[Jenn]

On May 13, 7:17 pm, Andre Jute wrote:
Patrick Turner wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
I used to have c8000 vinyl discs, including some old shellac. I sold
the important subcollections and gave the rest away. Vinyl is just too
time-consuming. So much music to listen to, so little time. CDs are a
boon.

Gee, once an LP gets well cleaned when purchased, putting one on to
play takes, what, less than 30 seconds?


I think there is a certain masochism afield among audiophiles.
snip

Or perhaps some people simply like the sound of some LPs.

[Andre Jute]

Keith G wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
I think there is a certain masochism afield among audiophiles. Like
Morgan owners, or MG owners, they think that hardship on one's
pleasures is a symptom of manliness. I don't. I always preferred
Porsche. cars that worked and offered a modicum of comfort, and big-
engined fast tourers rather than harsh, loud sports cars. Same in my
sound systems.


You do? I saw some rather good pix you posted recently and a couple of
your bike with a *heartrate monitor* (?) did I not?

I gave up the car altogether about 1990 and took up bicycling instead.
Now I'm 91.5kg, not too far over the days when I was a rugby player,
and officially certified to have "the heart of an ox". The heartrate
monitor is to keep my heart beating in the aerobic regions; when the
HRM beeps those who cycle with me know to slow down.

More about my bikes at
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/B...20CYCLING.html

Here's a picture of my current bike:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/mybi...%20GSX1400.jpg

Uh-huh. An overage hooligan -- says Andre who is still an honorary
president of the Johannesburg Hell's Angels. (It cost me a
containerload of beer but was cheap at the price because it also saved
me a beating. How the hell was I to know that the guy whose
policeman's hat I lifted was an Angel?)

It allows me to do 0 to *very naughty* whenever I can or want without
even breaking a sweat!! ;-)

Sweat is precisely the point. 91.5Kg...

I define what I want the sound to be and to do, and
then put it together like that. That is why I think horns and panels
are important, and ultra-simple amplifiers

OK, we are back on the same track again.....

All is good, all is calm....

I'm so fit that, when people bother me, my blood pressure goes *down*.

Andre Jute
"You don't need global feedback to build a good-sounding amplifier."
-- Henry Pasternack

[Andre Jute]

Gerry wrote:
On May 13, 6:33 pm, Andre Jute wrote:
Seeing all the posts about RIAA filters, I can only say I hope none of
the participants passed on the gene of obsessive shortsightedness that
draws audiophiles into the wastelands of RIAA. Vinyl discs are bad
enough when good clean CD's are available, but RIAA is a bodge to
correct another bodge. Two bodges don't make it right.

Andre Jute
uses only CD and so has time for more music

What the hell is "bodge"????

I think John Byrns has already given the American as "kludge".

Though I seem to recall that I first heard the word "bodge" used by
one of my mechanics at Talladega when I was young and reckless enough
to ask "Why?" It turned out there was a man called Bodger, though I
want to stress immediately that I never met him, just in case he turns
out to be a street myth.

My own bodger, kept in my hot rod toolchest (I used to hotrod old
Bentleys), was given to me by an American mechanic. It is a First
World War British Army knife. The bodger part is the fold-out bayonet.
These knives were once seen in every mechanic's toolbox. A common
American version with the younger mechanics, until they had the money
to buy the British Army knife, was tire iron ground round and to a
spiky point at one end.

HTH.

Andre Jute
Impedance is futile, you will be simulated into the triode of the
Borg. -- Robert Casey

[Andre Jute]

George M. Middius wrote:
Gerry said:

RIAA is a bodge to correct another bodge.

What the hell is "bodge"????

It's obviously some bit of Brit slang. I've never heard it before but
the meaning is plain.

My suggestion is to find a 12-year-old child who earns a B average in
school and ask the child to clue you in.
--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

I can glance up at about 16 shelf-feet of computer manuals still in
shrinkwrap. When a new programme arrives, I put the manuals on the
shelf and give the discs to a teenager and tell him to come back in a
week and tell me how it works. Never fails. Also works for
televisions, DVD recorders and all kinds of electronics that, even if
you have the time to fartarse around with the instructions, require an
intimate understanding of Japlish as translated from Korean via
Chinese by a dyslexic.

Andre Jute
The trouble with most people is not what they don't know, but what
they know for certain that isn't true. ---Mark Twain

[John Byrns]

In article ,
Eiron wrote:

John Byrns wrote:

In article ,
Eiron wrote:

You have that graph upside down. HF is boosted for disc cutting
and reduced on playback to reduce noise (among other reasons).


No, I have the graph exactly the correct way around. The RIAA disk
cutting curve reduces the high frequency groove amplitude by roughly 12
dB using a shelving equalizer with time constants of 318.3 usec. and 75
usec. You are the one that has his RIAA groove amplitude graph upside
down, I suggest doing a little homework before making further comment so
as not to embarrass yourself in public.

I suggest doing a little homework before making further comment
so as not to embarrass yourself even more in public.
And just to get you started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization


It is always best to read the Wikipedia with a jaundiced eye. In this
case they have omitted an explanation of some of their unstated
assumptions. The first two paragraphs are OK, but the graph and the
following paragraphs can't be correctly interpreted without
understanding the assumptions made by the Wikipedia article. The
primary problem is that the article fails to mention that they are
assuming a velocity responsive pickup that gives an output that rises at
6 dB/octave with increasing frequency, for a constant recorded groove
amplitude. If you compensate the playback curve graph shown in the
Wikipedia article for this effect you will end up with a playback curve
that is exactly the complement of the recording curve I described, where
in playback the groove amplitude must be compensated by boosting the
high frequencies by approximately 12 dB.

I know from past discussions here that the nature of the groove
amplitude cut on an RIAA equalized LP is a difficult concept for most in
this group to get their minds around, but if you drop your prejudices,
and take some time to do your homework as I suggested, understanding can
be achieved.


Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

[Andre Jute]

Don Pearce wrote:

That's all very interesting for the etymology of the word, but the
meaning in context here is to do a job by some other means than the
official one - without any sort of judgement as to how good the result
is.

Rubbish! I used the word at the start of this thread precisely to mean
that the official way, RIAA compensation, is a bodge to fix a
recording bodge; both are the official methods of a venerable
institution. A tech near you offers remedial English courses, Pearce;
you might profit by them.

Botch is another thing entirely. You could be doing the job
exactly as recommended, but if you do it poorly, you have botched it.

That's more like it.

d

Andre Jute
Our legislators managed to criminalize fox-hunting and smoking; when
they will get off their collective fat backside and criminalize
negative feedback? It is clearly consumed only by thickoes.

[Nick Gorham]

Andre Jute wrote:


Uh-huh. An overage hooligan -- says Andre who is still an honorary
president of the Johannesburg Hell's Angels. (It cost me a
containerload of beer but was cheap at the price because it also saved
me a beating. How the hell was I to know that the guy whose
policeman's hat I lifted was an Angel?)



Now that I very much doubt, I can imagine the beer saving you from a
beating, but I can see it providing you any membership rights.

Care to show us a picture of your rockers?

--
Nick

[Andre Jute]

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:04:28 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

No, that's Wrongipedia for 'botch' - bodge means making chair legs or
summat. See:

In the usage I know, "botch" is pejorative, it implies making a mess
of the job. "Bodge" is more neutral. "It's a bodge, but it's held up
very well." cf "Jury-rigged".

The woodworking derivation is interesting, but doesn't prove much :-)

Laurence has got it spot on. A bodger might be used to line up two
intransigent holes so components can be bolted together.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

[Keith G]

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...

Keith G wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
I think there is a certain masochism afield among audiophiles. Like
Morgan owners, or MG owners, they think that hardship on one's
pleasures is a symptom of manliness. I don't. I always preferred
Porsche. cars that worked and offered a modicum of comfort, and
big-
engined fast tourers rather than harsh, loud sports cars. Same in
my
sound systems.


You do? I saw some rather good pix you posted recently and a couple
of
your bike with a *heartrate monitor* (?) did I not?

I gave up the car altogether about 1990 and took up bicycling instead.
Now I'm 91.5kg, not too far over the days when I was a rugby player,
and officially certified to have "the heart of an ox".


I've only got the dick of an ox... :-)

[Keith G]

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...

George M. Middius wrote:
Gerry said:

RIAA is a bodge to correct another bodge.

What the hell is "bodge"????

It's obviously some bit of Brit slang. I've never heard it before but
the meaning is plain.

My suggestion is to find a 12-year-old child who earns a B average in
school and ask the child to clue you in.
--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

I can glance up at about 16 shelf-feet of computer manuals still in
shrinkwrap.


*ding*

[Andre Jute]

dave weil wrote:
On 13 May 2007 19:17:07 -0700, Andre Jute wrote:

I define what I want the sound to be and to do

As long as you don't define it for anyone else.

Oh wait, that's pretty much what you did.

I write for intelligent people, Dave. They make up their own minds
whether what I say makes sense. I wouldn't expect someone like you to
be able to follow in my footsteps.

Unsigned for the usual reason

[George M. Middius]

Andre Jute said:

What the hell is "bodge"????

I think John Byrns has already given the American as "kludge".

The correct spelling is "kluge" (rhymes with stooge).



--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Andre Jute]

John Byrns wrote:
In article . com,
Gerry wrote:

On May 13, 6:33 pm, Andre Jute wrote:
Seeing all the posts about RIAA filters, I can only say I hope none of
the participants passed on the gene of obsessive shortsightedness that
draws audiophiles into the wastelands of RIAA. Vinyl discs are bad
enough when good clean CD's are available, but RIAA is a bodge to
correct another bodge. Two bodges don't make it right.

Andre Jute
uses only CD and so has time for more music

What the hell is "bodge"????

It may not be completely accurate, but as a working definition I think
of "bodge" as a British synonym for "kludge".

I would say it is more than "a working definition". "Kludge" is an
exact equivalent of "bodge". However, as I explained elsewhere,
personal experience (I haven't looked it up yet) inclines me not to
believe too much in a strict line of demarcation down the middle of
the Atlantic on this one. Both words appear in my experience to have
currency on both sides of the Atlantic.

Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

Andre Jute
"Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving kids all over the
world, I can't help but cry. I mean I'd love to be skinny like that
but not with all those flies and death and stuff."
--- Mariah Carey.

[Don Pearce]

On 14 May 2007 09:21:29 -0700, Andre Jute wrote:


Don Pearce wrote:

That's all very interesting for the etymology of the word, but the
meaning in context here is to do a job by some other means than the
official one - without any sort of judgement as to how good the result
is.

Rubbish! I used the word at the start of this thread precisely to mean
that the official way, RIAA compensation, is a bodge to fix a
recording bodge; both are the official methods of a venerable
institution. A tech near you offers remedial English courses, Pearce;
you might profit by them.


Here's a scenario that may help - it is fictitious, so don't worry too
much about my well-being.

I was driving home when the heater hose sprang a leak. I didn't have a
spare with me, so I bodged it with some duct tape. That was good
enough to get me home.

I was driving home when the heater hose sprang a leak. I called the
RAC and the chap fitted a new one, but he botched it by leaving a
Jubilee clip loose, so I lost all the water again.

See the usage of the two words?

As for your usage - matching a curve with its precise complement and
describing that as a bodge is ********; there's another alliterative
word for you.

Happy to see, by the way, that today you are a Hell's Angel. Are you
pedalling your bike around the garden and going Vroom Vroom? I must
have missed the day you were an astronaut - when was that? What are
you going to be tomorrow, I wonder?

d
--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[George M. Middius]

Andre Jute said:

My suggestion is to find a 12-year-old child who earns a B average in
school and ask the child to clue you in.

I can glance up at about 16 shelf-feet of computer manuals still in
shrinkwrap. When a new programme arrives, I put the manuals on the
shelf and give the discs to a teenager and tell him to come back in a
week and tell me how it works. Never fails.

Fortunately, such shenanigans are largely no longer necessary for
software apps. One of the few good things about Microsoft's dominion is
the standardization of user-accessible controls.

Also works for
televisions, DVD recorders and all kinds of electronics that, even if
you have the time to fartarse around with the instructions, require an
intimate understanding of Japlish as translated from Korean via
Chinese by a dyslexic.

I was ever so annoyed to discover that my second cell phone (around '97
or so) had a markedly different interface from my previous one.
Fortunately, cell phones are gravitating toward a certain amount of
standardization, as mass-market electronics have already done. Probably
the last holdout for idiosyncratic support will be "high end" audio,
whose manuals still include some terribly crude ones.

Speaking of unspeakably awful interfaces, check out the bastion of
Kroofulness at http://www.pcabx.com/.





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

Andre Jute said:

I define what I want the sound to be and to do

As long as you don't define it for anyone else.
Oh wait, that's pretty much what you did.

I write for intelligent people, Dave. They make up their own minds
whether what I say makes sense. I wouldn't expect someone like you to
be able to follow in my footsteps.

You mistook what dave meant.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Patrick Turner]

Andre Jute wrote:

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:04:28 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

No, that's Wrongipedia for 'botch' - bodge means making chair legs or
summat. See:

In the usage I know, "botch" is pejorative, it implies making a mess
of the job. "Bodge" is more neutral. "It's a bodge, but it's held up
very well." cf "Jury-rigged".

The woodworking derivation is interesting, but doesn't prove much :-)

Laurence has got it spot on. A bodger might be used to line up two
intransigent holes so components can be bolted together.

A metal spike used to place into two bolt holes of overlapping
steel plates by a rigger so he can insert a bolt into two
other holes that could be then be lined up was called a podger when I
was building.
The podger came in various sizes and had the tapered spike one end and a
spanner head at the other.
so that after getting a nut started on a bolt the podger was removed and
used to tighten the nut.


In about 1957, when some young folks discovered rock and roll and
delighted in making themselves
look utterly repugnant and stoopid to their fogie old parents with a
greasy hair do with a mop
of hair out in front and hanging forward, and with black shiny pointed
shoes,
and stove pipe trousers, they called themselves bodgies.

There were Widgies as well, but I never knew any.

There is no accounting for style.

Patrick Turner.

o

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

[west[_4_]]

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ps.com...

Patrick Turner wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

Seeing all the posts about RIAA filters, I can only say I hope none of
the participants passed on the gene of obsessive shortsightedness that
draws audiophiles into the wastelands of RIAA. Vinyl discs are bad
enough when good clean CD's are available, but RIAA is a bodge to
correct another bodge. Two bodges don't make it right.

Andre Jute
uses only CD and so has time for more music

I doubt you really know what you are missing out upon.

But all the really keen musically eclectic ppl i know who have vast cd
collections
indicating a misspent middle age also still enjoy vinyl.
Most find that despite the vast sums they have spent on
cd players and transports, da converters, isolation platforms and
other widgets and gadgets, the humble black disk continues to delight,
and
give a greater sense of connection to the artist than any CD manages to
do.

I have been present at a number of AB comparisons where a CD version
and vinyl version of the same material from the same grand old master
tape
was being played, and we could switch from one to the other,
and vinyl seemed to have more to offer the audiophile subjectively.

Mind you, the whole analog recording process onto tape et all is a huge
bodge to.

So is FM stereo mulptiplexing.

Never mind the bodges, the sound does not seem to suffer, when they do
it right, IMHO.

Patrick Turner.

I used to have c8000 vinyl discs, including some old shellac. I sold
the important subcollections and gave the rest away. Vinyl is just too
time-consuming. So much music to listen to, so little time. CDs are a
boon.

I think there is a certain masochism afield among audiophiles. Like
Morgan owners, or MG owners, they think that hardship on one's
pleasures is a symptom of manliness. I don't. I always preferred
Porsche. cars that worked and offered a modicum of comfort, and big-
engined fast tourers rather than harsh, loud sports cars. Same in my
sound systems. I define what I want the sound to be and to do, and
then put it together like that. That is why I think horns and panels
are important, and ultra-simple amplifiers -- and CDs, so that
chaniging the music is quick and easy.

There is nothing wrong with CD sound quality; it is better than good
enough. I decided to go over solely to CD on the day Nimbus, who
transfer ancient discs to CD, sent me a box of CDs including one of
Ponselle that was better than anything you could buy on any other
medium, no matter how much money you spent.

Andre Jute
Our legislators managed to criminalize fox-hunting and smoking; when
they will get off their collective fat backside and criminalize
negative feedback? It is clearly consumed only by the enemies of
fidelity.

And I am not taking a position on the vinyl vs.CD debate but I am
wondering if the convenience of playing both mediums were equal, which would
you prefer?
Next question, if you don't mind ...what are you using to play your CDs?
Thanks in advance.

west

[Andre Jute]

George M. Middius wrote:
Andre Jute said:

What the hell is "bodge"????

I think John Byrns has already given the American as "kludge".

The correct spelling is "kluge" (rhymes with stooge).


Is that right? Jenn and Bob Morein will enjoy this. In the movies
there a transition called a few-gew by moom pitcher pipple and a fewg
by anyone else, and spelled fugue by both parties. An example is when
you hear a phone ring in one scene and in the next scene see it ring
in a diffeerent setting; that's a few-gew.

All the same I think I'll stick with kludge because I would hate for
people I need to consider me stuck-up.

On your analogy, perhaps a bodge should be pronounced "booger" by us
edjicated people.

Andre Jute
"Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving kids all over the
world, I can't help but cry. I mean I'd love to be skinny like that
but not with all those flies and death and stuff."
--- Mariah Carey.

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 14 May 2007 12:27:53 -0400, George M. Middius cmndr _ george
@ comcast . net wrote:



Andre Jute said:

What the hell is "bodge"????

I think John Byrns has already given the American as "kludge".

The correct spelling is "kluge" (rhymes with stooge).

There is a separate British word kludge, with its own provenance. I
think the two have become confused over the past few years.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Andre Jute]

west wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ps.com...

Patrick Turner wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

Seeing all the posts about RIAA filters, I can only say I hope none of
the participants passed on the gene of obsessive shortsightedness that
draws audiophiles into the wastelands of RIAA. Vinyl discs are bad
enough when good clean CD's are available, but RIAA is a bodge to
correct another bodge. Two bodges don't make it right.

Andre Jute
uses only CD and so has time for more music

I doubt you really know what you are missing out upon.

But all the really keen musically eclectic ppl i know who have vast cd
collections
indicating a misspent middle age also still enjoy vinyl.
Most find that despite the vast sums they have spent on
cd players and transports, da converters, isolation platforms and
other widgets and gadgets, the humble black disk continues to delight,
and
give a greater sense of connection to the artist than any CD manages to
do.

I have been present at a number of AB comparisons where a CD version
and vinyl version of the same material from the same grand old master
tape
was being played, and we could switch from one to the other,
and vinyl seemed to have more to offer the audiophile subjectively.

Mind you, the whole analog recording process onto tape et all is a huge
bodge to.

So is FM stereo mulptiplexing.

Never mind the bodges, the sound does not seem to suffer, when they do
it right, IMHO.

Patrick Turner.

I used to have c8000 vinyl discs, including some old shellac. I sold
the important subcollections and gave the rest away. Vinyl is just too
time-consuming. So much music to listen to, so little time. CDs are a
boon.

I think there is a certain masochism afield among audiophiles. Like
Morgan owners, or MG owners, they think that hardship on one's
pleasures is a symptom of manliness. I don't. I always preferred
Porsche. cars that worked and offered a modicum of comfort, and big-
engined fast tourers rather than harsh, loud sports cars. Same in my
sound systems. I define what I want the sound to be and to do, and
then put it together like that. That is why I think horns and panels
are important, and ultra-simple amplifiers -- and CDs, so that
chaniging the music is quick and easy.

There is nothing wrong with CD sound quality; it is better than good
enough. I decided to go over solely to CD on the day Nimbus, who
transfer ancient discs to CD, sent me a box of CDs including one of
Ponselle that was better than anything you could buy on any other
medium, no matter how much money you spent.

Andre Jute
Our legislators managed to criminalize fox-hunting and smoking; when
they will get off their collective fat backside and criminalize
negative feedback? It is clearly consumed only by the enemies of
fidelity.

And I am not taking a position on the vinyl vs.CD debate but I am
wondering if the convenience of playing both mediums were equal, which would
you prefer?

That's a good question, West. I would choose CD because it doesn't
wear and it is small. I have 6000 CDs (or so) in a fraction of the
space consumed by 8000 LPs. Vinyl is (for me) simply a nuisance
unjustified by whatever extra audiophiles claim to hear in the
grooves.

Next question, if you don't mind ...what are you using to play your CDs?

Quad CD66 and CD67, very old, very reliable. Both of mine were on
lease to the BBC, then checked over at the factory before they came to
me about fifteen years ago.

Thanks in advance.

west

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

[George M. Middius]

Don Pearce said:

The correct spelling is "kluge" (rhymes with stooge).

There is a separate British word kludge, with its own provenance. I
think the two have become confused over the past few years.

That spelling mandates a short vowel sound, like "fudge" or "nudge".




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 14 May 2007 13:49:05 -0400, George M. Middius cmndr _ george
@ comcast . net wrote:



Don Pearce said:

The correct spelling is "kluge" (rhymes with stooge).

There is a separate British word kludge, with its own provenance. I
think the two have become confused over the past few years.

That spelling mandates a short vowel sound, like "fudge" or "nudge".

Yup.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 14 May 2007 13:49:05 -0400, George M. Middius cmndr _ george
@ comcast . net wrote:



Don Pearce said:

The correct spelling is "kluge" (rhymes with stooge).

There is a separate British word kludge, with its own provenance. I
think the two have become confused over the past few years.

That spelling mandates a short vowel sound, like "fudge" or "nudge".

Where bodge would be a makeshift attempt at repair, kludge has more
the flavour of the way the thing is actually made, but looks like a
bodge.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[George M. Middius]

Don Pearce said:

Where bodge would be a makeshift attempt at repair, kludge has more
the flavour of the way the thing is actually made, but looks like a
bodge.

Have you Brits adopted "Krooge" yet? ;-)





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 14 May 2007 15:02:47 -0400, George M. Middius cmndr _ george
@ comcast . net wrote:



Don Pearce said:

Where bodge would be a makeshift attempt at repair, kludge has more
the flavour of the way the thing is actually made, but looks like a
bodge.

Have you Brits adopted "Krooge" yet? ;-)

We haven't even adopted the kilogramme. We got a high court ruling
just a couple of days ago that it will remain legal to sell goods in
pounds and ounces, despite EU membership (which thankfully gets more
tenuous by the day).

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[robert casey]

Patrick Turner wrote:

Andre Jute wrote:

Seeing all the posts about RIAA filters, I can only say I hope none of
the participants passed on the gene of obsessive shortsightedness that
draws audiophiles into the wastelands of RIAA. Vinyl discs are bad
enough when good clean CD's are available, but RIAA is a bodge to
correct another bodge. Two bodges don't make it right.


I have been present at a number of AB comparisons where a CD version
and vinyl version of the same material from the same grand old master
tape
was being played, and we could switch from one to the other,
and vinyl seemed to have more to offer the audiophile subjectively.


I myself never could get my vinyl to sound excellent, but I probably
have made some fundamental mistake in setting up my turntable (a Sony
from 1977 and an Empire cart). And some of my records just seem to be
badly manufactured (45 singles seem to be particularly awful, over
modulated more often than not). Some of the music (yes, top 40 pop from
the 60's and 70's) I wanted can be found only on crappy singles until CD
compilations came out. CDs are a lot less fussy (though it is possible
to muck up a CD (dirt, hair, scratches)).

[robert casey]

We haven't even adopted the kilogramme. We got a high court ruling
just a couple of days ago that it will remain legal to sell goods in
pounds and ounces, despite EU membership (which thankfully gets more
tenuous by the day).


And I thought only the USA and some 3rd world country were the only
nations that haven't gone metric. In a sense, the USA is metric, as the
inch and such are defined in terms of the metric system. Like "One inch
is equal to 2.54cm". And nowadays stuff sold in supermarkets have
both english units and metric units. Which I find nice, as I can never
remember exactly if it's 12 oz to a pound, or was it 16? And I was born
here. And how many pints in a gallon, this gets to be a PITA. Coke now
is sold in liter bottles here. Directly, not as "X oz of Coke, which
happens to be a liter".

[Don Pearce]

On Mon, 14 May 2007 20:13:45 GMT, robert casey
wrote:




We haven't even adopted the kilogramme. We got a high court ruling
just a couple of days ago that it will remain legal to sell goods in
pounds and ounces, despite EU membership (which thankfully gets more
tenuous by the day).


And I thought only the USA and some 3rd world country were the only
nations that haven't gone metric. In a sense, the USA is metric, as the
inch and such are defined in terms of the metric system. Like "One inch
is equal to 2.54cm". And nowadays stuff sold in supermarkets have
both english units and metric units. Which I find nice, as I can never
remember exactly if it's 12 oz to a pound, or was it 16? And I was born
here. And how many pints in a gallon, this gets to be a PITA. Coke now
is sold in liter bottles here. Directly, not as "X oz of Coke, which
happens to be a liter".

This was all about street market traders who wanted to continue
selling in pounds to the old ladies. A couple were prosecuted when we
went metric and the government went a bit ballistic in its enthusiasm.
But their guild took the government to court over the matter, saying
it was restricting their trade and denying customers their rights to
buy however they liked. The court has found in their favour. Pretty
much nothing in the shops has Imperial units marked any more, although
typically liquid measures still show pints as well as litres.

Interestingly, all of Europe and Scandinavia have maintained the
pound, the inch and the foot alongside metres and kilograms throughout
the last five hundred years - they just aren't quite the same as ours.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Gerry[_2_]]

On May 14, 7:08 am, George M. Middius cmndr _ george @ comcast .
net wrote:
Gerry said:

RIAA is a bodge to correct another bodge.
What the hell is "bodge"????

It's obviously some bit of Brit slang. I've never heard it before but
the meaning is plain.

My suggestion is to find a 12-year-old child who earns a B average in
school and ask the child to clue you in.


It was not 'obvious' at all. I seriously doubt that any 12-year-old
American child has ever heard or used that word before. What I'm
gathering from others' interpretations is that it would seem to mean
"cobble together", but the meaning was not at all clear in the
original post.

[George M. Middius]

Gerry said:

RIAA is a bodge to correct another bodge.

What the hell is "bodge"????

It's obviously some bit of Brit slang. I've never heard it before but
the meaning is plain.
My suggestion is to find a 12-year-old child who earns a B average in
school and ask the child to clue you in.

It was not 'obvious' at all.

Yes it was.

I seriously doubt that any 12-year-old
American child has ever heard or used that word before.

Not the point.

What I'm
gathering from others' interpretations is that it would seem to mean
"cobble together",

Sort of, but not precisely. Is English not your first language?

but the meaning was not at all clear in the original post.

Was too. Blazingly obvious.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Ian Bell]

Gerry wrote:

On May 14, 7:08 am, George M. Middius cmndr _ george @ comcast .
net wrote:
Gerry said:

RIAA is a bodge to correct another bodge.
What the hell is "bodge"????

It's obviously some bit of Brit slang. I've never heard it before but
the meaning is plain.

My suggestion is to find a 12-year-old child who earns a B average in
school and ask the child to clue you in.


It was not 'obvious' at all. I seriously doubt that any 12-year-old
American child has ever heard or used that word before. What I'm
gathering from others' interpretations is that it would seem to mean
"cobble together", but the meaning was not at all clear in the
original post.

From wikipedia


Bodge is British slang for a clumsy, messy, inelegant or inadequate solution
to a problem. (See also Kludge.)

IAn

[Nick Gorham]

Ian Bell wrote:
Gerry wrote:


On May 14, 7:08 am, George M. Middius cmndr _ george @ comcast .
net wrote:

Gerry said:


RIAA is a bodge to correct another bodge.

What the hell is "bodge"????

It's obviously some bit of Brit slang. I've never heard it before but
the meaning is plain.

My suggestion is to find a 12-year-old child who earns a B average in
school and ask the child to clue you in.


It was not 'obvious' at all. I seriously doubt that any 12-year-old
American child has ever heard or used that word before. What I'm
gathering from others' interpretations is that it would seem to mean
"cobble together", but the meaning was not at all clear in the
original post.


From wikipedia


Bodge is British slang for a clumsy, messy, inelegant or inadequate solution
to a problem. (See also Kludge.)

IAn

Ok, well, maybe someone should change that on Wiki, its not slang, its
from the same sort of origin as fettle. I used to know someone who was a
trained fettler in the Yorkshire mills. Bodgers were looked down on by
Fettlers.

--
Nick

[robert casey]

RIAA is evil.... :-)


What the hell is "bodge"????


It's obviously some bit of Brit slang. I've never heard it before but
the meaning is plain.

My suggestion is to find a 12-year-old child who earns a B average in
school and ask the child to clue you in.

Sounds like our word "Kludge". To throw something together to do
something, even though it won't be elegant or efficient from a systems
level point of view.

[Eeyore]

"George M. Middius" wrote:

Don Pearce said:

Where bodge would be a makeshift attempt at repair, kludge has more
the flavour of the way the thing is actually made, but looks like a
bodge.

Have you Brits adopted "Krooge" yet? ;-)

You've lost your edge you know.

Graham

[Eeyore]

robert casey wrote:

And how many pints in a gallon, this gets to be a PITA.

How many fl oz in a pint ? It's different if it's a US or Imperial pint.

Then again.....

A pint of beer in Australia or New Zealand is 570 mL, except in South Australia
where a pint is 425 mL and 570 mL is called an imperial pint.

A 375 mL bottle of liquor in the US and the Canadian maritime provinces is
referred to as a “pint”, hearkening back to the days when liquor came in actual
US pints, quarts, and half-gallons.

United Kingdom, Commonwealth of Nations (Imperial)
1 pint = 20 fluid ounces = 568.26125 mL ? 568 mL

United States
1 pint (wet) = 16 fluid ounces = 2 cups ? 473 mL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pint

I should point out that litres should actually be written as a lower case l
(letter L) in fact.


Graham

[robert casey]

Eeyore wrote:


robert casey wrote:


And how many pints in a gallon, this gets to be a PITA.


How many fl oz in a pint ? It's different if it's a US or Imperial pint.

Then again.....

A pint of beer in Australia or New Zealand is 570 mL, except in South Australia
where a pint is 425 mL and 570 mL is called an imperial pint.

A 375 mL bottle of liquor in the US and the Canadian maritime provinces is
referred to as a “pint”, hearkening back to the days when liquor came in actual
US pints, quarts, and half-gallons.

United Kingdom, Commonwealth of Nations (Imperial)
1 pint = 20 fluid ounces = 568.26125 mL ? 568 mL

United States
1 pint (wet) = 16 fluid ounces = 2 cups ? 473 mL


Just imagine if electricity and electronics happened before the metric
system was invented. There'd be some screwball Imperial or english term
and differing measurement for voltage or current, watts and so on.
"There's 12 whatevers in a baappap, and one baappap = 2.67 volts, but
current comes in pytts, and 4 of those in a flupp, and a flupp = 7.3065
amps. ...... :-(

[Nick Gorham]

flipper wrote:

Hehe.

Well, in order to have 'units' you have to be able to 'measure', by
some 'standard', and there are reasons why those archaic units came
into being. (hand, thumb, foot, etc.)

There's also nothing particularly 'special' about metric. It's using
powers that makes it mathematically convenient but the powers could
just as easily be powers of 2, 5, 16, or whatever. But we've got 10
fingers so I imagine even metric comes from an archaic measuring tool.

Btw, 12 was so popular because it's evenly divisible by 2, 3 and 4,
which makes it mathematically 'convenient' for the mathematically
challenged (if you've got 3 people it's a heck of a lot easier to
divide up a dozen eggs than 10). Next 'convenient' number is 60 as
it's evenly divisible by 2, 3, 4, *and* 5. Hmm, now where have I seen
that one before?

One little nugget I like is the use of the spaces between the fingers to
count. That gives you a base eight system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuki_tribe

--
Nick

[Iain Churches]

"John Byrns" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Patrick Turner wrote:

Gerry wrote:

What the hell is "bodge"????

Andre will have his answer, but when he or someone else uses the term
they mean you have to make the signal from the microphone through to the
speaker via vinyl go through a roller coaster ride of "enfrightenment".

Why can't they just record the mic signal after amplifying with a linear
amp,
cutting record with a linear amplitude amp, and having playback
with a flat amp?

What are a few of the reasons? I assume the main reason the RIAA
recording curve shelves down the high frequency groove amplitude is
because if the high frequencies weren't reduced while cutting the record
the groove velocity, and acceleration, at high frequencies would be too
much for the playback pickup to cope with. Cutting the high frequency
amplitude during recording also would reduce the "pinch" effect. Maybe
an expert can tell us the reasons why the high frequency amplitude is
shelved down when cutting a record following the RIAA recording curve?
The down side is that a "bodge" in the form of a complementary high
frequency amplitude boost must be applied during playback, which
accentuates the high frequency noise.


John. You seem to have got your RIAA curves confused.
The recording curve actually shelves at LF because this is generally only
lateral modulation which would otherwise take up too much physical
room on the surface of the disc.

On cutting, the HF is increased on record, and reduced on replay
to attenuate surface noise. It was a pretty nifty solution, certainly not
a bodge.


http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...cord_Curve.png

and the repro curve at:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...duce_Curve.png

These curves appear in a million textbooks, and date from June 1953.

Best regards
Iain

[Gerry[_2_]]

On May 14, 4:42 pm, George M. Middius cmndr _ george @ comcast .
net wrote:
Gerry said:

RIAA is a bodge to correct another bodge.
What the hell is "bodge"????
It's obviously some bit of Brit slang. I've never heard it before but
the meaning is plain.
My suggestion is to find a 12-year-old child who earns a B average in
school and ask the child to clue you in.
It was not 'obvious' at all.

Yes it was.

No - it was not. It's an archaic word not used on a regular basis in
America. Webster's 1956 Dictionary describes bodge as an obsolete
version of the word botch.


I seriously doubt that any 12-year-old
American child has ever heard or used that word before.

Not the point.

YOU brought it up...


What I'm
gathering from others' interpretations is that it would seem to mean
"cobble together",

Sort of, but not precisely. Is English not your first language?

American English is.


but the meaning was not at all clear in the original post.

Was too. Blazingly obvious.

The whole initial post is rather muddled and unclear because of such
uncommon verbiage as bodge.