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Anything you think was consistently done better in the past in thepro/commercial recording world than how it's done today?



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 27th 20, 02:17 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey
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Default Anything you think was consistently done better in the past in thepro/commercial recording world than how it's done today?

> wrote:
>I'm talking about what one would label as the pro world of recording of material for mass consumption.
>
>Is there anything about a particular arena of recording - pop, classical, opera, TV news, film, etc. - whatever - that you find lacking compared to an earlier era despite all the technology? Or do you think audio recording is at its zenith now?


In the late eighties I worked with a producer in Atlanta who assured me
that the music of the early seventies was the best ever, and that nothing
better would ever be achieved. His argument was that it was the drugs
that made the music what it was and "you can't get stuff like that any
more." He had a long list of products from quaaludes to gorilla
tranquilizers that he claimed were the key to the fine music of the era.

Personally I don't agree with this, but I was doing classical music at
the time. Drugs did not appear on the classical scene until much later.
--scott


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  #13  
Old August 27th 20, 05:03 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Les Cargill[_5_]
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Default Anything you think was consistently done better in the past inthe pro/commercial recording world than how it's done today?

Trevor wrote:
> On 26/08/2020 2:54 pm, geoff wrote:
>> On 26/08/2020 4:48 pm, wrote:
>>> I'm talking about what one would label as the pro world of recording
>>> of material for mass consumption.
>>> Is there anything about a particular arena of recording - pop,
>>> classical, opera, TV news, film, etc. - whatever - that you find
>>> lacking compared to an earlier era despite all the technology? Or do
>>> you think audio recording is at its zenith now?

>>
>> Recording technology is certainly at its zenith - one can achieve
>> whatever one wants, for better or for worse, and
>> recording/production/delivery is nearer to the actual acoustic (where
>> appropriate) that ever in the past.

>
> I would agree, but I know plenty of people still argue tape is better
> than digital. Or valve amps are superior to solid state (and not just
> guitar amps) Or vinyl is better than CD. Or classic mics are superior
> etc.


Those are mostly objectively wrong; it's not hard to define and
demonstrate the defects. Even guitar amps are this way these days;
Pat Quilter's made a big dent and modelling is all but
indistinguishable from the real thing.

> So I'm sure you could have an endless debate with those people if
> that's what you are after. These people simply don't get the difference
> between *personal preference*, artistic *choices*, and actual
> superiority of performance.
>


All they have to say is "workflow" and we're good to go. There's nothing
wrong with fetishism but insisting on your ... kink as correct
is when the eyebrows go up.

>
>> Whether or not 'most' of the music is as creative or worthy of
>> admiration is up for debate ...

>
> Well at least that is *really* debatable! But once again it is more
> about personal preference.
>
>
>


IMO? There's too much money in (pop) music now for it to be any good.
There's zero tolerance for risk. Any risk would need to be justified on
a "social media" or other marketing basis.

Same for theater.

Same for film.

Same for books.

There's good music out there but it's hard to find.

--
Les Cargill



  #14  
Old August 27th 20, 04:16 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Scott Dorsey
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Default Anything you think was consistently done better in the past inthe pro/commercial recording world than how it's done today?

Les Cargill > wrote:
>Why is all the pop music quantixed to death? Answer: artists
>are fungible and replaceable ( and may not even be able to play their
>own stuff ) and producers make up the balance. Quantization better fits
>that risk profile. See Rick Beato on Youtube for details ( "How
>Computers Ruined Music")


That's how pop music has always been. Menudo. The Monkees.

Hell, just about any time any actress sang in a Hollywood movie, her
voice was replaced with Marni Nixon's.

>Why is the dialogue in film way too low in level and unintelligible?


Because we don't have big dubbing stages any more. People mix films in
tiny closets so that the mix will translate into someone's living room.
Show that film in a big auditorium with a second reverb time and you
won't be able to make out any of the words.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #15  
Old August 27th 20, 06:12 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Don Pearce[_3_]
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Default Anything you think was consistently done better in the past in the pro/commercial recording world than how it's done today?

On 27 Aug 2020 15:16:26 -0000, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Hell, just about any time any actress sang in a Hollywood movie, her
>voice was replaced with Marni Nixon's.


And any time any guitarist played on a British pop record, it was
actually Jimmy Page.

d

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  #16  
Old August 28th 20, 07:56 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Trevor
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Default Anything you think was consistently done better in the past inthe pro/commercial recording world than how it's done today?

On 28/08/2020 3:12 am, Don Pearce wrote:
> On 27 Aug 2020 15:16:26 -0000, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>> Hell, just about any time any actress sang in a Hollywood movie, her
>> voice was replaced with Marni Nixon's.

>
> And any time any guitarist played on a British pop record, it was
> actually Jimmy Page.


HaHa. But don't think he ever played on a Beatles record. Or a Rolling
Stones, or Who, or Pink Floyd, or......



  #18  
Old August 28th 20, 09:03 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
gray_wolf
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Default Anything you think was consistently done better in the past inthe pro/commercial recording world than how it's done today?

On 26/08/2020 8:17 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > wrote:
>> I'm talking about what one would label as the pro world of recording of material for mass consumption.
>>
>> Is there anything about a particular arena of recording - pop, classical, opera, TV news, film, etc. - whatever - that you find lacking compared to an earlier era despite all the technology? Or do you think audio recording is at its zenith now?

>
> In the late eighties I worked with a producer in Atlanta who assured me
> that the music of the early seventies was the best ever, and that nothing
> better would ever be achieved. His argument was that it was the drugs
> that made the music what it was and "you can't get stuff like that any
> more." He had a long list of products from quaaludes to gorilla
> tranquilizers that he claimed were the key to the fine music of the era.
>
> Personally I don't agree with this, but I was doing classical music at
> the time. Drugs did not appear on the classical scene until much later.
> --scott
>
>


Scott,
I lived in Nashville from '70 to '75 and I encountered some of the top song
writers and such in the business at the local pill doctor's clinic. It was
certainly a trip.
  #19  
Old August 28th 20, 01:53 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
None
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Posts: 94
Default Anything you think was consistently done better in the past in the pro/commercial recording world than how it's done today?

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
> > Beatles record. Or a Rolling Stones, or Who, or Pink Floyd, or......

> ... not pop.


Your Mother Should Know, She's A Rainbow, Happy Jack, Grantchester Meadows.
Not pop. Ha!

But in fact, Page did play with the Stones on at least one of their
recordings, and he played on a Beatles tune in the film _A Hard Day's
Night_. (It was incidental sound-track music, not played by the Beatles.)
And of course, he also played with the Who, and pretty much everyone else in
that time and place.

  #20  
Old August 29th 20, 01:24 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Les Cargill[_5_]
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Posts: 30
Default Anything you think was consistently done better in the past inthe pro/commercial recording world than how it's done today?

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Les Cargill > wrote:
>> Why is all the pop music quantixed to death? Answer: artists
>> are fungible and replaceable ( and may not even be able to play their
>> own stuff ) and producers make up the balance. Quantization better fits
>> that risk profile. See Rick Beato on Youtube for details ( "How
>> Computers Ruined Music")

>
> That's how pop music has always been. Menudo. The Monkees.
>


The Monkees records sound amazing. It was basically The Wrecking Crew
playing like Carole King songs. It's not quantized. For pop, as pop,
it's top shelf.

> Hell, just about any time any actress sang in a Hollywood movie, her
> voice was replaced with Marni Nixon's.
>





>> Why is the dialogue in film way too low in level and unintelligible?

>
> Because we don't have big dubbing stages any more.


Whut? I could get the dialogue up to level here, in front of little MI
store monitors. My guess is that they overwork the mixers and they mix
too loud. No trouble making out the explosions, either.

I've read things that indicate they undermix the dialogue to get people
to listen harder, to "lean in".

But mainly, I'd bet there just a lot of hacks out there.

> People mix films in
> tiny closets so that the mix will translate into someone's living room.


This is America. People have massive living rooms now. I listen in a
living room. I still have the captions on.

> Show that film in a big auditorium with a second reverb time and you
> won't be able to make out any of the words.


The acoustics in theaters is a whole 'nother story. Meyer Sound
should think about packaging some of their correction stuff for
theaters - I bet they'd sell more than a few.

> --scott
>


--
Les Cargill
 




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