[[email protected]]

Hello there, I have a couple of mixing questions. I will start with
the How to get the drums in your face tricks.
I am working on a Rock band and the drums, bass, and guitars all are
sounding good. I can't seem to bus the snare and kick thru a software
compressor and back into the mix with Pro tools without hearing a
phase problem. I think the trick is called " The New York compresson
method". Seemed to work fine on an analog console with a DBX 4:1 or
as much as 10:1 . 10 to 15 db's of compression and some EQ on the
return and just bring it up until you have that sound. Anyone have
this problem with Pro Tools?
Glenn.

[Federico]

Yes, of course.
You can try this:
1) Make 2 stereo busses with the same input
2) Route your drums tracks to the stereo busses
3) Place a compressor on the first stereo bus
4) Place a delay compensator (or a compressor in "bypass") on the second bus
so that the two busses have the same delay.
5) To be sure you're doing the right thing you can check the delay on your
tracks and busses by Ctrl+Click (or Alt, or Apple, I'm not sure about it
right now) on the digits where the volume is displayed in the mix window.

F.

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
Hello there, I have a couple of mixing questions. I will start with
the How to get the drums in your face tricks.
I am working on a Rock band and the drums, bass, and guitars all are
sounding good. I can't seem to bus the snare and kick thru a software
compressor and back into the mix with Pro tools without hearing a
phase problem. I think the trick is called " The New York compresson
method". Seemed to work fine on an analog console with a DBX 4:1 or
as much as 10:1 . 10 to 15 db's of compression and some EQ on the
return and just bring it up until you have that sound. Anyone have
this problem with Pro Tools?

What makes you think it's Pro Tools and not a tracking problem? Any
time you have leakage between microphones you'll have comb filtering
problems when you mix them together, and compression will make those
problems worse by bringing the softer parts of the sound (a lot of which
is leakage) up.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On Nov 1, 8:25*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
wrote:
Hello there, I have a couple of mixing questions. I will start with
the How to get the drums in your face tricks.
I am working on a Rock band and the drums, bass, and guitars all are
sounding good. I can't seem to bus the snare and kick thru a software
compressor and back into the mix with Pro tools without hearing a
phase problem. I think the trick is called " The New York compresson
method". Seemed to work fine on * an analog console with a DBX 4:1 or
as much as 10:1 . 10 to 15 db's of compression and some EQ *on *the
return and just bring it up until you have that sound. Anyone have
this problem with Pro Tools?

What makes you think it's Pro Tools and not a tracking problem? *Any
time you have leakage between microphones you'll have comb filtering
problems when you mix them together, and compression will make those
problems worse by bringing the softer parts of the sound (a lot of which
is leakage) up.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. *C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I can bus either the sn or k to bus 1 and return it and it will have a
funny sound. I do not have to have assign both to hear the effect,
Glenn

[[email protected]]

On Nov 1, 8:33*pm, wrote:
On Nov 1, 8:25*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:



wrote:
Hello there, I have a couple of mixing questions. I will start with
the How to get the drums in your face tricks.
I am working on a Rock band and the drums, bass, and guitars all are
sounding good. I can't seem to bus the snare and kick thru a software
compressor and back into the mix with Pro tools without hearing a
phase problem. I think the trick is called " The New York compresson
method". Seemed to work fine on * an analog console with a DBX 4:1 or
as much as 10:1 . 10 to 15 db's of compression and some EQ *on *the
return and just bring it up until you have that sound. Anyone have
this problem with Pro Tools?

What makes you think it's Pro Tools and not a tracking problem? *Any
time you have leakage between microphones you'll have comb filtering
problems when you mix them together, and compression will make those
problems worse by bringing the softer parts of the sound (a lot of which
is leakage) up.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. *C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I can bus either the sn or k to bus 1 and return it and it will have a
funny sound. I do not have to have assign both to hear the effect,
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Glenn

I get this the same phase sound if I set up an aux track an run a
vocal or any track thru it and forget to hook a rev or delay up to
that channel that is set on the aux return.. I am not dumb and will
figure this one I guess, I postrd the same question on gearslutz and
one guy said to put the delay comp on and some other thoughta of
running two return comps on two return aux channels and setting one
comp on bypass. I will follow suggested steps. glenn

[HKC]

Let me see if understand what you are trying to do. You have a recorded
close mic'ed kit and you want to add compression to the kick and snare while
also keeping them in the mix uncompressed so you route these two to a bus
(by useing sends or what) for more punch.
It sounds to me like PT isn't compensating for latency so the sound coming
from the bus is slightly delayed which would give a flangy sound to the kick
and snare.
I use Logic so I don't know how things such as latency compensation is done
in PT but it must be capable of doing it but otherwise you can just route
the clean kit to another bus where you have the same plugin but with the
threshold so high that it doesn't affect the sound.

[John Phillips]

wrote:
On Nov 1, 8:33 pm, wrote:
On Nov 1, 8:25 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:



wrote:
Hello there, I have a couple of mixing questions. I will start with
the How to get the drums in your face tricks.
I am working on a Rock band and the drums, bass, and guitars all are
sounding good. I can't seem to bus the snare and kick thru a software
compressor and back into the mix with Pro tools without hearing a
phase problem. I think the trick is called " The New York compresson
method". Seemed to work fine on an analog console with a DBX 4:1 or
as much as 10:1 . 10 to 15 db's of compression and some EQ on the
return and just bring it up until you have that sound. Anyone have
this problem with Pro Tools?
What makes you think it's Pro Tools and not a tracking problem? Any
time you have leakage between microphones you'll have comb filtering
problems when you mix them together, and compression will make those
problems worse by bringing the softer parts of the sound (a lot of which
is leakage) up.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
I can bus either the sn or k to bus 1 and return it and it will have a
funny sound. I do not have to have assign both to hear the effect,
Glenn

I get this the same phase sound if I set up an aux track an run a
vocal or any track thru it and forget to hook a rev or delay up to
that channel that is set on the aux return.. I am not dumb and will
figure this one I guess, I postrd the same question on gearslutz and
one guy said to put the delay comp on and some other thoughta of
running two return comps on two return aux channels and setting one
comp on bypass. I will follow suggested steps. glenn


I assume that you are talking about ProTools LE. PTLE does not have
delay compensation, you must pay the big bucks to get that. When you
setup two different paths, there is a delay between the two tracks and
comb filtering will come into play. The software takes time to
internally move the data and add it to the bus. I noticed this where I
had setup a send to an aux for adding reverb but I forgot to add the
reverb. Like you, I got the comb filtering which took me a few minutes
to figure out what was going on. I think that the best suggestion that
was made would be to send the main track to two aux track and to have
the same number of plugs on both AUX tracks even if some of the plugs
are set to flat. This will provide the same delays for both paths. If
you still have the problem, you might try sliding one track relative to
the other to align them back up. I think that you are on the right
track, it just the way PTLE works.

John Phillips
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:

I can bus either the sn or k to bus 1 and return it and it will have a
funny sound. I do not have to have assign both to hear the effect,
Glenn

If you are sending the snare out to the compressor, and bringing it
back all by itself with nothing else, and it sounds funny, then something
is wrong somewhere and you probably are actually mixing the processed
and unprocessed signals together.

If you are sending the snare out, bringing it back, and mixing the
compressed and uncompressed signals together and getting comb filtering,
it's because of the delay on the process of sending it out to the
compressor and you can use the 'latency compensation' function to phase
advance it (it actually delays everything else) to compensate.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bobby Owsinski[_2_]]

In article
,
wrote:

Hello there, I have a couple of mixing questions. I will start with
the How to get the drums in your face tricks.
I am working on a Rock band and the drums, bass, and guitars all are
sounding good. I can't seem to bus the snare and kick thru a software
compressor and back into the mix with Pro tools without hearing a
phase problem. I think the trick is called " The New York compresson
method". Seemed to work fine on an analog console with a DBX 4:1 or
as much as 10:1 . 10 to 15 db's of compression and some EQ on the
return and just bring it up until you have that sound. Anyone have
this problem with Pro Tools?
Glenn.



I think I was the first to call side-chain compression "The New York
Compression Trick" in my book The Mixing Engineer's Handbook after
observing that engineers that grew up in New York studios all seemed to
use this method to get punchy drums.

It's a great trick, it really works, and it should work flawlessly in
any version of Protools or any other DAW.

Here's how to do it in Protools:

1) Insert a new stereo Aux Channel into your mix and send it's output to
your main output buss (usually 1 and 2)

2) Place a stereo compressor into one of the inserts. Set it to a ratio
of a minimum of 10:1 (use more if you really want it super in your
face). If you're using LE, make sure it's a native compressor so
there's no latency. If you're using HD, any compressor will work.

2a) Place an EQ in an insert after the compressor. Increase the low
shelf at 100Hz and the high shelf at 10kHz to taste (could be anywhere
from 3dB to 10dB depending upon how strong or weak your drums are
already).

3) Assign the kick, snare and toms (no cymbals, room or hat) to the aux
buss going to your drum compressor channel.

4) Set the compressor so it's squashing the signal by 10dB or so. Set
the attack and release times to moderately fast, but the exact amount
depends upon the compressor that you use.

5) Bring up the aux channel with drum compressor until your drums sound
the way you want. The most extreme would be the drum compressor channel
and the main drums are at equal volume, but usually the drum compressor
channel is way lower.

It's best to bring it up to where you can just hear it, see how it fits
in the mix, then adjust from there.

I always assign the main drums to their own master fader (or subgroup)
so it's easy to vary the level of both in the mix.


Hope this helps.

Bobby

[[email protected]]

On Nov 2, 12:58*pm, Bobby Owsinski wrote:
In article
,

wrote:
Hello there, I have a couple of mixing questions. I will start with
the How to get the drums in your face tricks.
*I am working on a Rock band and the drums, bass, and guitars all are
sounding good. I can't seem to bus the snare and kick thru a software
compressor and back into the mix with Pro tools without hearing a
phase problem. I think the trick is called " The New York compresson
method". Seemed to work fine on * an analog console with a DBX 4:1 or
as much as 10:1 . 10 to 15 db's of compression and some EQ *on *the
return and just bring it up until you have that sound. Anyone have
this problem with Pro Tools?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Glenn.

I think I was the first to call side-chain compression "The New York
Compression Trick" in my book The Mixing Engineer's Handbook after
observing that engineers that grew up in New York studios all seemed to
use this method to get punchy drums.

It's a great trick, it really works, and it should work flawlessly in
any version of Protools or any other DAW.

Here's how to do it in Protools:

1) Insert a new stereo Aux Channel into your mix and send it's output to
your main output buss (usually 1 and 2)

2) Place a stereo compressor into one of the inserts. *Set it to a ratio
of a minimum of 10:1 (use more if you really want it super in your
face). *If you're using LE, make sure it's a native compressor so
there's no latency. *If you're using HD, any compressor will work.

2a) Place an EQ in an insert after the compressor. *Increase the low
shelf at 100Hz and the high shelf at 10kHz to taste (could be anywhere
from 3dB to 10dB depending upon how strong or weak your drums are
already).

3) *Assign the kick, snare and toms (no cymbals, room or hat) to the aux
buss going to your drum compressor channel.

4) Set the compressor so it's squashing the signal by 10dB or so. *Set
the attack and release times to moderately fast, but the exact amount
depends upon the compressor that you use.

5) *Bring up the aux channel with drum compressor until your drums sound
the way you want. *The most extreme would be the drum compressor channel
and the main drums are at equal volume, but usually the drum compressor
channel is way lower.

It's best to bring it up to where you can just hear it, see how it fits
in the mix, then adjust from there.

I always assign the main drums to their own master fader (or subgroup)
so it's easy to vary the level of both in the mix.

Hope this helps.

Bobby

Thanks for the info! Like I think I said earlier I got it working last
night here at my house on my i book with LE 7.4 and the stock
compressor. It really makes the drums sound great. When I go back to
my studio monday I'm pretty sure I can get it working on that HD
system also. Because of the flange or phase problem I have not used it
in about 5 years.
I forgot how good it sounds.
Glenn.