led by example. They'd respect that, and worked. But if
unled, men are bludgers if they are employed by the hour.

But now work is done by many more peice work contractors rather than by
guys employed on hourly wages. The guys laying bricks get paid by the
thousand and they can make 3 times wages if they pull their fingers out,
so the productivity has risen with the increase in sub-contractors who
are allergic to bludgers on their teams. 30 years ago many workplaces
had people standing around like statues. At road works there was always
one guy using a shovel and 4 watching, and all with fat beer guts, and
smoking. Its not so common now because the roads get fixed with much
less manpower and with a lot of fancy machinery, and men work because
the more they do the more they earn. The machines make it easier, so the
fat guts remain, but the guy is thinking a lot more these days.

There is sweet F.All financial reward making tube amps, and to train
someone to do what I can do is an activity I cannot find time for and
still make a wage myself. I've had an add in the Yellow pages and a
website going all these years but had only one equiry for an
apprenticeship and not one equiry for a job. So I have nothing to
motivate anyone with. The fact is very few people actually enjoy their
work.
And anyone with my skills won't be needed when finally all the tube amps
needing a fix are chucked out. There's a big future for a lad wanting to
become a plumber because despite the advances of science people still
have to deal with ****ing and ****ting and washing themselves.
Ampworkers will finally become extinct a little after I expire.

Patrick Turner.



Iain

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...

Yes, I guess it all depends on the size of the business. Is this your
full
time employment or just a sideline??

It's a sideline. But I could see that the potential was indeed very
good indeed. There are still people interested in quality and a
level of bespoke design which larger manufacturers cannot offer.

Whenever you have business partners you have to be certain they are as
motivated as you.

Indeed. My colleagues seem to use the workshop as an
excuse to get away from nagging wives and noisy kids, and
for talking BS and drinking beer.

I guess each of us has his/her own level of motivation:-)


Getting other people to work means you have to provide enough financial
reward.
Then you have to make them entirely responsible for what they do, so
they turn up and bull****, they don't get paid.



Well the idea started out as a co-operative (which was actually
a totally impracticable "post hippy" dream.

Our plan was to use the format of say a small IT company.
No one gets a wage or salary, but a dividend (paid out on
shares) from the profits, when they start to appear. This,
together with a no-debt financial structure makes the company
lean and competive.

Then you have to be there to lead them and inquire and to be cheerful
and to encourage and to get them going because that's what you are
doing, going along with a fair pace yourself.

The others could not spend the same amount of time in the workshop
as I could Nagging wives and screaming kids, plus the need to consume
large quantities of beer in seedy bars at every possible opportunity
took up much of their time.


There is sweet F.All financial reward making tube amps, and to train
someone to do what I can do is an activity I cannot find time for and
still make a wage myself.

Well, the market research we we did, showed there to be
considerable potential building low volume high quality equipment
with bespoke features/options that the larger makers cannot
possibly offer.

I spent many interesting hours talking with dealers, reviewers
and potential customers trying to find out what they thought a good
tube amp should be.

It's strange that when you present people with a blank sheet of
paper, they can write nothing. But as soon as you show them a
finished amp, they start to say "Why did you do this? Why is that
like that. Why is it this colour? I would have preferred a narrower
deeper chassis etc etc."

I've had an add in the Yellow pages and a
website going all these years but had only one equiry for an
apprenticeship and not one equiry for a job. So I have nothing to
motivate anyone with. The fact is very few people actually enjoy their
work.

Indeed. One of my partners was a compressor salesman (probably
the most boring job in the world:-(( He had a dream of one day
being a small high-end tube amp builder - but when it came to it,
even given the opportunity, he did not have the dedication or self-
discipline needed.

And anyone with my skills won't be needed when finally all the tube amps
needing a fix are chucked out. There's a big future for a lad wanting to
become a plumber because despite the advances of science people still
have to deal with ****ing and ****ting and washing themselves.
Ampworkers will finally become extinct a little after I expire.


Yes. I have a feeling you might be right. The effects of recession
(with only the tip of the iceberg now showing) may be with us for
a very long time.

Iain

[Patrick Turner]

Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...

Yes, I guess it all depends on the size of the business. Is this your
full
time employment or just a sideline??

It's a sideline. But I could see that the potential was indeed very
good indeed. There are still people interested in quality and a
level of bespoke design which larger manufacturers cannot offer.

Whenever you have business partners you have to be certain they are as
motivated as you.

Indeed. My colleagues seem to use the workshop as an
excuse to get away from nagging wives and noisy kids, and
for talking BS and drinking beer.

I guess each of us has his/her own level of motivation:-)


Getting other people to work means you have to provide enough financial
reward.
Then you have to make them entirely responsible for what they do, so
they turn up and bull****, they don't get paid.

Well the idea started out as a co-operative (which was actually
a totally impracticable "post hippy" dream.

Hmm, socialism don't work too well.

Everyone waits around for someone to do something for them.



Our plan was to use the format of say a small IT company.
No one gets a wage or salary, but a dividend (paid out on
shares) from the profits, when they start to appear. This,
together with a no-debt financial structure makes the company
lean and competive.

Hmm, I never tried this; maybe I think people are just too flawed....



Then you have to be there to lead them and inquire and to be cheerful
and to encourage and to get them going because that's what you are
doing, going along with a fair pace yourself.

The others could not spend the same amount of time in the workshop
as I could Nagging wives and screaming kids, plus the need to consume
large quantities of beer in seedy bars at every possible opportunity
took up much of their time.

Make sure you employ well balanced single men who don't drink.

They form 2% of the population.

I am such a man, but I am fully employed by my customers.



There is sweet F.All financial reward making tube amps, and to train
someone to do what I can do is an activity I cannot find time for and
still make a wage myself.

Well, the market research we we did, showed there to be
considerable potential building low volume high quality equipment
with bespoke features/options that the larger makers cannot
possibly offer.

"Potential" can mean there is a pie in that there sky.

I spent many interesting hours talking with dealers, reviewers
and potential customers trying to find out what they thought a good
tube amp should be.

It's strange that when you present people with a blank sheet of
paper, they can write nothing. But as soon as you show them a
finished amp, they start to say "Why did you do this? Why is that
like that. Why is it this colour? I would have preferred a narrower
deeper chassis etc etc."

No need to present blank paper. Just say what you want done.



I've had an add in the Yellow pages and a
website going all these years but had only one equiry for an
apprenticeship and not one equiry for a job. So I have nothing to
motivate anyone with. The fact is very few people actually enjoy their
work.

Indeed. One of my partners was a compressor salesman (probably
the most boring job in the world:-(( He had a dream of one day
being a small high-end tube amp builder - but when it came to it,
even given the opportunity, he did not have the dedication or self-
discipline needed.

There are hundreds of guys who start out to build themselves a tube amp
and they give up.

And about nobody who'd like to make anything using their hands, for a
pittance.


And anyone with my skills won't be needed when finally all the tube amps
needing a fix are chucked out. There's a big future for a lad wanting to
become a plumber because despite the advances of science people still
have to deal with ****ing and ****ting and washing themselves.
Ampworkers will finally become extinct a little after I expire.

Yes. I have a feeling you might be right. The effects of recession
(with only the tip of the iceberg now showing) may be with us for
a very long time.

If you are wealthy, its a good time to plan a holiday. Maybe you are the
only one at the resort.
All the girls will crowd around you at the bar. The only bloke with a
loud shirt on.

Patrick Turner.

Iain

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

Getting other people to work means you have to provide enough financial
reward.
Then you have to make them entirely responsible for what they do, so
they turn up and bull****, they don't get paid.

Well the idea started out as a co-operative (which was actually
a totally impracticable "post hippy" dream.

Hmm, socialism don't work too well.

Agreed. I used to travel a lot in the old Soviet Union.
There was full employment - men and women shovelling
coal from one railway truck to another (identical) truck.


Our plan was to use the format of say a small IT company.
No one gets a wage or salary, but a dividend (paid out on
shares) from the profits, when they start to appear. This,
together with a no-debt financial structure makes the company
lean and competive.

Hmm, I never tried this; maybe I think people are just too flawed....

It's a common way to set up a company with partners in the UK.
One is (for instance) financial director. He is a person who has
good contacts with banks and financial institutions. The MD might
be a lawyer (interested in hi-fi) whose wife can look after the
accounts, and so on. But finding the right people with a sufficient
level of motivation and the spare time to get the thing up and
running, is difficult.

Make sure you employ well balanced single men who don't drink.

I would much rather have had half-a-dozen middle-aged women
doing the pristine assembly work in floral aprons and headscarves -
like I remember seeing at the Leak factory when I visted
there with my Dad.

Well, the market research we we did, showed there to be
considerable potential building low volume high quality equipment
with bespoke features/options that the larger makers cannot
possibly offer.

"Potential" can mean there is a pie in that there sky.

Yes of course:-) Here in Scandinavia, there is still an
interest in, and a demand for, quality. Chinese cheapo products
are held in low esteem.

I spent many interesting hours talking with dealers, reviewers
and potential customers trying to find out what they thought a good
tube amp should be.

It's strange that when you present people with a blank sheet of
paper, they can write nothing. But as soon as you show them a
finished amp, they start to say "Why did you do this? Why is that
like that. Why is it this colour? I would have preferred a narrower
deeper chassis etc etc."

No need to present blank paper. Just say what you want done.

You misunderstand. I was asking for ideas, suggestions, as to
what kind of amp they would like to see. These were mainly
consmetic/layout options and choice of materials.

There are hundreds of guys who start out to build themselves a tube amp
and they give up.

Yes, that's true. I have stripped out and completed
amps for people who did not have the skill/patience to finish them.
But usually, they are pretty ungrateful, not willing to pay much for
your help and say "Well, I could have done it just as well, if I had
the time" !!!! You gotta *make* the time:-)

about nobody who'd like to make anything using their hands, for a
pittance.

When building something for yourself, particularly an amp,
it doesn't matter how long it takes. It's going to be a piece
of equipment to please you for perhaps the next 20 years!

If you are wealthy, its a good time to plan a holiday. Maybe you are the
only one at the resort.
All the girls will crowd around you at the bar. The only bloke with a
loud shirt on.

Don't really go for 100dB shirts:-)

I am going to take up the tenor saxophone instead.

Iain

[Patrick Turner]

Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

Getting other people to work means you have to provide enough financial
reward.
Then you have to make them entirely responsible for what they do, so
they turn up and bull****, they don't get paid.

Well the idea started out as a co-operative (which was actually
a totally impracticable "post hippy" dream.

Hmm, socialism don't work too well.

Agreed. I used to travel a lot in the old Soviet Union.
There was full employment - men and women shovelling
coal from one railway truck to another (identical) truck.

Well, they keep warm that way and burn off the calories from their diets
of sausage and potatoes.



Our plan was to use the format of say a small IT company.
No one gets a wage or salary, but a dividend (paid out on
shares) from the profits, when they start to appear. This,
together with a no-debt financial structure makes the company
lean and competive.

Hmm, I never tried this; maybe I think people are just too flawed....

It's a common way to set up a company with partners in the UK.
One is (for instance) financial director. He is a person who has
good contacts with banks and financial institutions.

Hmm, fat lot of good that would do these days.

The MD might
be a lawyer (interested in hi-fi) whose wife can look after the
accounts, and so on. But finding the right people with a sufficient
level of motivation and the spare time to get the thing up and
running, is difficult.

Of course, and people have to live, so what they do must bring an
income.

Dreams are mainly unaffordable. So people need to have just a few good
plans.


Make sure you employ well balanced single men who don't drink.

I would much rather have had half-a-dozen middle-aged women
doing the pristine assembly work in floral aprons and headscarves -
like I remember seeing at the Leak factory when I visted
there with my Dad.

Those very women may have been trained to do men's work in WW2, and they
grew into the work.

Young women are now very good at multitasking, but cannot concentrate on
anything, and a are a pile of bother to employ.
You try to give a job where a woman gets her hands filthy. She isn't
like her mum with floral apron and headscarf.




Well, the market research we we did, showed there to be
considerable potential building low volume high quality equipment
with bespoke features/options that the larger makers cannot
possibly offer.

"Potential" can mean there is a pie in that there sky.

Yes of course:-) Here in Scandinavia, there is still an
interest in, and a demand for, quality. Chinese cheapo products
are held in low esteem.

Except that when crap is in the shop for 1/4 of the price for what you
make, and the missus controls the purse, what gets purchased?


I spent many interesting hours talking with dealers, reviewers
and potential customers trying to find out what they thought a good
tube amp should be.

It's strange that when you present people with a blank sheet of
paper, they can write nothing. But as soon as you show them a
finished amp, they start to say "Why did you do this? Why is that
like that. Why is it this colour? I would have preferred a narrower
deeper chassis etc etc."

No need to present blank paper. Just say what you want done.

You misunderstand. I was asking for ideas, suggestions, as to
what kind of amp they would like to see. These were mainly
consmetic/layout options and choice of materials.

A leader should know that before he begins. I don't recall Peter Walker
needing a committee to advise him on what the Quad systems he made
needed to include.



There are hundreds of guys who start out to build themselves a tube amp
and they give up.

Yes, that's true. I have stripped out and completed
amps for people who did not have the skill/patience to finish them.
But usually, they are pretty ungrateful, not willing to pay much for
your help and say "Well, I could have done it just as well, if I had
the time" !!!! You gotta *make* the time:-)

Yes, I get those sort of customers. One gets to implement ideas better
than in the original Dynaco or Quad etc...

Its satisfying work and my customers enjoy the results. They pay
something rather than nothing, so be grateful.
Its better than driving a taxi or washing dishes at a restaurant.


about nobody who'd like to make anything using their hands, for a
pittance.

When building something for yourself, particularly an amp,
it doesn't matter how long it takes. It's going to be a piece
of equipment to please you for perhaps the next 20 years!

You must draw a line with time sooner or later.



If you are wealthy, its a good time to plan a holiday. Maybe you are the
only one at the resort.
All the girls will crowd around you at the bar. The only bloke with a
loud shirt on.

Don't really go for 100dB shirts:-)

Its a very american thing to be seen wearing a Hiwaian island shirt
while on leave.


I am going to take up the tenor saxophone instead.

It sound like saying "Ladies and Gentlemen, for my next act of masochism
I will blow air down a pipe and make raspy jazz tones".

I hope the world rewards you.

I began making amps and doing repairs and figured I'd have to carry on
without venture finance and without knowing ppl with good connections in
the business world. Most of these people would be rip off merchants, ie,
professional arsoles. They only want to help if there is a big quid in
it for them without dirtying their hands or raising a sweat.

I figured I would not mortgage my house to fund any ventures but save
enough from what i earned to pay the costs of living and those of making
the next project which I may sell. The only advance funding is the
deposit for an amp one receives at ordering time.

I happen to not mind a frugal life. Gross materialism never made me
happy.

I don't mind a 4 hour bicycle ride. Its better than having a 4 hour ride
on Jennifer Hawking because although she'd make me look rich when I
drove down the street in the BMW I'd need to cart her around in, the
costs are extremely prohibitive to pleasure.

She'd never love me.

Money can't buy you love, even when your'e 25. Older silly men still
dream of having this and that and nothing makes them really happy and
life becomes one big sham.

But not with me.

You must know what you want and why.

Patrick Turner.

Iain

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

It's a common way to set up a company with partners in the UK.
One is (for instance) financial director. He is a person who has
good contacts with banks and financial institutions.

Hmm, fat lot of good that would do these days.

All companies need finance, and it really makes no difference
where it comes from - banks or individual investors, as long as
the price is sustainable. In some instances venture capital may
be appropriate.


The MD might
be a lawyer (interested in hi-fi) whose wife can look after the
accounts, and so on. But finding the right people with a sufficient
level of motivation and the spare time to get the thing up and
running, is difficult.

Of course, and people have to live, so what they do must bring an
income.

There are many that have an income and want to be involved in
something extra. These are the people to look for.

merolo
Young women are now very good at multitasking, but cannot concentrate on
anything, and a are a pile of bother to employ.
You try to give a job where a woman gets her hands filthy. She isn't
like her mum with floral apron and headscarf.

Hmm. There are two very good young female mechanics at
the local Volvo dealership. One stands in for the foreman
when he is away. No doubt she will become a forewomen (!!)
in her own right when a vacancy ocurrs.

Well, the market research we we did, showed there to be
considerable potential building low volume high quality equipment
with bespoke features/options that the larger makers cannot
possibly offer.

"Potential" can mean there is a pie in that there sky.

It has a lot to do with market research.

Yes of course:-) Here in Scandinavia, there is still an
interest in, and a demand for, quality. Chinese cheapo products
are held in low esteem.

Except that when crap is in the shop for 1/4 of the price for what you
make, and the missus controls the purse, what gets purchased?

A large percentage of middle-aged males, middle-class/professional
class have a considerable disposable income. They spend it as they
choose. They also apprecxiate the finer things in life such as Verdier
or SME turntables, and a bottle or Merlot 1994.

You misunderstand. I was asking for ideas, suggestions, as to
what kind of amp they would like to see. These were mainly
consmetic/layout options and choice of materials.

A leader should know that before he begins. I don't recall Peter Walker
needing a committee to advise him on what the Quad systems he made
needed to include.

Not quite the same thing. He had little or no competion except for
Radford. Now there are 100's of maufacturers from which one can
choose. There is no way to compete with the Chinese on price, but
onhe can shoot them down in flames (literally!) on both build quality
and performance. Measurte the power bandwidth of a Chinese EL34
PP amp at full power Then look at the THD. At frequencies 50Hz
you the meter will probably be off the scale on the 10% rage!!!


Its satisfying work and my customers enjoy the results. They pay
something rather than nothing, so be grateful.
Its better than driving a taxi or washing dishes at a restaurant.

I don't need to do either. I work on tube amps because they
interest me. But a decent workshop costs money, so one cannot
work for nothing.

If you are wealthy, its a good time to plan a holiday. Maybe you are
the
only one at the resort.
All the girls will crowd around you at the bar. The only bloke with a
loud shirt on.

Don't really go for 100dB shirts:-)

Its a very american thing to be seen wearing a Hiwaian island shirt
while on leave.


I am going to take up the tenor saxophone instead.

It sound like saying "Ladies and Gentlemen, for my next act of masochism
I will blow air down a pipe and make raspy jazz tones".

Oh no:-) Don't get me wrong. I have been a semi-pro
musician all my life. Learning a new instrument is a challenge,
and a saxophone is a very gregarious beast, you see them in
groups of five in all big bands.

I hope the world rewards you.

It's just for pleasure, and intellectual stimulation.
Listen to Paul Gonsalves and you will see what I mean

I began making amps and doing repairs and figured I'd have to carry on
without venture finance and without knowing ppl with good connections in
the business world. Most of these people would be rip off merchants, ie,
professional arsoles. They only want to help if there is a big quid in
it for them without dirtying their hands or raising a sweat.

It's a sad fact of life that dealer's will want 35-40%. They espect you
to supply demo and also stock units, but don't want to pay for anything
until it is sold.


Iain

[Patrick Turner]

Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

It's a common way to set up a company with partners in the UK.
One is (for instance) financial director. He is a person who has
good contacts with banks and financial institutions.

Hmm, fat lot of good that would do these days.

All companies need finance, and it really makes no difference
where it comes from - banks or individual investors, as long as
the price is sustainable. In some instances venture capital may
be appropriate.

Too many people have a dream about a business of their own and borrow
way too much and the cash flow of sales cannot cover the cost of the
loan.

When cash flow is low, one cannot afford a loan at all.



The MD might
be a lawyer (interested in hi-fi) whose wife can look after the
accounts, and so on. But finding the right people with a sufficient
level of motivation and the spare time to get the thing up and
running, is difficult.

Of course, and people have to live, so what they do must bring an
income.

There are many that have an income and want to be involved in
something extra. These are the people to look for.

Yes, and that's the reason why ppl take up selling Amway products. I
have been to one of their propmo meetings and I told the guy who took me
along that I'd never heard a bigger pile of bull**** and lies. He was
surprised. He'd been running an electronics business for 30 years and
couldn't afford any luxuries so he thinks the pyramid system would work
but he had to work to con people into working for almost nothing for him
to get anything. He'd already had one heart attack at 68. He asked me if
I had any dreams, "not the silly sorts of dreams you have, that's for
sure" I replied. After a chilly silent pause, I added, "the best thing
you could do is sell your damn business; your time for building an
empire is over.." and that was NOT music to his ears either. So I asked
why not have someone else run your business? Then you could sit back,
take the income and begin to relax. But control freaks can't do any of
that, and perhaps the business wasn't worth selling or hiring to a
younger man. He never spoke to me again.

I've seen his wife at the supermarket and she looks ready for the
twilight home; she didn't get the trip overseas back to Sicily they
wanted. Still unhappy after all these years.

Sure I have no stupid dreams. And no cloying shiela hanging around my
neck always wanting more than can be had by hard slog working.
I've got plans though, just to survive. Its enough. I have real friends,
and I enjoy a bicycle. I'm free, and I enjoy working when I do.



Young women are now very good at multitasking, but cannot concentrate on
anything, and a are a pile of bother to employ.
You try to give a job where a woman gets her hands filthy. She isn't
like her mum with floral apron and headscarf.

Hmm. There are two very good young female mechanics at
the local Volvo dealership. One stands in for the foreman
when he is away. No doubt she will become a forewomen (!!)
in her own right when a vacancy ocurrs.

But have you not noticed that servicing Volvos commands a far higher
price than mucking around with toys that audiophiles hate having to pay
for.

Nobody **needs** a tube amp. But they seem to need their Volvo a heck of
a lot more.

Well, the market research we we did, showed there to be
considerable potential building low volume high quality equipment
with bespoke features/options that the larger makers cannot
possibly offer.

"Potential" can mean there is a pie in that there sky.

It has a lot to do with market research.

Ha, and just how does anyone research items that appeal to 0.000001% of
the population?



Yes of course:-) Here in Scandinavia, there is still an
interest in, and a demand for, quality. Chinese cheapo products
are held in low esteem.

Except that when crap is in the shop for 1/4 of the price for what you
make, and the missus controls the purse, what gets purchased?

A large percentage of middle-aged males, middle-class/professional
class have a considerable disposable income. They spend it as they
choose. They also apprecxiate the finer things in life such as Verdier
or SME turntables, and a bottle or Merlot 1994.

But these very guys are being laid off or are **** scared they soon will
be. They have seen their retirement super investment values plummet and
the doctor just told them their psa test results mean they could have
prostate cancer. Their wives are trying to cope with ageing and their
multiple ailments and have become winging old hags.

The idea that they spend a few grand on tube gear "they always wanted"
begins to fade as does their sense of being a man.

The reality of the dudes all hitting sixty is different to those hitting
40 or 50. One can still dream at 50.
At 60 you're past it.



You misunderstand. I was asking for ideas, suggestions, as to
what kind of amp they would like to see. These were mainly
consmetic/layout options and choice of materials.

A leader should know that before he begins. I don't recall Peter Walker
needing a committee to advise him on what the Quad systems he made
needed to include.

Not quite the same thing. He had little or no competion except for
Radford. Now there are 100's of maufacturers from which one can
choose.

In 1950, it was a brave man who tried to set up any business because the
banks were even stingier than I am.
But hundreds did make it very well in many different fields.

Walker may have known all the right people, so selling to the BBC was
possible.

I'f I'd been around in 1950, and aged 25, and knowing what i know now,
I'd have done well.


There is no way to compete with the Chinese on price, but
onhe can shoot them down in flames (literally!) on both build quality
and performance. Measurte the power bandwidth of a Chinese EL34
PP amp at full power Then look at the THD. At frequencies 50Hz
you the meter will probably be off the scale on the 10% rage!!!


Indeed. The Chinese like to fool everyone to get sales. They just don't
understand RDH4, and how to design and build something that really does
the business properly. Their products are nice looking, and the beauty
is only skin deep.
The Melody preamp I am upgrading is a perfect example of what I am
saying. Real crappy circuit, far far heavier and larger than it needs to
be, and with 2c gain linear control. I could say more, but once I have
completely re-wired it and installed a DACT gain attenuator it will then
perform marvellously. It won't be a darn Melody. Good. Its 20kG too
heavy mainly because the 3 PSU filter chokes are huge low resistance
items bigger than a 50W OPT. Utter bull****! The LF noise was appalling
because thew LCLC filter with low value C does not reject mains caused
LF noise.
Filter caps are only 40uF, oily affairs, and bull****. They have ancient
DH triodes used as regulator pass elements. All done wrong, and
ineffective, and working no better than a 5 watt resistor. Currents in
6SN7 are way too low, limited by the capabilities of the 1920 style
regulator. The chokes could have been high resistance types of 1/10 the
weight. 470uF caps would have eliminated any need for chokes and RCRC
would have worked better than what they have. They'd always say the
sound is due to how they have done it but i don't think so. The
distortion and noise was way above anything I make.



Its satisfying work and my customers enjoy the results. They pay
something rather than nothing, so be grateful.
Its better than driving a taxi or washing dishes at a restaurant.

I don't need to do either. I work on tube amps because they
interest me. But a decent workshop costs money, so one cannot
work for nothing.

I have my workshop on my property which I own. The property rates and
water rates are tax deductible. If I had to rent a workshop it would
make me unviable.

If you are wealthy, its a good time to plan a holiday. Maybe you are
the
only one at the resort.
All the girls will crowd around you at the bar. The only bloke with a
loud shirt on.

Don't really go for 100dB shirts:-)

Its a very american thing to be seen wearing a Hiwaian island shirt
while on leave.


I am going to take up the tenor saxophone instead.

It sound like saying "Ladies and Gentlemen, for my next act of masochism
I will blow air down a pipe and make raspy jazz tones".

Oh no:-) Don't get me wrong. I have been a semi-pro
musician all my life. Learning a new instrument is a challenge,
and a saxophone is a very gregarious beast, you see them in
groups of five in all big bands.

I hope the world rewards you.

It's just for pleasure, and intellectual stimulation.
Listen to Paul Gonsalves and you will see what I mean

The sax is a 25 year olds instrument, it screams "I have a dick, see,
right here baby"

And most guys playing one here are dirt poor. They sound like they are
musically wanking. Anyway, all colourful stuff I guess but not really my
favourite. One guy who is good here teaches sax at the local School of
Music.

Good luck.

I began making amps and doing repairs and figured I'd have to carry on
without venture finance and without knowing ppl with good connections in
the business world. Most of these people would be rip off merchants, ie,
professional arsoles. They only want to help if there is a big quid in
it for them without dirtying their hands or raising a sweat.

It's a sad fact of life that dealer's will want 35-40%. They espect you
to supply demo and also stock units, but don't want to pay for anything
until it is sold.

Here they want 50%.

And when I did have an amp or two in the shop here for 2 years, not one
sold, and not one buyer ever tried to contact me directly. The shop
would demonstrate how wonderful tubes made music sound using my gear
then lead the customer over to the Jolidas. The wife of the buyer might
just accept the price of the chinese made Jolida. The staff all knew my
gear was far superior. But as soon as I had a website, I pulled my amps
out of the shop where they were basically abused and ignored.

The shop has been there since 1974, and they survived well selling hi-fi
to incoming young couples settling into Canberra in droves in the 1970s.
All those people used their gear to play romantic music and make love
by. But as time marched on and TV morphed into Home Theatre, all those
people had kids and didn't make love by candlelight and motzart any
more. Their eyes have failed a bit like all the other body bits and now
they all buy the biggest screen that is affordanble and they don't care
about sound quality. They rarely listento music by itself, so
"audio-visual", ie, HT, is what entertains them. HT is about 95% of the
business of the shop, and without HT they'd go broke.

Quite a few shops that sold a similar range of hi-fi have closed.

The fact is that sitting alone listening to music at home and aged above
40 is plain boring to a lot of people.

But fortunately, there are still enough whose main escape from reality
is music. But they are mainly older. Occasionally some keener young
blokes get interested in making a system and nearly all of them become
dissinterested when they get serious with a shiela.

The music takes them to sex, and sex takes them to a family and a family
takes them away from sex and music.

Once I got my house set up and combined music and sex, all was well and
blissful for about 6 months when she who did enjoy it all became a right
bitch. This taught me life was a series of bell curves, the love
response is like that of a bandpass filter.
I did not let she who changed upset me much, I just opened a door like a
gentleman. I saw zero reason to change my liking for music, candlelit
dinners, and so on. The more blithely serene and sure of myself I
became, the more angry she got and the more she wanted to kick all the
cones in of the speakers I made.

If your woman won't let you be a man, you're better off without her.

Unlike many people I knew, I insisted on such ideas be true.

So my message is, marriage and music should go together blissfully. If
not, offer her a divorce. Still, if I had to be married to a woman who
practised sax every other day, i'd have to addapt my ideas if she was
worth it in other ways - and maybe get a pair of better ear plugs.
I did once share my house with a lass of 23 for 10 mths who brought a
piano with her when she came here. I much fell in love with her and the
sound of piano played well on a sunday morning as i awoke.
Unfortunately, she had a real buffoon of a boyfriend. Her bell curves of
romance didn't include me.

Music is best shared I think, and as a man gets older and females become
un-****able and ever so socially fussy, then a man is better off
enjoying companionship with other men. So I listen now with other guys,
and I ride a bike with mainly men in the bunch. Women my age are mainly
terribly dysfunctional so I leave them alone. The few females in the
bunch I ride with are of course much younger, and although untouchable
their presence is a godsend on a sunday morning ride; these rare birds
actually want to DO SOMETHING, and they like men, and their youthful
attitudes match mine.

Its autumn here, and I apologise if i upset those with spring ideas.

Patrick Turner.















Iain

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

It's a common way to set up a company with partners in the UK.
One is (for instance) financial director. He is a person who has
good contacts with banks and financial institutions.

Hmm, fat lot of good that would do these days.

All companies need finance, and it really makes no difference
where it comes from - banks or individual investors, as long as
the price is sustainable. In some instances venture capital may
be appropriate.

Too many people have a dream about a business of their own and borrow
way too much and the cash flow of sales cannot cover the cost of the
loan.

When cash flow is low, one cannot afford a loan at all.



The MD might
be a lawyer (interested in hi-fi) whose wife can look after the
accounts, and so on. But finding the right people with a sufficient
level of motivation and the spare time to get the thing up and
running, is difficult.

Of course, and people have to live, so what they do must bring an
income.

There are many that have an income and want to be involved in
something extra. These are the people to look for.

Yes, and that's the reason why ppl take up selling Amway products. I
have been to one of their propmo meetings and I told the guy who took me
along that I'd never heard a bigger pile of bull**** and lies. He was
surprised. He'd been running an electronics business for 30 years and
couldn't afford any luxuries so he thinks the pyramid system would work
but he had to work to con people into working for almost nothing for him
to get anything. He'd already had one heart attack at 68. He asked me if
I had any dreams, "not the silly sorts of dreams you have, that's for
sure" I replied. After a chilly silent pause, I added, "the best thing
you could do is sell your damn business; your time for building an
empire is over.." and that was NOT music to his ears either. So I asked
why not have someone else run your business? Then you could sit back,
take the income and begin to relax. But control freaks can't do any of
that, and perhaps the business wasn't worth selling or hiring to a
younger man. He never spoke to me again.

I've seen his wife at the supermarket and she looks ready for the
twilight home; she didn't get the trip overseas back to Sicily they
wanted. Still unhappy after all these years.

Sure I have no stupid dreams. And no cloying shiela hanging around my
neck always wanting more than can be had by hard slog working.
I've got plans though, just to survive. Its enough. I have real friends,
and I enjoy a bicycle. I'm free, and I enjoy working when I do.



Young women are now very good at multitasking, but cannot concentrate
on
anything, and a are a pile of bother to employ.
You try to give a job where a woman gets her hands filthy. She isn't
like her mum with floral apron and headscarf.

Hmm. There are two very good young female mechanics at
the local Volvo dealership. One stands in for the foreman
when he is away. No doubt she will become a forewomen (!!)
in her own right when a vacancy ocurrs.

But have you not noticed that servicing Volvos commands a far higher
price than mucking around with toys that audiophiles hate having to pay
for.

Nobody **needs** a tube amp. But they seem to need their Volvo a heck of
a lot more.

Well, the market research we we did, showed there to be
considerable potential building low volume high quality equipment
with bespoke features/options that the larger makers cannot
possibly offer.

"Potential" can mean there is a pie in that there sky.

It has a lot to do with market research.

Ha, and just how does anyone research items that appeal to 0.000001% of
the population?



Yes of course:-) Here in Scandinavia, there is still an
interest in, and a demand for, quality. Chinese cheapo products
are held in low esteem.

Except that when crap is in the shop for 1/4 of the price for what you
make, and the missus controls the purse, what gets purchased?

A large percentage of middle-aged males, middle-class/professional
class have a considerable disposable income. They spend it as they
choose. They also apprecxiate the finer things in life such as Verdier
or SME turntables, and a bottle or Merlot 1994.

But these very guys are being laid off or are **** scared they soon will
be. They have seen their retirement super investment values plummet and
the doctor just told them their psa test results mean they could have
prostate cancer. Their wives are trying to cope with ageing and their
multiple ailments and have become winging old hags.

The idea that they spend a few grand on tube gear "they always wanted"
begins to fade as does their sense of being a man.

The reality of the dudes all hitting sixty is different to those hitting
40 or 50. One can still dream at 50.
At 60 you're past it.



You misunderstand. I was asking for ideas, suggestions, as to
what kind of amp they would like to see. These were mainly
consmetic/layout options and choice of materials.

A leader should know that before he begins. I don't recall Peter Walker
needing a committee to advise him on what the Quad systems he made
needed to include.

Not quite the same thing. He had little or no competion except for
Radford. Now there are 100's of maufacturers from which one can
choose.

In 1950, it was a brave man who tried to set up any business because the
banks were even stingier than I am.
But hundreds did make it very well in many different fields.

Walker may have known all the right people, so selling to the BBC was
possible.

I'f I'd been around in 1950, and aged 25, and knowing what i know now,
I'd have done well.


There is no way to compete with the Chinese on price, but
onhe can shoot them down in flames (literally!) on both build quality
and performance. Measurte the power bandwidth of a Chinese EL34
PP amp at full power Then look at the THD. At frequencies 50Hz
you the meter will probably be off the scale on the 10% rage!!!


Indeed. The Chinese like to fool everyone to get sales. They just don't
understand RDH4, and how to design and build something that really does
the business properly. Their products are nice looking, and the beauty
is only skin deep.
The Melody preamp I am upgrading is a perfect example of what I am
saying. Real crappy circuit, far far heavier and larger than it needs to
be, and with 2c gain linear control. I could say more, but once I have
completely re-wired it and installed a DACT gain attenuator it will then
perform marvellously. It won't be a darn Melody. Good. Its 20kG too
heavy mainly because the 3 PSU filter chokes are huge low resistance
items bigger than a 50W OPT. Utter bull****! The LF noise was appalling
because thew LCLC filter with low value C does not reject mains caused
LF noise.
Filter caps are only 40uF, oily affairs, and bull****. They have ancient
DH triodes used as regulator pass elements. All done wrong, and
ineffective, and working no better than a 5 watt resistor. Currents in
6SN7 are way too low, limited by the capabilities of the 1920 style
regulator. The chokes could have been high resistance types of 1/10 the
weight. 470uF caps would have eliminated any need for chokes and RCRC
would have worked better than what they have. They'd always say the
sound is due to how they have done it but i don't think so. The
distortion and noise was way above anything I make.



Its satisfying work and my customers enjoy the results. They pay
something rather than nothing, so be grateful.
Its better than driving a taxi or washing dishes at a restaurant.

I don't need to do either. I work on tube amps because they
interest me. But a decent workshop costs money, so one cannot
work for nothing.

I have my workshop on my property which I own. The property rates and
water rates are tax deductible. If I had to rent a workshop it would
make me unviable.

If you are wealthy, its a good time to plan a holiday. Maybe you are
the
only one at the resort.
All the girls will crowd around you at the bar. The only bloke with
a
loud shirt on.

Don't really go for 100dB shirts:-)

Its a very american thing to be seen wearing a Hiwaian island shirt
while on leave.


I am going to take up the tenor saxophone instead.

It sound like saying "Ladies and Gentlemen, for my next act of
masochism
I will blow air down a pipe and make raspy jazz tones".

Oh no:-) Don't get me wrong. I have been a semi-pro
musician all my life. Learning a new instrument is a challenge,
and a saxophone is a very gregarious beast, you see them in
groups of five in all big bands.

I hope the world rewards you.

It's just for pleasure, and intellectual stimulation.
Listen to Paul Gonsalves and you will see what I mean

The sax is a 25 year olds instrument, it screams "I have a dick, see,
right here baby"

And most guys playing one here are dirt poor. They sound like they are
musically wanking. Anyway, all colourful stuff I guess but not really my
favourite. One guy who is good here teaches sax at the local School of
Music.

Good luck.

I began making amps and doing repairs and figured I'd have to carry on
without venture finance and without knowing ppl with good connections
in
the business world. Most of these people would be rip off merchants,
ie,
professional arsoles. They only want to help if there is a big quid in
it for them without dirtying their hands or raising a sweat.

It's a sad fact of life that dealer's will want 35-40%. They espect you
to supply demo and also stock units, but don't want to pay for anything
until it is sold.

Here they want 50%.

And when I did have an amp or two in the shop here for 2 years, not one
sold, and not one buyer ever tried to contact me directly. The shop
would demonstrate how wonderful tubes made music sound using my gear
then lead the customer over to the Jolidas. The wife of the buyer might
just accept the price of the chinese made Jolida. The staff all knew my
gear was far superior. But as soon as I had a website, I pulled my amps
out of the shop where they were basically abused and ignored.

The shop has been there since 1974, and they survived well selling hi-fi
to incoming young couples settling into Canberra in droves in the 1970s.
All those people used their gear to play romantic music and make love
by. But as time marched on and TV morphed into Home Theatre, all those
people had kids and didn't make love by candlelight and motzart any
more. Their eyes have failed a bit like all the other body bits and now
they all buy the biggest screen that is affordanble and they don't care
about sound quality. They rarely listento music by itself, so
"audio-visual", ie, HT, is what entertains them. HT is about 95% of the
business of the shop, and without HT they'd go broke.

Quite a few shops that sold a similar range of hi-fi have closed.

The fact is that sitting alone listening to music at home and aged above
40 is plain boring to a lot of people.

But fortunately, there are still enough whose main escape from reality
is music. But they are mainly older. Occasionally some keener young
blokes get interested in making a system and nearly all of them become
dissinterested when they get serious with a shiela.

The music takes them to sex, and sex takes them to a family and a family
takes them away from sex and music.

Once I got my house set up and combined music and sex, all was well and
blissful for about 6 months when she who did enjoy it all became a right
bitch. This taught me life was a series of bell curves, the love
response is like that of a bandpass filter.
I did not let she who changed upset me much, I just opened a door like a
gentleman. I saw zero reason to change my liking for music, candlelit
dinners, and so on. The more blithely serene and sure of myself I
became, the more angry she got and the more she wanted to kick all the
cones in of the speakers I made.

If your woman won't let you be a man, you're better off without her.

Unlike many people I knew, I insisted on such ideas be true.

So my message is, marriage and music should go together blissfully. If
not, offer her a divorce. Still, if I had to be married to a woman who
practised sax every other day, i'd have to addapt my ideas if she was
worth it in other ways - and maybe get a pair of better ear plugs.
I did once share my house with a lass of 23 for 10 mths who brought a
piano with her when she came here. I much fell in love with her and the
sound of piano played well on a sunday morning as i awoke.
Unfortunately, she had a real buffoon of a boyfriend. Her bell curves of
romance didn't include me.

Music is best shared I think, and as a man gets older and females become
un-****able and ever so socially fussy, then a man is better off
enjoying companionship with other men. So I listen now with other guys,
and I ride a bike with mainly men in the bunch. Women my age are mainly
terribly dysfunctional so I leave them alone. The few females in the
bunch I ride with are of course much younger, and although untouchable
their presence is a godsend on a sunday morning ride; these rare birds
actually want to DO SOMETHING, and they like men, and their youthful
attitudes match mine.

Its autumn here, and I apologise if i upset those with spring ideas.

Patrick Turner.















Iain

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


When cash flow is low, one cannot afford a loan at all.

Agreed. It's a double-edged sword. To generate new business,
companies need to invest in R+D for new products - that takes
money. The British car industry is/was a good example.

Sure I have no stupid dreams.

For every one whose business dream is fullfilled, there
are probably ten for whom it ends in disaster. A keen sense
of reality is de rigeur.

And no cloying shiela hanging around my
neck always wanting more than can be had by hard slog working.

You seem to have had bad experiences with the fair
sex. That's a pity. I met the lady who is now my wife whe
she was only 19. She was just about to start at university.
Perhaps its the Scandinavian mentality, but she has always
been ready to pay her way, and often insists that it's "her
treat" when we go out to dinner.


Hmm. There are two very good young female mechanics at
the local Volvo dealership. One stands in for the foreman
when he is away. No doubt she will become a forewomen (!!)
in her own right when a vacancy ocurrs.

But have you not noticed that servicing Volvos commands a far higher
price than mucking around with toys that audiophiles hate having to pay
for.

Yes indeed:-)

Nobody **needs** a tube amp. But they seem to need their Volvo a heck of
a lot more.

That's true also.

"Potential" can mean there is a pie in that there sky.

It has a lot to do with market research.

Ha, and just how does anyone research items that appeal to 0.000001% of
the population?

OK. Let's say that you have five dealers,who estimates that they
each can sell one of your tube amps per month. That's 50 units
a year. Giving the dealer (or better still the customer) a say in the
appearance of the amplifier, sets yhour product apart from the
others and gives you a much better chance of making a sale, by
putting your product in the spotlight. The dealer can say
"I was involved in the design of this product. I had specifically the
needs and tastes of my own customers in mind" The client can
choose chassis colour (the range on anodised shades is huge),
the type of wood used for the side panels, and even the engraving
on the front escutcheon. The front page of the manual says.
"This amplifier serial no XXX built for (customer's name) and
supplied by (dealer's name) on (date)

Research has shown that cosmetics are 40% of a purchase decision.
and most people who have the money for a tube amp like very much
the "bespoke tailoring" approach. They like to be getting something
just a little different (better) than thje standard product.

A large percentage of middle-aged males, middle-class/professional
class have a considerable disposable income. They spend it as they
choose. They also apprecxiate the finer things in life such as Verdier
or SME turntables, and a bottle or Merlot 1994.

But these very guys are being laid off or are **** scared they soon will
be. They have seen their retirement super investment values plummet and
the doctor just told them their psa test results mean they could have
prostate cancer. Their wives are trying to cope with ageing and their
multiple ailments and have become winging old hags.

Your glass seems to be half empty. Mine is half full :-)

The idea that they spend a few grand on tube gear "they always wanted"
begins to fade as does their sense of being a man.

The reality of the dudes all hitting sixty is different to those hitting
40 or 50. One can still dream at 50.
At 60 you're past it.

That was probably nearer the truth a generation ago. Many people
retire at 50 in this part of the world, and start a new phase of their
life without the ball and chain of bank loans and career responsibilities.
They have both money and leasure time, a powerful combination.
The world is their oyster.

I remember when I was a kid that a grandfather was an old man
with a watch chain in the waistcoat pocket, sitting in a rocking chair,
with his false teeth in a glass besides his bed. Most of them had
been through two world wars as infantry men, and as the result
of a hard physical working life were totally knackered. They were
probably only just in their sixties. Things have changed in a generation
or two.

In 1950, it was a brave man who tried to set up any business because the
banks were even stingier than I am.
But hundreds did make it very well in many different fields.

Yes. My father was one of them. Britain was on her knees at the
end of WW2, but it was a time of great opportunity for those with
good ideas, who were willing to work hard to turn their ideas into
reality.

Walker may have known all the right people, so selling to the BBC was
possible.

You or I or anyone else could sell to the BBC if we had a product
that they wanted to buy. A former Decca service engineer and
colleague of mine builds mic preamps. The name of almost every
broadcasting company within the EBU can be found on his client list.

I'f I'd been around in 1950, and aged 25, and knowing what i know now,
I'd have done well.

Ahaa. That's "old heads on young shoulders" (knowing then what I know
now) Sorry, that fails the reality check:-))


I have my workshop on my property which I own. The property rates and
water rates are tax deductible. If I had to rent a workshop it would
make me unviable.

You are lucky. Here a clear demarkation is made between domestic
and commercial/industrial premises, althouh one could have an amp
workshop in the basement I suppose.

The sax is a 25 year olds instrument, it screams "I have a dick, see,
right here baby"

Hmm. Maybe you have a different perception. My favourite
saxophone players were all middle aged (Harrry Carney,
Johnny Hodges etc) when they were at their best. But the
versatility of the saxophone means that there are as many
styles of playing a there are players, so that there is of course
plenty of room for the category you mention above. There
are many many very good young players also. Take a look at:
the Tim Jensen clip:

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearc...ab=wv&start=20

Also, note the average age of the guys in the band!!!

And most guys playing one here are dirt poor.

I am not taking up the saxophone as a source of income.
I have no misconceptions about music as a profession -
my father and my brother were both very talented classical
musicians. I was less talented, and preferring to eat three
square meals a day decided to make my career on the other
side of the studio window - in the control room.


It's a sad fact of life that dealer's will want 35-40%. They espect you
to supply demo and also stock units, but don't want to pay for anything
until it is sold.

Here they want 50%.

Using the normal rules of thumb and the 2:3 or 2:5 ratio, I would
think it is impossible to build anything and sell it at a reasonable
profit and a sensible price with 50% for the dealer and also
VAT. A good friend of mine who was what you would call a
"bean counter", Paatrick, told that if you have the economies
of small-scale audio manufacture correct you should be able
to build three more units with the money made from selling three.
With some hand built-products you can build five more for two sold.

And when I did have an amp or two in the shop here for 2 years, not one
sold, and not one buyer ever tried to contact me directly. The shop
would demonstrate how wonderful tubes made music sound using my gear
then lead the customer over to the Jolidas. The wife of the buyer might
just accept the price of the chinese made Jolida. The staff all knew my
gear was far superior. But as soon as I had a website, I pulled my amps
out of the shop where they were basically abused and ignored.

It is generally agreed that supplying to dealers "on account"
is not good for their motivation. Better to get them to pay
half the dealer price up front when they get the unit. This
gives them some incentive to work to get the unit sold.

Quite a few shops that sold a similar range of hi-fi have closed.

Yes. It's a changing market. There is now far more competition
for the disposable income. In the 60s, hi.fi didn't have competition
from DVD, HT etc, although cinema was strong.

The fact is that sitting alone listening to music at home and aged above
40 is plain boring to a lot of people.

Yes that's true. Very few people seem to be able to sit still for
32 bars before opening their traps:-)


But fortunately, there are still enough whose main escape from reality
is music. But they are mainly older. Occasionally some keener young
blokes get interested in making a system and nearly all of them become
dissinterested when they get serious with a shiela.

The music takes them to sex, and sex takes them to a family and a family
takes them away from sex and music.

:-)) How true!


Once I got my house set up and combined music and sex, all was well and
blissful for about 6 months when she who did enjoy it all became a right
bitch. This taught me life was a series of bell curves, the love
response is like that of a bandpass filter.
I did not let she who changed upset me much, I just opened a door like a
gentleman. I saw zero reason to change my liking for music, candlelit
dinners, and so on. The more blithely serene and sure of myself I
became, the more angry she got and the more she wanted to kick all the
cones in of the speakers I made.

You seem to have been unlucky in love:-)

Iain

[Iain Churches[_2_]]

Sorry Patrick. I sent the link to the wrong clip.
Tim Jensen is at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiK4msuZ4pQ


Iain

[Patrick Turner]

Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


When cash flow is low, one cannot afford a loan at all.

Agreed. It's a double-edged sword. To generate new business,
companies need to invest in R+D for new products - that takes
money. The British car industry is/was a good example.

Sure I have no stupid dreams.

For every one whose business dream is fullfilled, there
are probably ten for whom it ends in disaster. A keen sense
of reality is de rigeur.

And no cloying shiela hanging around my
neck always wanting more than can be had by hard slog working.

You seem to have had bad experiences with the fair
sex. That's a pity. I met the lady who is now my wife whe
she was only 19. She was just about to start at university.
Perhaps its the Scandinavian mentality, but she has always
been ready to pay her way, and often insists that it's "her
treat" when we go out to dinner.

Betina Arndt is a sex therapist in Oz. She's recently written a
controversial book based on the sex diaries of about 98 people and
basically, Oz women are NOT a very horny lot, and they all seem to have
sexual bell curves, hot before children arrive, luke warm just after,
cool into middle age and -273C by 55. Over 50% of first mariages end in
divorce with seconds often having a worse rate of survival and of course
the de-facto rate of break up is even higher.

I suggest you aquaint yourself with the facts of life by Googling Betina
Arndt, and some basics about her latest book of bull**** about the wars
blokes and shielas have over sex; cold miserable cold wars they are as
people age because they are forced to weigh up having a breakup and how
they'll go with the financial outcome against the freedom they'll get
when they ditch the man they have begun to hate.

The hate and love centres in human brains are close to each other.....

It NOT a pity that I avoided spending any time longer than a month where
she had become a winging bitch and I hadn't changed at all.

I am so happy to have NOT married any of the women I saw marry some of
my friends.

Married people find it hard to understand those who ain't married....

Hmm. There are two very good young female mechanics at
the local Volvo dealership. One stands in for the foreman
when he is away. No doubt she will become a forewomen (!!)
in her own right when a vacancy ocurrs.

But have you not noticed that servicing Volvos commands a far higher
price than mucking around with toys that audiophiles hate having to pay
for.

Yes indeed:-)

Nobody **needs** a tube amp. But they seem to need their Volvo a heck of
a lot more.

That's true also.

"Potential" can mean there is a pie in that there sky.

It has a lot to do with market research.

Ha, and just how does anyone research items that appeal to 0.000001% of
the population?

OK. Let's say that you have five dealers,who estimates that they
each can sell one of your tube amps per month. That's 50 units
a year. Giving the dealer (or better still the customer) a say in the
appearance of the amplifier, sets yhour product apart from the
others and gives you a much better chance of making a sale, by
putting your product in the spotlight. The dealer can say
"I was involved in the design of this product. I had specifically the
needs and tastes of my own customers in mind" The client can
choose chassis colour (the range on anodised shades is huge),
the type of wood used for the side panels, and even the engraving
on the front escutcheon. The front page of the manual says.
"This amplifier serial no XXX built for (customer's name) and
supplied by (dealer's name) on (date)

Every amp I have built each year is different to any before.

Sometimes customers want various peculiar features and colour maybe but
most don't care about the cosmetics.

They want relability and musicality.

If you allow customers to dictate the finishes, the cost can go way too
high for a one off.



Research has shown that cosmetics are 40% of a purchase decision.

Not with the kind of customers I get.


and most people who have the money for a tube amp like very much
the "bespoke tailoring" approach. They like to be getting something
just a little different (better) than thje standard product.

Usually what a customer wants can be summed up after a couple of days of
thought and described in one email to the customer when a deposit is
asked for.

Endless discussions are not endured, and basic quality will always be
around what already is shown at a website.

Blah blah has to be minimised.



A large percentage of middle-aged males, middle-class/professional
class have a considerable disposable income. They spend it as they
choose. They also apprecxiate the finer things in life such as Verdier
or SME turntables, and a bottle or Merlot 1994.

But these very guys are being laid off or are **** scared they soon will
be. They have seen their retirement super investment values plummet and
the doctor just told them their psa test results mean they could have
prostate cancer. Their wives are trying to cope with ageing and their
multiple ailments and have become winging old hags.

Your glass seems to be half empty. Mine is half full :-)

Well, your'e the one thinking about playing sax; I'm way too busy with
orders.

I understand the real world and when i describe it they tell me I'm
negative. I've been copping ther criticism for 42 years. I will still
say water naturally runs down hill. An economic investment advisor will
tell you no, it will run uphill, and more runs down into your pocket
after a little bit is enticed to run uphill. F***kn Bull**** I will say,
and then he says I'm negative.....

I don't give a ****.....

The idea that they spend a few grand on tube gear "they always wanted"
begins to fade as does their sense of being a man.

The reality of the dudes all hitting sixty is different to those hitting
40 or 50. One can still dream at 50.
At 60 you're past it.

That was probably nearer the truth a generation ago. Many people
retire at 50 in this part of the world, and start a new phase of their
life without the ball and chain of bank loans and career responsibilities.
They have both money and leasure time, a powerful combination.
The world is their oyster.

And the oyster is owned by their missus.


I remember when I was a kid that a grandfather was an old man
with a watch chain in the waistcoat pocket, sitting in a rocking chair,
with his false teeth in a glass besides his bed. Most of them had
been through two world wars as infantry men, and as the result
of a hard physical working life were totally knackered. They were
probably only just in their sixties. Things have changed in a generation
or two.

It wasn't the hard yakka that left them feeling so ****ed. It was all
the boozing and smoking and terrible habits and life choices thay made.

There are plenty of people just like you say, knackered at 60, and they
are fat, lazy, and full of bad habits and genes that pre-dispose them to
age fast.

In 1950, it was a brave man who tried to set up any business because the
banks were even stingier than I am.
But hundreds did make it very well in many different fields.

Yes. My father was one of them. Britain was on her knees at the
end of WW2, but it was a time of great opportunity for those with
good ideas, who were willing to work hard to turn their ideas into
reality.

Walker may have known all the right people, so selling to the BBC was
possible.

You or I or anyone else could sell to the BBC if we had a product
that they wanted to buy. A former Decca service engineer and
colleague of mine builds mic preamps. The name of almost every
broadcasting company within the EBU can be found on his client list.



I'f I'd been around in 1950, and aged 25, and knowing what i know now,
I'd have done well.

Ahaa. That's "old heads on young shoulders" (knowing then what I know
now) Sorry, that fails the reality check:-))

Well, I knew 2 guys who at 19 gave up study to get qualified because
they got too busy in their daily work lives because business came
naturally to them and by 25 had a dozen people working for them while I
was just an employee and still studying.

Neither ride a bike. Maybe they are dead.

Making money was everything....

I have my workshop on my property which I own. The property rates and
water rates are tax deductible. If I had to rent a workshop it would
make me unviable.

You are lucky. Here a clear demarkation is made between domestic
and commercial/industrial premises, althouh one could have an amp
workshop in the basement I suppose.

Or in a bedroom of a flat if need be.

One guy I know who has never owned his own home turned over $50,000 in
tube amps in 1998 by working hard on the kitchen table.


The sax is a 25 year olds instrument, it screams "I have a dick, see,
right here baby"

Hmm. Maybe you have a different perception. My favourite
saxophone players were all middle aged (Harrry Carney,
Johnny Hodges etc) when they were at their best. But the
versatility of the saxophone means that there are as many
styles of playing a there are players, so that there is of course
plenty of room for the category you mention above. There
are many many very good young players also. Take a look at:
the Tim Jensen clip:

Of course. I was jesting about sax playing being a scream for sex....



http://video.google.co.uk/videosearc...ab=wv&start=20

Also, note the average age of the guys in the band!!!

And most guys playing one here are dirt poor.

I am not taking up the saxophone as a source of income.
I have no misconceptions about music as a profession -
my father and my brother were both very talented classical
musicians. I was less talented, and preferring to eat three
square meals a day decided to make my career on the other
side of the studio window - in the control room.

well, nothing to stop you making tube gear for yourself or a few
others....

It's a sad fact of life that dealer's will want 35-40%. They espect you
to supply demo and also stock units, but don't want to pay for anything
until it is sold.

Here they want 50%.

Using the normal rules of thumb and the 2:3 or 2:5 ratio, I would
think it is impossible to build anything and sell it at a reasonable
profit and a sensible price with 50% for the dealer and also
VAT. A good friend of mine who was what you would call a
"bean counter", Paatrick, told that if you have the economies
of small-scale audio manufacture correct you should be able
to build three more units with the money made from selling three.
With some hand built-products you can build five more for two sold.

No, you need to be able to make 4 units after selling two you've made.

It never works out......

You make one, make a big impression, demonstrate to an audiophile club,
get a rave review on the day from them, then nothing.

Then you find they are largely a bunch of nit picking conservative old
farts allergic to spending any portion of their share income unless its
for brandname stuff which will hold its value.

But fortunately, I know a bunch of people who see past the major western
nation brandnames, and they look for better features such as reliablity
and musicality and they don't like being bled dry by the big brandname
prices or by chinese goods being sold at outrageous prices.



And when I did have an amp or two in the shop here for 2 years, not one
sold, and not one buyer ever tried to contact me directly. The shop
would demonstrate how wonderful tubes made music sound using my gear
then lead the customer over to the Jolidas. The wife of the buyer might
just accept the price of the chinese made Jolida. The staff all knew my
gear was far superior. But as soon as I had a website, I pulled my amps
out of the shop where they were basically abused and ignored.

It is generally agreed that supplying to dealers "on account"
is not good for their motivation. Better to get them to pay
half the dealer price up front when they get the unit. This
gives them some incentive to work to get the unit sold.

Ha, try telling that to the main local store owners here.

Unless they know its very easy to sell something they NEVER ever pay
until its been sold.

Mostly the shops buy thing low to sell high and things that have gotten
a reasonable magazine review which of course cost venture capital by the
maker.

ALL COSTS of sales, promotions and shop spoilage are on the maker.

Many Oz makers have refused to ever try to sell through the shops.

They loose 60% of what they could possibly get.



Quite a few shops that sold a similar range of hi-fi have closed.

Yes. It's a changing market. There is now far more competition
for the disposable income. In the 60s, hi.fi didn't have competition
from DVD, HT etc, although cinema was strong.

The fact is that sitting alone listening to music at home and aged above
40 is plain boring to a lot of people.

Yes that's true. Very few people seem to be able to sit still for
32 bars before opening their traps:-)


But fortunately, there are still enough whose main escape from reality
is music. But they are mainly older. Occasionally some keener young
blokes get interested in making a system and nearly all of them become
dissinterested when they get serious with a shiela.

The music takes them to sex, and sex takes them to a family and a family
takes them away from sex and music.

:-)) How true!


Once I got my house set up and combined music and sex, all was well and
blissful for about 6 months when she who did enjoy it all became a right
bitch. This taught me life was a series of bell curves, the love
response is like that of a bandpass filter.
I did not let she who changed upset me much, I just opened a door like a
gentleman. I saw zero reason to change my liking for music, candlelit
dinners, and so on. The more blithely serene and sure of myself I
became, the more angry she got and the more she wanted to kick all the
cones in of the speakers I made.

You seem to have been unlucky in love:-)

No, I was VERY lucky, because instead of hanging around and trying to
fight a war almost nobody including her family agreed was worth
fighting, she went out the door late one night and I was well rid of
her.

Getting married can be one of the most unfortunate things that can
happen to a nice young man. Hearing about someone getting engaged is
reason to become much alarmed about the future safety of the bloke.
Never celebrate such a thing.

I was never ever to become a placcid little lap dog and slave, and never
to be mentally castrated by a shiela. I was naturally able to thwart the
most determined female attempts at reducing me.

To be lucky in love isn't a terribly wonderful thing to brag about. The
bills one has to pay will proove it.

I am very pleased to be able to say I have minimized unfortunate doings
with shielas, and maximised the few that were fortunate.

After I was forced to get a lawyer to un-marry me from my wayward ex, I
saw just how lucky i was to have the foresight to stay cool, calm, and
composed while many cases of marriage breakup around me were trying
tales of woe and vales of tears and financial ruin.

It was my generation who invented the "me" generation, and nobody was to
easily get away giving me crap. It meant the sun wasn't allowed to go
down on my anger, and issues of disagreement were worked out before
proceeding further. Well, there's only so much a bitch can take of
*that* sort of thing!

Fortunately, I found a few naturally joyful ladies along the way after
the ex left.

But joy in females becomes rare over 50; Betina says women should just
say yes anyway, but yes to what? crappy love? watered down lust? kinda
boring really.

Don't read her book. Its equivalent to me writing the world's most
easily written book titled "50 reasons why I didn't get laid last
night".

I'd hate to inflict such a terribly depressing book upon the world.

And I do know I will never hear these words...
"jus' lie down here luvvy, it won't cost yer anyfink".

I'm too busy working to get people towards more music and riding a bike
to bother with much else.

Patrick Turner.



Iain