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#41
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote in message oups.com... Arny Krueger wrote: wrote in message ups.com Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the Aren't you the sick ******* that was collecting all sorts of kiddie porn, and falsely accused others of sending it to you? Pretty clear than from this little slip that rladchap is really a troll. After all, nobody could really be quite that thick. geoff |
#42
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote in message
ps.com wrote: Then both you AND Bernard Andre are fools. Oh right, right. Why don't we add to that the names of countless other audio engineers and enthusiasts who are all aware of the audibility of fuses. I'm still waiting for that list of "world class amps" that you designed, that qualifies you to put yourself above Yves Bernard André. Yves Bernard André? Yves Bernard André! Oh, I get it, YBA brand name equipment. YBA has been around for at least a decade. http://stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/831/ YBA rose to ignominity when they came out with a CD player that *improved* the sound of CDs by illuminating a certain colored LED in its disc compartment. http://www.audaud.com/audaud/JAN02/E...uip3JAN02.html "In addition to the triple beam red laser there is a blue laser which floods the underside of the CD in blue light which actually adds optical noise. As Yves himself says " the optical noise created by the blue laser (known as "stochastic resonance".......a great name for a heavy metal band in my humble opinion!) actually permits the recovery of some information whose energy was not sufficient to drive a 0 to a 1 or the other way around". Let's not get too hung up on the fact that "stochastic resonance" is an oxymoron if there ever was one. The problem with the YBA optical players is that there are objective standards for correct recovery of the audio data on a CD. Needless to say, ideal recovery of audio data from CDs is possible without "stochastic resonance", and indeed there is no discernable benefit from this "stochastic resonance". |
#43
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
"Geoff@work" wrote in
message wrote in message oups.com... Arny Krueger wrote: wrote in message ups.com Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the Aren't you the sick ******* that was collecting all sorts of kiddie porn, and falsely accused others of sending it to you? Pretty clear than from this little slip that rladchap is really a troll. After all, nobody could really be quite that thick. Not only that, but he's obviously a sockpuppet that is being manipulated by someone that we are already being subjected to - a friend of Middius as it were. |
#45
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse? - reply to rladbury
(I really can't believe I'm replying to this... ;-) It's in the
interests of safety.) rladbury asked: What I'm still unsure about is: - What is the exact risk involved of changing the rating of a fuse (in my case, 1.6a 125v for a 500mA 250v)? Probably no "risk" as in danger to you, providing you pull the plug first! A fuse has a voltage rating because that is the maximum voltage that it is guaranteed to break, without flashing over inside. So you can't put a 125V fuse in a 250v system, but you can put a 250v fuse in a 125v system. If you use too low a voltage rating and the right sort of fault occurs then the fuse will blow, but won't actually break the current because it can pass through the now silvered layer on the inside - its like not having a fuse. The current rating is the maximum that the fuse can carry continuously without "blowing". So, if you put a 500mA fuse (i.e. 0.5A) fuse in instead of a 1.6A one it could very well blow immediately as the equipment could be taking up to 1.6A. Putting a 1.6A fuse in where it should be 500mA is giving you 1/3 of the protection that you should have. You are increasing the risk of permanent damage to the transformer primary in the event of a fault on the secondary (such as a blown rectifier going short-circuit). Note that the difference in resistance of a 500mA fuse and a 1.6A fuse is negligable as the rating depends on the composition of the wire as well as its cross-sectional area. The contact resistance is way higher. - What is the exact risk involved in using solder wire instead of the original fuse and its filament wire? (Seems to me the solder would burn at an even lower temperature, You may as well stick a nail in - effectively you don't have a fuse. The solder has a low enough resistance to not heat up enough to melt in most cases. There is a very real danger of fire in the event of a fault if you do this. If you try to use solder as a fuse it tends to explode in small firey globules of hot metal in the event of a fault. Not what you want... - Would a transformer damaged by the absence of the original fuse be audibly apparent before leaking currents and creating a risk of shock? Do you mean that the original fuse blew? If so it would probably blow a new fuse immediately. After all, that's why the original fuse blew isn't it? It *could* make the chassis live if there is an earth problem though, so the transformer should be properly tested before re-use. - How can I check to be sure my metal case is properly grounded? Are you using a 3pin mains plug? If so, a resistance test between the case and the earth pin is as close as you are going to get. It should be close to 0 ohms. It is *not safe* to do things like shorting out fuses or wrapping them in silver paper. There is no danger until a fault occurs, but then there is a very real danger of fire and even getting someone killed. Remember that the fuse has the job of breaking the current. It takes a finite time for the fuse element to heat up and blow. During that time the current into the fault is climbing higher and higher, up to a limit set by the resistance of the fault. It is quite possible to draw tens of amps through a 1A fuse for a small fraction of a second. Without the fuse that current goes through the load. Normally house wiring will have a bigger fuse further back, but that is designed to let enough current through to blow the fuse in the appliance. Consequently, if you short out a 500mA fast-blow fuse and you get a fault in the transformer primary (or in the wiring to it) it could put over a hundred amps through, say, a 13A fuse, down the lead and into the fault. You had better hope that the bigger fuse blows or the lead could set fire to your carpet or the transformer could explode (ok, its a worst case scenario, but these things *can* happen). Even worse, if the amp has a bad earth the fault could "silently" break it completely and make the case, and everything connected to it, live. That can easily kill someone but you won't know about it until you touch something and by then it could be too late. Just think of one thing to finish off though, suppose the resistance of the fuse and its connections is 0.5 ohm (*way* too high, even for a bad contact). The transformer primary impedance could be about 70 ohms for a 200VA transformer so it swamps the fuse's resistance even in that extreme case. If the maximum primary current is about 1.6A at 120V the fuse will drop 0.8 of a volt *at full power* - probably less drop than you'll get from putting the kettle on. You won't hear the difference at all if the fuse contacts are clean as the series resistance will simply be too low. If you think you can hear a difference the clean the contacts or clean your ears! Ignore anyone who tells you that there is a difference - there isn't. Don't ignore safety warnings - don't put people's lives at risk for an imaginary increase in sound quality which can be proved false both by measurement and by double-blind listening tests. -- Mick (no M$ software on here... :-) ) Web: http://www.nascom.info |
#46
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Arny Krueger wrote:
Yves Bernard André? Yves Bernard André! Oh, I get it, YBA brand name equipment. YBA has been around for at least a decade. http://stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/831/ YBA rose to ignominity when they came out with a CD player that *improved* the sound of CDs by illuminating a certain colored LED in its disc compartment. http://www.audaud.com/audaud/JAN02/E...uip3JAN02.html Wow. This is some really funny stuff. From the review: It is a little known secret that inverting your source component and bringing back absolute phase by reversing your speaker cables gives gains in sound quality........I have experimented with this and sometimes depending on the source recording there is a dramatic difference... I guess if you think reversing the polarity twice makes a difference, you'll believe anything. //Walt |
#47
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Walt wrote: wrote: wrote: Then both you AND Bernard Andre are fools. Oh right, right. Why don't we add to that the names of countless other audio engineers and enthusiasts who are all aware of the audibility of fuses. I think you'll find that the number of audio engineers who think fuses are audible is a very small minority of the total. Unless you put the fuse in your ear or something. //Walt I think you'll find the number of audiophiles who think anything you have to say on the subject is worth anything more than **** on a stick is an even smaller minority. As for the engineers who think fuses are inaudible being in the minority, to that I say, so ****ing what? How the HELL do you think advances are ever made in audio, you twit? Everyone has a mass epiphany and revelation at the same moment? ROTFLMAO! God, you people are SO bloody stupid. |
#48
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
"Walt" a écrit dans le message de news: ... wrote: All I'm asking is for information on what conditions would cause the amp to catch on fire (ie. what exactly can go wrong and what exactly is flammable inside an amp) so I can do a risk assessment and decide how likely the risk of fire is. If you understand how a fuse works yourself, you would be easily able to explain this, other than simply repeating what you've read on a printed circuit board. Hey, I'm trying to do you a favor. Put the fuse back in. That's step one. After you've done that we might be able to go on to step two. Until then, put the fuse back in. Really. //Walt Listen good sockpuppet Walt: If ever you get struck by a flash of intelligence and show that you have even the slightest clue as to what the discussion is here, then once you attempt to explain why a filament in fuse is any safer than the silver solder that I am using, and your explanation is supported by someone in the world other than you, then -maybe- I will decide to replace the fuse... that will be up to ME to decide, not you or anyone else. But if all you can do is sputter **** on a subject you know nothing about, then please SHUT UP ALREADY, as your opinion is not proven to be of any value whatsoever. Put a fork in yourself, you're DONE. |
#49
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#50
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Per Stromgren wrote: On 24 Jan 2006 11:55:29 -0800, wrote: What I'm still unsure about is: - What is the exact risk involved of changing the rating of a fuse (in my case, 1.6a 125v for a 500mA 250v)? - What is the exact risk involved in using solder wire instead of the original fuse and its filament wire? (Seems to me the solder would burn at an even lower temperature, - Would a transformer damaged by the absence of the original fuse be audibly apparent before leaking currents and creating a risk of shock? It seems that you do not know why fuses are used and how they work. Both my early teen kids know. You must either be a troll, less than 13, or very ignorant. Considering the fact that you can't explain how or why silver solder would not do as a replacement fuse, or anything else to support whatever the hell you're supposed to be asserting, maybe you need to have your kids explain how fuses work to YOU. You're the one who is either a troll or very ignorant. I don't need your condescending web links, gaychub. I didn't claim to be an expert on fuses. Why do you suppose I came here asking questions on the subject, you stupid ****wad? Nor did I come here to be condescended to be having idiots simply repeat what they read on circuit board stickers, while they understand NOTHING of the subject. There are warnings on tags on mattreses too. You mindless trolls are probably afraid to remove those too, without understanding why exactly they are there. Me, I have no tags on my mattresses, as Im not a mindless fool like you and your ****wad friends who appear to know squat about audio. If you really, really, are serious (which most of doubt, it seems) you can read about it he http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...tt/elect16.htm Per. |
#51
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Walt wrote: wrote: Yeah right. If any one of you loud-mouthed simple minded idiots had just one shred of experience or even clue of what you were talking about, you would be unrecognizable to yourselves. Try being the first fool here to PROVE one of your false assertions about people who are far superior thinkers than you are. Otherwise, you can shut the **** up. Thank you for playing Troll-O-Rama (TM) I thank you equally for playing Audio Foolapalooza (TM). You dumbass audio zealots are a riot. You're all about as predictable as George Bush peeing in his pantaloons during a terrorist strike. Your entry will be presented to our judging team for evaluation and your score and prizes (if any) should be on you way in six to eight weeks. Can I have some electret rings for my prize? You've been a wonderful contestent. Meow. Thank you for lapping it all up, little kitty kat. You,re always good for our amusement. //Walt |
#52
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
In article .com,
wrote: Listen good sockpuppet Walt: If ever you get struck by a flash of intelligence and show that you have even the slightest clue as to what the discussion is here, then once you attempt to explain why a filament in fuse is any safer than the silver solder that I am using, and your explanation is supported by someone in the world other than you, then -maybe- I will decide to replace the fuse... that will be up to ME to decide, not you or anyone else. But if all you can do is sputter **** on a subject you know nothing about, then please SHUT UP ALREADY, as your opinion is not proven to be of any value whatsoever. Put a fork in yourself, you're DONE. OK, here's a scenario for you. Let's say (without loss of generality) that your equipment has a 1-ampere 250-volt fuse in it. This fuse will allow 1 amp of AC current to flow, pretty much indefinitely, without blowing. If it's in an equipment which has no motor and not a big power supply, it'll probably be a "fast-blow" fuse which will pop quickly (within a few hundred milliseconds) if the current drawn through it exceeds the limit by a factor of 3 or more. Let's say you replace this with a length of silver solder. This solder is far thicker than a fuse filament, and will probably pass 15-20 amperes without melting and opening. Now, let's say that a fault develops in the AC primary wiring of the amp. Maybe a wire pops loose, maybe there's a hidden defect in the power transformer (bad insulation), maybe somebody upstairs lets a tub overflow and water starts dripping through the floor and runs down into the amp, etc. Somehow, some portion of the AC-connected circuitry develops an unwanted path to something grounded. Let's say that it's not a complete "dead short" circuit. There's still appreciable resistance between the AC "hot" and neutral/ground... maybe a ten ohms or so. This path is enough to allow 10 amperes of current to flow. If your original fuse is still in the amp, the fuse will blow almost instantly. Even if it's a "slow blow" fuse, an overload of this magnitude will cause it to "pop" within a couple of seconds. Because it's a 250-volt fuse, it's guaranteed not to arc-over inside the fuse at this voltage. The AC circuit opens. Nothing bad happens. If your silver-solder "fuse" is in the circuit, any of a number of Bad Things can happen: - If the silver-solder doesn't melt (and I suspect it won't), the circuit fault will be drawing a full 10 amperes of current. That's over 1200 watts of power, which will turn into heat *somewhere* - probably inside the amp itself, where the ohms of fault-resistance are. Your amp has now turned into a self-contained room-size space heater, with all the heat in the wrong place. It would not be surprising for your amp to catch fire after a few minutes. Even if it doesn't, it'll probably heat up enough to be ruined. - If the silver solder _does_ melt, there will probably be a big and messy "BZAP" and arc when it melts through, which will throw molten solder around inside the amp chassis. At best, this will probably leave solder-shorts in numerous places in the circuitry, resulting in an amp which is not repairable at a reasonable cost. At worst, the molten/vaporized metal might be sufficient to sustain the arc, and you've got a 1200-watt "arc welder" burning inside your amp for some amount of time. Again, the risk of fire is nontrivial. - If the short occurs to the chassis, and the fuse doesn't blow, then quite a lot of current could be flowing on the chassis and the ground wire in the power cord and in the house's ground wiring (and could also flow through the grounded outer braid of your A/V coax cables, into other A/V equipment, etc.). The high current can create enough of a voltage differential between the chassis and "true" ground to create a significant shock hazard, for anyone who touches the chassis. What it boils down to, really, is the idea that fuses are there for a damned good reason. Fuses are *designed* to be able to interrupt high voltage safely and reliably. There are national and professional standards for them, and their use is legally required in AC-powered equipment in most countries. Replacing a fuse with a piece of solder is the equivalent of the old "put a penny in the fusebox" trick that people joke about... but it's a joke which has resulted in *real* fires and death in the past. *REGARDLESS* of whether replacing a fuse in your amp with a piece of silver solder (or jumper wire) makes it sound better to you (for either objective or subjective reasons), doing so is risky. I really doubt that *any* licensed electrical engineer or contractor would tell you that it's a good idea, or would sanction you doing it. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
#53
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote in message
ups.com... Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the sound much improved. Then I decided to replace the 1.6a fuse with a jumper made of a silver paperclip, and found the sound improved much further. Then I replaced the paper clip with silver solder, and found it improved further (though I'm less sure about the solder being better than the clip overall...). If any of these had any effect on the sound, your amplifier has some kind of power supply defect and should be repaired. |
#54
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Dave Platt wrote:
wrote: Crap from rladbury snipped Elision of thoughtful fuse primer from Dave That was a pretty good explanation, but you do realize you're being trolled, don't you? The game is not about fuses, audio, or electricity, but an attempt to rile people up. Dave Platt Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior Interesting. I just listened to the two records I have by JW the other night. Hadn't listened to them in a decade or so. It's aged better than I thought it would have, and I might just have to get some of their stuff on CD. //Walt |
#56
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
A fuse on the power input only has two potential modes of interference
with the sound: (a) Limit the power so that it can't produce enough juice at the end, or (b) Generate some power-line distortion that's so bad the power supply can't deal with it. If the first mode were true, then the fuse would melt--that's its job! The second mode is unfeasible, because an inch-long piece of wire simply isn't complex enough or different enough to generate some magical distortion which a paperclip or silver-solder joint is less susceptible to. It's simply not possible, and anyone who claims otherwise is either deluded or trying to sell you snake oil. It's conceivable that he had a poor connection to his original fuse, which improved step by step as he substituted other things. If so, the thing to do is clean the contacts and reinstall the original fuse (or rather an electrically equivalent replacement, since if the original fuse was getting old, it may have increased in resistance). |
#57
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Walt wrote: wrote: Then both you AND Bernard Andre are fools. If Bernard Andre is able to sell his custom made fuses for 100 times what he pays for them, he's no fool. The people who buy them OTOH.... //Walt I thought everyone knew that custom fuses produce perfect sine waves for the power supply. That's why they cost so much. I'll be happy to sell him some magnets to align the hydrocarbon molecules so his auto will get better performance.Works best with the custom braided stainless steel fuel lines my brother-in-law is marketing. |
#58
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Put back the recommended fuse. There is a chance that the fuse that was
originally in the amp, was the wrong type. Read the label, or the instructions to find out the proper type and fuse size. Operating ANY device without the proper electrical protection is dangerous, in the event of a short or overload. The amp can be a fire hazard, or safety hazard if it is not properly protected. -- JANA _____ wrote in message ups.com... Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the sound much improved. Then I decided to replace the 1.6a fuse with a jumper made of a silver paperclip, and found the sound improved much further. Then I replaced the paper clip with silver solder, and found it improved further (though I'm less sure about the solder being better than the clip overall...). Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? I don't care so much about the gear blowing up, since its old gear anyway. But nor do I want a fire started when I leave the amp running all night or am not at home. In the case of the preamp, the casing is solid metal, with the integrated, its a wood casing. What are the chances of fire and how would it start? What are the chances of it blowing up and how might that occur? (so far, no problems!). Is electrical shock a risk with a fuseless amp? |
#59
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
GregS wrote: In article .com, wrote: GregS wrote: In article .com, wrote: You don't know what the fusing current will be, but it will be very erratic using a piece of solder. It is likely to be in the 10's of amps to fuse your solder. Fusing equipment is a little bit of engineering and a little bit of practical testing. The exact value can vary. One thing for sure, if any damage occurs, the insurance Co. could refrain from paying you. There is also the ladder effect. I once was sitting down and pushed a button, and a breaker 2 miles away tripped shutting down a complete satelite tracking station. Its quite an experiance. I pushed a button triggering a 75 HP electric motor, which shorted, tried to trip but fused the first breaker. This went to the next really big big breaker. Can you imagine the silence and darkness having pushed the button. It was really bright and very noisey with racks and racks of equipment and air handlers until pushing that button. So if you have a fusing problem, it can escalate problems at times. greg Just a hearty thanks for offering a reply again with sanity, respect and reason, instead of the usual blind ridicule and derision typical of those faced with concepts they dont understand and know nothing about. Although I do enjoy playing with the rabid audio techie zealots and their quaint little notions of believing they are masters in music reproduction to where they can't recognize the ignorance in themselves, it is your informative words that i actually came here looking for. You've provided me with enough information for me to make an informed decision about whether to keep this valuable tweak or (as it looks like I'll have to do....), chuck it. |
#60
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
mc wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the sound much improved. Then I decided to replace the 1.6a fuse with a jumper made of a silver paperclip, and found the sound improved much further. Then I replaced the paper clip with silver solder, and found it improved further (though I'm less sure about the solder being better than the clip overall...). If any of these had any effect on the sound, your amplifier has some kind of power supply defect and should be repaired. Sorry, the only defect is in your knowledge of audio. Ive forgotten more than you know about audio, chum, and that fuseless amp tweak I came up with works with ANYTHING; amp, preamp, cd player, etc. But I will contend that its not the safeest thing to go about using solder or other substitutes for a carefully rated amp fuse. |
#61
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
writes:
Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the sound much improved. Then I decided to replace the 1.6a fuse with a jumper made of a silver paperclip, and found the sound improved much further. Then I replaced the paper clip with silver solder, and found it improved further (though I'm less sure about the solder being better than the clip overall...). I doubt that you could hear the difference of changing the fuse, especially if you are changing the main amplifier use. I think what you heard is caused memery by the psychological effect that you though you were improving the device by changing the fuse. The original fuse is pretty low resistance already, a 500 mA fuse having typically resistance of less than 0.5 ohms and maximum voltage drop of 230 mV.. Those are pretty little when comparing to mains voltage coming in and also to the other resistances on the system (mains wiring in wall, inside equipment, mains transformer primary resistance etc..). I quess that in real life systems if changing that fuse had any noticeable effect on the audio amplifier, that amplifier was not well designed, and turnign other loads on your house on/off would have more effect on the amplifier performance than changing the fuse. Source for fuse information: http://www.cooperet.com/library/products/GMA_Specs.pdf Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? I don't care so much about the gear blowing up, since its old gear anyway. But nor do I want a fire started when I leave the amp running all night or am not at home. Running the equipment without fuse has a very considerable fire risk! If somethign fails inside your equipment (can fail more often when equipment gets old), then in case of short circuit on the electronics the equipment mains fuse normally blows before smoke starts coming out.. If you take out the fuse, then in case of short circuit your equipment starts easily taking lots of mains power... When transformer output is short circuited it can easily take 10 times more than it's rated power from mains. This power gets dissipated inside your equipment at some place (usually most in transformer, some power on wiring and component where short circuit happened)... Things will prety quicly get quite hot... bad smell amd smoke coming out.. If you are lucky the transformer primary might burn cut or your main fuse on your distribution panel blows... in less fortunate case the flames start coming out together with the smoke from your equipment. It is dangerous to run equipment without fuse or wrong size fuse. It can easily burn down your house. And if your insurance company finds out that you intentianally replaces your fuses with something else, they most definately will not pay any money to you. So if this gambling you made on operating equipment without proper fuses blows, you will need to start thinking what is to live without your house and things inside it and no compensation for them. And possibley killing/injuring/harming somebody else living on the house or nearby, and getting sued because of the illegal electrical modifications you made to your equipment that caused that fire! Th equipment are originally designed to be operated with the proper fuses installed in them. When used in this way they should be reasonably safe (very unlikely to burn down your house). If you take the fuse protection, then one very necessary layer of security is taken away. In the case of the preamp, the casing is solid metal, with the integrated, its a wood casing. What are the chances of fire and how would it start? If you operate them withotu fuse and a serious short circuit happens inside those equipment, then I think yo have soemthing like 20-50% change of getting fire on that case! That's just quessing. The percentages can vary greatly depending on their construction and their mains amplifiers. What are the chances of it blowing up and how might that occur? (so far, no problems!). Hard to say. But there are real changes. As you know from other electrical equipment, they will not last forever.. usually fail within 5-20 years more or less... Is electrical shock a risk with a fuseless amp? Not considerable grater than with properly fused amplifier I think. The fire risk is your main risk you need to worry about. -- Tomi Engdahl (http://www.iki.fi/then/) Take a look at my electronics web links and documents at http://www.epanorama.net/ |
#62
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
writes:
Walt wrote: wrote: Let me guess: It sounds much more warm without the fuse. LOL. No, I wouldn't describe it as that. Without going into minute details, the overall resolution is much higher. Question is: Exactly what risks are there in running an integrated amp or a preamp sans fuse? You could burn up the power supply, or it could catch on fire. Put the damn fuse back in. Could you describe just what condtions would cause the power supply to burn up or catch on fire (I would not have thought this component to be flammable!)? Let's think your amplifier has a transformer that is designed togive out 100W output power at 90% effeciency. So when amplifier takes 100W, then tranformer has 10W loss and this is what gets it somewhat warm (transformer takes somwehat less power loss when it not fully loaded). If the transformer secondary gots shorted (insulation on transformer secondary wires fails and thei copper ouches each other, amplifier brige rectifier fails short, transformer main storage capacitor fails short or amplifier main output transformer fail fully short...). In this case the transformer secondary is practically short circuited, and transformer tries to push as much power as it can to the output... taking this power from the input. Typically you can expect this input power become something like 10 times the nominal power power of the transformer (or somewhat more or less depending on transformer design, but 10 times is a quite good approximation for average transformer). No actual power is transported out of tranformer (output is shorted so lots of current flows but no voltage, thus no power, in actual life there is some voltage so some little power gets here as well). So that 100W transformer is now taking in 1000W of and outputting practically nothing, thus there is 1000W power heatring tht transformer that was designed to handle 10W heating power loss in it... You can think how quicly and how hot the transformer and wiring inside it quicly becomes where is one kilowatt of power heating that quite small transformer!! As I say, I've been running it a couple of hours so far and there's been no change. As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago I had previously removed the heatsink from the output transistors in order to improve the sound, and there was never any overheating problem. You stupid! Heatsinks on the output transistors are there for a very good reasons. The output transistors have considerable power loss and get hot. If you remove the heatsinks, then the transistors gets mugh hotter much sooner. When transistor gets hot it's parameters change, causing first poor operation of amplifier (worse sound easily), then starting to smell bad (your figerprints on the cases start buring...), and then transistors fail short... not always in this order. Your amplifier if you are lucky might work some time without the heatsinks if you play at very low volume... if you use higher volumes or play longer time, it is very propable that sooner or later your output transistors fail! The hotter they run the sooner they fail! So sooner or later I expect that your output transistors will fail short... this will cause quite propably a chain-reaction that would in normal case burn your amplifier fuse... When you have removed the fuse, then in this case I expect you get the smome coming out sooner or later from your autput transistors, amplifier power transformer and/or your speakers. And possibly flames soon after that.. -- Tomi Engdahl (http://www.iki.fi/then/) Take a look at my electronics web links and documents at http://www.epanorama.net/ |
#63
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
I suppose the bottom line is that if you eliminate the fuse in a piece of
equipment that was obviously designed to require one, and it starts a fire, your fire insurance doesn't cover it. |
#64
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
"Walt" wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: Yves Bernard André? Yves Bernard André! Oh, I get it, YBA brand name equipment. YBA has been around for at least a decade. http://stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/831/ YBA rose to ignominity when they came out with a CD player that *improved* the sound of CDs by illuminating a certain colored LED in its disc compartment. http://www.audaud.com/audaud/JAN02/E...uip3JAN02.html Wow. This is some really funny stuff. From the review: It is a little known secret that inverting your source component and bringing back absolute phase by reversing your speaker cables gives gains in sound quality........I have experimented with this and sometimes depending on the source recording there is a dramatic difference... I guess if you think reversing the polarity twice makes a difference, you'll believe anything. You too can become like the OP. ;-) Just takes a lobotomy... |
#65
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
mc a écrit : A fuse on the power input only has two potential modes of interference with the sound: (a) Limit the power so that it can't produce enough juice at the end, or (b) Generate some power-line distortion that's so bad the power supply can't deal with it. If the first mode were true, then the fuse would melt--that's its job! The second mode is unfeasible, because an inch-long piece of wire simply isn't complex enough or different enough to generate some magical distortion which a paperclip or silver-solder joint is less susceptible to. It's simply not possible, and anyone who claims otherwise is either deluded or trying to sell you snake oil. It's conceivable that he had a poor connection to his original fuse, which improved step by step as he substituted other things. If so, the thing to do is clean the contacts and reinstall the original fuse (or rather an electrically equivalent replacement, since if the original fuse was getting old, it may have increased in resistance). No. No. No. No. No. No. NO!!!! "Poor connection" has NOTHING to do with this phenomenon. Stop speculating on things you know nothing about. I never cease to be amazed at how wanna-be engineers and techies always either: a) DENY any changes exist in audio outside the realm of what they already know (and you all know VERY little, from my vantage point) b) OFFER what they consider more "rational theories" to explain what they are too IGNORANT to explain, or believe. Jesus, can't ONE of you idiots figure out a way to pop open an amplifier and TRY the damn tweak out for yourselves, instead of killing yourselves to argue against it??!! You've all spent so much time telling me how full of **** I am about this, yet it takes less time to actually solder a jumper bridge and LISTEN FOR YOURSELVES!! God forbid, any of you zealots actually learns something new about the "magical world of audio". Seems to me like you lazy mindless geeks don't even want to learn anything new about audio. It must scare the hell out of you. I know you're "trying" to fight your own ignorance here MC, but you're not trying hard enough. I already explained in another message in this thread that I did the same tweak to other equipment, and the results were the SAME. That rules out your stupid attempts to rationalize what you don't understand. I just listened again to my preamp, before unsoldering the jumper and permanently replacing the original fuse back in its holder. There was NO mistaking the downgrade in sound quality. Its very insulting when one is lectured to about a given subject by those with NO familiarity with the subject, who believe themselves to be experts nonetheless. Try having a 7 year old explain the meaning of life to you, and see if you can keep a straight face. That's what you look like to me! |
#66
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Dave Platt wrote: In article .com, wrote: OK, here's a scenario for you. Let's say (without loss of generality) that your equipment has a 1-ampere 250-volt fuse in it. This fuse will allow 1 amp of AC current to flow, pretty much indefinitely, without blowing. If it's in an equipment which has no motor and not a big power supply, it'll probably be a "fast-blow" fuse which will pop quickly (within a few hundred milliseconds) if the current drawn through it exceeds the limit by a factor of 3 or more. Let's say you replace this with a length of silver solder. This solder is far thicker than a fuse filament, and will probably pass 15-20 amperes without melting and opening. Now, let's say that a fault develops in the AC primary wiring of the amp. Maybe a wire pops loose, maybe there's a hidden defect in the power transformer (bad insulation), maybe somebody upstairs lets a tub overflow and water starts dripping through the floor and runs down into the amp, etc. Somehow, some portion of the AC-connected circuitry develops an unwanted path to something grounded. Let's say that it's not a complete "dead short" circuit. There's still appreciable resistance between the AC "hot" and neutral/ground... maybe a ten ohms or so. This path is enough to allow 10 amperes of current to flow. If your original fuse is still in the amp, the fuse will blow almost instantly. Even if it's a "slow blow" fuse, an overload of this magnitude will cause it to "pop" within a couple of seconds. Because it's a 250-volt fuse, it's guaranteed not to arc-over inside the fuse at this voltage. The AC circuit opens. Nothing bad happens. If your silver-solder "fuse" is in the circuit, any of a number of Bad Things can happen: - If the silver-solder doesn't melt (and I suspect it won't), the circuit fault will be drawing a full 10 amperes of current. That's over 1200 watts of power, which will turn into heat *somewhere* - probably inside the amp itself, where the ohms of fault-resistance are. Your amp has now turned into a self-contained room-size space heater, with all the heat in the wrong place. It would not be surprising for your amp to catch fire after a few minutes. Even if it doesn't, it'll probably heat up enough to be ruined. - If the silver solder _does_ melt, there will probably be a big and messy "BZAP" and arc when it melts through, which will throw molten solder around inside the amp chassis. At best, this will probably leave solder-shorts in numerous places in the circuitry, resulting in an amp which is not repairable at a reasonable cost. At worst, the molten/vaporized metal might be sufficient to sustain the arc, and you've got a 1200-watt "arc welder" burning inside your amp for some amount of time. Again, the risk of fire is nontrivial. - If the short occurs to the chassis, and the fuse doesn't blow, then quite a lot of current could be flowing on the chassis and the ground wire in the power cord and in the house's ground wiring (and could also flow through the grounded outer braid of your A/V coax cables, into other A/V equipment, etc.). The high current can create enough of a voltage differential between the chassis and "true" ground to create a significant shock hazard, for anyone who touches the chassis. What it boils down to, really, is the idea that fuses are there for a damned good reason. Fuses are *designed* to be able to interrupt high voltage safely and reliably. There are national and professional standards for them, and their use is legally required in AC-powered equipment in most countries. Replacing a fuse with a piece of solder is the equivalent of the old "put a penny in the fusebox" trick that people joke about... but it's a joke which has resulted in *real* fires and death in the past. *REGARDLESS* of whether replacing a fuse in your amp with a piece of silver solder (or jumper wire) makes it sound better to you (for either objective or subjective reasons), doing so is risky. I really doubt that *any* licensed electrical engineer or contractor would tell you that it's a good idea, or would sanction you doing it. But my local engineer or contractor HELPED me solder the jumper wire across the fuse holder contacts? (Just kidding!). Thanks for taking the time to explain in detail the many ways I might fry using solder for a fuse bridge. Although honestly, I think your doomsday scenarios are a little far fetched and unlikely to occur (ie.: were talking about equipment thats over 25 years old; if there was a defect in production, I think 25 years is enough to flush it out!), there's enough here for me to have reconsidered the idea of operating the equipment without the fuse. And thanks for showing the intelligence of saying the audibility of the fuse may exist for objective reasons. That's more than I can say for most respondents here, all of which have never conducted the same experiments that I have. -- Dave Platt AE6EO Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
#67
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Walt wrote: Dave Platt wrote: wrote: Crap from rladbury snipped Elision of thoughtful fuse primer from Dave That was a pretty good explanation, I agree, and at least Dave was ABLE to explain the problem, which doesn't say much about you, except that you have a big mouth and talk for nothing. but you do realize you're being trolled, don't you? The game is not about fuses, audio, or electricity, but an attempt to rile people up. So let me see if I understand your point: I never posted on this group before. I come asking a question about an operation on my amplifier, so I can make a more informed decision for myself, thinking this would be a good place to ask a technical question concerning an audio amplifer, since the group IS named "rec.audio.TECH".. I barely mention in passing the reason why I wish to perform said operation, which by no fault of my own, turns out to be an audible phenomenon outside the religious audio beliefs of you and your RAT comrades. The reason I wish to perform this operation offends the lot of you imbeciles so much, that you and your zealots then proceed to jump all over me and my post for even thinking of doing what I was thinking of doing, for the reasons I was thinking of doing it. All the while completely ignoring the original technical query I had. Then I ask you to either respond to the technical query or shut the hell up and stop contributing to my thread. Okay... now we've finally reached your brilliant conclusion, Walt: I must be a "troll" here to rile you up. You must be one of those pathetic losers that call women "bitches" because they don't want to have anything to do with you. It sounds to me like YOU'RE the troll here playing games, given the above facts. Including the fact that you no doubt spend your life on newsgroups like this. No matter. Given the level of stupidity you've shown, I doubt your life would be more productive otherwise. When you can actually come up with something other than vigorous assertions to explain why you have a difference of opinion about a given audio phenomen, sockpuppet Walt, then you might have something to add to a newsgroup. Until then, you're better off shutting the **** up, like I told you the last time. You only make yourself look stupider by the minute. |
#68
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote: Walt wrote: wrote: Then both you AND Bernard Andre are fools. If Bernard Andre is able to sell his custom made fuses for 100 times what he pays for them, he's no fool. The people who buy them OTOH.... //Walt I thought everyone knew that custom fuses produce perfect sine waves for the power supply. That's why they cost so much. I'll be happy to sell him some magnets to align the hydrocarbon molecules so his auto will get better performance.Works best with the custom braided stainless steel fuel lines my brother-in-law is marketing. Okay, I realize you're just another imbecile with a big mouth and you can't back up anything you say against anything I've said, but now you've gone too far. When you try to ridicule both me AND Yves Bernard André, a man so much smarter and successful than you that you're not worthy of having him **** in your face, I have to ask: WHERE the **** is the world class audiophile amplifier that YOU designed, to be able to say he's full of ****? I for one would like to give it a listen. And how exactly do you rationalize criticizing one high end designer for what you claim is cheating the public, while happy to say that you would gladly do the same? You really have no idea of how lame you are, do you? |
#69
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
mc wrote: I suppose the bottom line is that if you eliminate the fuse in a piece of equipment that was obviously designed to require one, and it starts a fire, your fire insurance doesn't cover it. No problems there, then. I don't have fire insurance. |
#71
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#72
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Tomi Holger Engdahl
25 jan 07:35 afficher les options writes: Did some experiments on the fuse of my amp... I replaced a 500mA 250v fuse with a 1.6a 125v fuse and found the sound much improved. Then I decided to replace the 1.6a fuse with a jumper made of a silver paperclip, and found the sound improved much further. Then I replaced the paper clip with silver solder, and found it improved further (though I'm less sure about the solder being better than the clip overall...). I doubt that you could hear the difference of changing the fuse, especially if you are changing the main amplifier use. Yeah right. You and all the other queenies on this group, who've gone to great lengths to attack me for this, because it defies your stupid old religious beliefs. There are enough of you shouting "You are not hearing differences, you are hearing placebos...", that you sound like a chorus of drooling imbeciles to me. But I didn't ask for your opinion or anyone else's on the question of whether the fuse tweak is audible or not, did I? Unlike you and your cabal of religious audio zealots, I have a mind of my own and a pair of ears that go with it. I can decide for myself. Since you HAVEN'T heard the effects of this yourself, do yourself a favor and shut your ****ing trap about things you know nothing about, next time you offer your opinion on something to someone. If you did ever want to learn something new and not just repeat what you're told, it would have taken you less time to conduct the same experiment I did and find out for yourself, than it did to formulate your response here. I think what you heard is caused memery by the psychological effect that you though you were improving the device by changing the fuse. aka "placebo". Yeah, I get it, Einstein. You're a dumbass ****wit who thinks the world begins and ends with the very limited amount of information you've learned about electronics. You don't know just how ignorant you are and how little you know about audio. Im sure you know more about electronics, but Ive forgotten more about music reproduction than you now know. But since you think you're smarter than the top engineer at YBA, why don't you name the world class amp YOU designed, so I can have a listen and compare it? Just to make it easy on you, I'll compare it to YBAs ****tiest amplifier. If you haven't designed anything better, then there's another reason for you to shut the **** up about things you know nothing about. I quess that in real life systems if changing that fuse had any noticeable effect on the audio amplifier, that amplifier was not well designed, and turnign other loads on your house on/off would have more effect on the amplifier performance than changing the fuse. Wrong guess. I already mentioned elsewhere that I did the same fuse substitution thing to my other amp, my cd player, etc., it all had the same effect of improving the sound. Like I also said elsewhere in this thread, you wanna-be engineers always rationalize things you don't understand, because they don't follow what you think is true according to your religious beliefs in audio (and which often, isn't). STOP guessing and do the damn experiment for yourself, or shut up already. "Guessing" is what people did when they tried to explain why the sky was leaking, you blithering idiot. "Science" is what led the more developed man to experiment, find out where the truth lies, and stop the ****ing guessing. Why is why I will always be way ahead of the (audio) game than you and your RAT zealots here. It is dangerous to run equipment without fuse or wrong size fuse. It can easily burn down your house. And if your insurance company finds out that you intentianally replaces your fuses with something else, they most definately will not pay any money to you. So if this gambling you made on operating equipment without proper fuses blows, you will need to start thinking what is to live without your house and things inside it and no compensation for them. And possibley killing/injuring/harming somebody else living on the house or nearby, and getting sued because of the illegal electrical modifications you made to your equipment that caused that fire! But I think the important thing here is, "Jesus will forgive me". Hey, if He can forgive a child pornographer like Arny Krueger, I'm sure he can forgive me for wanting to improve the sound of my audio system. I'm not worried about the insurance company paying out, since I don't have an insurance policy. I.m not worried about getting sued, since the lawyers would cost more than anything they could ever hope to get out of me. I'm not worried about killing my neighbors, since I hate my neighbors (they have a baby kid thats CONSTANTLY crying all the time - just shutting him up for good might be worth the damage to my property). And as for that property in question, well I'm currently developing a "volunatry simplicity" approach, and I'm not attached to material things any more. So maybe having my things destroyed is exactly what I need to free myself. Spiritually speaking. And as my dear old dad always said, "if you never gamble, you never win". Hard to say. But there are real changes. As you know from other electrical equipment, they will not last forever.. usually fail within 5-20 years more or less... Maybe todays cheap **** gear, but both these SS amps are over 25 years old, and they don't look to be close to failing. As I say, I've been running it a couple of hours so far and there's been no change. As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago I had previously removed the heatsink from the output transistors in order to improve the sound, and there was never any overheating problem. You stupid! Now that's very rude of you to call me names like that. Especially when YOU'RE the ignorant **** who pretends to be an expert on issues that you clearly don't know what the hell you're talking about. As we shall see below.... Heatsinks on the output transistors are there for a very good reasons. The output transistors have considerable power loss and get hot. If you remove the heatsinks, then the transistors gets mugh hotter much sooner. When transistor gets hot it's parameters change, causing first poor operation of amplifier (worse sound easily), then starting to smell bad (your figerprints on the cases start buring...), and then transistors fail short... not always in this order. I'm sorry that reality has a way of proving the theoretical world in which you live to be WRONG you ignoramus, but you can stop blabbing now, because nothing you've said here has turned out to be true. This is what I try to drum into the heads of you dumbass wanna-be techies: when you have NO real-world experience of what you're talking about, and you just repeat by rote whatever the hell you've read in Popular Electronics, that does not make you an expert on ANYTHING. I can tell you without flinching that a month ago, I took out the heatsinks in both the aforementioned preamp and amplifier (the amp had a particularly massive heatsink, and an equally massive output transistor array). Why? Because I thought it'd improve the sound. And it most certainly DID. In BOTH components. So that already shoots down your theoretical BS about "worse sound easily". I also removed a wire that was screwed into the large output transistor array (soldered at the other end to the underside of the circuit board). I don't know what that was for (some sort of grounding I would presume), but I do know that removing it from the surface of the output transistor further improved the sound. Next, about the heat: there WAS none. I carefully monitored the heat output in both the amp and preamp after I took the heatsink out. There was very little, if any, warmth coming through the grill in the casing above the heatsink. Thats pretty much normal for this amp, it never got hot. I played music through the amp all night to test it out, it was fine the next day. I even touched the output transistors with my bare fingers after leaving both components on for hours. Guess what, dumbo? They were no hotter than warm. No "bad smell" (well, no worse than with this stuff already smelled like!). So much for all your stupid bull**** about how they'll get "much hotter much sooner" and I will fry my amp. The only thing you wrote that was correct here, is that the parameters change when transistors get hotter (but NOT in the ways you predicted). I already knew that from experiences with my Class A amp. That's why I took out the heatsinks in the first place, genius. Well, Tomi, I hope you've learned something here about what you don't know about audio. And if not, then you're even stupider than I give you credit for. Your amplifier if you are lucky might work some time without the heatsinks if you play at very low volume... if you use higher volumes or play longer time, it is very propable that sooner or later your output transistors fail! The hotter they run the sooner they fail! Yeah, yeah, blah blah blah... see above for why you are a presuptious fool, and don't know what you're talking about. Ive worked this amp for over a month without heatsink at loud volumes, day and night, never had a problem. Im so confident it has no detrimental effect on the amp, Ive already thrown out the heatsink. My concnlusion is that sometimes these things are added in order to prevent failures when used in a variety of ways, but just because theyre desinged in, does not mean they're always needed. And ive PROVEN they can do more harm than good. Lets see one of you crackerheads actually prove ANYTHING that youve been saying. So sooner or later I expect that your output transistors will fail short... this will cause quite propably a chain-reaction that would in normal case burn your amplifier fuse... Wrong again, chumly. If they haven't burnt out after playing loud music for a months time, then they're simply not going to (not for reasons of overheating, since they dont get that hot!). Surely you must tire of being wrong all the time... The only chain reaction I see is that when one of you posts some ignorant BS to me, it incites another to do the same. When you have removed the fuse, then in this case I expect you get the smome coming out sooner or later from your autput transistors, amplifier power transformer and/or your speakers. And possibly flames soon after that.. The only flames I see is from the RATs on this newsgroup because I dared say something in their presence that contradicts all of your inane religious beliefs.... -- Tomi Engdahl (http://www.iki.fi/then/) Take a look at my electronics web links and documents at http://www.epanorama.net/ |
#73
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote in message fuse bridge. Although honestly, I think your doomsday scenarios are a little far fetched and unlikely to occur (ie.: were talking about equipment thats over 25 years old; if there was a defect in production, I think 25 years is enough to flush it out!), Um, equipment faults are not usually 'defects in production'. They are also anomolies that can develop of time as components age, mis-use scenarios stress components over time, a sudden mis-use scenario occurs, or some external agent causes the equipment's integrity to be compromised. If these things weren't possible we wouldn't need fuses or CBs in power switchboards either..... hey, now THATs an idea - let's bridge those out too - should sound SO much better ! Again, none of this is rocket science,a nd is well understood by most kids by the time they leave school.... geoff |
#74
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote in message oups.com... wrote: Who said I made amplifiers? I do work for the largest fuse manufacturer in the worls however... Do your speaker cables have little arrows on them too Bob? No, but my fuses do. I put them there after realizing the fuses sound better one way more than the other. Bet you didn't learn THAT from your fancy ass big time "fuse manufacturer". P.T. Barnum sure was right... ....when he said "a little education is a dangerous thing"... You are obviously confusing fuses for diodes. geoff |
#75
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote in message oups.com... Yeah right. You and all the other queenies on this group, who've gone to great lengths to attack me for this, because it defies your stupid old religious beliefs. You are the one with relgious beliefs. We are objective. geoff |
#76
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Per Stromgren wrote: On 25 Jan 2006 10:49:47 -0800, wrote: Jesus, can't ONE of you idiots If we are such idiots, why do you ask *us* questions? You're obviously too stupid to understand the subtleties of ANYTHING, aren't you? You've taken my comments about your stupidity OUT OF CONTEXT (look up what this means, idiot). My words dont work that way. In doing so, you are trying to twist my meaning, in order to appear to win an argument you're engaging in with me. I came here to ask a -technical- question only. I got met immediately with hostility and insults. Yet I did NOT ask what people thought about the audibility of this or that, because I know better than to try to engage in a meaningful debate with low level wanna-be engineers and techie zealots. Its like trying to convince a Jehovas Witness that God doesn't actually exist. The bottom line of the problem is, that you RATs think that you are "smart", if not brilliant, because have read technical information on audio, and that anyone that hasn't, must succumb to whatever you believe... because only you "understand how it all works". You then (predicatably) proceed to ridicule and deride anyone that says ANYTHING not conforming to your understanding of "how it all works" in audio. The more they hold on to their opinions, the more you try to ridicule them -- instead of keeping an open mind and trying to understand the phenomenon (that is new to you) any further, for your own educational purposes. So I call you "stupid" not because I think I know everything about audio and you don't. I call you "stupid" because YOU think you know everything about audio, and that I don't. (RATs here in this thread have stupidly said I dont even understand the basic function of what a fuse is, and what its doing in a piece of audio equipement...). And I also call you people "stupid", because every single one of you that mocked me for even thinking fuses have an audible effect, provided not a SINGLE shred of evidence to back up your groundless assertion. Yet, this is EXACTLY what you people would demand of others in a debate. You simply dismissed the very notion of me being correct on this, with nothing but your stupid vigorous denials. Not a SINGLE ONE OF YOU has actually tested my fuse tweak. And yet you have no end of stupid opinions about it. THIS, my friend, is what makes you people STUPID. The dogmatic adherence to a preconceived set of beliefs, the fight and refusal to let go of any of them, even if it might take 2 minutes of your time to determine their validity. Of course, you take stupid to new levels, by then arguing that even if one of you idiots could figure out how to perform the tweak experiment (ie. which device opens the amp cover and where the fuse holder lies...), you wouldn't do it anyway, because you would just be putting yourself under the spell of the infamous "placebo effect".... Now THAT is why I call you stupid. Because it isn't idiots like you that advance the state of audio, since you fools have already fooled yourself into believing that the only audible effects in audio is what is already known by the majority. Which brings me to another reason I call you people stupid: having the sheer idiocy to mock and criticize Yves Bernard André, a successful audiophile engineer on the forefront of the business, when none of you idiots have ever designed an audiophile amplfiier that comes close to sounding like his worst effort in your entire lives. All you wanna-be engineer idiots can do is reveal yourselves to be jealous of an audio engineer who is infintely more succesful and smarter than you people are. And who KNOWS, as I do, that fuses have an audible quality (although I did not do my tweak based on his knowledge, since I only learned about the custom fuses in his amps after I did my experiment). If there isn't enough here for me to explain how and why you and your zealot buddies are imbeciles, please let me know, and I'll elaborate further. Ive really only touched the surface of the extent of what fools you people are. It seems from my point of view that you are the one having a rather limited amount of IQ. Of course it does. No surprise there. But consider this: if you ARE the idiot I say you are, how the **** would you know? Remember, you're too much of a fool to realize what an idiot you are, and that I might know something about audio that you're too stupid to know or find out for yourself. Here's a clue for you: So far, I'm the ONLY ONE HERE that has anything close to "proof" that validates what I'm saying. You have provided NONE. Ergo, you're just another idiot on the net, flapping your gums. The ones you call "idiots" haven proven over and over again to be rather clever... We haven't seen such proof about you, I'm afraid. Are you playing games again? Where the **** in this thread has any of you idiots "proven over and over again" that your vigorous denials about the audibility of fuses have been proven true? I'm sorry I must have missed the details of the trials. Show me the posts that I missed that contained the so-called "proof", idiot. Because all I've seen in 60 messages is a confederacy of religious audio dunces all arguing about how full of **** I am, without bothering to offer a shred of anything to argue against it. My vote goes for troll. He doesn't even have the guts to tell us his name. It doesn't surprise me that you're too stupid to read a message header either. Hint: its not at the bottom..... My vote goes for mindless imbecile, and that's all you've proven yourself to be. Per. |
#77
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
Geoff@work wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Yeah right. You and all the other queenies on this group, who've gone to great lengths to attack me for this, because it defies your stupid old religious beliefs. You are the one with relgious beliefs. We are objective. geoff You wouldnt know the meaning of the term "objective" if it slapped you in the face, you stupid ****. All you idiots have managed to do in this thread is reveal what fools that you really are. You've argued violently against an experiment I made, but not provided ANY objective evidence to support your foolish and false assertions. I went to the trouble to ask several of you clowns to do your own OBJECTIVE experiment since you were too stupid to provide any evidence against mine. Not ONE of you ever took up the offer. Furthermore, you people reveal the sort of twisted insane logic that fuels all of your belief systems. In numerous examples in this thread, people have made positive conclusions from a negative. In one example, a conclusion was made that I'm a "troll" (whatever that is), because you can not find evidence to suggest that I am not. Other examples of this logic abound. I wouldn't trust you religious zealots to run objective trials on whether rainwater falls from the sky. You would probably conclude that because you dont SEE the exact location of where its coming from, it might be flowing up toward the sky from the ground. That concludes that the geeks on this newsgroup all form a cabal of religious zealotry on the topic of audio, that no outside idea can penetrate. Trust me, its nothing new. You are the same sort of people that previously concluded in past times that "compact disc sound is perfect sound forever", that speaker or interconnect cables all sound the same, and that basically, everything sounds the same unless its broken or otherwise defective. God I would hate to be the unlucky person to be invited to listen to the stereo systems of any of the idiots Ive seen on this newsgroup. Given the idiocy of your belief systems in audio, it must be the ****tiest experience anyone can have listening to music. You probably think anyone that doesnt buy the cheapest garbage system from Walmart is a sucker, because everything sounds the same.... ROTFLMAO!! |
#78
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote: Per Stromgren wrote: On 25 Jan 2006 10:49:47 -0800, wrote: Jesus, can't ONE of you idiots If we are such idiots, why do you ask *us* questions? You're obviously too stupid to understand the subtleties of ANYTHING, aren't you? You've taken my comments about your stupidity OUT OF CONTEXT (look up what this means, idiot). My words dont work that way. In doing so, you are trying to twist my meaning, in order to appear to win an argument you're engaging in with me. I came here to ask a -technical- question only. I got met immediately with hostility and insults. Yet I did NOT ask what people thought about the audibility of this or that, because I know better than to try to engage in a meaningful debate with low level wanna-be engineers and techie zealots. Its like trying to convince a Jehovas Witness that God doesn't actually exist. The bottom line of the problem is, that you RATs think that you are "smart", if not brilliant, because have read technical information on audio, and that anyone that hasn't, must succumb to whatever you believe... because only you "understand how it all works". You then (predicatably) proceed to ridicule and deride anyone that says ANYTHING not conforming to your understanding of "how it all works" in audio. The more they hold on to their opinions, the more you try to ridicule them -- instead of keeping an open mind and trying to understand the phenomenon (that is new to you) any further, for your own educational purposes. So I call you "stupid" not because I think I know everything about audio and you don't. I call you "stupid" because YOU think you know everything about audio, and that I don't. (RATs here in this thread have stupidly said I dont even understand the basic function of what a fuse is, and what its doing in a piece of audio equipement...). And I also call you people "stupid", because every single one of you that mocked me for even thinking fuses have an audible effect, provided not a SINGLE shred of evidence to back up your groundless assertion. Yet, this is EXACTLY what you people would demand of others in a debate. You simply dismissed the very notion of me being correct on this, with nothing but your stupid vigorous denials. Not a SINGLE ONE OF YOU has actually tested my fuse tweak. And yet you have no end of stupid opinions about it. THIS, my friend, is what makes you people STUPID. The dogmatic adherence to a preconceived set of beliefs, the fight and refusal to let go of any of them, even if it might take 2 minutes of your time to determine their validity. Of course, you take stupid to new levels, by then arguing that even if one of you idiots could figure out how to perform the tweak experiment (ie. which device opens the amp cover and where the fuse holder lies...), you wouldn't do it anyway, because you would just be putting yourself under the spell of the infamous "placebo effect".... Now THAT is why I call you stupid. Because it isn't idiots like you that advance the state of audio, since you fools have already fooled yourself into believing that the only audible effects in audio is what is already known by the majority. Which brings me to another reason I call you people stupid: having the sheer idiocy to mock and criticize Yves Bernard André, a successful audiophile engineer on the forefront of the business, when none of you idiots have ever designed an audiophile amplfiier that comes close to sounding like his worst effort in your entire lives. All you wanna-be engineer idiots can do is reveal yourselves to be jealous of an audio engineer who is infintely more succesful and smarter than you people are. And who KNOWS, as I do, that fuses have an audible quality (although I did not do my tweak based on his knowledge, since I only learned about the custom fuses in his amps after I did my experiment). If there isn't enough here for me to explain how and why you and your zealot buddies are imbeciles, please let me know, and I'll elaborate further. Ive really only touched the surface of the extent of what fools you people are. It seems from my point of view that you are the one having a rather limited amount of IQ. Of course it does. No surprise there. But consider this: if you ARE the idiot I say you are, how the **** would you know? Remember, you're too much of a fool to realize what an idiot you are, and that I might know something about audio that you're too stupid to know or find out for yourself. Here's a clue for you: So far, I'm the ONLY ONE HERE that has anything close to "proof" that validates what I'm saying. You have provided NONE. Ergo, you're just another idiot on the net, flapping your gums. The ones you call "idiots" haven proven over and over again to be rather clever... We haven't seen such proof about you, I'm afraid. Are you playing games again? Where the **** in this thread has any of you idiots "proven over and over again" that your vigorous denials about the audibility of fuses have been proven true? I'm sorry I must have missed the details of the trials. Show me the posts that I missed that contained the so-called "proof", idiot. Because all I've seen in 60 messages is a confederacy of religious audio dunces all arguing about how full of **** I am, without bothering to offer a shred of anything to argue against it. My vote goes for troll. He doesn't even have the guts to tell us his name. It doesn't surprise me that you're too stupid to read a message header either. Hint: its not at the bottom..... My vote goes for mindless imbecile, and that's all you've proven yourself to be. Per. I bow to your superior knowledge. I salute your ability to rant incoherently. You have shown us all to be imbeciles. { insert .gif file of swine levitating horizontally } |
#79
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
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#80
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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How safe operating an amp with no fuse?
wrote: wrote: mc wrote: I suppose the bottom line is that if you eliminate the fuse in a piece of equipment that was obviously designed to require one, and it starts a fire, your fire insurance doesn't cover it. No problems there, then. I don't have fire insurance. What is the actual model and make of the equipment you've modified? Why, are you an insurance claims adjuster? I dont believe it matters, but I dont mind saying: the amp is a Technics SA-80, the preamp in question is a Hitachi HCA-8300. And no, this is NOT what I use in my stereo system! Other than your ears,have you done any measurements to substantiate the "sounds better" claim of your jumpered safety device? FIrst of all, Im gonna point out that didn't make any official "suonds better claim". I came here asking a technical question, and mentioned the audibility of the fuse in passing in the course of explaining my query. But yes, if you want it to be official, I will make the "claim" that "no fuses sound better than fuses". Now since YOU and your religious cohorts are the ones that picked apart my query and attacked me because of what I mentioned in passing, since YOU are the ones that have a problem with this, then what the hell measurements have YOU done to substantiate YOUR claims that fuses can not possibly have an audible effect? Hell, I haven't even seen one of you mindless imbeciles actually test this out, let alone take measurements on a test bench!!! It's sounds like your modding a late 70's early 80's unit. Brilliant deduction. Especially given that I said in this thread the gear is about 25 years old or more. Good luck finding replacement parts when it does start to glow. Well I havent destroyed it in a blazing inferno, even after a months time of operating it without a heatsink. You might be disappointed to learn that I also didnt destroy it after placing the amp in a deep freezer the last two days (in another valiant effort to improve the sound...). Id say shes a tough old bird, the Technics. But if it does go, Im quite sure I could replace the amp easier than you could replace that blob of **** you call a "brain", chumly. Feel free to throw some derogatory remarks my way too :-) Okay, dickweed. Since everyone else here has felt free to throw derogatory remarks MY way when I asked an innocent technical question about amplifiers with no undue disrespect toward anyone, I have no problems with this. ****face. By the way if you don't own the dwelling and it's multi-unit, you'll be paying for the damages when it does start the fire, hopefully only destroying property and not lives. Interesting that you say "WHEN it does start the fire", like as if you KNOW it will, in all your RAT smugness. But thats what idiots do, isn't it? Assume thing to be true, when they may not be. I dont mind "destroying lives", since I have a smoke detector and it would just be the lives of my annoying neighbors (with their equally annoying crying babies), who probably don't have one. But I admit I would feel a loss if I destroyed my old Tecnichs amp. But not anything that I couldnt replace with 20 bucks. And dont you think 20 bucks is worth paying in the name of scientific advances in audio? Of course you dont, you conservative nitwit. Thats why people like me will always be advancing the great state of our hobby, and people like you will always... ....well, youll always be able to sit back and live your life on a newsgroup, pretending you know everything when you dont, and deriding those who fall within your radar and make "claims" as you call them, that conflict with your religious beliefs. Oh but I forogt... you dont believe you have any, do you? |
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