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#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
Is there any big difference? They've got pretty much the same specs,
but the Delta has a breakout box with 1/4" inputs (and nothing else on the card), while the 2496 has stuff coming right out of the card. Bottom line, is the quality going to be the same? |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
"gjsmo" wrote in message
Is there any big difference? They've got pretty much the same specs, but the Delta has a breakout box with 1/4" inputs (and nothing else on the card), while the 2496 has stuff coming right out of the card. Bottom line, is the quality going to be the same? IME the Delta 66 is you say very comparable in some ways to the AP 2496. For example, they were both based on AKM converters and VIA's Envy24 chipset. Despite the connectors on the Delta 66 breakout box, both are electronically unbalanced. If memory serves, the Delta 66 is designed for standard audio production signal voltages in and out, while the AP 2496 is more oriented towards consumer signal levels which are 6-10 dB lower. I don't know if this is due to the use of different converters or the lower signal levels, but IME the Delta 66 is the quieter card. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
On Sep 3, 1:15*pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"gjsmo" wrote in message Is there any big difference? They've got pretty much the same specs, but the Delta has a breakout box with 1/4" inputs (and nothing else on the card), while the 2496 has stuff coming right out of the card. Bottom line, is the quality going to be the same? IME the Delta 66 is you say very comparable in some ways to the AP 2496. For example, they were both based on AKM converters and VIA's Envy24 chipset. Despite the connectors on the Delta 66 breakout box, both are electronically unbalanced. *If memory serves, the Delta 66 is designed for standard audio production signal voltages in and out, while the AP 2496 is more oriented towards consumer signal levels which are 6-10 dB lower. *I don't know if this is due to the use of different converters or the lower signal levels, but IME the Delta 66 is the quieter card. So there is a difference. They're about the same price, and I should have enough money for them soon. I was actually going to the get Delta 44 - which is cheaper. Seems like it should be the same hardware, though. If I've got 1/4 jacks coming out a mixer, that should be +4dB, right? Also, would I be able to plug a guitar directly into the Delta breakout box? |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
On Sep 3, 1:13*pm, gjsmo wrote:
On Sep 3, 1:15*pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote: "gjsmo" wrote in message Is there any big difference? They've got pretty much the same specs, but the Delta has a breakout box with 1/4" inputs (and nothing else on the card), while the 2496 has stuff coming right out of the card. Bottom line, is the quality going to be the same? IME the Delta 66 is you say very comparable in some ways to the AP 2496.. For example, they were both based on AKM converters and VIA's Envy24 chipset. Despite the connectors on the Delta 66 breakout box, both are electronically unbalanced. *If memory serves, the Delta 66 is designed for standard audio production signal voltages in and out, while the AP 2496 is more oriented towards consumer signal levels which are 6-10 dB lower. *I don't know if this is due to the use of different converters or the lower signal levels, but IME the Delta 66 is the quieter card. So there is a difference. They're about the same price, and I should have enough money for them soon. I was actually going to the get Delta 44 - which is cheaper. Seems like it should be the same hardware, though. If I've got 1/4 jacks coming out a mixer, that should be +4dB, right? Also, would I be able to plug a guitar directly into the Delta breakout box? I think that pretty much depends on your mixer and the outputs you choose...check your specs. -CS |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
gjsmo wrote:
So there is a difference. They're about the same price, and I should have enough money for them soon. I was actually going to the get Delta 44 - which is cheaper. Seems like it should be the same hardware, though. I wouldn't count on anything being "the same" unless it has the same model number, and even then I wouldn't be too sure. The Delta is analog I/O only, the 2496 has one analog pair and one digital pair of inputs and outputs. The connectors are different, and, although not specified, as Arny suggests, I would speculate that the nominal input and output levels are different. If I've got 1/4 jacks coming out a mixer, that should be +4dB, right? Depends on the mixer. Look in your manual. The Delta accommodates +4 and -10 analog I/O. Also, would I be able to plug a guitar directly into the Delta breakout box? Sure, but you probably wouldn't be very impressed with the sound. Those aren't designed to be instrument inputs and you'd probably find the record level to be low and the sound to be pretty dull. But you'd get something out of it. The Audiophile is probably just as incompatible. According to the M-Audio web site, the Delta is $100 more than the Audiophile. If you've found them both at the same price, you're probably looking at somebody's closeout. Nothing wrong with that as long as it's legitimate. Since you're planning on using it with a mixer, unless you have a need for digital I/O, I'd go for the Delta if you can afford it. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
On Sep 3, 4:35*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
gjsmo wrote: So there is a difference. They're about the same price, and I should have enough money for them soon. I was actually going to the get Delta 44 - which is cheaper. Seems like it should be the same hardware, though. I wouldn't count on anything being "the same" unless it has the same model number, and even then I wouldn't be too sure. I think I read that the Delta line is all the same stuff, just different numbers of I/O. The Delta is analog I/O only, the 2496 has one analog pair and one digital pair of inputs and outputs. The connectors are different, and, although not specified, as Arny suggests, I would speculate that the nominal input and output levels are different. If I've got 1/4 jacks coming out a mixer, that should be +4dB, right? Depends on the mixer. Look in your manual. The Delta accommodates +4 and -10 analog I/O. Well that's nice. Don't know where the manual is, but it's a Behringer XENYX 802 - I'd be using it just for pre-amps (and possibly some EQ) Also, would I be able to plug a guitar directly into the Delta breakout box? Sure, but you probably wouldn't be very impressed with the sound. Those aren't designed to be instrument inputs and you'd probably find the record level to be low and the sound to be pretty dull. But you'd get something out of it. The Audiophile is probably just as incompatible. Ah. Thought that might be the case. I've done it before with a mixer (plugging into a non-preamped input) and the sound is plenty good, but it has to be cranked to max. The problem goes away if I use a pedal, since that's sort of like a pre-amp. Is there a transformer (or something else) that will raise the input to an acceptable level, without being a full-blown preamp? According to the M-Audio web site, the Delta is $100 more than the Audiophile. If you've found them both at the same price, you're probably looking at somebody's closeout. Nothing wrong with that as long as it's legitimate. Since you're planning on using it with a mixer, unless you have a need for digital I/O, I'd go for the Delta if you can afford it. It was Guitar Center. Both were about $150. And I actually won't have digital I/O... so the AP 2496 is out. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson I have a feeling this is just what I'm trying to do. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
"gjsmo" wrote in message
On Sep 3, 1:15 pm, "Arny Krueger" wrote: "gjsmo" wrote in message Is there any big difference? They've got pretty much the same specs, but the Delta has a breakout box with 1/4" inputs (and nothing else on the card), while the 2496 has stuff coming right out of the card. Bottom line, is the quality going to be the same? IME the Delta 66 is you say very comparable in some ways to the AP 2496. For example, they were both based on AKM converters and VIA's Envy24 chipset. Despite the connectors on the Delta 66 breakout box, both are electronically unbalanced. If memory serves, the Delta 66 is designed for standard audio production signal voltages in and out, while the AP 2496 is more oriented towards consumer signal levels which are 6-10 dB lower. I don't know if this is due to the use of different converters or the lower signal levels, but IME the Delta 66 is the quieter card. So there is a difference. They're about the same price, and I should have enough money for them soon. I was actually going to the get Delta 44 - which is cheaper. Seems like it should be the same hardware, though. If I've got 1/4 jacks coming out a mixer, that should be +4dB, right? Also, would I be able to plug a guitar directly into the Delta breakout box? AP 2496 Appendix A - Technical Specs Analog Audio Peak Analog Input Signal: +2dBV. Peak Analog Output Signal: +2dBV (Consumer setting), -4dBV (-10dBV setting). Max Converter Data Width: 24 bits. Dynamic Range: Outputs: 104dB (a-weighted). Inputs: 100.4dB (a-weighted). THD (at 0dBFS): less than 0.002%, Frequency Response: 22Hz - 22kHz, -0.4,-0.4dB. Input Impedance: 10k ohms minimum. Connectors: Gold-plated RCA female, on PCI card. Delta 66 Appendix A - Technical Specs Appendix A - Technical Specs Analog Audio Peak Analog Input Signal: +14dBu (+4dBu setting), +6dBV (Consumer setting), 0dBV (-10dBV setting). Peak Analog Output Signal: +14dBu (+4dBu setting), +6dBV (Consumer setting). 0dBV (-10dBV setting) Dynamic Range: Outputs: 103dB (a-weighted), Inputs: 99dB (a-weighted) THD (at 0dBFS): Outputs: less than 0.0015%, Inputs: less than 0.0024% Frequency Response: 22Hz - 22kHz, -0.3,-0.2dB Input Impedance: 10k ohms minimum Input Connectors: 1/4" female TRS-type, balanced or unbalanced Output Connectors: 1/4" female TRS-type, balanced or unbalanced Note the differences in analog input and output signal levels. The Deltat 66 is clearly better suited for use with audio production equipment. However, the AP 2496 might be the better tool for interfacing with the RCA input/output jacks on some consoles. |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
"gjsmo" wrote in message
On Sep 3, 4:35 pm, Mike Rivers wrote: gjsmo wrote: So there is a difference. They're about the same price, and I should have enough money for them soon. I was actually going to the get Delta 44 - which is cheaper. Seems like it should be the same hardware, though. I wouldn't count on anything being "the same" unless it has the same model number, and even then I wouldn't be too sure. I think I read that the Delta line is all the same stuff, just different numbers of I/O. The Delta is analog I/O only, the 2496 has one analog pair and one digital pair of inputs and outputs. The connectors are different, and, although not specified, as Arny suggests, I would speculate that the nominal input and output levels are different. If I've got 1/4 jacks coming out a mixer, that should be +4dB, right? Depends on the mixer. Look in your manual. The Delta accommodates +4 and -10 analog I/O. Well that's nice. Don't know where the manual is, but it's a Behringer XENYX 802 - I'd be using it just for pre-amps (and possibly some EQ) If you're going to use the RCA input and output jacks on the Xenyx 802, then the AP 2496 might be the better choice. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
Arny Krueger wrote:
Delta 66 Appendix A - Technical Specs Appendix A - Technical Specs Analog Audio Peak Analog Input Signal: +14dBu (+4dBu setting), +6dBV (Consumer setting), 0dBV (-10dBV setting). Peak Analog Output Signal: +14dBu (+4dBu setting), +6dBV (Consumer setting). 0dBV (-10dBV setting) Note that the maximum input level is 6 dB below the maximum output level of your typical "+4" mixer of today. From the Xenix 802 spec sheet, the maximum output level is +22 dBu, so the Delta will clip 6 dB sooner than the mixer. Probably output level of the Delta will be 6 dB lower than the mixer would prefer. But that's kind of the way it is these days. You just have to know your equipment. And why do you keep writing about the Delta 66 when he's asking about the 44? -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
On Sep 3, 11:12*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: Delta 66 *Appendix A - Technical Specs Appendix A - Technical Specs Analog Audio Peak Analog Input Signal: +14dBu (+4dBu setting), +6dBV (Consumer setting), 0dBV (-10dBV setting). Peak Analog Output Signal: +14dBu (+4dBu setting), +6dBV (Consumer setting). 0dBV (-10dBV setting) Note that the maximum input level is 6 dB below the maximum output level of your typical "+4" mixer of today. From the Xenix 802 spec sheet, the maximum output level is +22 dBu, so the Delta will clip 6 dB sooner than the mixer. Probably output level of the Delta will be 6 dB lower than the mixer would prefer. But that's kind of the way it is these days. You just have to know your equipment. And why do you keep writing about the Delta 66 when he's asking about the 44? -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson So, if I've got this right... When my mixer shows -6dB (it's a 4-LED scale - too tiny for me, really), the Delta will effectively be seeing 0dB? I seem to remember seeing that with 24-bit converters, it's best to have around 12dB headroom, because you don't have to worry about "hiss" or the quality of 16-bit audio. I'd love to take advantage of that, because even with my digital stuff, I'm in the habit of asking people (ok, my guitarist) to play "as loud as you can" so that I know it will never clip, but be as high as possible (the recorder is CD quality). |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
gjsmo wrote:
So, if I've got this right... When my mixer shows -6dB (it's a 4-LED scale - too tiny for me, really), the Delta will effectively be seeing 0dB? The metering on your console is probably average-reading, the and metering on the Delta is peak-reading, so they won't agree anyway. Just watch the digital levels and everything will be fine. Your worries come when the console clips _before_ the converters. I seem to remember seeing that with 24-bit converters, it's best to have around 12dB headroom, because you don't have to worry about "hiss" or the quality of 16-bit audio. I'd love to take advantage of that, because even with my digital stuff, I'm in the habit of asking people (ok, my guitarist) to play "as loud as you can" so that I know it will never clip, but be as high as possible (the recorder is CD quality). Even with 16-bit converters, 12 dB of headroom is not so bad. At least 6 dB would be reasonable. (And we're talking about peak levels here). --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
gjsmo wrote:
So, if I've got this right... When my mixer shows -6dB (it's a 4-LED scale - too tiny for me, really), the Delta will effectively be seeing 0dB? I wouldn't make a guess. I'd make a measurement. But if your mixer looks like the one in the picture of the web site, you don't have a -6 LED, but you have a +6 LED. If the 0 LED is really +4 dBu out, then when the +6 LED lights, the record level from the Delta will be -4 dBFS. I would consider the +6 LED flashing occasionally to be as hot as you should get giving the metering on that mixer. But only if the meter calibration follows the "0=+4" convention. "Effectively" really isn't the right way to look at it. I seem to remember seeing that with 24-bit converters, it's best to have around 12dB headroom, because you don't have to worry about "hiss" or the quality of 16-bit audio. I wouldn't attach those numbers to it, but it's pretty well understood that you can be more conservative with record level with 24-bit recording because you still have plenty of resolution when your peaks don't go above -10 dBFS. But if you record this way, you WILL worry that your levels are too low because (a) the squiggles on the waveform display won't be very wide and (b) when you play back the recording through something with a meter, the meter won't go up very far. You can fix that in post-production but it WILL bother you. You'll want to know why your levels "aren't hot enough." even with my digital stuff, I'm in the habit of asking people (ok, my guitarist) to play "as loud as you can" so that I know it will never clip, but be as high as possible (the recorder is CD quality). It's a good idea to get them to play or sing as loud as they can so you can check levels. Just don't set the level so that it just barely doesn't go to full scale, set it 6-10 dB lower. Or if you're listening to "normal" volume playing, set it so that the peaks are between -20 and -16. That's looking at a digital meter, not the LEDs on the mixer. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#13
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Difference between M-Audio 2496 and Delta 44
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: Delta 66 Appendix A - Technical Specs Appendix A - Technical Specs Analog Audio Peak Analog Input Signal: +14dBu (+4dBu setting), +6dBV (Consumer setting), 0dBV (-10dBV setting). Peak Analog Output Signal: +14dBu (+4dBu setting), +6dBV (Consumer setting). 0dBV (-10dBV setting) Note that the maximum input level is 6 dB below the maximum output level of your typical "+4" mixer of today. From the Xenix 802 spec sheet, the maximum output level is +22 dBu, so the Delta will clip 6 dB sooner than the mixer. Probably output level of the Delta will be 6 dB lower than the mixer would prefer. But that's kind of the way it is these days. You just have to know your equipment. And why do you keep writing about the Delta 66 when he's asking about the 44? The Delta 66 is identical to the Delta 66 except for the SP/DIF I/O on the Delta 66. If memory serves, they are built on the same board, but the Delta 44 board is unpopulated in the relevant areas. |
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