A Audio and hi-fi forum. AudioBanter.com

Go Back   Home » AudioBanter.com forum » rec.audio » Pro Audio
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Anything to say on Speakons



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 18th 20, 08:49 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Tatonik
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Anything to say on Speakons


I'm planning on terminating some speaker cables with Speakon connectors.
I've plugged in Speakons a few times, but never built any cables with
them. In addition to the Neutrik brand, I noticed Amphenol has their
own version (slightly more expensive). Is there any reason to pick one
over the other (or any other brand I don't know about), in regard to
quality or ease of wiring or general use?

I'm surprised this style of connector hasn't caught on in high-end home
audio. The basic design seems so much safer and more secure than
anything else I've encountered.

Ads
  #2  
Old July 19th 20, 12:22 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,742
Default Anything to say on Speakons

I broke one over twenty years ago while teching at a local hotel
and conference center.
  #3  
Old July 19th 20, 12:33 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,730
Default Anything to say on Speakons

Tatonik > wrote:
>I'm planning on terminating some speaker cables with Speakon connectors.
> I've plugged in Speakons a few times, but never built any cables with
>them. In addition to the Neutrik brand, I noticed Amphenol has their
>own version (slightly more expensive). Is there any reason to pick one
>over the other (or any other brand I don't know about), in regard to
>quality or ease of wiring or general use?


They are all fine. Neutrik will sell you some with metal bodies that are
more expensive but can stand a truck driving over them at a festival. I
tend to like those. Use the NL4, not the NL2, because nobody uses the NL2
and you won't be compatible with anyone else.

The Amphenols are fine. There are some cheap Chinese knockoffs also and
those aren't very rugged at all but you get what you pay for. They are
functional and cheap.

>I'm surprised this style of connector hasn't caught on in high-end home
>audio. The basic design seems so much safer and more secure than
>anything else I've encountered.


High end people don't want secure and reliable, they want options for
tweaking.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #4  
Old July 19th 20, 09:08 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Phil Allison[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 483
Default Anything to say on Speakons

Tatonik wrote:

=============
>
> I'm planning on terminating some speaker cables with Speakon connectors.
> I've plugged in Speakons a few times, but never built any cables with
> them. In addition to the Neutrik brand, I noticed Amphenol has their
> own version (slightly more expensive). Is there any reason to pick one
> over the other (or any other brand I don't know about), in regard to
> quality or ease of wiring or general use?
>


** Speakons are cool connectors, I use them on my home stereo 3-way speakers. The cable clamping is very good and terminating cable ends is simple and requires no soldering.

Dunno about the Amphenol version but BEWARE of Chinese clones - with just a little wear they can FAIL to connect at all.


> I'm surprised this style of connector hasn't caught on in high-end home
> audio. The basic design seems so much safer and more secure than
> anything else I've encountered.


** Nor have XLRs - chunky gold plated binding posts and matching 4mm plugs seem to be the only ones used. Horribly prone to short circuiting during handling IME. Same thing is near impossible with Speakons.


..... Phil



  #5  
Old July 20th 20, 03:13 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
John Williamson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,698
Default Anything to say on Speakons

On 19/07/2020 00:33, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> High end people don't want secure and reliable, they want options for
> tweaking


I suspect a lot of them also want something they can see the workings of.

Pro audio people just want something they can plug in and will work well
enough for the purpose. Speakons and XLR using decent quality cable are
good at that, and it's easy to swap stuff round when you are out on
location or when a perforner moves round a studio.

Audiophiles don't trust what they can't see and fiddle with.

There is also the way the professionals alter the setup between jobs,
while a high end home audio person will want to set stuff up once and
for all, so the convenience of a Speakon isn't needed. Just bear in mind
very few of them even run line level audio through balanced leads...


--
Tciao for Now!

John.
  #6  
Old July 20th 20, 09:45 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
geoff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,647
Default Anything to say on Speakons

On 21/07/2020 2:13 am, John Williamson wrote:

> while a high end home audio person will want to set stuff up once and
> for all, so the convenience of a Speakon isn't needed. Just bear in mind
> very few of them even run line level audio through balanced leads...
>
>


Something to be iad for unbal though. One lot of line-driver distortion
rather than that of two devices.

geoff
  #7  
Old July 21st 20, 12:52 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
geoff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,647
Default Anything to say on Speakons

On 21/07/2020 8:45 am, geoff wrote:
> On 21/07/2020 2:13 am, John Williamson wrote:
>
>> while a high end home audio person will want to set stuff up once and
>> for all, so the convenience of a Speakon isn't needed. Just bear in
>> mind very few of them even run line level audio through balanced leads...
>>
>>

>
> Something to be iad for unbal though. One lot of line-driver distortion
> rather than that of two devices.
>
> geoff


Ooops "iad" = "said".

g.

  #8  
Old July 21st 20, 03:36 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Phil Allison[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 483
Default Anything to say on Speakons

John Williamson wrote:

======================

>>
> > High end people don't want secure and reliable, they want options for
> > tweaking

>
> I suspect a lot of them also want something they can see the workings of.
>
> Pro audio people just want something they can plug in and will work well
> enough for the purpose. Speakons and XLR using decent quality cable are
> good at that, and it's easy to swap stuff round when you are out on
> location or when a perforner moves round a studio.
>
> Audiophiles don't trust what they can't see and fiddle with.
>


** The real reason is much simpler:

Pro audio amplifiers were once always fitted with 4mmm speaker terminals and 1/4 inch jacks plus XLR inputs. Then Speakons came along and were heavily marketed in that sphere - so folk started fitted them to speaker boxes in lieu of XLRs. Having 4 conductor links was much appreciated. Amp racks were often fitted up too.

Took a couple of decades, but now all such amps have Speakons fitted at the factory and also speaker boxes as is expected by buyers and installers.

No such thing applies to domestic hi-fi - few owners would even know what a Speakon connector was or looked like so no change is foreseen by anyone.


...... Phil

  #9  
Old July 21st 20, 08:29 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
John Williamson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,698
Default Anything to say on Speakons

On 21/07/2020 00:52, geoff wrote:
> On 21/07/2020 8:45 am, geoff wrote:
>> On 21/07/2020 2:13 am, John Williamson wrote:
>>
>>> while a high end home audio person will want to set stuff up once and
>>> for all, so the convenience of a Speakon isn't needed. Just bear in
>>> mind very few of them even run line level audio through balanced
>>> leads...
>>>
>>>

>>
>> Something to be iad for unbal though. One lot of line-driver
>> distortion rather than that of two devices.
>>
>> geoff

>
> Ooops "iad" = "said".
>

I got that, but the use of a balanced line reduces other problems, and
line driver distortion now is as close as makes no difference to zero.
Balanced lines at 600 ohm impedance are long established, very mature
technology. In some circumstances, a transformer is used as a special
effect to get that "warm", distorted, "analogue" sound. Even digital
signal transmission benefits from being balanced (or optical) if the
line is long, as it means the error correction is easier to do.

Unbalanced's only benefit is that it is (much) cheaper to make.

For professionals, the advantage of balanced signal connections is that
we can connect any pair of balanced items together, and it all "just
works", even over long connections (I use 25 metre microphone leads,
often with a couple of joints in them, for instance, running parallel to
a line level return in the same loom. Some on here have mentioned using
microphone leads a quarter of a mile long with no major problems.). The
only noticeable distortion is from the diaphragms inside the microphones
and monitors. Using that length of connection on an unbalanced wire only
needs someone to turn a fluorescent light on in a nearby room, and you
have interference on the signal, and as for cellphones...

The circuitry inside most professional equipment is generally balanced
all the way through, so there is no place where the circuit is unbalanced.


--
Tciao for Now!

John.
  #10  
Old July 21st 20, 11:50 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Phil Allison[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 483
Default Anything to say on Speakons

John Williamson wrote:

-----------------------

** Most of John's post is pure myth - the benefits of balanced mic lines are way overrated. ( more later)


> For professionals, the advantage of balanced signal connections is that
> we can connect any pair of balanced items together, and it all "just
> works", even over long connections (I use 25 metre microphone leads,
> often with a couple of joints in them, for instance, running parallel to
> a line level return in the same loom.


** Agreed - unbalanced *multicore" cables can be a disaster. I have seen examples of internal cross coupling causing massive supersonic oscillation in a PA system.


> Some on here have mentioned using
> microphone leads a quarter of a mile long with no major problems.).


** An unbalanced line using good RF co-ax would go much longer - long as it is driven by a low Z mic. The capacitance of such co-ax is way less and the mag field rejection is actually *better* - see note.


> The
> only noticeable distortion is from the diaphragms inside the microphones
> and monitors. Using that length of connection on an unbalanced wire only
> needs someone to turn a fluorescent light on in a nearby room, and you
> have interference on the signal, and as for cellphones...
>


** The issue here is only poor shielding, good RF co-ax ( RG58 or RG59 comes to mind) is normally well shielded.

Note: The internal symmetry of a co-ax cable is the secret to its excellent mag field rejection. Equal and opposite currents inject into the core and shield from a nearby AC mag field - so complete self cancellation.

OTOH with a twisted pair cable, the rate of twist per foot is critical to mag field rejection, but even the best will pick up hum from a supply frequency transformers when it gets too close - including the tiny ones in wall warts.

The "balanced is best" fallacy is historical nonsense based on a false comparison between a 200 ohm or 600 ohm mic and a long obsolete 50kohm one.

The ONLY real advantage of a 2 wire "balanced" mic line is when used for carrying phantom power to a mic or device that needs it ( eg a DI unit).

** Go ahead - make my day:

Make a lead using 20m or so of RG59 with an XLR at each end, wired with each pin 3 linked to pin 1. Use it with a 200 ohm mic of whatever brand.

Wind one turn around a wall wart transformer and note there is no hum.

Now, do the same with any of your twisted pair leads.

Who wins?


..... Phil



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 AudioBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.