Can anyone recommend a particular brand of archival-grade DVDRs and
CDRs? Seems that "regular" CDRs and DVDRs (e.g. the cheapies you buy in
spindles) can degrade and become unreadable in as little as 2 years.

I've heard anything gold-plated will work well, and last for decades,
if not a lifetime.

Also, what type of a marker should I be using to label DVDRs and CDRs
so as not to contribute to media degradation? I've read that one should
not use a "solvent-based" felt-tip marker. I've been using Sharpies...

What's a non-solvent based marker and where can I buy some?

I suppose another backup solution is to keep material on several
external hard drives.

dananrg wrote ...
Can anyone recommend a particular brand of archival-
grade DVDRs and CDRs? Seems that "regular" CDRs
and DVDRs (e.g. the cheapies you buy in spindles) can
degrade and become unreadable in as little as 2 years.

IMHO, it is a risky gamble at best. Field-writable optical
media are not to be trusted 2 years in my experience.
Doesn't matter whether you buy "cheapie" or "premium".
I've seen even "premium" discs that were unreadable
even immediately after writing.

I've heard anything gold-plated will work well, and last
for decades, if not a lifetime.

Good luck. You'll need it. Note that it is usually NOT the
reflective layer (aluminum vs. gold) that deteriorates, but
the light-sensitive dye layer.

But then I'm highly dubious of ANYTHING "gold-plated".
It makes me think somebody's trying to impress me with a
few molecules of gold to distract me from some other
feature where they cut the cost/quality. Witness the
"boutique" cables, etc. The cheaper it is (or the higher the
markup for the retailer), the more likely it is "gold plated"
to make you feel you're actually getting value for your $$$.

Also, what type of a marker should I be using to label
DVDRs and CDRs so as not to contribute to media
degradation? I've read that one should not use a "solvent-
based" felt-tip marker. I've been using Sharpies...

Note that there is an enormous difference between CD and
DVD media. The dye and reflective layers of a DVD are
within a (relatively) thick layer of plastic on EACH side.
You can write on a DVD with practically anything without
danger to the information. OTOH, the dye/reflective layer
of CDs are protected by a very thin layer(s) of something
screen-printed on the "label side". The data is at risk from
both mechanical and chemical hazards of writing.

What's a non-solvent based marker and where can I
buy some?

IMHO, the dye layer can't be trusted any longer than it
takes for that noxious solvent in a Sharpie to eat through
the thin layer of lacquer. i.e. it is not the writing that is
the primary source of failure.

I suppose another backup solution is to keep material
on several external hard drives.

I used to think that, also. Until I lost 6 months of editing
work :-(((

We can take a clue from people with very valuable data
and the budgets to research the best methods of saving it.
The overwhelming choice of corporate and government
caches of both tactical backup and strategic archival data
storage is digital magnetic tape.

Fortunately, I kept the original recording on digital tape
to recover from the hard drive failure and repeat all the
editing again.

But then I'm highly dubious of ANYTHING "gold-plated".
It makes me think somebody's trying to impress me with a
few molecules of gold to distract me from some other
feature where they cut the cost/quality. Witness the
"boutique" cables, etc. The cheaper it is (or the higher the

Agreed. I was immediately skeptical, which is why I asked here - and
I'm glad I did. Thank you.

Note that there is an enormous difference between CD and
DVD media. The dye and reflective layers of a DVD are
within a (relatively) thick layer of plastic on EACH side.
You can write on a DVD with practically anything without
danger to the information. OTOH, the dye/reflective layer
of CDs are protected by a very thin layer(s) of something
screen-printed on the "label side". The data is at risk from
both mechanical and chemical hazards of writing.

Didn't know that, thanks. A friend told me DVDs were more fickle /
sensitive / prone to damage. He also said to only ever store DVDRs in
separate jewel cases, due to the scratch issue.

I've heard people say you should store DVDRs in jewel cases only in the
upright position. Not sure why. Perhaps that's B.S. as well.

I suppose another backup solution is to keep material
on several external hard drives.

I used to think that, also. Until I lost 6 months of editing
work :-(((

Sorry about that. That couldn't have been uplifting.

How about a home RAID mirror, or manually mirroring 1 external hard
drive? For true paranoids, or the wise?

We can take a clue from people with very valuable data
and the budgets to research the best methods of saving it.
The overwhelming choice of corporate and government
caches of both tactical backup and strategic archival data
storage is digital magnetic tape.

Any consumer, or prosumer, grade tape-backup units you'd recommend for
storing data of any kind?

Fortunately, I kept the original recording on digital tape
to recover from the hard drive failure and repeat all the
editing again.

Nice "save". :-) I don't always enjoy a happy ending (e.g. most
mindless, Big Budget hollywood films), but in this case I'm glad your
story ended well.

Dana

Make copies of all your work every year!
Assume the worst. Use any media but copy it every year and you should be
ok...


wrote:

Can anyone recommend a particular brand of archival-grade DVDRs and
CDRs? Seems that "regular" CDRs and DVDRs (e.g. the cheapies you buy in
spindles) can degrade and become unreadable in as little as 2 years.

I've heard anything gold-plated will work well, and last for decades,
if not a lifetime.

Also, what type of a marker should I be using to label DVDRs and CDRs
so as not to contribute to media degradation? I've read that one should
not use a "solvent-based" felt-tip marker. I've been using Sharpies...

What's a non-solvent based marker and where can I buy some?

I suppose another backup solution is to keep material on several
external hard drives.

"Chel van Gennip" wrote ...
Tape units, tapes, tape care, unit care, data care, etc.
for professional magnetic tape archives is better not
compared with a DV tape (one of the least reliable
digital storage media) lying on a shelf for years.

It is interesting to note the DV has wider tracks and
lower bit-density than the formats used by your
"professional magnetic tape archives".

The tapes I have "lying on a shelf for years" are fine.
Sorry to hear about yours.

Found an intriguing article:

http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/gipwo...ilityStudy.pdf

which indicates that there really are differences between the different
approaches to CD and DVD media; silver/gold does seem to win!
Unfortunately, they don't identify the manufacturers or types which
were best. Perhaps some sleuthing can unambiguously uncover the
answers.

d.

On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 20:54:34 +0200, david morley
wrote:

Make copies of all your work every year!
Assume the worst. Use any media but copy it every year and you should be
ok...

There's an honest approach!

Julian

Would a "dry erase" marker for whiteboards - the kind made by a company
called Expo - be more gentle than a sharpie?

Advised or ill-advised?

Thanks again for all the help and ideas.

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 02:01:06 +0100, dhs wrote:

Found an intriguing article:

http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/gipwo...ilityStudy.pdf

which indicates that there really are differences between the different
approaches to CD and DVD media; silver/gold does seem to win!
Unfortunately, they don't identify the manufacturers or types which
were best. Perhaps some sleuthing can unambiguously uncover the
answers.

I found it fairly easy to guess the Taiyo Yuden and Mitsui discs in that
study. The Mitsuis are the ones that start with a high error rate that
stays almost constant for the whole test while the T-Y's start low and
remain low for a while before rapidly increasing after a certain time.
This behaviour ties in with their specified lifetime which is lower than
the Mitsui's spec.

Cheers

James.