[George M. Middius]

Donkey brayed:

Face facts, Witless -- the Krooborg stepped in the doo-doo again, and now
it's getting its comeuppance.

No, Arny was actually totally correct and John Atkinson has merely introduced
a red herring.

That's one possibility. The other (and much more likely) one is that
you're a doddering old fool who can't even remember the day of the week,
let alone how amplifiers perform in real-world applications.

[Eeyore]

"George M. Middius" wrote:

Donkey brayed:

Face facts, Witless -- the Krooborg stepped in the doo-doo again, and now
it's getting its comeuppance.

No, Arny was actually totally correct and John Atkinson has merely introduced
a red herring.

That's one possibility.

I'm pleased you can see that. Maybe you're not entirely brain dead ?

Graham

[George M. Middius]

Poopie tries the Kroogerian "selective editing" ploy.

Donkey brayed:

Face facts, Witless -- the Krooborg stepped in the doo-doo again, and now
it's getting its comeuppance.

No, Arny was actually totally correct and John Atkinson has merely introduced
a red herring.

That's one possibility.

I'm ... entirely brain dead...

That's the first step toward solving your problem, Donkey.

[robert casey]

George M. Middius wrote:


Poopie tries the Kroogerian "selective editing" ploy.


Donkey brayed:


Face facts, Witless -- the Krooborg stepped in the doo-doo again, and now
it's getting its comeuppance.

No, Arny was actually totally correct and John Atkinson has merely introduced
a red herring.

That's one possibility.

I'm ... entirely brain dead...


That's the first step toward solving your problem, Donkey.


I hate to interrupt this fine flame war :-) But back in the early
70's, table radios made the transision from the "All American 5ive" tube
circuit to a solid state circuit that used a high voltage bipolar
transistor and output transformer for the audio output. Looking at the
collector side of things, it behaved like a pentode. Look at the curves
of a vacuum tube pentode, and then a bipolar transistor with respect to
output current. The inputs are different (voltage vs current) but if
you ignore that, they look pretty similar. So it should be possible to
build a SS amp that sounds like a pentode amp. But that's not triode
sound...

But pentode curves are significantly different from triode curves, and
triodes tend to be many tube fans' favorite device. And it's not easy
to get a transistor to act like a triode.

[John Byrns]

In article ,
robert casey wrote:

George M. Middius wrote:


Poopie tries the Kroogerian "selective editing" ploy.


Donkey brayed:


Face facts, Witless -- the Krooborg stepped in the doo-doo again, and
now
it's getting its comeuppance.

No, Arny was actually totally correct and John Atkinson has merely
introduced
a red herring.

That's one possibility.

I'm ... entirely brain dead...


That's the first step toward solving your problem, Donkey.


I hate to interrupt this fine flame war :-) But back in the early
70's, table radios made the transision from the "All American 5ive" tube
circuit to a solid state circuit that used a high voltage bipolar
transistor and output transformer for the audio output.

I'm not sure exactly when this transition was made, but I do know that
it occurred sometime well before the "early 70's", I would say that the
transition occurred in the mid 60's, I know from personal experience
that these radios were already in production by late 66, when they first
went into production I don't know.

Looking at the
collector side of things, it behaved like a pentode. Look at the curves
of a vacuum tube pentode, and then a bipolar transistor with respect to
output current. The inputs are different (voltage vs current) but if
you ignore that, they look pretty similar. So it should be possible to
build a SS amp that sounds like a pentode amp. But that's not triode
sound...

But pentode curves are significantly different from triode curves, and
triodes tend to be many tube fans' favorite device. And it's not easy
to get a transistor to act like a triode.

I thought the common bipolar transistor was a "triode".


Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

[David Looser]

"George M. Middius" cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote in message
...

That's one possibility. The other (and much more likely) one is that
you're a doddering old fool who can't even remember the day of the week,
let alone how amplifiers perform in real-world applications.


Clearly someone for the kill-file

Bye-bye!

David.

[Jon Yaeger]

George who??


On 2/6/08 5:18 PM, in article , "David
Looser" wrote:

"George M. Middius" cmndr _ george @ comcast . net wrote in message
...

That's one possibility. The other (and much more likely) one is that
you're a doddering old fool who can't even remember the day of the week,
let alone how amplifiers perform in real-world applications.


Clearly someone for the kill-file

Bye-bye!

David.

[robert casey]

But back in the early
70's, table radios made the transision from the "All American 5ive" tube
circuit to a solid state circuit that used a high voltage bipolar
transistor and output transformer for the audio output.


I'm not sure exactly when this transition was made, but I do know that
it occurred sometime well before the "early 70's", I would say that the
transition occurred in the mid 60's, I know from personal experience
that these radios were already in production by late 66, when they first
went into production I don't know.


I was thinking of the SS radios that were "hot chassis". The audio
output transistor had about 100V B+ on it. Before these, there were
some SS radios that had small power transformers and were essentially
portable circuits inserted inside a table radio cabinet. But it's the
hot chassis high voltage transistors that ran in class A "single ended"
I was thinking of.




I thought the common bipolar transistor was a "triode".



My Chinese friends tell me that the word "transistor" translates into
"crystal triode" in Chinese. :-)

[Eeyore]

John Byrns wrote:

I thought the common bipolar transistor was a "triode".

No, it's a transistor.

Graham

[David Looser]

"robert casey" wrote in message
...

But back in the early 70's, table radios made the transision from the
"All American 5ive" tube circuit to a solid state circuit that used a
high voltage bipolar transistor and output transformer for the audio
output.


I'm not sure exactly when this transition was made, but I do know that it
occurred sometime well before the "early 70's", I would say that the
transition occurred in the mid 60's, I know from personal experience that
these radios were already in production by late 66, when they first went
into production I don't know.


I was thinking of the SS radios that were "hot chassis". The audio output
transistor had about 100V B+ on it. Before these, there were some SS
radios that had small power transformers and were essentially portable
circuits inserted inside a table radio cabinet. But it's the hot chassis
high voltage transistors that ran in class A "single ended" I was thinking
of.


That's probably why we never saw them here in the UK. There were the
occasional single-ended transistor output stages in early SS and hybrid car
radios, and some Japanese-made TV sets, but that was about it. A 300V B+
supply would have been rather too much.


I thought the common bipolar transistor was a "triode".

It's a three-electrode device, so yes, it's a triode. That doesn't mean it's
characteristics are similar to those of a thermionic triode though.



My Chinese friends tell me that the word "transistor" translates into
"crystal triode" in Chinese. :-)


Err..., "transistor" is a contraction of "transfer-resistor", but what it
*is*, is a crystal triode. So if any language group wants it's own word for
the device, rather than just adopt "transistor", then using their own words
for "crystal triode" makes a good deal of sense.

David.

[John Byrns]

In article ,
robert casey wrote:

But back in the early
70's, table radios made the transision from the "All American 5ive" tube
circuit to a solid state circuit that used a high voltage bipolar
transistor and output transformer for the audio output.


I'm not sure exactly when this transition was made, but I do know that
it occurred sometime well before the "early 70's", I would say that the
transition occurred in the mid 60's, I know from personal experience
that these radios were already in production by late 66, when they first
went into production I don't know.


I was thinking of the SS radios that were "hot chassis". The audio
output transistor had about 100V B+ on it. Before these, there were
some SS radios that had small power transformers and were essentially
portable circuits inserted inside a table radio cabinet. But it's the
hot chassis high voltage transistors that ran in class A "single ended"
I was thinking of.

Yes, it was the hot chassis sets with 100V B+, or greater, on the output
transistor that I was speaking of. IIRC the RF, IF, and low level audio
stages in these radios operated at a low, more normal transistor,
voltage obtained from the emitter circuit of the output transistor. The
B+ for the output transistor came from a rectifier connected directly to
the power line as in an AA5.


Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

[Woody[_4_]]

Many of the power transistors of the late sixties were Germanium - who
remembers the OC35 or the NKT401?

Towers transistor data manual of that time (the copy of which I still
have) had some pages labelled Geranium power transistors - who says
Flower Power didn't exist?



--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

[keithr]

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"robert casey" wrote in message
...

But back in the early 70's, table radios made the transision from the
"All American 5ive" tube circuit to a solid state circuit that used a
high voltage bipolar transistor and output transformer for the audio
output.


I'm not sure exactly when this transition was made, but I do know that
it occurred sometime well before the "early 70's", I would say that the
transition occurred in the mid 60's, I know from personal experience
that these radios were already in production by late 66, when they first
went into production I don't know.


I was thinking of the SS radios that were "hot chassis". The audio
output transistor had about 100V B+ on it. Before these, there were some
SS radios that had small power transformers and were essentially portable
circuits inserted inside a table radio cabinet. But it's the hot chassis
high voltage transistors that ran in class A "single ended" I was
thinking of.


That's probably why we never saw them here in the UK. There were the
occasional single-ended transistor output stages in early SS and hybrid
car radios, and some Japanese-made TV sets, but that was about it. A 300V
B+ supply would have been rather too much.


I thought the common bipolar transistor was a "triode".

It's a three-electrode device, so yes, it's a triode. That doesn't mean
it's characteristics are similar to those of a thermionic triode though.



My Chinese friends tell me that the word "transistor" translates into
"crystal triode" in Chinese. :-)


Err..., "transistor" is a contraction of "transfer-resistor", but what it
*is*, is a crystal triode. So if any language group wants it's own word
for the device, rather than just adopt "transistor", then using their own
words for "crystal triode" makes a good deal of sense.

David.



Somewhere around at home, I have an extremely old transistor that is marked
as "Crystal Triode". It is so old that it has a hand written serial number
on it

Keith