[Justin]

Hello everyone! I am a newcomer to the world of tube audio. I've
loved my Peavey Classic 30 guitar amplifier for the last 6 years and
I'm looking into getting started in the world of tube stereos. I know
a little bit about amplifiers (I'm a recent EE grad) and I collect
vinyl as well.

I'm considering purchasing the amplifier listed he

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nice-300B-6CA7...QQcmdZViewItem

I was drawn to this amp because it is integrated (I don't currently
have the funds to purchase a
preamp and power amp combo - but I would like an all-tube sound),
class-A, has all-tube
rectification, point-to-point wiring, and comes with electro-harmonix
tubes in the preamp stage.

Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions about this amp? I realize it
is Chinese and a USA-made amp would be better, but of course this
contributes to the lower price. I also realize I will probably have to
purchase a phono preamp to hook my record player to this amp
effectively. Anyway, suggestions/opinions/criticisms anyone?

[Trevor Wilson]

"Justin" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello everyone! I am a newcomer to the world of tube audio. I've
loved my Peavey Classic 30 guitar amplifier for the last 6 years and
I'm looking into getting started in the world of tube stereos. I know
a little bit about amplifiers (I'm a recent EE grad) and I collect
vinyl as well.

**Then you need to be ashamed of yourself. What speakers are you using? THAT
should determine your choice of amplifier, not all the other bull****.


I'm considering purchasing the amplifier listed he

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nice-300B-6CA7...QQcmdZViewItem

I was drawn to this amp because it is integrated (I don't currently
have the funds to purchase a
preamp and power amp combo - but I would like an all-tube sound),
class-A, has all-tube
rectification, point-to-point wiring, and comes with electro-harmonix
tubes in the preamp stage.

**Big whoop. What are the output transformers like? All the rest is smoke
and mirrors.


Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions about this amp? I realize it
is Chinese and a USA-made amp would be better, but of course this
contributes to the lower price. I also realize I will probably have to
purchase a phono preamp to hook my record player to this amp
effectively. Anyway, suggestions/opinions/criticisms anyone?


**What do YOU think about it? Do YOU like the sound? Or are you seriously
considering purcahsing an audio product without first auditioning it?
Really? Sheesh! Here's a couple of bits you should be looking at:

"Heavy duty output transformers which are hand made of Z11 /0.35mm thickness
EI plate and wounded with oxygen-free copper wire...."


The output transformer is THE fundamental part affecting the performance of
any tube amp, yet the manufacturer has informed you of virtually nothing
about this very important item.

"Of course, better than other famous brand."

Oh well, that's it then. You'd better buy it, because it is "better than
other famous brand."

What were those words again?

"A fool and his money are easily parted."

Why the Hell would you buy any audio product without first auditioning that
product in your own system?


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Andre Jute]

Justin wrote:
Hello everyone! I am a newcomer to the world of tube audio. I've
loved my Peavey Classic 30 guitar amplifier for the last 6 years and
I'm looking into getting started in the world of tube stereos. I know
a little bit about amplifiers (I'm a recent EE grad) and I collect
vinyl as well.

I'm considering purchasing the amplifier listed he

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nice-300B-6CA7...QQcmdZViewItem

Yo, Justin, welcome! Don't let the choleric mouthfoamers like Wilson
put you off; they count it a day wasted in which they don't ruin
someone's pleasure in being alive.

The amp you want to buy is a bit expensive by Chinese standards. Go to
the newsgroup uk.rec.audio and search for posts by Keith G. He has
bought several Chinese amps and he shows photographs and gives prices
on his site. I seem to remember he bought in Germany; your advertiser
must have quite a few bad responses from customers, so I would view him
with care; I have good experience buying from Germany myself (not amps
because I build my own but other stuff).

If you want a US built amp, how about building it yourself? Go to the
site of Electronic Tonalities of Poulsbo, WA,, who sell good kits, and
have a look around. I built one of their original SEX kits and found it
good.

The thing about buying or building a small amp is that it can easily
turn out to be a misery unless you consider your speakers first. At my
site JUTE ON AMPS
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/JUTE%20ON%20AMPS.htm
you will find a lot of information about how one decides which amp to
buy or build, including a lot of background about 300B amps in THE KISS
AMP
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/T...mp%20INDEX.htm
A pair of chapters you must absolutely read before you buy an amp, or
speakers for that matter, is The Myth of the Watt
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/K...dre%20Jute.htm
Calculating the Power your Amp requires to Drive the chosen Speakers
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/K...dre%20Jute.htm
The Impressario is an inexpensive, easily built, point source speaker
that requires less than 2W to sound great:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/K...Impresario.jpg
and here is an a very inexpensive 2W ZNFB SE amp I designed for my son
when he was a student
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/Jute-EL34-SEntry.jpg
which you can build with the inexpensive US-made UBT or Hammond output
transformers.

Follow your nose and your heart. Hi-fi is only a hobby, not a crusade.
The single-focus fanatics will leech all pleasure from your hobby if
you let them. **** 'em.

HTH.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

I was drawn to this amp because it is integrated (I don't currently
have the funds to purchase a
preamp and power amp combo - but I would like an all-tube sound),
class-A, has all-tube
rectification, point-to-point wiring, and comes with electro-harmonix
tubes in the preamp stage.

Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions about this amp? I realize it
is Chinese and a USA-made amp would be better, but of course this
contributes to the lower price. I also realize I will probably have to
purchase a phono preamp to hook my record player to this amp
effectively. Anyway, suggestions/opinions/criticisms anyone?

[Trevor Wilson]

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...

Justin wrote:
Hello everyone! I am a newcomer to the world of tube audio. I've
loved my Peavey Classic 30 guitar amplifier for the last 6 years and
I'm looking into getting started in the world of tube stereos. I know
a little bit about amplifiers (I'm a recent EE grad) and I collect
vinyl as well.

I'm considering purchasing the amplifier listed he

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nice-300B-6CA7...QQcmdZViewItem

Yo, Justin, welcome! Don't let the choleric mouthfoamers like Wilson
put you off; they count it a day wasted in which they don't ruin
someone's pleasure in being alive.

**Why? Have you heard that amp? Do you advocate that people should spend
money on products they've never listened to? You're dumber than the original
poster.

Never buy a car without test driving it, never marry a woman without first
bedding her and NEVER buy audio equipment without first listening to it. Of
course, a moron might suggest that I am wrong. Sane people will always
disagree with you.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Keith G]

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...

Justin wrote:
Hello everyone! I am a newcomer to the world of tube audio. I've
loved my Peavey Classic 30 guitar amplifier for the last 6 years and
I'm looking into getting started in the world of tube stereos. I know
a little bit about amplifiers (I'm a recent EE grad) and I collect
vinyl as well.

I'm considering purchasing the amplifier listed he

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nice-300B-6CA7...QQcmdZViewItem

Yo, Justin, welcome! Don't let the choleric mouthfoamers like Wilson
put you off; they count it a day wasted in which they don't ruin
someone's pleasure in being alive.

The amp you want to buy is a bit expensive by Chinese standards. Go to
the newsgroup uk.rec.audio and search for posts by Keith G. He has
bought several Chinese amps and he shows photographs and gives prices
on his site. I seem to remember he bought in Germany; your advertiser
must have quite a few bad responses from customers, so I would view him
with care; I have good experience buying from Germany myself (not amps
because I build my own but other stuff).


OK, see below....


I was drawn to this amp because it is integrated (I don't currently
have the funds to purchase a
preamp and power amp combo - but I would like an all-tube sound),
class-A, has all-tube
rectification, point-to-point wiring, and comes with electro-harmonix
tubes in the preamp stage.

Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions about this amp? I realize it
is Chinese and a USA-made amp would be better, but of course this
contributes to the lower price. I also realize I will probably have to
purchase a phono preamp to hook my record player to this amp
effectively. Anyway, suggestions/opinions/criticisms anyone?


I'm afraid I've taken my webpages down (needed the webspace for speaker
stuff) but I can tell you that amp is very similar to one of the two Chinese
300B SETs I bought - same chassis, apparently same (or at least same sized)
transformers but different input/driver valves (mine are ECC81/6V6).

It is the same supplier who, I believe, is well-established with an emporium
in HK or somewhere and is perfectly reputable AFAIK - there were no delivery
problems with my amp. Shipping to the UK was about 100USD (from China - the
amps from Germany were entirely different) and the same again for Import
Duty, so the price goes up a tad!

My opinion of the amp is that it is perfectly *adequate* if possibly a
little unspectacular (it don't beat my homebrew 2A3 LW), it appears to
reliable (mine is performing perfectly well) and is undeniably very good
value for money. But, in case you are interested, I would say the Bez amps
will give you more bang for the buck but they will almost certainly mess you
around a bit - if nothing else, they seem to come with some seriously
deranged valves in 'em!! ;-)

These budget Chinese amps do get you into the SET game on the cheap, but my
tip would be to follow André's advice and build your own - it'll probably
cost more, but as an EE grad, you owe it to yourself (do you not?) and any
amp you build yourself will probably sound better) and it will give you much
more satisfaction!!

[Raymond Koonce]

Keith G wrote:

you owe it to yourself (do you not?) and any
amp you build yourself will probably sound better) and it will give
you much more satisfaction!!

AGREED!! There's no better sounding amp than the one you build
yourself. It's not that hard to do.

Regards,

Raymond

[Iain Churches]

"Raymond Koonce" wrote in message
news:w0dAg.8264$ok5.4613@dukeread01...
Keith G wrote:

you owe it to yourself (do you not?) and any
amp you build yourself will probably sound better) and it will give
you much more satisfaction!!

AGREED!! There's no better sounding amp than the one you build yourself.
It's not that hard to do.

Yes. Those are my sentiments exactly, although knowing where to start
is something of an enigma:-)

It's not rocket science, and as an EE, Justin, you should have
no problems technically.

SET sometimes takes a lot of stick (especially on UKRA)
but there are many good schematics, and people
(especially on RAT) who will point you in the right
direction if required. There is a great deal of know-how
here, and (contrary perhaps to appearances:-) some very
friendly and helpful people.

Justin. Don't be discouraged by those who would disparage
valve/tube audio. Build some equipment, and form your own
opinions. It takes a lot of dedication, as Patrick, Andre, Nick and
others will tell you, but it is quite within the realms of possibility
to build something to equal the products of the major manufacturers.

Welcome to RAT. Hopefully you will keep us posted as your
ideas turn into reality:-)

One of my homebrew efforts can be seen at:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...em/C50_002.jpg

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...em/C50_010.jpg

Good luck

--
Iain
www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches

[[email protected]]

Justin:

Beware of advice from this particular source, some salt is required.
The amps from the perpetrator of this site don't work. Do a search on
this NG for the history.

That being written, some advice from a Fix-It type:

a) Chinese amps tend to be of minimal quality, and so become attractive
primarily to the price-driven. I am presently rebuilding a pair of
guitar amps for a friend that were awfully cheap (single-ended
6BQ5-based units), but each needs a substantial circuit rebuild to
remove the hum at low volume and the whistle at higher volume. Go
figure. It's only a couple of bucks worth of parts and a couple of
hours time, but there should be no need for it were the amps designed
properly from the factory.
b) I boggle at the concept of purchasing an amp under 'sales-final'
conditions unheard. Sure, at a flea-market at a cost similar to a
Mocha-Latte-Grande at Starbucks, but not for real money.
c) Building it yourself is a worthwhile endeavor. But given the very
real problems with SET amps, coupled with the very real problems with
tube amps in general, I would strongly suggest that if you choose this
option, you start with an established and proven source and an
established and proven circuit requiring a minimum of test instruments.

d) And what is your goal? Do you have speakers that are compatible with
a flea-powered amp? Do you enjoy music that is sufficiently 'simple' to
be compatible with both? Is it the concept of SET that is appealing?

Yeah, yeah... we purchase on emotion and justify afterwards. But the
potentialf for Buyer's Regret should at least be minimized.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Patrick Turner]

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...

Justin wrote:
Hello everyone! I am a newcomer to the world of tube audio. I've
loved my Peavey Classic 30 guitar amplifier for the last 6 years and
I'm looking into getting started in the world of tube stereos. I know
a little bit about amplifiers (I'm a recent EE grad) and I collect
vinyl as well.

I'm considering purchasing the amplifier listed he

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nice-300B-6CA7...QQcmdZViewItem

Yo, Justin, welcome! Don't let the choleric mouthfoamers like Wilson
put you off; they count it a day wasted in which they don't ruin
someone's pleasure in being alive.

**Why? Have you heard that amp? Do you advocate that people should spend
money on products they've never listened to? You're dumber than the original
poster.

Never buy a car without test driving it, never marry a woman without first
bedding her and NEVER buy audio equipment without first listening to it. Of
course, a moron might suggest that I am wrong. Sane people will always
disagree with you.

The original poster could audition just about any 8 watt amp with 300B SET outputs
to get an idea of what is possible with 8 watts.

I am sure he could find a sample, or join an audio club to find out more.

But I do share Trevor's concerns about the chinese build quality.

Quality is something the makers of cheaper chinese don't understand like the best makers in the West.

But one has to expect this situation to be quite normal because if they are prepared to make
an amp for 20dB less $$$ than a CJ or ARC, then expect 20dB less quality.

Its about that simple.

Anyone buying Chinese Crap may need to have it modded.

About 3 weeks ago I had to repair a chinese amp from Hong Kong with
the brandname printed on the front "Hi-Fi Amplifier", which isn't a brand name.
The guy here who bought it for peanuts direct from HK got it cheap because no western middle men
upped the chinese price by 15dB.
Anyway, it lasted 2 weeks before one channel became silent.
I easily fixed it by replacing a 25 watt common cathode resistor to the two KT88 output tubes of one channel.
There was no paper work with the amp and no schematic available anywhere.
I found it difficult to trace the point to point circuitry because parts had been thoughtlessly
placed so that tube socket tags were obstructed from view, and couldn't be soldered
unless some parts were removed.
To remove the faulty resistor I had to break off bolts because the screw heads were obstructed by
the double layered steel chassis used to enable about 6 different models to be assembled
similar to the one which is the subject of this thread.

So replacement of an OPT or other part including a tube socket would take 30dBb longer than it should.
The amps are not built to be serviced easily, and as usual, contain no active protection measure should there
be bias failure of one or more output tubes.
The power transformers hummed badly, and were not silent as they should be.
There were two power trannies wired in parallel, and with 3 dual diode rectifier tubes also
wired in parallel to act as a slow turn on diode, with SS rectifiers.
It was supposed to be dual monbloc but wasn't.
As well as the gimicky 3 rectifier tubes where one would have been OK there were 2 tuning eye level indicators
which had numbers and chinese lettering and about which I could find no data on th web.
They indicated clipping at about 1/4 of actual clipping output voltage.


Good amps don't have gimicks.

The volume control pot and source switch was the usual crap $2 type one sees in cheap
shops selling such crap.
And its a nightmare to replace such items and any of the rear panel RCA sockets etc
because there is a stupid 10mm thick anodized Al panel screwed on from inside the amp to cover
any nuts or screws allowing one to replace these items.

Somebody with NO brains designs these amps which are designed to look good,
and easy to assemble, and horror story to service.
The powder coat finish was very ordinary.

The amp was UL, and made the correct 50 watts AB but there was zero NFB so the output
impedance was 10 ohms. Although the OPT had enough bandwidth with no NFB, they howled
with signal and showed that they were not properly potted and maybe not varnished properly.
The quality of circuit layout left a lot to be desired although it looked well if you had no idea about detail.

After the small mods I made to the KT88 output tube cathode circuits by using
separate R&C bypassing to each of the 4 KT88, I then converted it to triode operation and
Rout fell to 2 ohms at the 8 ohm outlet.
There was still very adequate output in triode to suit the owner's speakers from either the 4 ohm outlet
where Rout = 1 ohm, and from the 8 ohm outlet.

The 4 ohm outlet ensured class A power was around 12 watts, with slightly more in class AB,
so the amp ended up about the same as a standard 16 watt Williamson with KT88 in triode
which is the better tube to use in a Williamson, and not as much NFB need be used, and in fact
because the wacko weirdo chinese input circuit would have taken too much modding
to accomodate 12dB of loop NFB, I left that job out and left the amp without global NFB.

The owner is delighted. He now gets better HF with his Quad ESL57 because these speakers have declining
Z at HF which don't suit being driven with an amp with Rout = 10 ohms.

I would predict that perhaps another branch of rthe HK company who made the amp I
repaired may make Guchi handbags and Rolecks watches.....

But the one I repaired looks very much like the one mentioned in this thread.
It has very similar details both above and below the chassis.
I'd never buy one of course.

Photographs of chinese crap on E-bay do not show up the faults many of the
amps.

But if price is all that matters then then the Chinese are unbeatable.

And at the end of the day, the Chinese cheap amp is no worse than the crap
that was foisted upon us by unruly western makers in 1955.

One hardly has to try very hard to make OPT and power trannies better than the cheap horrors
sold by Ferguson and others here in Oz, and ones fitted to Leak amps in the 1950s.

The chinese are merely regurgitating all the past craperama without having learnt from the past
and I wish them well should they try to improve.
Its unfortuate that had the amp I fixed been built to a similar design to a Leak
in terms of chassis construction and wiring detail, it would have been a lot cheaper for the Chinese
to make! And it would have been better than a Leak.
And if the Chinese ever learnt a little more about transformers and circuitry
and parts quality they would indeed get more respect from discriminating audiophiles
all over the world.

Patrick Turner.









--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Justin]

Thank you so much everyone! That is more information than I ever
expected to gain. I think the suggestion to build my own is a very
good one, and that may end up being the way I go. Having this group as
a resource, it seems much more likely that I could accomplish it.

I completely understand the risks and lack of free-thinking involved in
buying an amp you've never heard, and I think it's very reasonable not
to do so. I guess my problem is finding tube stereo systems to listen
to and compare. They seem to be very hidden, and when you do find them
their sellers are very unwilling to humor penniless college kids. But
I will do my best to seek some out and do some ear training before I
drop too much money.

Thanks again!

Justin wrote:
Hello everyone! I am a newcomer to the world of tube audio. I've
loved my Peavey Classic 30 guitar amplifier for the last 6 years and
I'm looking into getting started in the world of tube stereos. I know
a little bit about amplifiers (I'm a recent EE grad) and I collect
vinyl as well.

I'm considering purchasing the amplifier listed he

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nice-300B-6CA7...QQcmdZViewItem

I was drawn to this amp because it is integrated (I don't currently
have the funds to purchase a
preamp and power amp combo - but I would like an all-tube sound),
class-A, has all-tube
rectification, point-to-point wiring, and comes with electro-harmonix
tubes in the preamp stage.

Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions about this amp? I realize it
is Chinese and a USA-made amp would be better, but of course this
contributes to the lower price. I also realize I will probably have to
purchase a phono preamp to hook my record player to this amp
effectively. Anyway, suggestions/opinions/criticisms anyone?

[Sander deWaal]

"Justin" said:

Thank you so much everyone! That is more information than I ever
expected to gain. I think the suggestion to build my own is a very
good one, and that may end up being the way I go. Having this group as
a resource, it seems much more likely that I could accomplish it.

I completely understand the risks and lack of free-thinking involved in
buying an amp you've never heard, and I think it's very reasonable not
to do so. I guess my problem is finding tube stereo systems to listen
to and compare. They seem to be very hidden, and when you do find them
their sellers are very unwilling to humor penniless college kids. But
I will do my best to seek some out and do some ear training before I
drop too much money.


I don't know about your neck of the woods, but here in the
Netherlands, we have a very active circle of DIY-ers, who meet in DIY
forums on the Internet, and often also in real life for listening
sessions.

I would suggest you go visit one of the many DIY-boards that are
there, and seek out some pals in your neighborhood.
It is my experience that they are always willing to demonstrate and
explain their amps and systems, and are eager to help a newbie on his
way to tube heaven.

As others already said, there's nothing more rewarding than to
actively design, build and listen to your own amplifiers, and perhaps
also your own speakers.

You could always start by tweaking and converting an existing
amplifier, like a Dyna ST70 or whatever may be available to you for a
fair price.

Over here, we have shirtloads of PP EL84 amps for about 100 euros on
our local E-bay, which amounts to about 120 dollars if I'm correct;y
informed.
Due to the larger amount of DIY kits and amplifiers that survived in
the US, I expect you'd be able to find something reasonably decent
even cheaper than that.

Anyway, you're not alone in the world, there are many active DIY-ers
both here and on the web-based groups, and most of them are very
knowledgeable and willing to help you.
You might find that you have entered a hobby that won't ever bore you,
and that DIY-ing is an addiction for life!


Good luck!

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[Don Pearce]

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 09:49:03 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:

My use of dB for comparing prices may be taken as voltage comparisons,
so that $10,000 is 20dB more than $1,000.

No, that won't do. Money represents buying power, so that would be
10dB, not 20.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Eeyore]

Don Pearce wrote:

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 09:49:03 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:

My use of dB for comparing prices may be taken as voltage comparisons,
so that $10,000 is 20dB more than $1,000.

No, that won't do. Money represents buying power, so that would be
10dB, not 20.

Oh No !

Here we go *again* !

Graham

[Don Pearce]

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 12:36:51 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



Don Pearce wrote:

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 09:49:03 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:

My use of dB for comparing prices may be taken as voltage comparisons,
so that $10,000 is 20dB more than $1,000.

No, that won't do. Money represents buying power, so that would be
10dB, not 20.

Oh No !

Here we go *again* !

Graham

What do you mean? There are *no* new topics here, ever.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Keith G]

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
ups.com...

But they aren't, because there is no traceability, no consistency, and
the end buyers are idiots, and so they don't.

**Precisely.


OK, as a 'double idiot' (I bought two Chinese SETs) I still say if you want
to hear a SET in the UK you are stuffed, other than hauling down to London
in the hope of getting a fairly brief listen to one in a posh boutique - no
good to me, I need time to audition kit properly in my own home, with a
variety of music and the other kit.

I am very impressed with the sound of the Cheapie Chinkies (for the money)
and, like André, suspect only a small improvement would be got for a
relatively large amount of extra spending. But, having said that, the Idiot
Amps have pointed me to where I want to end up and I am contemplating a
****-off 300B SET to settle down with. (Dare I say it - to last me the rest
of my days...??)

Here's your chance - I don't trust my own abilities to source and build the
*right thing* from scratch (I don't do enough building to keep my eye in)
and have been pondering an Audio Note Kit with the Double C-Core trannies
http://www.audionotekits.com/ but if you think you can do better, quote me.

Quote me for a single input version and a 4 input version with 3 (quality)
toggle switches thus:

Switch 1 = Switch 2 and 3

Switch 2 = Inputs 1 and 2

Switch 3 = Inputs 3 and 4

(ie no rotary switches)

Finish to be presentable and tidy but glitz as per:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/chinky.JPG

not required.

Glass not required either, but valves would/will need to be commonly
available and available as NOS would be an advantage.

Robustness and a sturdy build is paramount - I want a *bullet proof* amp and
components have to be very high quality but not necessarily 'audiophile'.

There you go - don't bust a gut, just suck your thumb for a minute and throw
me a ballpark figure in UKP (including shipping) by direct email for now.
I'm not in any hurry - I have to shift some kit to part fund the project
yet, in any case. Send me a pic of summat to give me an idea, if you have
one.

[Iain Churches]

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
ups.com...

But they aren't, because there is no traceability, no consistency, and
the end buyers are idiots, and so they don't.

**Precisely.


OK, as a 'double idiot' (I bought two Chinese SETs) I still say if you
want to hear a SET in the UK you are stuffed, other than hauling down to
London in the hope of getting a fairly brief listen to one in a posh
boutique - no good to me, I need time to audition kit properly in my own
home, with a variety of music and the other kit.

I am very impressed with the sound of the Cheapie Chinkies (for the money)
and, like André, suspect only a small improvement would be got for a
relatively large amount of extra spending. But, having said that, the
Idiot Amps have pointed me to where I want to end up and I am
contemplating a ****-off 300B SET to settle down with. (Dare I say it - to
last me the rest of my days...??)

Here's your chance - I don't trust my own abilities to source and build
the *right thing* from scratch (I don't do enough building to keep my eye
in) and have been pondering an Audio Note Kit with the Double C-Core
trannies http://www.audionotekits.com/ but if you think you can do better,
quote me.

Quote me for a single input version and a 4 input version with 3 (quality)
toggle switches thus:

Switch 1 = Switch 2 and 3

Switch 2 = Inputs 1 and 2

Switch 3 = Inputs 3 and 4

(ie no rotary switches)

Finish to be presentable and tidy but glitz as per:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/chinky.JPG

not required.

Glass not required either, but valves would/will need to be commonly
available and available as NOS would be an advantage.

Robustness and a sturdy build is paramount - I want a *bullet proof* amp
and components have to be very high quality but not necessarily
'audiophile'.

There you go - don't bust a gut, just suck your thumb for a minute and
throw me a ballpark figure in UKP (including shipping) by direct email for
now. I'm not in any hurry - I have to shift some kit to part fund the
project yet, in any case. Send me a pic of summat to give me an idea, if
you have one.



Keith. is this request made solely to Trevor or open to all?
Iain

[Keith G]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote:


There you go - don't bust a gut, just suck your thumb for a minute and
throw me a ballpark figure in UKP (including shipping) by direct email
for now. I'm not in any hurry - I have to shift some kit to part fund the
project yet, in any case. Send me a pic of summat to give me an idea, if
you have one.



Keith. is this request made solely to Trevor or open to all?
Iain


No, throw me a figure by all means - although I'm not sure I could afford
your prices!! ;-)

(I'm ahead of you Iain - build one and audition it *properly*, flog it and
build yourself one if you liked it! ;-)

The thing that puts me off the Audio Note is all the PCBs and the idea of
pushing more money into to PQ's pocket, although I have to say both he and
Brian in Canada looked after my mate in Brussels when he built his Kit 1
recently. The AN Copper caps were a bit of a nightmare though, from what I
was told....

[Sander deWaal]

(Don Pearce) said:


My use of dB for comparing prices may be taken as voltage comparisons,
so that $10,000 is 20dB more than $1,000.


No, that won't do. Money represents buying power, so that would be
10dB, not 20.


LOL!

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[Patrick Turner]

Don Pearce wrote:

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 09:49:03 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:

My use of dB for comparing prices may be taken as voltage comparisons,
so that $10,000 is 20dB more than $1,000.

No, that won't do. Money represents buying power, so that would be
10dB, not 20.

I think the impudence of the monetary circuits needs attenuation of the
greed factor,
with regard for resistance to oscillations in purchasing preferences.

Patrick Turner.



d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Patrick Turner]

Sander DeWaal wrote:

(Don Pearce) said:

My use of dB for comparing prices may be taken as voltage comparisons,
so that $10,000 is 20dB more than $1,000.

No, that won't do. Money represents buying power, so that would be
10dB, not 20.

LOL!

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

Bee Ware. Yor Miss Takes will be the roon of ye if she doth pull
down yor Strides and she doth Pleigh a Toon onyer Organ.

Patrick Turner

[Sander deWaal]

Patrick Turner said:


"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."


Bee Ware. Yor Miss Takes will be the roon of ye if she doth pull
down yor Strides and she doth Pleigh a Toon onyer Organ.


Che ownly nose wan toon, bat her intonasjin is purrfikt! ;-)

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[Patrick Turner]

Sander DeWaal wrote:

Patrick Turner said:

"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

Bee Ware. Yor Miss Takes will be the roon of ye if she doth pull
down yor Strides and she doth Pleigh a Toon onyer Organ.

Che ownly nose wan toon, bat her intonasjin is purrfikt! ;-)

And Wan Toon is a reely awful fella she met in Honk Kong........

Patrick Terner.






--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[Tony Gartshore]

In article . com,
says...

Keith G wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
ups.com...

But they aren't, because there is no traceability, no consistency, and
the end buyers are idiots, and so they don't.

**Precisely.


OK, as a 'double idiot' (I bought two Chinese SETs) I still say if you want
to hear a SET in the UK you are stuffed, other than hauling down to London
in the hope of getting a fairly brief listen to one in a posh boutique - no
good to me, I need time to audition kit properly in my own home, with a
variety of music and the other kit.


Youi desperately need to build one yourself. It's called paying your
dues. You'll find it stinks and part it out, probably, but you can
always build a good amp out of the parts and the OPT can be used for a
guitar amp (where single ended makes some sense).


You don't follow Keith's entertaining rambles much do you ?

T.

[Keith G]

"Tony Gartshore" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
says...

Keith G wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
ups.com...

But they aren't, because there is no traceability, no consistency,
and
the end buyers are idiots, and so they don't.

**Precisely.


OK, as a 'double idiot' (I bought two Chinese SETs) I still say if you
want
to hear a SET in the UK you are stuffed, other than hauling down to
London
in the hope of getting a fairly brief listen to one in a posh
boutique - no
good to me, I need time to audition kit properly in my own home, with a
variety of music and the other kit.


Youi desperately need to build one yourself. It's called paying your
dues. You'll find it stinks and part it out, probably, but you can
always build a good amp out of the parts and the OPT can be used for a
guitar amp (where single ended makes some sense).


You don't follow Keith's entertaining rambles much do you ?



Tony, I don't subscribe to any other ng than ukra - there's no reason why he
should have seen my 'ramblings'!!

Or seen the DIY on my website:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/


The reason I might be interested in an 'expert' build for an *ultimate
amplifier* is that I don't do/haven't done enough amp building to be
definitely able to build summat that I would *know* was perfect. Whether or
not I build any more stuff in the future remains to be seen (no plans for
amps right now), but it would be useful to have a 'benchmark' amp to compare
with, if I did...??

[Ned Carlson]

Golly, do ALL of you Aussies have terminal
Cartmanitis? You, Phil, Mel Gibson, Russell Crowe
(thrown any telephones lately?), Pauline Hanson, who else?

"No, kitty, that's MY meat pie!"
"I hate poofters. Poofters **** me off!"

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but, my, give
the poor kid a break, willya?

BTW, vine borers DID eat my zucchini. (You may call them
courgettes) I hate vine borers. Vine borers **** me off!
Nobody believes me, but vine borers really did eat my
zucchini. If I were in Australia, I'd probably get hauled
off to the nick for criminal negligent herbicide.

My watermelons and sunflowers (Sunflowers can make about
any gardener look like a genius, it seems) are doing OK.


--
Ned Carlson
SW side of Chicago, USA
www.tubezone.net

[Trevor Wilson]

"Ned Carlson" wrote in message
...
Golly, do ALL of you Aussies have terminal
Cartmanitis? You, Phil, Mel Gibson, Russell Crowe
(thrown any telephones lately?), Pauline Hanson, who else?

**I agree, we have all those (except Mel, who was born in the US and is a US
citizen). However, you're stuck with Dubya. THAT trumps us.


"No, kitty, that's MY meat pie!"
"I hate poofters. Poofters **** me off!"

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but, my, give
the poor kid a break, willya?

**Some people need to be told in no uncertain terms.



--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Keith G]

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
oups.com...

Keith G wrote:
snip
The reason I might be interested in an 'expert' build for an *ultimate
amplifier* is that I don't do/haven't done enough amp building to be
definitely able to build summat that I would *know* was perfect. Whether
or
not I build any more stuff in the future remains to be seen (no plans for
amps right now), but it would be useful to have a 'benchmark' amp to
compare
with, if I did...??

It's called test equipment. Verify the unit works to design and then
you know you have buuilt it right. But, you could always then take your
amps in to a local high end saloon on the pretext you want to buy their
speakers but want to hear them with your amps first.....


:-)

The 'highest end' dealer to me (walking distance if I was in the mood) is a
Yank flogging silly expensive stuff, so I've never been there!!

http://www.hifidelityaudio.co.uk/

........but he's sent word to me (via David with the ST70 in another thread,
asitappens) that he's got some Zu Druids I *should* hear, so It'd probably
be doable!!

[Justin]

Heeding the advice of this group, I have decided to attempt to build my
own tube amp (for the first time). I want it to be stereo, integrated,
and class a.

Another reason I have decided to do this is I have an old tube amp that
isn't currently working that I would like to pull parts from to make my
first amp. I understand that it is better to design an amp around your
speakers rather than around the tubes you have, but I'm attracted to
the idea of not having to pay for a lot of parts.

Some pictures of the amp are located he

http://www.jbtrio.com/amp.html

To me, this amp looks like some kind of Dynakit clone. It's mono, and
I've been told it's 50 watts. It has 2 6550's, a 12AU7, a 6AN8, and
either a 12AX7 or 12AY7 (the marking is rubbed off). It has 6
transformers in it, one of which is a Dynaco A-420. The 5U4 rectifier
tube is dead, but I'd like to use tube rectification in my amp.

So the goal here is to use the parts from this amp, plus whatever else
I need, to build an integrated class a stereo amplifier.

Obviously, I know very little about how to do this. Can anyone
recommend some books I might be able to acquire (preferably from an
accessible source like amazon.com) that would help me along the way?
Is there anything glaringly wrong with my plan of action? Any tips for
a first-time amp designer? I would welcome any advice anyone is
willing to offer.

Thanks!

[Raymond Koonce]

Justin wrote:

Heeding the advice of this group, I have decided to attempt to build my
own tube amp (for the first time). I want it to be stereo, integrated,
and class a.

Another reason I have decided to do this is I have an old tube amp that
isn't currently working that I would like to pull parts from to make my
first amp. I understand that it is better to design an amp around your
speakers rather than around the tubes you have, but I'm attracted to
the idea of not having to pay for a lot of parts.

Some pictures of the amp are located he

http://www.jbtrio.com/amp.html

To me, this amp looks like some kind of Dynakit clone. It's mono, and
I've been told it's 50 watts. It has 2 6550's, a 12AU7, a 6AN8, and
either a 12AX7 or 12AY7 (the marking is rubbed off). It has 6
transformers in it, one of which is a Dynaco A-420. The 5U4 rectifier
tube is dead, but I'd like to use tube rectification in my amp.

So the goal here is to use the parts from this amp, plus whatever else
I need, to build an integrated class a stereo amplifier.

Obviously, I know very little about how to do this. Can anyone
recommend some books I might be able to acquire (preferably from an
accessible source like amazon.com) that would help me along the way?
Is there anything glaringly wrong with my plan of action? Any tips for
a first-time amp designer? I would welcome any advice anyone is
willing to offer.

Thanks!


Hi Justin,

Well, that's an old one for sure! The Dyna output transformer is
well-regarded, so it's a good place to start. Now you need a mate.
Keep an eye on the 'bay.

As far as good reading material, there's a ton on the net, most of which
you should take with a grain of salt, so to speak. I can recommend
Morgan Jones' two books "Valve Amplifiers Third Edition" and "Building
Valve Amplifiers". You can find both of those on Amazon. A little
pricey, but excellent reading. He really helps with understanding the
math. The former deals primarily with circuit design and the latter
with actual construction considerations. If I could only buy one, it
would be "Valve Amplifiers".

This forum can be a good place to ask for information, but sometimes the
S/N ratio is pretty low.

Good luck,

Raymond

[thomas]

That would make a kick-ass guitar amp. I'd try to trade it to a
musician for an old tube stereo.


Justin wrote:
Heeding the advice of this group, I have decided to attempt to build my
own tube amp (for the first time). I want it to be stereo, integrated,
and class a.

Another reason I have decided to do this is I have an old tube amp that
isn't currently working that I would like to pull parts from to make my
first amp. I understand that it is better to design an amp around your
speakers rather than around the tubes you have, but I'm attracted to
the idea of not having to pay for a lot of parts.

Some pictures of the amp are located he

http://www.jbtrio.com/amp.html

To me, this amp looks like some kind of Dynakit clone. It's mono, and
I've been told it's 50 watts. It has 2 6550's, a 12AU7, a 6AN8, and
either a 12AX7 or 12AY7 (the marking is rubbed off). It has 6
transformers in it, one of which is a Dynaco A-420. The 5U4 rectifier
tube is dead, but I'd like to use tube rectification in my amp.

So the goal here is to use the parts from this amp, plus whatever else
I need, to build an integrated class a stereo amplifier.

Obviously, I know very little about how to do this. Can anyone
recommend some books I might be able to acquire (preferably from an
accessible source like amazon.com) that would help me along the way?
Is there anything glaringly wrong with my plan of action? Any tips for
a first-time amp designer? I would welcome any advice anyone is
willing to offer.

Thanks!

[Andre Jute]

Justin wrote:
Heeding the advice of this group, I have decided to attempt to build my
own tube amp (for the first time). I want it to be stereo, integrated,
and class a.

At this point you seriously want to consider a kit, Justin. It comes
with all the parts, saving a lot of separate carriage charges, which
can be a real killer; a kit usually works out cheaper than doing it
yourself. It comes with a diagram so that you know someone built it
before. A good kit supplier will answer questions by e-mail or has an
active forum you can join, so you have a helping hand. A kit is a fast
way to build your confidence. A kit also almost guarantees completion,
while DIY casework can take such an appalling amount of time that
projects languish and die.

I recommend the kits sold by Electronic Tonalities of Poulsbo, WA. The
adherence of the owner, Dan "Bottlehead" Schmalle to Magnequest
transformers is strange but in all other respects he is the most
exemplary kit supplier I can think of (a couple of others who were in
the same class gave too much for too little and are no longer in
business). HTH.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

Another reason I have decided to do this is I have an old tube amp that
isn't currently working that I would like to pull parts from to make my
first amp. I understand that it is better to design an amp around your
speakers rather than around the tubes you have, but I'm attracted to
the idea of not having to pay for a lot of parts.

Some pictures of the amp are located he

http://www.jbtrio.com/amp.html

To me, this amp looks like some kind of Dynakit clone. It's mono, and
I've been told it's 50 watts. It has 2 6550's, a 12AU7, a 6AN8, and
either a 12AX7 or 12AY7 (the marking is rubbed off). It has 6
transformers in it, one of which is a Dynaco A-420. The 5U4 rectifier
tube is dead, but I'd like to use tube rectification in my amp.

So the goal here is to use the parts from this amp, plus whatever else
I need, to build an integrated class a stereo amplifier.

Obviously, I know very little about how to do this. Can anyone
recommend some books I might be able to acquire (preferably from an
accessible source like amazon.com) that would help me along the way?
Is there anything glaringly wrong with my plan of action? Any tips for
a first-time amp designer? I would welcome any advice anyone is
willing to offer.

Thanks!