I understand that most specs revolve around 14.4 volts and as a result
wattages are lower for 12.5 volts.

What is applicable to us? A regular car battery is 12.5 correct?

On 15 Mar 2005 17:41:20 -0800, (Flashovr29) wrote:

I understand that most specs revolve around 14.4 volts and as a result
wattages are lower for 12.5 volts.

What is applicable to us? A regular car battery is 12.5 correct?


With the engine off, the battery voltage is about 12.5V. With the
engine running, the alternator output is higher, between 13.5 and 15V.
How much of a difference this makes depends on your amplifier. Some
are designed to produce virtually the same power regardless of input
voltage. Others are not regulated as tightly, and their output can
vary significantly as input voltage changes.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it's anything to worry
about.


--
Scott Gardner

"It's not necessary to lose your soul in this business, but a certain amount of damage will be done to it"

This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is
correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio
HC4002's, BOTH of them, were originally running at 13v. At 14.4v, each
amp is supposed to push 4000w at 1 ohm bridged. At 1 ohm bridged, I
tested the output of the amp and found it was pushing 3342 watts. Ok,
so now I take the regulator out of the scene and let my Ohio Generator
push a whopping 15v to each amp. Here's the big surprise to all you
electronics "wizards", each amp now pushes 4044 watts bridged at 1 ohm.
Now, maybe YOU can't hear the difference, but when I am pushing 6
subs, first at 3000, now at 4000 watts, I don't know maybe it's just
me, but I heard a difference. I heard a difference so much that I had
to raise the gain on my 4-channel to now keep up with the level coming
out of the 2 HC4002's. So long as the voltage is steady, and like you
guys mentioned about the drops, if there's a huge bass peak in the
song, yes, voltage will raise then drop off again, however when the
voltage is at 14.4 or 15v RMS if you will, it makes a big difference.


--
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"Scott Gardner" wrote in message
...
On 15 Mar 2005 17:41:20 -0800, (Flashovr29) wrote:
In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it's anything to worry
about.

Actually, it's something I worry about a great deal!

I have a Rockford Punch 225.2 (450 watts x 1) as my sub amp and believe me,
it matters a great deal whether it is getting 12.5 or 14 volts. I have
taken great pains to assure my amps get every last tenth of a volt. Besides
the usual scheme of using heavy gauge wire to my amps, I also have added
heavy gauge ground wires to my battery and alternator. If this is not done,
I find the voltage differential between the grounds at the amp and the
grounds at the battery/alternator can be as much as two tenths of a volt.
Remember, voltage is a measure of an electrical difference. You can work on
both sides of the equation to maximize voltage, most people just focus on
the positive side.

MOSFET

Actually, it's something I worry about a great deal!

I have a Rockford Punch 225.2 (450 watts x 1) as my sub amp and believe me,
it matters a great deal whether it is getting 12.5 or 14 volts. I have
taken great pains to assure my amps get every last tenth of a volt. Besides
the usual scheme of using heavy gauge wire to my amps, I also have added
heavy gauge ground wires to my battery and alternator. If this is not done,
I find the voltage differential between the grounds at the amp and the
grounds at the battery/alternator can be as much as two tenths of a volt.
Remember, voltage is a measure of an electrical difference. You can work on
both sides of the equation to maximize voltage, most people just focus on
the positive side.

While there may be a slight difference in sound between listening to the
audio system at a steady 12.5 vs. 14.5, the transient drop associated with
high current draws (either due to the cable's resistance, the alternator's
output impedance, or the amplifier's output impedance) isn't noticable by
ear. In other words, the voltage dip tends to be so brief that it just
ends up meshing with the dynamics of the music anyway. Nothing to worry
about.

just to add, I know someone mentioned I would make a repair tech happy
because running at higher voltages can damage the amp. Well, that
would be true if this was a run of the mill Fosgate amp Class AB with
regulated power supply, but it's not. These two HC4002 amps are HIGH
CURRENT. I am not saying they can take 17-18 volts and be cool, but
the recommended rating is 14-15 volts. This is where they can work
best. And yes, to another comment, I could not have tested the voltage
nor the wattage output without a meter


--
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"MZ" wrote in message
...
n other words, the voltage dip tends to be so brief that it just
ends up meshing with the dynamics of the music anyway. Nothing to worry
about.

Perhaps. But I think I hear a difference. Now Mark, don't go telling me that
and making me wonder if I have wasted my time!

MOSFET

MOSFET wrote:
"MZ" wrote in message
...
n other words, the voltage dip tends to be so brief that it just
ends up meshing with the dynamics of the music anyway. Nothing to
worry
about.

Perhaps. But I think I hear a difference. Now Mark, don't go telling
me that
and making me wonder if I have wasted my time!

MOSFET

You're a ****ing faggot, dude!!! I really don't think that extra 2.5VDC
is going to give you, an extra 10dB, that would give you a perceivable
difference of volume. Please, do us all a favor and hang yourself from
the highest raffter, you can find, and kill yourself so you never have
to post a stupid response again.

wrote in message
ups.com...


You're a ****ing faggot, dude!!! I really don't think that extra 2.5VDC
is going to give you, an extra 10dB, that would give you a perceivable
difference of volume. Please, do us all a favor and hang yourself from
the highest raffter, you can find, and kill yourself so you never have
to post a stupid response again.

Forget your meds today?

MOSFET

I'm sorry you haven't killed yourself yet.

Actually, I went to school, so I know better than to ask such a stupid
question!!!!


P.S. DIE!!!!!!!

wrote in message
oups.com...
Actually, I went to school, so I know better than to ask such a stupid
question!!!!


P.S. DIE!!!!!!!

You and mmdir2002 should get together. You have soooo much in common.

MOSFET

PS: Not dead yet!

MOSFET wrote:
"MZ" wrote in message
...
n other words, the voltage dip tends to be so brief that it just
ends up meshing with the dynamics of the music anyway. Nothing to
worry
about.

Perhaps. But I think I hear a difference. Now Mark, don't go telling
me that
and making me wonder if I have wasted my time!

MOSFET

MOSFET, you do not know nothing about electronic stuff.
There is no difference of output sound if amp is supply by 1.44DC Volts
or 12.5DC Volts. Amp input voltage is DC (direct current) and the
output audio
is AC (alternative current), therefore output AC current will not
changed
by the small different of input DC voltage. Of course, big different
of
input DC voltage will either destory Amp or does not work at all.
You are just another ignorant guy on electronic knowledge.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Actually, I went to school, so I know better than to ask such a stupid
question!!!!


P.S. DIE!!!!!!!

Oh Angry Flamer Guy (AFG), where are you? You haven't reponded to my last
message. This was just getting interesting.

MOSFET

Oh where oh where has my AFG gone....

MOSFET wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...


You're a ****ing faggot, dude!!! I really don't think that extra
2.5VDC
is going to give you, an extra 10dB, that would give you a
perceivable
difference of volume. Please, do us all a favor and hang yourself
from
the highest raffter, you can find, and kill yourself so you never
have
to post a stupid response again.

Forget your meds today?

MOSFET


did you say that extra 2.5V will give you extra push on Amp output???
Man MOSFET I have to honestly say that you are one stupid ignorant one.
Did you ever study electronic before? Do you know why extra 2.5V will
NOT
give an extra push on Amp output?

wrote in message
oups.com...
MOSFET, you do not know nothing about electronic stuff.
There is no difference of output sound if amp is supply by 1.44DC Volts
or 12.5DC Volts. Amp input voltage is DC (direct current) and the
output audio
is AC (alternative current), therefore output AC current will not
changed
by the small different of input DC voltage. Of course, big different
of
input DC voltage will either destory Amp or does not work at all.
You are just another ignorant guy on electronic knowledge.


That makes no sense whatsoever. You're an idiot. Stop posting.

MOSFET

wrote in message
ups.com...

did you say that extra 2.5V will give you extra push on Amp output???
Man MOSFET I have to honestly say that you are one stupid ignorant one.
Did you ever study electronic before? Do you know why extra 2.5V will
NOT
give an extra push on Amp output?

How come when you want to you can actually make a little sense? That's
strange.

I can't believe I'm actually going to rationally answer mmdir2002, but here
goes...

With an unregulated amp, 2.5 volts WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE in output!!!
Noticable? Maybe, it depends. But, yes, it makes a difference. Again, you
are showing how little you know!

MOSFET

Why don't you try yourself on your amp if 2.5V difference will make
any differenct in your amp output?

Because i'm right and you are wrong. I just proved to you you don't
anything about electronic.

MOSFET wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Actually, I went to school, so I know better than to ask such a
stupid
question!!!!


P.S. DIE!!!!!!!

You and mmdir2002 should get together. You have soooo much in
common.

MOSFET

PS: Not dead yet!

Did you ever study electronic before? Why can't you answer that?
Do you think car stereo tech would know about electronic other than
pick out different stereo brand label?

now now brown cow. the admin doesn't like swearing, which you as a
child have GOT to learn no to do. second, never put someone down that
you do not know, another childish tendency. i think you need to take
some mushrooms and dissolve that ego of yours bud, think it's about
time. if you want to get yourself kicked off the forum even as a
GUEST, which would be completely lame, go for it. if you don't like
what i have to say, or if you don't agree with it, then don't. i could
care less what a child has to say. children are stupid, they flip out
easily, which you are no doubt doing. i know what i have. i know what
i USED to hit, and i know what i hit now. if you can't follow a simple
formula, voltage=amperage x resistance, or voltage=wattage/amperage, or
even voltage=the square root of wattage x resistance, then obviously
you're a child who has not yet completed eigth grade physics....go take
a nap and calm down like a good girl and come back when you're ready to
talk like an adult


--
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wrote:
MOSFET wrote:
"MZ" wrote in message
...
n other words, the voltage dip tends to be so brief that it just
ends up meshing with the dynamics of the music anyway. Nothing to
worry about.

Perhaps. But I think I hear a difference. Now Mark, don't go telling
me that and making me wonder if I have wasted my time!

MOSFET

MOSFET, you do not know nothing about electronic stuff.
There is no difference of output sound if amp is supply by 1.44DC
Volts or 12.5DC Volts. Amp input voltage is DC (direct current) and
the output audio
is AC (alternative current), therefore output AC current will not
changed
by the small different of input DC voltage. Of course, big different
of
input DC voltage will either destory Amp or does not work at all.
You are just another ignorant guy on electronic knowledge.

Just for fun ... let's notice that mmdir said 1.44V DC and 12.5V DC input
will produce relatively same output. So ... anyways, we all know that he
meant 14.4V DC (don't we? maybe??)
However, that statement really has absolutely zero to do with the next pearl
of wisdom ... "output current will not change with a small change of input
voltage" (I paraphrased a little for those who prefer a hint of proper
grammar) He bases this opinion on the well know fact that the input to an
amp is DC and the output from an amp is AC ?!? What the hell does this have
to do with anything?
In conclusion ... 14.4V is a 15% increase over 12.5V. As mentioned in
previous posts by people that actually know what they are talking about (eg.
MZ) this won't amount to a hill of beans IF THE AMP HAS A REGULATED POWER
SUPPLY. For those using old school stuff that doesn't have a decent
regulated PS ... that extra 15% will certainly give more headroom. (notice
there is no mention of an audible difference at normal listening levels)

sigh ... and I had promised myself I wouldn't respond to mmdir (ah well)


--
Dan Snooks

Just for fun ... let's notice that mmdir said 1.44V DC and 12.5V DC input
will produce relatively same output. So ... anyways, we all know that he
meant 14.4V DC (don't we? maybe??)
However, that statement really has absolutely zero to do with the next pearl
of wisdom ... "output current will not change with a small change of input
voltage" (I paraphrased a little for those who prefer a hint of proper
grammar) He bases this opinion on the well know fact that the input to an
amp is DC and the output from an amp is AC ?!? What the hell does this have
to do with anything?
In conclusion ... 14.4V is a 15% increase over 12.5V. As mentioned in
previous posts by people that actually know what they are talking about (eg.
MZ) this won't amount to a hill of beans IF THE AMP HAS A REGULATED POWER
SUPPLY. For those using old school stuff that doesn't have a decent
regulated PS ... that extra 15% will certainly give more headroom. (notice
there is no mention of an audible difference at normal listening levels)

Actually, most amps today aren't tightly regulated. That's why it's
common to see two different ratings. If there's an increase in power of
15%, then that amounts to very little improvement. And, when we're
talking about voltage fluctuations while the stereo is playing with the
car on, the difference becomes inaudible (if it isn't already). Humans
simply can't perceive sub-1dB transients of that kind of duration.

well, I sure did my share of tuning the place up as well. though some
people here acted in ways that I cannot understand, especially for
grown adults, I am assuming everyone here is to be considered an adult,
I too will apologize on behalf of stepping on toes by merely stating my
experience with this particular subject. I am hoping the person who
originally inquired about this has gotten something out of it more than
seeing how battles erupt. there really was equal resistance (no pun
intended) of opinion (for lack of better words considering no one with
"proof" from either side wanted to hear about the "proof" from either
side, therefore a "fact" was never proven and the whole conversation
has squabbled itself down to opinion bashing). so, I guess from this
point all the original questionee can do is experiment for his/her own
self and find out what their "proof", or "opinion", is. good luck!


--
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"Waldodamon" wrote in message
news:1110984469.f092dacc204a43d47fd6e3e47e4d6587@t eranews...

This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is
correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio
HC4002's, BOTH of them, were originally running at 13v. At 14.4v, each
amp is supposed to push 4000w at 1 ohm bridged. At 1 ohm bridged, I
tested the output of the amp and found it was pushing 3342 watts. Ok,
so now I take the regulator out of the scene and let my Ohio Generator
push a whopping 15v to each amp. Here's the big surprise to all you
electronics "wizards", each amp now pushes 4044 watts bridged at 1 ohm.
Now, maybe YOU can't hear the difference, but when I am pushing 6
subs, first at 3000, now at 4000 watts, I don't know maybe it's just
me, but I heard a difference. I heard a difference so much that I had
to raise the gain on my 4-channel to now keep up with the level coming
out of the 2 HC4002's. So long as the voltage is steady, and like you
guys mentioned about the drops, if there's a huge bass peak in the
song, yes, voltage will raise then drop off again, however when the
voltage is at 14.4 or 15v RMS if you will, it makes a big difference.


--
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Higher voltages will not add gain to an amp, it just increases rail voltage
to the finals and raises the clipping point. Sooooo. raising the gain on
your "4 channel" only proves correct when running the rig balls out.

The 1000 watt increase only accounts for 1dB or less of theoretical gain in
a perfect world. This is not factoring in power compression from heating the
VC with the first 3000 watts.

This in turn also jepordizes the SOA of the output transistor, you are gonna
make some repair tech really happy soon.

Chad

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote:


This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is
correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio


How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly rewritten
the laws of physics. Way to go.

"MZ" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote:


This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is
correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio


How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly rewritten
the laws of physics. Way to go.

Yes, and I suppose Dr. Jacobs designed the Accuvolt just for the hell of it.
I mean, HE of all people would know that nobody could possibly hear the
difference, right Mark.

MOSFET

wrote in message
ups.com...

Why don't you try yourself on your amp if 2.5V difference will make
any differenct in your amp output?

Hey mmdir2002, before you post another stupid thing on this subject, try
RESEARCHING it a little. I have 15 years of test reports (in car audio
magazines) showing that there is for some amps a SIGNIFICANT increase in
wattage from 12.5 to 14.4 volts.

Go research the Accuvolt and see what Dr. Jacobs has to say on the subject.

You are an idiot, go away.

MOSFET

"MOSFET" wrote in message
news

"MZ" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote:


This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is
correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio


How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly rewritten
the laws of physics. Way to go.

Yes, and I suppose Dr. Jacobs designed the Accuvolt just for the hell of
it.
I mean, HE of all people would know that nobody could possibly hear the
difference, right Mark.

MOSFET



You gotta double your power to gain 3dB. You ain't gonna come close to
doubling your power with an accuvolt. You MAY gain 1 DB, but I doubt it
after amplifier SOA saturation and power compression. Is it worth the added
stress to the amp?

It's not the input voltage that counts it's the rail voltage at the finals.
Anybody done the math? Got out the meter and actually taken measurements?

Chad

"Chad Wahls" wrote in message
...

"MOSFET" wrote in message
news

"MZ" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote:


This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is
correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio


How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly rewritten
the laws of physics. Way to go.

Yes, and I suppose Dr. Jacobs designed the Accuvolt just for the hell of
it.
I mean, HE of all people would know that nobody could possibly hear the
difference, right Mark.

MOSFET



You gotta double your power to gain 3dB. You ain't gonna come close to
doubling your power with an accuvolt. You MAY gain 1 DB, but I doubt it
after amplifier SOA saturation and power compression. Is it worth the
added
stress to the amp?

It's not the input voltage that counts it's the rail voltage at the
finals.
Anybody done the math? Got out the meter and actually taken measurements?

Chad

Well, I have some experience with this. I was having alternator problems
and I measured my voltage and I was getting only 11.5-12 volts. I got a new
(more powerful) alternator that ran at 14.4 volts and I REALLY noticed a
difference. Also, my amp ran much cooler. And no, I'm not making this
story up to win an argument. I really do make a point of never chiming in
unless I have some experience with a topic. But no, I am not an engineer.

Look, I'm not saying this will be noticeable in all amps. But with loosely
regulated amps, you will get more wattage. That's all I'm saying. I have
15 years of tests reports in stereo magazines to back me up here! Are they
lying?

Yes, it takes about a 3 dB difference to be perceptible, I agree. But if
you are looking for every dB you can, then THIS IS IMPORTANT! That's all
I'm saying.

Of course, that MORON mmdir2002 is misunderstanding what Mark is saying
(what's new), and construing it to mean voltage makes no difference.

MOSFET

"Chad Wahls" wrote in message
...

"Waldodamon" wrote in message
news:1110984469.f092dacc204a43d47fd6e3e47e4d6587@t eranews...

This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is
correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio
HC4002's, BOTH of them, were originally running at 13v. At 14.4v, each
amp is supposed to push 4000w at 1 ohm bridged. At 1 ohm bridged, I
tested the output of the amp and found it was pushing 3342 watts. Ok,
so now I take the regulator out of the scene and let my Ohio Generator
push a whopping 15v to each amp. Here's the big surprise to all you
electronics "wizards", each amp now pushes 4044 watts bridged at 1 ohm.
Now, maybe YOU can't hear the difference, but when I am pushing 6
subs, first at 3000, now at 4000 watts, I don't know maybe it's just
me, but I heard a difference. I heard a difference so much that I had
to raise the gain on my 4-channel to now keep up with the level coming
out of the 2 HC4002's. So long as the voltage is steady, and like you
guys mentioned about the drops, if there's a huge bass peak in the
song, yes, voltage will raise then drop off again, however when the
voltage is at 14.4 or 15v RMS if you will, it makes a big difference.


--
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Higher voltages will not add gain to an amp, it just increases rail
voltage
to the finals and raises the clipping point. Sooooo. raising the gain on
your "4 channel" only proves correct when running the rig balls out.

The 1000 watt increase only accounts for 1dB or less of theoretical gain
in
a perfect world. This is not factoring in power compression from heating
the
VC with the first 3000 watts.

This in turn also jepordizes the SOA of the output transistor, you are
gonna
make some repair tech really happy soon.

Chad

Chad, do you have any back copies of AS&S, CSR, CA&E? How do you explain
the changes in wattage when voltages are changed in test reports?

Also, my Fosgate amps give power specs at 12.5 and 14.4 volts. Why do they
do this if it doesn't matter?

Look, I tend not to like refering to magazines to prove my knowledge. It's
kind of cheesy. But this to me seems to be a widely known fact, something
I've known for 20 years. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are arguing
as I don't think there is any debate on this subject (unregulated amps
produce more wattage with more voltage).

MOSFET

"MZ" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote:


This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is
correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio


How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly rewritten
the laws of physics. Way to go.

Mark, instead of just saying something sarcastic to this guy who obviously
has some knowledge and good test equipment (those Ohio generators don't come
cheap), perhaps we could hear WHY he has rewritten the laws of physics.
Frankly, if you're not going to explain yourself, this hit-and-run kind of
posting basically amounts to a cheap shot and I would expect more from you.

MOSFET

Simple ohms law can clear it up
P=I*E (watts = Volts * Amps) if you increase the voltage or amps the watts
will increase also. This will only be true for nonregulated amps.
regulated amps will keep the voltage the same regardless of input voltage
(to a point). Weather you can hear a difference is a different story.
but I believe you can tell a difference.
I agree with Chad that running at higher voltage puts more stress on the
transistors. Low voltage is just as dangerous if not more so, as it can
cause the Amplifer to draw more Current to produce the desired output. Low
Voltage is usually what causes amps to overheat.

--
The Clown Prince of Car Stereo


"MOSFET" wrote in message
...

"Chad Wahls" wrote in message
...

"MOSFET" wrote in message
news

"MZ" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote:


This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet
is
correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio


How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly
rewritten
the laws of physics. Way to go.

Yes, and I suppose Dr. Jacobs designed the Accuvolt just for the hell
of
it.
I mean, HE of all people would know that nobody could possibly hear
the
difference, right Mark.

MOSFET



You gotta double your power to gain 3dB. You ain't gonna come close to
doubling your power with an accuvolt. You MAY gain 1 DB, but I doubt it
after amplifier SOA saturation and power compression. Is it worth the
added
stress to the amp?

It's not the input voltage that counts it's the rail voltage at the
finals.
Anybody done the math? Got out the meter and actually taken
measurements?

Chad

Well, I have some experience with this. I was having alternator problems
and I measured my voltage and I was getting only 11.5-12 volts. I got a
new
(more powerful) alternator that ran at 14.4 volts and I REALLY noticed a
difference. Also, my amp ran much cooler. And no, I'm not making this
story up to win an argument. I really do make a point of never chiming in
unless I have some experience with a topic. But no, I am not an engineer.

Look, I'm not saying this will be noticeable in all amps. But with
loosely
regulated amps, you will get more wattage. That's all I'm saying. I have
15 years of tests reports in stereo magazines to back me up here! Are
they
lying?

Yes, it takes about a 3 dB difference to be perceptible, I agree. But if
you are looking for every dB you can, then THIS IS IMPORTANT! That's all
I'm saying.

Of course, that MORON mmdir2002 is misunderstanding what Mark is saying
(what's new), and construing it to mean voltage makes no difference.

MOSFET

"joe.ker" wrote in message
news:KFZZd.8255$oa6.1157@trnddc07...
Simple ohms law can clear it up
P=I*E (watts = Volts * Amps) if you increase the voltage or amps the
watts
will increase also. This will only be true for nonregulated amps.
regulated amps will keep the voltage the same regardless of input voltage
(to a point). Weather you can hear a difference is a different story.
but I believe you can tell a difference.
I agree with Chad that running at higher voltage puts more stress on the
transistors. Low voltage is just as dangerous if not more so, as it can
cause the Amplifer to draw more Current to produce the desired output. Low
Voltage is usually what causes amps to overheat.

Yes, perfect. Well said.

MOSFET

"MOSFET" wrote in message
...

"Chad Wahls" wrote in message
...

"MOSFET" wrote in message
news

"MZ" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Waldodamon wrote:


This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet
is
correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio


How can I argue with that? Your MA Audio has single-handedly
rewritten
the laws of physics. Way to go.

Yes, and I suppose Dr. Jacobs designed the Accuvolt just for the hell
of
it.
I mean, HE of all people would know that nobody could possibly hear the
difference, right Mark.

MOSFET



You gotta double your power to gain 3dB. You ain't gonna come close to
doubling your power with an accuvolt. You MAY gain 1 DB, but I doubt it
after amplifier SOA saturation and power compression. Is it worth the
added
stress to the amp?

It's not the input voltage that counts it's the rail voltage at the
finals.
Anybody done the math? Got out the meter and actually taken
measurements?

Chad

Well, I have some experience with this. I was having alternator problems
and I measured my voltage and I was getting only 11.5-12 volts. I got a
new
(more powerful) alternator that ran at 14.4 volts and I REALLY noticed a
difference. Also, my amp ran much cooler. And no, I'm not making this
story up to win an argument. I really do make a point of never chiming in
unless I have some experience with a topic. But no, I am not an engineer.

Look, I'm not saying this will be noticeable in all amps. But with
loosely
regulated amps, you will get more wattage. That's all I'm saying. I have
15 years of tests reports in stereo magazines to back me up here! Are
they
lying?

Yes, it takes about a 3 dB difference to be perceptible, I agree. But if
you are looking for every dB you can, then THIS IS IMPORTANT! That's all
I'm saying.

Of course, that MORON mmdir2002 is misunderstanding what Mark is saying
(what's new), and construing it to mean voltage makes no difference.

MOSFET



I hear ya, The point that I was making is that running an amplifier over
it's specified voltage is not likely to make a difference worth the risk,
The transformers will saturate etc.

But the difference you had from 11 some-odd volts to 14.4.... hell yeah

Chad

"MOSFET" wrote in message
...

"Chad Wahls" wrote in message
...

"Waldodamon" wrote in message
news:1110984469.f092dacc204a43d47fd6e3e47e4d6587@t eranews...

This is great. 2.5V won't make a difference, gotta love it. Mosfet is
correct and I have done the procedures to prove it. My MA Audio
HC4002's, BOTH of them, were originally running at 13v. At 14.4v, each
amp is supposed to push 4000w at 1 ohm bridged. At 1 ohm bridged, I
tested the output of the amp and found it was pushing 3342 watts. Ok,
so now I take the regulator out of the scene and let my Ohio Generator
push a whopping 15v to each amp. Here's the big surprise to all you
electronics "wizards", each amp now pushes 4044 watts bridged at 1 ohm.
Now, maybe YOU can't hear the difference, but when I am pushing 6
subs, first at 3000, now at 4000 watts, I don't know maybe it's just
me, but I heard a difference. I heard a difference so much that I had
to raise the gain on my 4-channel to now keep up with the level coming
out of the 2 HC4002's. So long as the voltage is steady, and like you
guys mentioned about the drops, if there's a huge bass peak in the
song, yes, voltage will raise then drop off again, however when the
voltage is at 14.4 or 15v RMS if you will, it makes a big difference.


--
Waldodamon
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Higher voltages will not add gain to an amp, it just increases rail
voltage
to the finals and raises the clipping point. Sooooo. raising the gain on
your "4 channel" only proves correct when running the rig balls out.

The 1000 watt increase only accounts for 1dB or less of theoretical gain
in
a perfect world. This is not factoring in power compression from heating
the
VC with the first 3000 watts.

This in turn also jepordizes the SOA of the output transistor, you are
gonna
make some repair tech really happy soon.

Chad

Chad, do you have any back copies of AS&S, CSR, CA&E? How do you explain
the changes in wattage when voltages are changed in test reports?

Also, my Fosgate amps give power specs at 12.5 and 14.4 volts. Why do
they
do this if it doesn't matter?

Look, I tend not to like refering to magazines to prove my knowledge.
It's
kind of cheesy. But this to me seems to be a widely known fact, something
I've known for 20 years. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are
arguing
as I don't think there is any debate on this subject (unregulated amps
produce more wattage with more voltage).

MOSFET

"MOSFET" wrote in message
...


Also, my Fosgate amps give power specs at 12.5 and 14.4 volts. Why do
they
do this if it doesn't matter?

Look, I tend not to like refering to magazines to prove my knowledge.
It's
kind of cheesy. But this to me seems to be a widely known fact, something
I've known for 20 years. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are
arguing
as I don't think there is any debate on this subject (unregulated amps
produce more wattage with more voltage).

MOSFET



I can get ANY AMP to put out oodles of power.... How long does it haveta do
it for

Chad

Just curious how did you test the output?

"Waldodamon" wrote in message
news:1110997664.fca609f51e53ac2313e84a8bbd3b61a4@t eranews...

just to add, I know someone mentioned I would make a repair tech happy
because running at higher voltages can damage the amp. Well, that
would be true if this was a run of the mill Fosgate amp Class AB with
regulated power supply, but it's not. These two HC4002 amps are HIGH
CURRENT. I am not saying they can take 17-18 volts and be cool, but
the recommended rating is 14-15 volts. This is where they can work
best. And yes, to another comment, I could not have tested the voltage
nor the wattage output without a meter


And a dummy load? If not, after heating what was the impedance (not
resistance) of the coils. Was this a true RMS signal or a peak reading with
a data hold meter? And the voltage I am referring to is rail voltage at the
output transistor. The ratio of this increase to the ratio of the input
voltage increase gives representation of power supply loss (transformer core
loss, etc)

Chad

Shut the **** up! You have never study electronic before. Your kind of
car stereo tech is not electronicn technician at all.
What do you know about inside of the amplifier? I asked you why 2.5V
different will not make any differenct.
You couldn't answer because you don't know. There is no car magazine
showing signficicant incrased in output AC.
You are making up from your ignorant take-no-prisoner dumb brain.