Don Cooper wrote:


Rob Reedijk wrote:

And then there's Cooperstown----sorry but the first game of baseball was
not played in the US...

Don't tell that to people in Cooperstown.

Is everyone there named Cooper?

Rob R.

"U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles" "Charles wrote:
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:09:21 GMT, Paul Stamler
wrote:
On 2004-11-13, Nmm wrote:


You might Also want to look into Santos Dumont, a Brasilian that flew
a motorized plane around Paris, two years before the Wright brothers
at Kitty Hawk.

Really? I was under the impression that he flew planes in Paris beginning in
about 1906, or three years after the Wrights flew at Kitty Hawk, and that
what he was piloting around Paris in 1901 or so was a lighter-than-air
craft, aka a dirigible.


Orville and Wilber came up with workable, albeit clumsy, controls.

They also invented the wind tunnel and figured out how to make an
efficient propeller and an wings that worked.

Their most notable American competitor was Langley, whose engines were
too heavy to allow flight (he didn't understand lift) and hadn't worked
out control systems--many sensible intelligent people believed that the
control problem would never be solved.

According to all the sources I can find, Santos Dumont first flew
heavier than air craft in 1906, but set many records doing so.

Okay---but what about the New Zealand guy who was ahead of the Wrights?

Rob R.

"U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles" "Charles wrote:
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:09:21 GMT, Paul Stamler
wrote:
On 2004-11-13, Nmm wrote:


You might Also want to look into Santos Dumont, a Brasilian that flew
a motorized plane around Paris, two years before the Wright brothers
at Kitty Hawk.

Really? I was under the impression that he flew planes in Paris beginning in
about 1906, or three years after the Wrights flew at Kitty Hawk, and that
what he was piloting around Paris in 1901 or so was a lighter-than-air
craft, aka a dirigible.


Orville and Wilber came up with workable, albeit clumsy, controls.

They also invented the wind tunnel and figured out how to make an
efficient propeller and an wings that worked.

Their most notable American competitor was Langley, whose engines were
too heavy to allow flight (he didn't understand lift) and hadn't worked
out control systems--many sensible intelligent people believed that the
control problem would never be solved.

According to all the sources I can find, Santos Dumont first flew
heavier than air craft in 1906, but set many records doing so.

Okay---but what about the New Zealand guy who was ahead of the Wrights?

Rob R.

Rob Reedijk wrote:
Don Cooper wrote:



Rob Reedijk wrote:


And then there's Cooperstown----sorry but the first game of baseball was
not played in the US...


Don't tell that to people in Cooperstown.


Is everyone there named Cooper?

Rob R.

It was named or possible founded by James Fenimore Cooper who wrote
"Last of the Mohegans"
George

Rob Reedijk wrote:
Don Cooper wrote:



Rob Reedijk wrote:


And then there's Cooperstown----sorry but the first game of baseball was
not played in the US...


Don't tell that to people in Cooperstown.


Is everyone there named Cooper?

Rob R.

It was named or possible founded by James Fenimore Cooper who wrote
"Last of the Mohegans"
George

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message ...
On 2004-11-13, Nmm wrote:


You might Also want to look into Santos Dumont, a Brasilian that flew
a motorized plane around Paris, two years before the Wright brothers
at Kitty Hawk.

Really? I was under the impression that he flew planes in Paris beginning in
about 1906, or three years after the Wrights flew at Kitty Hawk, and that
what he was piloting around Paris in 1901 or so was a lighter-than-air
craft, aka a dirigible.

Am I wrong?

Peace,
Paul


No sorry i was slightly wrong in this one.

The argument is that the first Kitty Hawk flight was done in secret,
and the glider was shot off a catapult over the side of a hill.

Santos Dumont's first flight was a self powered heavier than air
vehicle, that took off under it's own power. At the time this was
recognised as the "First Flight".

It was only later that the Wright Brothers claimed that Kitty hawk was
the first flight, And from the way that the recreation of that flght
went for 100th aniversary last year, most people are still skeptical
about that.

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message ...
On 2004-11-13, Nmm wrote:


You might Also want to look into Santos Dumont, a Brasilian that flew
a motorized plane around Paris, two years before the Wright brothers
at Kitty Hawk.

Really? I was under the impression that he flew planes in Paris beginning in
about 1906, or three years after the Wrights flew at Kitty Hawk, and that
what he was piloting around Paris in 1901 or so was a lighter-than-air
craft, aka a dirigible.

Am I wrong?

Peace,
Paul


No sorry i was slightly wrong in this one.

The argument is that the first Kitty Hawk flight was done in secret,
and the glider was shot off a catapult over the side of a hill.

Santos Dumont's first flight was a self powered heavier than air
vehicle, that took off under it's own power. At the time this was
recognised as the "First Flight".

It was only later that the Wright Brothers claimed that Kitty hawk was
the first flight, And from the way that the recreation of that flght
went for 100th aniversary last year, most people are still skeptical
about that.

On 16 Nov 2004 13:59:35 -0800, Nmm wrote:
"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
On 2004-11-13, Nmm wrote:


You might Also want to look into Santos Dumont, a Brasilian that flew
a motorized plane around Paris, two years before the Wright brothers
at Kitty Hawk.

Really? I was under the impression that he flew planes in Paris beginning in
about 1906, or three years after the Wrights flew at Kitty Hawk, and that
what he was piloting around Paris in 1901 or so was a lighter-than-air
craft, aka a dirigible.

Am I wrong?

Peace,
Paul


No sorry i was slightly wrong in this one.

The argument is that the first Kitty Hawk flight was done in secret,
and the glider was shot off a catapult over the side of a hill.


The gliders were the prototype for the 1903 powered flyer.

Early in the history, there were a number of patent disputes that were
eventually decided in the Wright's favor. Europe never recognized the
Wrights patents for various pre-WWI political reasons--recall that
Europe at the time wasn't exactly the most stable region, being as it
was about halfway between Bismarck and Wilhelm.

On 16 Nov 2004 13:59:35 -0800, Nmm wrote:
"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
On 2004-11-13, Nmm wrote:


You might Also want to look into Santos Dumont, a Brasilian that flew
a motorized plane around Paris, two years before the Wright brothers
at Kitty Hawk.

Really? I was under the impression that he flew planes in Paris beginning in
about 1906, or three years after the Wrights flew at Kitty Hawk, and that
what he was piloting around Paris in 1901 or so was a lighter-than-air
craft, aka a dirigible.

Am I wrong?

Peace,
Paul


No sorry i was slightly wrong in this one.

The argument is that the first Kitty Hawk flight was done in secret,
and the glider was shot off a catapult over the side of a hill.


The gliders were the prototype for the 1903 powered flyer.

Early in the history, there were a number of patent disputes that were
eventually decided in the Wright's favor. Europe never recognized the
Wrights patents for various pre-WWI political reasons--recall that
Europe at the time wasn't exactly the most stable region, being as it
was about halfway between Bismarck and Wilhelm.