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TheKeith
 
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Default TS/TRS balanced/unbalanced can someone explain

I'm trying to figure this all out. Can someone explain it to me. This is
what I've figured so far, but I'm not sure if I'm correct. a TS (tip-sleeve)
plug can only carry a mono signal which is unbalanced correct? A TRS
(tip-ring-sleeve) plug is used to carry either a stereo signal with two
unbalanced mono channels in the tip and sleeve, or a balanced mono channel
(which utilizes both the tip and the sleeve for the one channel of sound),
correct? Now, can someone explain to me what unbalanced/balanced means and
also, what if would want to have a balanced stereo signal--is there such a
thing? is there no need for that? As you can see, I'm confused. Help would
be appreciated--thanks.


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Arny Krueger
 
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Default TS/TRS balanced/unbalanced can someone explain

"TheKeith" wrote in message

I'm trying to figure this all out. Can someone explain it to me. This
is what I've figured so far, but I'm not sure if I'm correct. a TS
(tip-sleeve) plug can only carry a mono signal which is unbalanced
correct? A TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) plug is used to carry either a
stereo signal with two unbalanced mono channels in the tip and
sleeve, or a balanced mono channel (which utilizes both the tip and
the sleeve for the one channel of sound), correct? Now, can someone
explain to me what unbalanced/balanced means and also, what if would
want to have a balanced stereo signal--is there such a thing? is
there no need for that? As you can see, I'm confused. Help would be
appreciated--thanks.


Please see:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/AudioFAQ/pro-audio-faq/

Section III - Audio Interconnections


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TheKeith
 
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Default TS/TRS balanced/unbalanced can someone explain


Please see:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/AudioFAQ/pro-audio-faq/

Section III - Audio Interconnections


thanks Arny--just what I needed


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Todd H.
 
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Default TS/TRS balanced/unbalanced can someone explain

"TheKeith" writes:

I'm trying to figure this all out. Can someone explain it to me. This is
what I've figured so far, but I'm not sure if I'm correct. a TS (tip-sleeve)
plug can only carry a mono signal which is unbalanced correct?


Correct. It's only got 2 conductors.

A TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) plug is used to carry either a stereo signal
with two unbalanced mono channels in the tip and sleeve, or a
balanced mono channel (which utilizes both the tip and the sleeve
for the one channel of sound), correct?


Yup.

Now, can someone explain to me what unbalanced/balanced means and
also, what if would want to have a balanced stereo signal--is there
such a thing? is there no need for that? As you can see, I'm
confused. Help would be appreciated--thanks.


Unbalanced signals are single ended. There's a signal lead an a
ground.

Balanced signals use 3 conductors--a ground, a signal lead, and
another lead that carries the inverse of the signal (i.e. the signal
180 degrees out of phase).

The benefit of balanced lines is in noise cancellation over long runs
of cable--e.g. PA snakes carrying microphone level signals. Over
such a long run, a low level signal like that will get mixed with
plenty of 60Hz and 120Hz power line noise induced _common_mode_ (that
is, fairly equally across all 3 conductors). A preamp for a balanced
line uses either electronics or a transformer to do "differential
amplification" of the signal+ and signal- conductors. It amplifies
only the difference between those two lines. The beatuiful thing
there is that is amplifies the differential mode signal (since signal+
- signal- gives you 2*signal), and nicely
cancels out the common mode stuff (i.e. the 60Hz and 120Hz noise).

Feel free to ask followup questions. If you picture and draw you the
signal as a sine wave, and picture the "-" operation, you can envision
how a differential amp would squash common mode stuff, and amplify
differential mode stuff.

Best Regards,
--
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unitron
 
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Default TS/TRS balanced/unbalanced can someone explain

"TheKeith" wrote in message ...

---snip---

either a stereo signal with two
unbalanced mono channels in the tip and sleeve, or a balanced mono channel
(which utilizes both the tip and the sleeve for the one channel of sound


---snip---

A TRS used for stereo, like say the plug on the end of a headphone
cable, uses the sleeve (the longest part) as common or "ground", the
ring for one channel's "hot" (usually the right) and the tip for the
other channel's hot (usually the left).
Someone once said that the nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them. You can't always count on different brand gear
from different years agreeing on what goes to the tip and what to the
ring, but I'm going to say that sleeve is almost always "ground"
because I have yet (in nearly a half century) to see it not be, but
remember, I only said "almost always".


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TheKeith
 
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Default TS/TRS balanced/unbalanced can someone explain

Thanks everyone for your help. I see now, that for short distances, a
regular unbalanced connection will be just fine for my needs--that is to
hook up a cheap mixer to my sound card so I can record sounds from an xlr
mic. I'd been using a regular instrument cable (ts mono) with a 1/4" to 1/8"
adapter on one end to make the connection and I wasn't sure if this was
creating unwanted noise that could easily be eliminated with the simple use
of a balanced cable. It sounds fine to me as it is but I was just curious if
it could sound better.


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CJT
 
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Default TS/TRS balanced/unbalanced can someone explain

unitron wrote:

"TheKeith" wrote in message ...

---snip---


either a stereo signal with two
unbalanced mono channels in the tip and sleeve, or a balanced mono channel
(which utilizes both the tip and the sleeve for the one channel of sound



---snip---

A TRS used for stereo, like say the plug on the end of a headphone
cable, uses the sleeve (the longest part) as common or "ground", the
ring for one channel's "hot" (usually the right) and the tip for the
other channel's hot (usually the left).
Someone once said that the nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them. You can't always count on different brand gear
from different years agreeing on what goes to the tip and what to the
ring, but I'm going to say that sleeve is almost always "ground"
because I have yet (in nearly a half century) to see it not be, but
remember, I only said "almost always".


That said, the way most phone jacks are constructed, a designer would
have to go to great lengths to safely use the sleeve for anything but
ground, so I doubt you'll _ever_ see it.

--
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