I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm
not sure where to start.

I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all the
necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will settle
for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes.

I should mention that the speakers will be used in a smallish room, 11x16
feet and that I have congenital hearing damage (about 40% right ear, 20%
left ear) and I have difficulty distinguishing midrange sounds; so
spending lots of money would be a waste anyway. I actually have extremely
good hearing at high frequencies. The speakers will be built to match an
existing entertainment center (height will be ~40-50", width 8-10", depth
can be whatever).

Can anyone point me in the right direction?
--
Mac Cool

Mac Cool wrote:
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm
not sure where to start.

I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all the
necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will settle
for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes.

I should mention that the speakers will be used in a smallish room, 11x16
feet and that I have congenital hearing damage (about 40% right ear, 20%
left ear) and I have difficulty distinguishing midrange sounds; so
spending lots of money would be a waste anyway. I actually have extremely
good hearing at high frequencies. The speakers will be built to match an
existing entertainment center (height will be ~40-50", width 8-10", depth
can be whatever).

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

www.ebay.com
George

Mac Cool wrote:
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm
not sure where to start.

I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all the
necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will settle
for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes.

I should mention that the speakers will be used in a smallish room, 11x16
feet and that I have congenital hearing damage (about 40% right ear, 20%
left ear) and I have difficulty distinguishing midrange sounds; so
spending lots of money would be a waste anyway. I actually have extremely
good hearing at high frequencies. The speakers will be built to match an
existing entertainment center (height will be ~40-50", width 8-10", depth
can be whatever).

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

www.ebay.com
George

Mac Cool wrote:
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm
not sure where to start.

Start by buying drivers, getting Dickason's Loudspeaker Cookbook. Expect
to build a couple dozen different designs before you get a sense of how you
want things voiced.

Dickason's book gives clean cookbook directions for all of the standard
alignments. If you know the driver parameters, you can figure the sort of
cabinet and the cabinet volume that is appropriate. You can estimate the
general system response using his math. This is by no means enough to get
a sense of how things work and a huge amount of cut and try work is going
to be needed.

I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all the
necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will settle
for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes.

If you don't actually want to learn to design speakers, why not build a
kit? Madisound makes a number of nice kit speakers, where they supply
cabinet plans and drivers.

The problem with doing this is that you basically can't listen to the things
before building them (unless you visit Madisound in Wisconsin). And since
speakers all have huge amounts of coloration, you don't have a sense of
whether the compromises made are the ones you'd like. The Madisound designs
are all good ones, but they are all different and they might not be the ones
for you.

I should mention that the speakers will be used in a smallish room, 11x16
feet and that I have congenital hearing damage (about 40% right ear, 20%
left ear) and I have difficulty distinguishing midrange sounds; so
spending lots of money would be a waste anyway. I actually have extremely
good hearing at high frequencies. The speakers will be built to match an
existing entertainment center (height will be ~40-50", width 8-10", depth
can be whatever).

If you have a hearing problem, it would seem to me that you want speakers
voiced to exaggerate the sounds you have trouble hearing, and that would
mean things much more customized for your taste even than normal.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mac Cool wrote:
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm
not sure where to start.

Start by buying drivers, getting Dickason's Loudspeaker Cookbook. Expect
to build a couple dozen different designs before you get a sense of how you
want things voiced.

Dickason's book gives clean cookbook directions for all of the standard
alignments. If you know the driver parameters, you can figure the sort of
cabinet and the cabinet volume that is appropriate. You can estimate the
general system response using his math. This is by no means enough to get
a sense of how things work and a huge amount of cut and try work is going
to be needed.

I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all the
necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will settle
for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes.

If you don't actually want to learn to design speakers, why not build a
kit? Madisound makes a number of nice kit speakers, where they supply
cabinet plans and drivers.

The problem with doing this is that you basically can't listen to the things
before building them (unless you visit Madisound in Wisconsin). And since
speakers all have huge amounts of coloration, you don't have a sense of
whether the compromises made are the ones you'd like. The Madisound designs
are all good ones, but they are all different and they might not be the ones
for you.

I should mention that the speakers will be used in a smallish room, 11x16
feet and that I have congenital hearing damage (about 40% right ear, 20%
left ear) and I have difficulty distinguishing midrange sounds; so
spending lots of money would be a waste anyway. I actually have extremely
good hearing at high frequencies. The speakers will be built to match an
existing entertainment center (height will be ~40-50", width 8-10", depth
can be whatever).

If you have a hearing problem, it would seem to me that you want speakers
voiced to exaggerate the sounds you have trouble hearing, and that would
mean things much more customized for your taste even than normal.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter,
midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be
easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the
only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the
book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker
building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book
so I'm
not sure where to start.

I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all
the
necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will
settle
for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes.

You're not crazy, but you're not being sensible about this. You can
buy excellent speakers for $200/pr. If you need big and
floorstanding, you can still stay under $200, and you will get more
speaker than you're likely to get building it yourself.

Norm Strong

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter,
midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be
easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the
only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the
book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker
building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book
so I'm
not sure where to start.

I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all
the
necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will
settle
for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes.

You're not crazy, but you're not being sensible about this. You can
buy excellent speakers for $200/pr. If you need big and
floorstanding, you can still stay under $200, and you will get more
speaker than you're likely to get building it yourself.

Norm Strong

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm
not sure where to start.

Vance Dickason's "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" strikes an excellent balance
between beginner-friendliness and technical sophistication, rather more so
IMHO than Weems's. The criticisms in the Amazon review are, I think,
overstated. Oh, and for a very reasonable fee the folks at Madisound will
design a crossover for whatever drivers you want.

Peace,
Paul

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm
not sure where to start.

Vance Dickason's "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" strikes an excellent balance
between beginner-friendliness and technical sophistication, rather more so
IMHO than Weems's. The criticisms in the Amazon review are, I think,
overstated. Oh, and for a very reasonable fee the folks at Madisound will
design a crossover for whatever drivers you want.

Peace,
Paul

Scott Dorsey:

Start by buying drivers, getting Dickason's Loudspeaker Cookbook.
Expect to build a couple dozen different designs before you get a
sense of how you want things voiced.

Dickason's book gives clean cookbook directions for all of the
standard alignments. If you know the driver parameters, you can
figure the sort of cabinet and the cabinet volume that is
appropriate. You can estimate the general system response using his
math. This is by no means enough to get a sense of how things work
and a huge amount of cut and try work is going to be needed.

I think it is a case of I don't know what I don't know. I know there are
formulas for figuring out the box size and I know that speakers sound
differently. Listening to speakers at an audio store I hear big
differences between speaker pairs. Usually many of them sound good, even
if I do like one pair more than another. It would seem like there would
be a way to tune a speaker after building the boxes, without having to
start all over.

I don't know how you calculate the box size for 2 way or 3 way speakers.
Do you just add up the individual calculation or is it more complex?

If you don't actually want to learn to design speakers, why not build
a kit? Madisound makes a number of nice kit speakers, where they
supply cabinet plans and drivers.

I considered building a kit but they are priced well outside my budget.
Here is an example of what I'm looking for:
http://www.madisound.com/eton11_2.html but they are $1K+/pair. I could
buy floor speakers for less, probably not as good quality, but the
difference may be lost on me anyway.

If you have a hearing problem, it would seem to me that you want
speakers voiced to exaggerate the sounds you have trouble hearing,
and that would mean things much more customized for your taste even
than normal. --scott

Per the hearing loss, I actually demphasize the midrange and emphasize
the higher and lower frequencies. Exggerating the sounds I cannot hear
only 'muddies' the music more. Of course my experience is limited to
fairly lowend equipment.
--
Mac Cool

Scott Dorsey:

Start by buying drivers, getting Dickason's Loudspeaker Cookbook.
Expect to build a couple dozen different designs before you get a
sense of how you want things voiced.

Dickason's book gives clean cookbook directions for all of the
standard alignments. If you know the driver parameters, you can
figure the sort of cabinet and the cabinet volume that is
appropriate. You can estimate the general system response using his
math. This is by no means enough to get a sense of how things work
and a huge amount of cut and try work is going to be needed.

I think it is a case of I don't know what I don't know. I know there are
formulas for figuring out the box size and I know that speakers sound
differently. Listening to speakers at an audio store I hear big
differences between speaker pairs. Usually many of them sound good, even
if I do like one pair more than another. It would seem like there would
be a way to tune a speaker after building the boxes, without having to
start all over.

I don't know how you calculate the box size for 2 way or 3 way speakers.
Do you just add up the individual calculation or is it more complex?

If you don't actually want to learn to design speakers, why not build
a kit? Madisound makes a number of nice kit speakers, where they
supply cabinet plans and drivers.

I considered building a kit but they are priced well outside my budget.
Here is an example of what I'm looking for:
http://www.madisound.com/eton11_2.html but they are $1K+/pair. I could
buy floor speakers for less, probably not as good quality, but the
difference may be lost on me anyway.

If you have a hearing problem, it would seem to me that you want
speakers voiced to exaggerate the sounds you have trouble hearing,
and that would mean things much more customized for your taste even
than normal. --scott

Per the hearing loss, I actually demphasize the midrange and emphasize
the higher and lower frequencies. Exggerating the sounds I cannot hear
only 'muddies' the music more. Of course my experience is limited to
fairly lowend equipment.
--
Mac Cool

normanstrong:

You're not crazy, but you're not being sensible about this. You can
buy excellent speakers for $200/pr. If you need big and
floorstanding, you can still stay under $200, and you will get more
speaker than you're likely to get building it yourself.

I'll look around. I haven't found any floor speakers under $700 that I
really liked. There is definitely a difference between shelf speakers and
floor speakers and I like the floor speakers better. The floor speakers
have 'bigger' sound, that's the best I can describe it.

I have seen pictures of a medium sized speaker that has two woofers,
over/under and a tweeter in the middle. The design seems popular online
but I haven't seen any like that locally. Maybe I'm going to the wrong
shops. I'm wondering how those sound compared to floor speakers.
Like these: http://www.madisound.com/froymk3.html
--
Mac Cool

normanstrong:

You're not crazy, but you're not being sensible about this. You can
buy excellent speakers for $200/pr. If you need big and
floorstanding, you can still stay under $200, and you will get more
speaker than you're likely to get building it yourself.

I'll look around. I haven't found any floor speakers under $700 that I
really liked. There is definitely a difference between shelf speakers and
floor speakers and I like the floor speakers better. The floor speakers
have 'bigger' sound, that's the best I can describe it.

I have seen pictures of a medium sized speaker that has two woofers,
over/under and a tweeter in the middle. The design seems popular online
but I haven't seen any like that locally. Maybe I'm going to the wrong
shops. I'm wondering how those sound compared to floor speakers.
Like these: http://www.madisound.com/froymk3.html
--
Mac Cool

Paul Stamler:

Vance Dickason's "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" strikes an excellent
balance between beginner-friendliness and technical sophistication,
rather more so IMHO than Weems's. The criticisms in the Amazon review
are, I think, overstated. Oh, and for a very reasonable fee the folks
at Madisound will design a crossover for whatever drivers you want.

That's two votes for Dickason's book. I'll see if I can find it at Barnes
& Noble.
--
Mac Cool

Paul Stamler:

Vance Dickason's "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" strikes an excellent
balance between beginner-friendliness and technical sophistication,
rather more so IMHO than Weems's. The criticisms in the Amazon review
are, I think, overstated. Oh, and for a very reasonable fee the folks
at Madisound will design a crossover for whatever drivers you want.

That's two votes for Dickason's book. I'll see if I can find it at Barnes
& Noble.
--
Mac Cool

Yes...

--
Steven Sena
XS Sound Recording
www.xssound.com

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm
not sure where to start.

I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all the
necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will settle
for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes.

I should mention that the speakers will be used in a smallish room, 11x16
feet and that I have congenital hearing damage (about 40% right ear, 20%
left ear) and I have difficulty distinguishing midrange sounds; so
spending lots of money would be a waste anyway. I actually have extremely
good hearing at high frequencies. The speakers will be built to match an
existing entertainment center (height will be ~40-50", width 8-10", depth
can be whatever).

Can anyone point me in the right direction?
--
Mac Cool

Yes...

--
Steven Sena
XS Sound Recording
www.xssound.com

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm
not sure where to start.

I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all the
necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will settle
for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes.

I should mention that the speakers will be used in a smallish room, 11x16
feet and that I have congenital hearing damage (about 40% right ear, 20%
left ear) and I have difficulty distinguishing midrange sounds; so
spending lots of money would be a waste anyway. I actually have extremely
good hearing at high frequencies. The speakers will be built to match an
existing entertainment center (height will be ~40-50", width 8-10", depth
can be whatever).

Can anyone point me in the right direction?
--
Mac Cool

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
: normanstrong:
:
: You're not crazy, but you're not being sensible
about this. You can
: buy excellent speakers for $200/pr. If you need
big and
: floorstanding, you can still stay under $200, and
you will get more
: speaker than you're likely to get building it
yourself.
:
: I'll look around. I haven't found any floor speakers
under $700 that I
: really liked. There is definitely a difference
between shelf speakers and
: floor speakers and I like the floor speakers better.
The floor speakers
: have 'bigger' sound, that's the best I can describe
it.
:
: I have seen pictures of a medium sized speaker that
has two woofers,
: over/under and a tweeter in the middle. The design
seems popular online
: but I haven't seen any like that locally. Maybe I'm
going to the wrong
: shops. I'm wondering how those sound compared to
floor speakers.
: Like these: http://www.madisound.com/froymk3.html
: --
: Mac Cool

Mack:

I have been building speakers for 30 years. Yes you can
do it, but if you are doing it to save money and not
just building up a kit, you will be disappointed. If
you peruse it for years and have a scientific type
inquisitiveness you very well may wind up with speakers
no one can touch at any price. It is kind of like
building a boat. Sure you can do it, but you gotta ask
yourself why. Do I want to fish or become a boat
builder?

Phil
www.philsaudio.com

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
: normanstrong:
:
: You're not crazy, but you're not being sensible
about this. You can
: buy excellent speakers for $200/pr. If you need
big and
: floorstanding, you can still stay under $200, and
you will get more
: speaker than you're likely to get building it
yourself.
:
: I'll look around. I haven't found any floor speakers
under $700 that I
: really liked. There is definitely a difference
between shelf speakers and
: floor speakers and I like the floor speakers better.
The floor speakers
: have 'bigger' sound, that's the best I can describe
it.
:
: I have seen pictures of a medium sized speaker that
has two woofers,
: over/under and a tweeter in the middle. The design
seems popular online
: but I haven't seen any like that locally. Maybe I'm
going to the wrong
: shops. I'm wondering how those sound compared to
floor speakers.
: Like these: http://www.madisound.com/froymk3.html
: --
: Mac Cool

Mack:

I have been building speakers for 30 years. Yes you can
do it, but if you are doing it to save money and not
just building up a kit, you will be disappointed. If
you peruse it for years and have a scientific type
inquisitiveness you very well may wind up with speakers
no one can touch at any price. It is kind of like
building a boat. Sure you can do it, but you gotta ask
yourself why. Do I want to fish or become a boat
builder?

Phil
www.philsaudio.com

anybody-but-bush:

I have been building speakers for 30 years. Yes you can
do it, but if you are doing it to save money and not
just building up a kit, you will be disappointed. If
you peruse it for years and have a scientific type
inquisitiveness you very well may wind up with speakers
no one can touch at any price. It is kind of like
building a boat. Sure you can do it, but you gotta ask
yourself why. Do I want to fish or become a boat
builder?

The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of
boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take
years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats
before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers.

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car
speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can
sound great.
--
Mac Cool

anybody-but-bush:

I have been building speakers for 30 years. Yes you can
do it, but if you are doing it to save money and not
just building up a kit, you will be disappointed. If
you peruse it for years and have a scientific type
inquisitiveness you very well may wind up with speakers
no one can touch at any price. It is kind of like
building a boat. Sure you can do it, but you gotta ask
yourself why. Do I want to fish or become a boat
builder?

The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of
boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take
years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats
before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers.

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car
speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can
sound great.
--
Mac Cool

Mac Cool wrote:

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error.

I read an interview with Richard Heyser wherein he said when he first
thought to mess with speakers he imagined he'd just overwhelm their
problems with physics. Shortly thereafter he came to an understanding
that absent advanced art, physics wouldn't do it.

Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists?

Of course they are to some extent, but more than that, they are often
people who have learned how to listen.

Car speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can
sound great.

Uhhh... no, they do not sound "great", if greatness be accuracy, and
listening to stuff that does sound more accurate can help adjust that
perception.

--
ha

Mac Cool wrote:

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error.

I read an interview with Richard Heyser wherein he said when he first
thought to mess with speakers he imagined he'd just overwhelm their
problems with physics. Shortly thereafter he came to an understanding
that absent advanced art, physics wouldn't do it.

Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists?

Of course they are to some extent, but more than that, they are often
people who have learned how to listen.

Car speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can
sound great.

Uhhh... no, they do not sound "great", if greatness be accuracy, and
listening to stuff that does sound more accurate can help adjust that
perception.

--
ha

anybody-but-bush wrote:

It is kind of like
building a boat. Sure you can do it, but you gotta ask
yourself why. Do I want to fish or become a boat
builder?

Therein lies the key.

anybody-but-bush wrote:

It is kind of like
building a boat. Sure you can do it, but you gotta ask
yourself why. Do I want to fish or become a boat
builder?

Therein lies the key.

Mac Cool wrote:

I think it is a case of I don't know what I don't know. I know there are
formulas for figuring out the box size and I know that speakers sound
differently. Listening to speakers at an audio store I hear big
differences between speaker pairs. Usually many of them sound good, even
if I do like one pair more than another. It would seem like there would
be a way to tune a speaker after building the boxes, without having to
start all over.

You can change box volume and venting. You can shrink the box volumes,
anyway. You can fiddle with crossover points. But if you suddenly discover
that you can't stand spitty dome tweeters (and plenty of folks seem happy
with them but they drive me up the wall), and you have a design based around
one, you're going to have to go back.

And yes, there are big differences between commercial designs, which is
where the problems come in. Speakers are so much a personal preference.

I don't know how you calculate the box size for 2 way or 3 way speakers.
Do you just add up the individual calculation or is it more complex?

On a two-way system, the tweeter is most often a sealed box itself, and
the box equations only relate to the woofer. So half of the math has been
done for you. In a three-way system where you have the woofer and the
midrange driver sharing a box, they interact with one another. And that
is where you want the fudge factors in the Dickason book.

If you have a hearing problem, it would seem to me that you want
speakers voiced to exaggerate the sounds you have trouble hearing,
and that would mean things much more customized for your taste even
than normal. --scott

Per the hearing loss, I actually demphasize the midrange and emphasize
the higher and lower frequencies. Exggerating the sounds I cannot hear
only 'muddies' the music more. Of course my experience is limited to
fairly lowend equipment.

So, ever listened to a single full-range 8" driver? It'll cost you ten
bucks to buy one from Quam, and you can play with different cabinets.
You won't have much top or bottom extension, but it might be an inexpensive
way to start, if your goal is to have fun and learn about speaker design.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mac Cool wrote:

I think it is a case of I don't know what I don't know. I know there are
formulas for figuring out the box size and I know that speakers sound
differently. Listening to speakers at an audio store I hear big
differences between speaker pairs. Usually many of them sound good, even
if I do like one pair more than another. It would seem like there would
be a way to tune a speaker after building the boxes, without having to
start all over.

You can change box volume and venting. You can shrink the box volumes,
anyway. You can fiddle with crossover points. But if you suddenly discover
that you can't stand spitty dome tweeters (and plenty of folks seem happy
with them but they drive me up the wall), and you have a design based around
one, you're going to have to go back.

And yes, there are big differences between commercial designs, which is
where the problems come in. Speakers are so much a personal preference.

I don't know how you calculate the box size for 2 way or 3 way speakers.
Do you just add up the individual calculation or is it more complex?

On a two-way system, the tweeter is most often a sealed box itself, and
the box equations only relate to the woofer. So half of the math has been
done for you. In a three-way system where you have the woofer and the
midrange driver sharing a box, they interact with one another. And that
is where you want the fudge factors in the Dickason book.

If you have a hearing problem, it would seem to me that you want
speakers voiced to exaggerate the sounds you have trouble hearing,
and that would mean things much more customized for your taste even
than normal. --scott

Per the hearing loss, I actually demphasize the midrange and emphasize
the higher and lower frequencies. Exggerating the sounds I cannot hear
only 'muddies' the music more. Of course my experience is limited to
fairly lowend equipment.

So, ever listened to a single full-range 8" driver? It'll cost you ten
bucks to buy one from Quam, and you can play with different cabinets.
You won't have much top or bottom extension, but it might be an inexpensive
way to start, if your goal is to have fun and learn about speaker design.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Speakers building is a great hobby. It combines several different kind
of knowledge/habilities : Mathematics, electrical/electronic, wood
working... you also need a good ear and some musical taste too! To the
beginner, this is certainly easier to build decent loudspeakers than to
build say, a decent power amplifier.

I'd second the recommandation on the Dickason book. It's a necessity.

However, you will find that your 200$ budget is limiting. For just
about double you'd have considerably better quality and choices. I
designed a reference quality home speaker system for about a grand in
drivers alone, which is not exactly a fortune, but of course remains
five time more than your projected budget).

--
Eric (Dero) Desrochers
http://homepage.mac.com/dero72

Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

Speakers building is a great hobby. It combines several different kind
of knowledge/habilities : Mathematics, electrical/electronic, wood
working... you also need a good ear and some musical taste too! To the
beginner, this is certainly easier to build decent loudspeakers than to
build say, a decent power amplifier.

I'd second the recommandation on the Dickason book. It's a necessity.

However, you will find that your 200$ budget is limiting. For just
about double you'd have considerably better quality and choices. I
designed a reference quality home speaker system for about a grand in
drivers alone, which is not exactly a fortune, but of course remains
five time more than your projected budget).

--
Eric (Dero) Desrochers
http://homepage.mac.com/dero72

Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95

Mac Cool wrote:

The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of
boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take
years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats
before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers.

You haven't actually built a boat, have you?

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car
speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can
sound great.

Perhaps your definition of "sounding great" is different than mine.

If you find car stereo speakers you like, buy them and put them in a box.
Don't make me listen to them, please. But if it makes you happy, go with it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mac Cool wrote:

The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of
boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take
years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats
before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers.

You haven't actually built a boat, have you?

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car
speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can
sound great.

Perhaps your definition of "sounding great" is different than mine.

If you find car stereo speakers you like, buy them and put them in a box.
Don't make me listen to them, please. But if it makes you happy, go with it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

hank alrich wrote:
Mac Cool wrote:

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error.

I read an interview with Richard Heyser wherein he said when he first
thought to mess with speakers he imagined he'd just overwhelm their
problems with physics. Shortly thereafter he came to an understanding
that absent advanced art, physics wouldn't do it.

But, imagine what it must have been like designing speakers before the
Thiele-Small theory! It's really fascinating to read some of the old
Altec application notes from the days when there was only a rather vague
grip on the whole device physics... they have tables and tables of
empirical fudge factors.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

hank alrich wrote:
Mac Cool wrote:

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error.

I read an interview with Richard Heyser wherein he said when he first
thought to mess with speakers he imagined he'd just overwhelm their
problems with physics. Shortly thereafter he came to an understanding
that absent advanced art, physics wouldn't do it.

But, imagine what it must have been like designing speakers before the
Thiele-Small theory! It's really fascinating to read some of the old
Altec application notes from the days when there was only a rather vague
grip on the whole device physics... they have tables and tables of
empirical fudge factors.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mac Cool wrote:

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car
speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can
sound great.

Well, some of them sound great.

It's not trial & error (unless you make it that way). But specs can only
tell you so much. The first speakers you build will undoubtedly make
sound. So that's a start, at least. They might even sound pretty good (if
you get hold of a good design & are meticulous in your workmanship. But
it's very doubtful that they will sound exactly like you expected them to
(that's the trial & error part).

But it sounds like you really REALLY want to make your own speakers. So I
say "Have at it". Worst thing that can happen is you learn something & end
up with an extra set of speakers for your work room. Well, actually the
worst thing is you might cut off a finger or two, but we're hoping you'll
be more careful than that. In any event, what you learn about speakers
will probably be worth your time & money.

Mac Cool wrote:

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car
speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can
sound great.

Well, some of them sound great.

It's not trial & error (unless you make it that way). But specs can only
tell you so much. The first speakers you build will undoubtedly make
sound. So that's a start, at least. They might even sound pretty good (if
you get hold of a good design & are meticulous in your workmanship. But
it's very doubtful that they will sound exactly like you expected them to
(that's the trial & error part).

But it sounds like you really REALLY want to make your own speakers. So I
say "Have at it". Worst thing that can happen is you learn something & end
up with an extra set of speakers for your work room. Well, actually the
worst thing is you might cut off a finger or two, but we're hoping you'll
be more careful than that. In any event, what you learn about speakers
will probably be worth your time & money.

Here's a suggestion: Start with something small, rather than a big tower
system. A two-way speaker with a 6-1/2" Vifa woofer and a 1" Vifa tweeter is
a nice start. (They're a lot less spitty than much of the competition.) Get
Madisound to design you a 4th-order (24dB/octave) crossover, buy all the
parts from them and build the thing. Use Dickason's book to choose a box
size -- for a first project, I think do a sealed box, and go for a Qtc of
about .7. Use good wood -- either MDF or Baltic Birch -- and damp the walls
with sidewalk-separator panels. Stuff with Dacron, about 1 lb per cubic foot
of space, which you can buy at a fabric store. Avoid fiberglass, unless you
like to itch.

Once you've built it, listen; it'll probably sound pretty good, maybe a
little bass-shy because it's a 6" in a closed box, but experimenting with
room placement will help. More important, you'll have figured out whether
you think this is a hell of a lot of fun, or a hell of a pain in the ass. If
the latter, well, you've got some decent small speakers for the bedroom, and
you can go buy something for the living room. (Check out Phase Technology
for stuff that's better'n usual bang for the buck.) If the former,
congratulations; you're hooked. Start plotting the towers.

Peace,
Paul

Here's a suggestion: Start with something small, rather than a big tower
system. A two-way speaker with a 6-1/2" Vifa woofer and a 1" Vifa tweeter is
a nice start. (They're a lot less spitty than much of the competition.) Get
Madisound to design you a 4th-order (24dB/octave) crossover, buy all the
parts from them and build the thing. Use Dickason's book to choose a box
size -- for a first project, I think do a sealed box, and go for a Qtc of
about .7. Use good wood -- either MDF or Baltic Birch -- and damp the walls
with sidewalk-separator panels. Stuff with Dacron, about 1 lb per cubic foot
of space, which you can buy at a fabric store. Avoid fiberglass, unless you
like to itch.

Once you've built it, listen; it'll probably sound pretty good, maybe a
little bass-shy because it's a 6" in a closed box, but experimenting with
room placement will help. More important, you'll have figured out whether
you think this is a hell of a lot of fun, or a hell of a pain in the ass. If
the latter, well, you've got some decent small speakers for the bedroom, and
you can go buy something for the living room. (Check out Phase Technology
for stuff that's better'n usual bang for the buck.) If the former,
congratulations; you're hooked. Start plotting the towers.

Peace,
Paul

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
: anybody-but-bush:
:
: I have been building speakers for 30 years. Yes you
can
: do it, but if you are doing it to save money and
not
: just building up a kit, you will be disappointed.
If
: you peruse it for years and have a scientific type
: inquisitiveness you very well may wind up with
speakers
: no one can touch at any price. It is kind of like
: building a boat. Sure you can do it, but you gotta
ask
: yourself why. Do I want to fish or become a boat
: builder?
:
: The difference is that a person can do some research,
decide what kind of
: boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build
it. It might take
: years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have
to build a dozen boats
: before you get one to float; as has been suggested
with speakers.

Floating is equivelent to making noise. Buying plans is
equivelent of building a kit. You want good sound?
That is like building a raceing boat, for racing in a
lake or a defferent one for the ocean etc. You are
probably going to make a lot of mods based on each
excursion into the water.
:
: Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker
building has to be
: trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are
perfectionists? Car
: speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic
covers and they can
: sound great.

Nothing is going to stop you from slapping some drivers
in a box and letting them rip. If you do a good job on
the box it may even float.

Phil Abbate
http://philsaudio.com/enthusiast.htm
: --
: Mac Cool

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
: anybody-but-bush:
:
: I have been building speakers for 30 years. Yes you
can
: do it, but if you are doing it to save money and
not
: just building up a kit, you will be disappointed.
If
: you peruse it for years and have a scientific type
: inquisitiveness you very well may wind up with
speakers
: no one can touch at any price. It is kind of like
: building a boat. Sure you can do it, but you gotta
ask
: yourself why. Do I want to fish or become a boat
: builder?
:
: The difference is that a person can do some research,
decide what kind of
: boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build
it. It might take
: years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have
to build a dozen boats
: before you get one to float; as has been suggested
with speakers.

Floating is equivelent to making noise. Buying plans is
equivelent of building a kit. You want good sound?
That is like building a raceing boat, for racing in a
lake or a defferent one for the ocean etc. You are
probably going to make a lot of mods based on each
excursion into the water.
:
: Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker
building has to be
: trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are
perfectionists? Car
: speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic
covers and they can
: sound great.

Nothing is going to stop you from slapping some drivers
in a box and letting them rip. If you do a good job on
the box it may even float.

Phil Abbate
http://philsaudio.com/enthusiast.htm
: --
: Mac Cool

Try this link
http://ldsg.snippets.org/idx.php3
Phil Abbate
www. philsaudio.com

"Paul Stamler" wrote in
message
...
: Here's a suggestion: Start with something small,
rather than a big tower
: system. A two-way speaker with a 6-1/2" Vifa woofer
and a 1" Vifa tweeter is
: a nice start. (They're a lot less spitty than much of
the competition.) Get
: Madisound to design you a 4th-order (24dB/octave)
crossover, buy all the
: parts from them and build the thing. Use Dickason's
book to choose a box
: size -- for a first project, I think do a sealed box,
and go for a Qtc of
: about .7. Use good wood -- either MDF or Baltic
Birch -- and damp the walls
: with sidewalk-separator panels. Stuff with Dacron,
about 1 lb per cubic foot
: of space, which you can buy at a fabric store. Avoid
fiberglass, unless you
: like to itch.
:
: Once you've built it, listen; it'll probably sound
pretty good, maybe a
: little bass-shy because it's a 6" in a closed box,
but experimenting with
: room placement will help. More important, you'll have
figured out whether
: you think this is a hell of a lot of fun, or a hell
of a pain in the ass. If
: the latter, well, you've got some decent small
speakers for the bedroom, and
: you can go buy something for the living room. (Check
out Phase Technology
: for stuff that's better'n usual bang for the buck.)
If the former,
: congratulations; you're hooked. Start plotting the
towers.
:
: Peace,
: Paul
:
: