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#1
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
At where I work someone might buy a used
stereo receiver, a nice Yamha or Sony, from ten years ago. They will usually pair it with speakers of 3-6ohms impedance, even though on the back the receivers might say 8-12 or even 8-16ohms. Am I right to recommend they get higher - vs lower - impedance speakers to go along with those receivers or amps? I personally do not like the trend of lowering impedances in consumer speakers, as I feel the amp needs something to 'push against' when it is driving the speakers. |
#3
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Theck-Mah womped:
... theckmah turds flushed ... The answer is the same now as it was the last 37 times you've brought up the same question. It doesn't matter what answer(s) you get; we know you'll be back again proving that you didn't understand, and that you are incapable of understanding. I personally do not like the trend ... Really, nobody gives a flying **** what you like. You're too retarded to understand amplifier/speaker impedances, and nobody needs the advice of a retarded dumb ****. HSDJF. DFR. SBDF. |
#4
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Mike Rivers:
Most receivers, old and new, specify a range of impedances on their back plate that they can safely drive. My home receiver states 8-16 ohms. Some newer ones state 4-8. I was told time and time again over the last thirty years to never hook up speakers of impedance below that lower number. IE one would never hook up 4-6ohm speakers to a receiver specifying 8-16ohms. Or a 3ohm speaker if the receiver minimum was 4ohms. Yes, one wants speakers that 'sound good' (the 'use your ears' crowd), but there are also rules and guidelines that apply. |
#5
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Thick-MaMa sharted:
I was told time and time again over the last thirty years .... yada yada yada, you're not paying attention. For thirty years, or more. If you haven't been able to grasp the concept after thirty years, splattering thAAT fact all over usenet wont help. Numbers. Forget it. Numbers are your enemy. As long as you insist that you can't do numbers, just forget the whole impedance thing. Or you could just come to usenet every couple of months to publicly prove that you're still a dumb-****. LKVNS, SFLK. HSK! |
#6
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
On 8/3/2018 1:42 PM, wrote:
I was told time and time again over the last thirty years to never hook up speakers of impedance below that lower number. IE one would never hook up 4-6ohm speakers to a receiver specifying 8-16ohms. Or a 3ohm speaker if the receiver minimum was 4ohms. Did you ever find out why? If you understood the electronics (basic electricity, actually) you'd understand why ignorant people tell you that you should never do this, and understand why you can. The same people will tell you to never hook a speaker rated at 25 watts to an amplifier rated 100 watts. Smart people understand what those ratings mean (often, nothing) and do what works. -- For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#7
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Mike Rivers wrote: "
Did you ever find out why? If you understood the electronics (basic electricity, actually) you'd understand why ignorant people tell you that you should never do this, and understand why you can" I was told that hooking up a speaker of lower impedance than the minimum specified by a given receiver or amp could cause that amp to "overheat quickly" and that there was "insufficient load on the amp". Mike I'd be surprised if you or Dorsey told me that I could 'ignore the numbers' and hook up speakers of any impedance to my 8-16ohm receiver. And even if you said it was okay, I'd still go by what's printed or engraved on the back of it, and audition for the best sounding speakers in the corresponding impedance range. Those figures exist on the backs of amplifiers & receivers for a reason. This "use your ears; ignore the specs/numbers" mentality today is irresponsible in my humble estimation, and could lead to blown gear and other sorts of damage(notably to said ears), fires, etc. |
#8
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
wrote:
At where I work someone might buy a used stereo receiver, a nice Yamha or Sony, from ten years ago. They will usually pair it with speakers of 3-6ohms impedance, even though on the back the receivers might say 8-12 or even 8-16ohms. Am I right to recommend they get higher - vs lower - impedance speakers to go along with those receivers or amps? Or they should get different amps if they like those speakers. The amp is rated for a minimum speaker impedance. I personally do not like the trend of lowering impedances in consumer speakers, as I feel the amp needs something to 'push against' when it is driving the speakers. I have absolutely no idea what this means. It doesn't matter one bit what the impedance is, as long as the amplifier can drive it and the speaker cable can handle it. P=IV and you can increase I or V and either way get the same results. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
On 8/3/2018 6:04 PM, wrote:
I was told that hooking up a speaker of lower impedance than the minimum specified by a given receiver or amp could cause that amp to "overheat quickly" and that there was "insufficient load on the amp". An amplifier can "overheat quickly" with the correct impedance speaker connected if you operate the system stupidly. The part about "insufficient load" is horse****. If anything, it's too great a load. But the, still, only if you allow it to overload. There's an "insufficient load" issue with a tube amplifier with an output transformer. If you operate the amplifier without a load and push it to its maximum output level, the output transformer could possibly arc over internally, damaging the transformer or the output tubes. But, again, this is only if you do something stupid. Mike I'd be surprised if you or Dorsey told me that I could 'ignore the numbers' and hook up speakers of any impedance to my 8-16ohm receiver. I didn't say that, and I'm sure Scott wouldn't say that either. What I said was that it was OK to connect a 4 ohm speaker to an amplifier that's rated for an 8 ohm speaker, as long as you keep it down to a safe level. For a given setting on the volume knob, a 4 ohm speaker may not play as loud as an 8 ohm speaker, but that depends on other things in addition to impedance. Again, it's about avoiding doing something stupid. And you can do something stupid (and cause damage) even with a speaker of the recommended impedance connected. And even if you said it was okay, I'd still go by what's printed or engraved on the back of it Nobody said you couldn't. Those figures exist on the backs of amplifiers & receivers for a reason. Yes. As guidance for salesmen. -- For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Thick-MaMa sharted:
I was told ... Nobody gives a **** what you were told. Since numbers are involved, you probably don't even know what you were told; you probably weren't even listening. Same old story. Theckma Dumb-**** pretends to ask a question (which he's asked dozens of times before), but he really just wants someone to tell him that his dumb****ery is correct. Instead, reality is explained to him. He doesnt want the real answer; he's too stupid to accept it. He gets upset. He pretends he can school people that know better than he does. He does not learn a thing. He holds tight to his dumb****ery, so he'll circle right back around to the same charade again, as always. On the short bus, using your ears is not allowed. That's not what loudspeakers are for on the short bus, apparently. FSKFH. FCKWAFA! SBDF. FCKWAFA. |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
On 8/3/2018 6:57 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 8/3/2018 6:04 PM, wrote: I was told that hooking up a speaker of lower impedance than the minimum specified by a given receiver or amp could cause that amp to "overheat quickly" and that there was "insufficient load on the amp". An amplifier can "overheat quickly" with the correct impedance speaker connected if you operate the system stupidly. The part about "insufficient load" is horse****. If anything, it's too great a load. But the, still, only if you allow it to overload. There's an "insufficient load" issue with a tube amplifier with an output transformer. If you operate the amplifier without a load and push it to its maximum output level, the output transformer could possibly arc over internally, damaging the transformer or the output tubes. But, again, this is only if you do something stupid. Mike I'd be surprised if you or Dorsey told me that I could 'ignore the numbers' and hook up speakers of any impedance to my 8-16ohm receiver. I didn't say that, and I'm sure Scott wouldn't say that either. What I said was that it was OK to connect a 4 ohm speaker to an amplifier that's rated for an 8 ohm speaker, as long as you keep it down to a safe level. For a given setting on the volume knob, a 4 ohm speaker may not play as loud as an 8 ohm speaker, but that depends on other things in addition to impedance. Again, it's about avoiding doing something stupid. And you can do something stupid (and cause damage) even with a speaker of the recommended impedance connected. And even if you said it was okay, I'd still go by what's printed or engraved on the back of it Nobody said you couldn't. Those figures exist on the backs of amplifiers & receivers for a reason. Yes. As guidance for salesmen. So ...I have this T-shirt ...it says: I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. ~~ We seem to be there yet again. -- == Later... Ron Capik -- |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
On 03/08/2018 23:06, Scott Dorsey wrote:
I have absolutely no idea what this means. It doesn't matter one bit what the impedance is, as long as the amplifier can drive it and the speaker cable can handle it. P=IV and you can increase I or V and either way get the same results. I think what Thekma is on about is a tendency in automotive applications to use speakers with very low impedances to permit more power to be drawn from the limited supply voltage, the need for which is exacerbated by the tendency of modern speakers to improve linearity at the expense of efficiency. If you need a long throw, it's cheaper to make a long voice coil than a long, uniform magnetic field which will contain the whole coil. The down side is that a fair amount of the coil isn't actually doing much, as it's outside the magnetic field. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message news
wrote: ...I feel the amp needs something to 'push against' when it is driving the speakers. The amp doesn't give a **** how retarded you are. I have absolutely no idea what this means. That's OK; Theckmah also has absolutely no idea what it means. He'll be back in a couple of months with the same short-bus dumb-****ery. |
#14
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
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#15
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Mike Rivers wrote: "For a given setting on the volume knob, a 4 ohm speaker may not
play as loud as an 8 ohm speaker," You're gonna have to break that down for me. I always thought that, "For a given setting on the volume knob, an 8 ohm may not play as loud as a 4 ohm", or, a 12 or 16ohm may not play as loud at that setting as an 8 ohm speaker. Isn't a speaker with a higher ohm number on the back next to its wire terminal supposed to be harder to drive, (IE, you need to turn UP the volume), than one with a lower ohm value in back? |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
On 4/08/2018 8:57 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
I didn't say that, and I'm sure Scott wouldn't say that either. What I said was that it was OK to connect a 4 ohm speaker to an amplifier that's rated for an 8 ohm speaker, as long as you keep it down to a safe level. For a given setting on the volume knob, a 4 ohm speaker may not play as loud as an 8 ohm speaker, but that depends on other things in addition to impedance. Yes it depends FAR more on speaker efficiency. However given 2 speakers both with the same efficiency, usually rated at SPL out for 2.83V input, (1W into 8ohm) then the 4ohm speaker, NOT the 8ohm one will sound louder at the same volume control setting, assuming the amplifier is capable of handling the current. And there's the rub with cheap amps these days. They are often rated for 6ohm+ speakers because they have limited current capability for their maximum voltage output. So yes everything is fine at low volume, but not when near maximum levels. |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Theckhhh-maaaah puked up message
... Mike Rivers wrote: "For a given setting on the volume knob, a 4 ohm speaker may not play as loud as an 8 ohm speaker," You're gonna have to break that down for me. He can break it down for you, but he can't understand it for you. You keep circling the drain; so why don't you just flush, and then **** off out of here. FCKWAFA. |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Trevor wrote: "
Yes it depends FAR more on speaker efficiency. However given 2 speakers both with the same efficiency, usually rated at SPL out for 2.83V input, (1W into 8ohm) then the 4ohm speaker, NOT the 8ohm one will sound louder at the same volume control setting, assuming the amplifier is capable of handling the current. And there's the rub with cheap amps these days. They are often rated for 6ohm+ speakers because they have limited current capability for their maximum voltage output. So yes everything is fine at low volume, but not when near maximum levels. " THANK YOU Trevor for that clarification. That's what I figured. Cheap pussy amps in today's consumer audio equipment, thus a proliferation of lower, and odd-numbered impedances listed on the backs of speakers. Notice I'm keeping the discussion HOME stereo related and not auto, so we are comparing appoles to apples here. But I must ask: What factors, most critically, drive speaker efficiency? |
#19
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Dum**** drooled in message
... Cheap pussy amps in today's consumer audio equipment, thus a proliferation of lower, and odd-numbered impedances listed on the backs of speakers. So it's clear that you did not understand Trevor's posts. He tried to explain it, but you're just too stupid. It's clear that you will NEVER understand speaker and amplifier impedances. You don't like odd-numbered impedances? What kind of arithmophobic dumb-****ery is that? How much toilet paper do you use after posting such ****? |
#20
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
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#21
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
geoff:
Scenario: Someone owns an old amp speced 8-16 ohms, it's the year 2028, and the highest R speakers available, used or new, are 4ohm. What do they do? |
#22
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
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#23
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
On 6/08/2018 2:33 PM, geoff wrote:
On 6/08/2018 1:14 PM, wrote: geoff: Scenario:Â* Someone owns an old amp speced 8-16 ohms, it's the year 2028, and the highest R speakers available, used or new, are 4ohm. What do they do? Will never happen of course. The most common 'standard' remains 8R and likely will forevermore. But if the amp is from late 1990s or newer play away, but just don't turn it up full. Or play it on full and if it blows up just back off the volume a little. :-) "when it blows up" the volume is backed off a LOT automagically. :-) The real problem is whether your speakers go with it, which is most likely if they don't have DC protection for when the output transistors blow up. :-( (the tweeters are often gone even before the amp blows up though) |
#24
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
wrote:
But I must ask: What factors, most critically, drive speaker efficiency? ** Speakers mostly rely on the formula: Force = mass x acceleration. 1. Force comes direct from the voice coil, producing more force from the same impedance voice coil results in higher efficiency. 2. A lighter cone or diaphragm accelerates faster, so for the same size is more efficient. 3. A larger size cone or diaphragm couples to more air so is more efficient. All the above have *drawbacks* in other areas of speaker performance - like max power handling, distortion and bass response extension. Loudspeaker designers have been fighting with these parameters for nearly 100 years. When unable to improve the drivers, they sometimes resort to "horn loading". ..... Phil |
#25
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Mike Rivers replied: "
Those figures exist on the backs of amplifiers & receivers for a reason. Yes. As guidance for salesmen. " Boy are you skeptical! Like I said previously, if some of you in this group built cars, they'd probably come without an instrument panel. 'Ignore the speedometer - use your eyes!' Go as fast as everyone around you! 'Just fill your gas/diesel tank every 5-7 days - who needs a FUEL GAUGE?' |
#26
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
wrote:
Mike Rivers replied: " Those figures exist on the backs of amplifiers & receivers for a reason. Yes. As guidance for salesmen. " Boy are you skeptical! He's got a right to be, because the impedance changes with frequency. It is not unusual to see an "8 ohm" speaker dip down to 5 ohms somewhere near the cabinet resonance and rise up to 25 ohms or more somewhere else. The ratings are really just guidance for what speakers are safe to use with what amps, and they are reasonable guidance. They are not gospel. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#27
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Scott Dorsey wrote: "He's got a right to be, because the impedance changes with frequency. It is
not unusual to see an "8 ohm" speaker dip down to 5 ohms somewhere near the cabinet resonance" So say it's a really cheap plywood speaker cabinet with a resonace around 200Hz. Is that impedance engineered to be lower at that freq? And again, my gut instinct tells me that the lower the impedance the EASIER it will be to drive that speaker, especially where that speaker's impedance valleys out. So why wouldn't the cabinet's barrel-sounding frequency be assigned a HIGHER impedance? |
#28
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
On 8/6/2018 9:39 AM, wrote:
And again, my gut instinct tells me that the lower the impedance the EASIER it will be to drive that speaker Maybe easier to drive it to the gig in your van, because a lower impedance suggests a different voice coil winding design, perhaps resulting in a weight reduction of a few grams less than an otherwise equal one one (if there were such a thing) with higher impedance. All kidding aside, please re-think this after you understand Ohm's Law. It's not about your guts, IT'S THE LAW!!! Remember that you're dealing with a system here. "Easier to drive" is quite meaningless without further definition. -- For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com |
#29
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
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#30
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Theckhhhhhhh-maaaaaaaaaaaah digested in message
... And again, my gut instinct tells me And again, your gut has no understanding of loudspeakers and amplifiers. In that respect, your gut is a lot like your brain. In fact, they both generate a whole lot of ****. You, with no comprehension, are trying to argue with people who have deep knowledge and understanding of the subject matter. That's really ****ing stupid (one of your nicknames). Speakers' and amps' behaviors have nothing to do with your idiot misunderstandings or dumb-**** gibbering. If you're too stupid to understand elementary concepts such as Ohm's law, then you're too stupid to advise people about speakers and amps. Youve given ample evidence that you are, in fact, that stupid. |
#31
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
theck-ma-ma-ma wrote in message
... Mike Rivers replied: "... As guidance for salesmen. " Boy are you skeptical! No, he just understands how those numbers are derived, and what they are (or aren't) good for. You have no idea how they are derived, or what they are (or aren't) good for, so of course you will puke up an idiotically ill-informed statement like: Like I said previously, Over and over again, too stupid to simply shut the **** up. theck-ma's drooling, gibbering, and kook-dancing flushed FCKWAFA. |
#32
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news
please re-think this after you understand Ohm's Law. Nope, he's too stupid to understand Ohm's law, ever. |
#33
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
"John Williamson" wrote in message ...
Do all of us a favour and take an evening class in basic electronics, Nope, he's too stupid to understand basic electronics, ever. |
#34
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: "He's got a right to be, because the impedance changes with frequency. It is not unusual to see an "8 ohm" speaker dip down to 5 ohms somewhere near the cabinet resonance" So say it's a really cheap plywood speaker cabinet with a resonace around 200Hz. Is that impedance engineered to be lower at that freq? No, it's a function of the resonance. Put your hand in the speaker vent, the resonance rises, and so does the peak on the impedance plot. And again, my gut instinct tells me that the lower the impedance the EASIER it will be to drive that speaker, especially where that speaker's impedance valleys out. So why wouldn't the cabinet's barrel-sounding frequency be assigned a HIGHER impedance? Nobody "assigns" it. It's physics. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#35
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Trevor wrote:
On 6/08/2018 2:33 PM, geoff wrote: On 6/08/2018 1:14 PM, wrote: geoff: Scenario:* Someone owns an old amp speced 8-16 ohms, it's the year 2028, and the highest R speakers available, used or new, are 4ohm. What do they do? Will never happen of course. The most common 'standard' remains 8R and likely will forevermore. But if the amp is from late 1990s or newer play away, but just don't turn it up full. Or play it on full and if it blows up just back off the volume a little. :-) "when it blows up" the volume is backed off a LOT automagically. :-) The real problem is whether your speakers go with it, which is most likely if they don't have DC protection for when the output transistors blow up. :-( (the tweeters are often gone even before the amp blows up though) That would fix all of your impedance mismatch problems then, wouldn't it :-) |
#36
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
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#37
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
On 7/08/2018 4:59 AM, None wrote:
"Mike Rivers"Â* wrote in message news Â*please re-think this after you understand Ohm's Law. Nope, he's too stupid to understand Ohm's law, ever. Ohm's Law ? FAKE NEWS, FAKE NEWS ! geoff |
#38
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
On 7/08/2018 6:52 AM, geoff wrote:
On 7/08/2018 4:59 AM, None wrote: "Mike Rivers"Â* wrote in message news Â*please re-think this after you understand Ohm's Law. Nope, he's too stupid to understand Ohm's law, ever. Ohm's Law ? FAKE NEWS, FAKE NEWS ! Trump has repealed it perhaps? He's certainly trying with a few other laws of physics. :-) |
#39
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
On 7/08/2018 2:58 AM, None wrote:
theck-ma-ma-ma wrote in message crap removed Over and over again, too stupid to simply shut the **** up. More like he's a troll and you keep taking the bait rather than simply add him to your blocked list. If everyone did that we wouldn't need to see his ramblings at all. |
#40
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Advice To Others Wanting to Build A Stereo System
Trevor wrote: "More like he's a troll and you keep taking the bait
rather than simply add him to your blocked list. If everyone did that we wouldn't need to see his ramblings at all. " Hey Trevor: Read a few of 'None's replies here. Compare what's contained in them to what's contained in mine. Are mine laced with name- calling and filthy language?... Compare it's comments to mine and LEARN how to ID a "troll" when you see one. I came here to do just that: Learn something. |
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