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David Nebenzahl David Nebenzahl is offline
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On 2/27/2011 9:10 AM Randy Yates spake thus:

On 02/27/2011 12:04 AM, MalcolmO wrote:

Hear, hear!

Today people get recording contracts based on how photogenic they
are. Machines sing them into tune. AND THEN

Most commercial recordings today are released in a form which is
far less than "16-bit" in quality - they have been deliberately
compressed during the mastering process to sound "louder".
They've been quashed, pummeled, clipped, gain-ridden, smelched,
and squeezed down into a tiny dynamic range.


And they wonder why we don't buy records!


I thought it may be interesting to suggest some pre-digital era albums that
were of better source quality than much of what gets put into 1's and 0's
these days.

How about, "Year of the Cat", by Al Stewart?


I see you, and raise you: John McLaughlin/One Truth Band's "Electric
Dreams", @1979. (Completely analog, so far as I can tell.)


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet
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"Randy Yates" wrote in message
m...
Even if the source material was marginal, you'd still have sonic
advantages with a CD. For example, the elimination of ticks and pops,
wow-and-flutter, and rumble. But I miss my anti-static gun, dirt
brush, and Yamaha direct-drive turntable nonetheless...


Gee I sure don't!
And I certainly don't miss the ticks, pops, wow, flutter, and rumble either.
Nor the cost of replacement stylii or cartridges. Or trying to find decently
made vinyl records in the first place! In fact I can't think of one thing I
miss besides the bigger cover art. But the storage hassle more than negates
that IMO.

Trevor.


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"Edwin Hurwitz" wrote in message
...
Ah, the good old days, I don't miss them a bit!
Pro Tools, Logic, etc. rock!


No argument from me!

Trevor.


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"Trevor" wrote in message
...

"Randy Yates" wrote in message
m...
Even if the source material was marginal, you'd still have sonic
advantages with a CD. For example, the elimination of ticks and pops,
wow-and-flutter, and rumble. But I miss my anti-static gun, dirt
brush, and Yamaha direct-drive turntable nonetheless...


Gee I sure don't!
And I certainly don't miss the ticks, pops, wow, flutter, and rumble
either. Nor the cost of replacement stylii or cartridges. Or trying to
find decently made vinyl records in the first place! In fact I can't think
of one thing I miss besides the bigger cover art. But the storage hassle
more than negates that IMO.


Yet another person that hasn't listened to a recent release on vinyl and
compared it to the same release on CD then?
You'd be eating your words if you had. For some reason the sound engineers
that mix vinyl, in general, don't compress the hell out of the dynamic range
like they do CD.


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On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 13:03:21 -0000, "David"
wrote:

"Trevor" wrote in message
u...

"Randy Yates" wrote in message
m...
Even if the source material was marginal, you'd still have sonic
advantages with a CD. For example, the elimination of ticks and pops,
wow-and-flutter, and rumble. But I miss my anti-static gun, dirt
brush, and Yamaha direct-drive turntable nonetheless...


Gee I sure don't!
And I certainly don't miss the ticks, pops, wow, flutter, and rumble
either. Nor the cost of replacement stylii or cartridges. Or trying to
find decently made vinyl records in the first place! In fact I can't think
of one thing I miss besides the bigger cover art. But the storage hassle
more than negates that IMO.


Yet another person that hasn't listened to a recent release on vinyl and
compared it to the same release on CD then?
You'd be eating your words if you had. For some reason the sound engineers
that mix vinyl, in general, don't compress the hell out of the dynamic range
like they do CD.


That depends on the CD.


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"MadManMoon" wrote in message
...
"Randy Yates" wrote in message
m...
Even if the source material was marginal, you'd still have sonic
advantages with a CD. For example, the elimination of ticks and pops,
wow-and-flutter, and rumble. But I miss my anti-static gun, dirt
brush, and Yamaha direct-drive turntable nonetheless...

Gee I sure don't!
And I certainly don't miss the ticks, pops, wow, flutter, and rumble
either. Nor the cost of replacement stylii or cartridges. Or trying to
find decently made vinyl records in the first place! In fact I can't
think
of one thing I miss besides the bigger cover art. But the storage hassle
more than negates that IMO.


Yet another person that hasn't listened to a recent release on vinyl and
compared it to the same release on CD then?
You'd be eating your words if you had. For some reason the sound
engineers
that mix vinyl, in general, don't compress the hell out of the dynamic
range
like they do CD.


That depends on the CD.


Which is why I put 'in general' as it has been what I have found more often
than not.
LPs do cost about 3 times the price of CDs now (~£18) but are 'in general'
pressed on good quality heavy weight virgin vinyl.


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Trevor expounded in
u:


"Warren" wrote in message
. 213...
The superbowl HD was just as good with the mute button on
as it was when it was off.


Better surely? :-)


Definitely during commercials!!

The only detraction was the word "Mute" at the top of the
screen. ;-)


So just reduce the volume to zero instead, and there is no
"Mute" overlay to annoy you.

Trevor.


Not a problem really. If I use my cable box for mute, the
word vanishes after a short time. The TV mute is more
invasive and stays there.

Warren
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In article ,
"David" wrote:

"Trevor" wrote in message
...

"Randy Yates" wrote in message
m...
Even if the source material was marginal, you'd still have sonic
advantages with a CD. For example, the elimination of ticks and pops,
wow-and-flutter, and rumble. But I miss my anti-static gun, dirt
brush, and Yamaha direct-drive turntable nonetheless...


Gee I sure don't!
And I certainly don't miss the ticks, pops, wow, flutter, and rumble
either. Nor the cost of replacement stylii or cartridges. Or trying to
find decently made vinyl records in the first place! In fact I can't think
of one thing I miss besides the bigger cover art. But the storage hassle
more than negates that IMO.


Yet another person that hasn't listened to a recent release on vinyl and
compared it to the same release on CD then?
You'd be eating your words if you had. For some reason the sound engineers
that mix vinyl, in general, don't compress the hell out of the dynamic range
like they do CD.


That's because in vinyl land they are trying to maximize the dynamic
range in the face of the limitations of the medium, while with CDs they
are knuckling under to pressure from the bean counters to make the CD as
loud as possible. For some reason when people listen to CDs they can't
find the volume knob and just turn the damn thing up.
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"David" wrote in message
...
Even if the source material was marginal, you'd still have sonic
advantages with a CD. For example, the elimination of ticks and pops,
wow-and-flutter, and rumble. But I miss my anti-static gun, dirt
brush, and Yamaha direct-drive turntable nonetheless...


Gee I sure don't!
And I certainly don't miss the ticks, pops, wow, flutter, and rumble
either. Nor the cost of replacement stylii or cartridges. Or trying to
find decently made vinyl records in the first place! In fact I can't
think of one thing I miss besides the bigger cover art. But the storage
hassle more than negates that IMO.


Yet another person that hasn't listened to a recent release on vinyl and
compared it to the same release on CD then?
You'd be eating your words if you had. For some reason the sound
engineers that mix vinyl, in general, don't compress the hell out of the
dynamic range like they do CD.


Which of course has absolutely *nothing* to do with the pro's and cons of
vinyl Vs CD, only the mastering choices.

Trevor.


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"David" wrote in message
...
Yet another person that hasn't listened to a recent release on vinyl and
compared it to the same release on CD then?
You'd be eating your words if you had. For some reason the sound
engineers
that mix vinyl, in general, don't compress the hell out of the dynamic
range
like they do CD.


That depends on the CD.


Which is why I put 'in general' as it has been what I have found more
often than not.
LPs do cost about 3 times the price of CDs now (~£18) but are 'in general'
pressed on good quality heavy weight virgin vinyl.



And are still far inferiror in every technical aspect than a standard CD,
*IF* the same music is put on both. Whether it is or isn't is simply a
marketing choice.

Trevor.




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"Edwin Hurwitz" wrote in message
...
That's because in vinyl land they are trying to maximize the dynamic
range in the face of the limitations of the medium, while with CDs they
are knuckling under to pressure from the bean counters to make the CD as
loud as possible.


Yes amazing that the medium with the greater possible dynamic range often
has less. BUT it's only a marketing choice, NOT an inherent benefit of vinyl
as some people still claim after all these years.

Trevor.


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On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 17:36:23 +0000 (UTC), Warren
wrote:

Trevor expounded in
. au:


"Warren" wrote in message
. 213...
The superbowl HD was just as good with the mute button on
as it was when it was off.


Better surely? :-)


Definitely during commercials!!

The only detraction was the word "Mute" at the top of the
screen. ;-)


So just reduce the volume to zero instead, and there is no
"Mute" overlay to annoy you.

Trevor.


Not a problem really. If I use my cable box for mute, the
word vanishes after a short time. The TV mute is more
invasive and stays there.

Warren


You do not have an A/V Receiver?
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On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:36:47 -0700, Edwin Hurwitz
wrote:

In article ,
"David" wrote:

"Trevor" wrote in message
...

"Randy Yates" wrote in message
m...
Even if the source material was marginal, you'd still have sonic
advantages with a CD. For example, the elimination of ticks and pops,
wow-and-flutter, and rumble. But I miss my anti-static gun, dirt
brush, and Yamaha direct-drive turntable nonetheless...

Gee I sure don't!
And I certainly don't miss the ticks, pops, wow, flutter, and rumble
either. Nor the cost of replacement stylii or cartridges. Or trying to
find decently made vinyl records in the first place! In fact I can't think
of one thing I miss besides the bigger cover art. But the storage hassle
more than negates that IMO.


Yet another person that hasn't listened to a recent release on vinyl and
compared it to the same release on CD then?
You'd be eating your words if you had. For some reason the sound engineers
that mix vinyl, in general, don't compress the hell out of the dynamic range
like they do CD.


That's because in vinyl land they are trying to maximize the dynamic
range in the face of the limitations of the medium,


The slew rate (speed) of the cutting lathe's tool head, and the limits
of the playback stylus' ability to read a given peak. What is the window
of operation that Vinyl enjoys?

while with CDs they
are knuckling under to pressure from the bean counters to make the CD as
loud as possible.


Not in all cases. Just "modern" music, and "modern" producers and
engineers even. In the beginning folks actually tried to compose
acceptable mix-downs from the multi-track masters that were used to make
the lathe head mix downs.

I remember lyrics like "..when honor meant more to a man than life..."
AND the music that went with it.


For some reason when people listen to CDs they can't
find the volume knob and just turn the damn thing up.


The problems go far deeper than that.

Oh well. At lest we *should* be able to make a good transition to high
clarity, low noise recorded tracks.

Hell, I should be able to do pretty good right here on my PC, on my 8
year old Sound Blaster. Atlast compared to some of what I have heard on
disc.

I STILL say that one of the best albums ever made, despite having a
couple gaps and other artifacts, is a live album.

James Gang, Live At Carnegie Hall

THAT was what "loud" rock and roll was about. It would be cool if Joe
would get that band back together and do that tour again with modern amps
and drivers!

You should give it a listen LOUDLY. If you can't, then use headphones
or even ear plug types. Excellent album.
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On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:36:47 -0700, Edwin Hurwitz
wrote:

But I miss my anti-static gun, dirt
brush, and Yamaha direct-drive turntable nonetheless...



Try making moist breath on the needle (and record) as it plays. You
would be surprised at the absence of clicks suddenly. Static is a big
one.
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"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message
...
Which of course has absolutely *nothing* to do with the pro's and cons of
vinyl Vs CD, only the mastering choices.


The problem is people don't listen to CD or Vinyl. It is _music_ they
listen
to. All the wonderful technical parameters don't make music any better.


Right, or necessarily any worse.


Sure, CD looks better on paper. But it is already rule of thumb that
almost
everything that goes on CD is of inferior quality


An opinion you get to have, but there is very little to actually compare,
let alone arrive at such a sweeping conclusion. Of course "almost everything
that goes on CD" never even makes it to vinyl these days!


while those who make LPs
take great care to do the best job possible to overcome media
shortcomings.
That makes the resulting _music_ from LP beating CD by a huge margin
despite
CD being better media on paper.


Once again you forget to add "In your opinion", and neglect to mention that
only a MINISCULE amount of music being made these days is available on vinyl
in any case! I would certainly hope that the tiny percentage that does make
it to vinyl is more carefully produced/manufactured than what it was in days
gone by, especially considering the huge price premium now being asked.


Just try to listen to e.g. Bob Marley "Uprising" on a CD. It is a worst
nightmare I ever heard. That is why I have all his records on LPs. CDs
don't
even come close to those. But they are better on paper, yes.


Right, and any differences are simply production/marketing choices or
compromises. Vinyl certainly requires far more of the latter!
One can easily copy a vinyl record to CD without any loss of quality. The
reverse is simply impossible.
And CD's/SACD's/DVDA's aimed at the audiophile ( and audiophool) market are
still far more numerous than new vinyl releases, despite being a tiny
percentage of the market.

Trevor.




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David wrote:
"Trevor" wrote in message
...

"Randy Yates" wrote in message
m...
Even if the source material was marginal, you'd still have sonic
advantages with a CD. For example, the elimination of ticks and
pops, wow-and-flutter, and rumble. But I miss my anti-static gun,
dirt brush, and Yamaha direct-drive turntable nonetheless...


Gee I sure don't!
And I certainly don't miss the ticks, pops, wow, flutter, and rumble
either. Nor the cost of replacement stylii or cartridges. Or trying
to find decently made vinyl records in the first place! In fact I
can't think of one thing I miss besides the bigger cover art. But
the storage hassle more than negates that IMO.


Yet another person that hasn't listened to a recent release on vinyl
and compared it to the same release on CD then?
You'd be eating your words if you had. For some reason the sound
engineers that mix vinyl, in general, don't compress the hell out of
the dynamic range like they do CD.


They don't need to - the medium does it for them ! Or low-level detail is
lost.

Are you suggesting that those same engineers for some bizarre reason
over-compress the CD releases of that same material? Then they are
incompetent !

Or are you commenting on the general 'norms' of CD mastering these days ?

geoff


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MadManMoon wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:36:47 -0700, Edwin Hurwitz
wrote:

But I miss my anti-static gun, dirt
brush, and Yamaha direct-drive turntable nonetheless...



Try making moist breath on the needle (and record) as it plays. You
would be surprised at the absence of clicks suddenly. Static is a big
one.


So much for the 'ideal listening position' !

geoff


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Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

Much of that worth listening does. As of remaining 99.9% of that
monotonic indiscernible from each other noise I don't care.


Please don't denegrate reggae music like that.

geoff


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Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

Sure, CD looks better on paper. But it is already rule of thumb that
almost everything that goes on CD is of inferior quality while those
who make LPs take great care to do the best job possible to overcome
media shortcomings. That makes the resulting _music_ from LP beating
CD by a huge margin despite CD being better media on paper.


Sorry, your thumb may be non-standard, the issue is that those that master
for grammophone records tend to know what they are doing and master
completely different from how those that !!!MASTER FOR CD'S DO IT!!!

Just try to listen to e.g. Bob Marley "Uprising" on a CD. It is a
worst nightmare I ever heard.


A lot of early digital transcriptions ought to be re-done.

That is why I have all his records on
LPs. CDs don't even come close to those. But they are better on
paper, yes.


What you assert is that nothing happened with AD conversion quality between
1985 and 2011.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen



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"MadManMoon" wrote in
message

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:36:47 -0700, Edwin Hurwitz
wrote:


That's because in vinyl land they are trying to maximize
the dynamic range in the face of the limitations of the
medium,


The slew rate (speed) of the cutting lathe's tool head,
and the limits of the playback stylus' ability to read a
given peak. What is the window of operation that Vinyl
enjoys?


If memory serves, vinyl's dynamic range starts falling pretty rapidly above
about 8 KHz.

While CD-4 recordings were made with 30+ KHz carriers on them, those signals
were cut at very low levels. Playing them tends to erase them after a few
playings, even with the best cartridges and stylii. People I know who have
experimented with CD4 tell me that about 10 playings is it.




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"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message


Sure, CD looks better on paper. But it is already rule of
thumb that almost everything that goes on CD is of
inferior quality while those who make LPs take great care
to do the best job possible to overcome media
shortcomings. That makes the resulting _music_ from LP
beating CD by a huge margin despite CD being better media
on paper.


LP media limitations are well known to create a technological strait jacket
that very few people have the patience to try to escape from. There's a
reason why the CD blew the LP out of the mainstream music market and that is
better sound quality almost all of the time.

The idea that you have put your production people into strait jackets to get
the best work out of them is positively wierd and just a little insulting.

One unsaid thing about LP production in 2010 is that it is only for a
premium, niche market. I googled the price of the LP, and found that it
was over $45 and needs to be special ordered. The CD is being sold by Best
Buy for $9.99.

If the CD is poorly mastered, then its buyers have nobody to blame but
themselves. Refuse to buy badly mastered CDs! If you stumble into one, try
to take it back and make a big fuss! Don't throw out the baby with the bath
water!


Just try to listen to e.g. Bob Marley "Uprising" on a CD.
It is a worst nightmare I ever heard. That is why I have
all his records on LPs. CDs don't even come close to
those. But they are better on paper, yes.


Here we have a myth supported by very limited evidence.


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"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message


Much of that worth listening does.


Any reasonble comparison of the number of new releases on LP and CD makes
that look like a fantasy. What I see is a diehard LP fan who has limited his
musical tastes to the limitations of his hobby-horse medium.


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"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
k

What you assert is that nothing happened with AD
conversion quality between 1985 and 2011.


In terms of sound quality from the best performing hardware, there was no
change.

In terms of price/performance, the changes were huge. Therefore, the sound
quality of everyday digital gear did improve quite a bit.


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On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 19:41:43 +1300, "geoff" wrote:

MadManMoon wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:36:47 -0700, Edwin Hurwitz
wrote:

But I miss my anti-static gun, dirt
brush, and Yamaha direct-drive turntable nonetheless...



Try making moist breath on the needle (and record) as it plays. You
would be surprised at the absence of clicks suddenly. Static is a big
one.


So much for the 'ideal listening position' !

geoff

That was not the point.
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On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 07:25:01 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"MadManMoon" wrote in
message

On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:36:47 -0700, Edwin Hurwitz
wrote:


That's because in vinyl land they are trying to maximize
the dynamic range in the face of the limitations of the
medium,


The slew rate (speed) of the cutting lathe's tool head,
and the limits of the playback stylus' ability to read a
given peak. What is the window of operation that Vinyl
enjoys?


If memory serves, vinyl's dynamic range starts falling pretty rapidly above
about 8 KHz.

While CD-4 recordings were made with 30+ KHz carriers on them, those signals
were cut at very low levels. Playing them tends to erase them after a few
playings, even with the best cartridges and stylii. People I know who have
experimented with CD4 tell me that about 10 playings is it.


I wonder what format the audio tracks on a Laser Disc were put down as.


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"geoff" wrote in message
Yet another person that hasn't listened to a recent release on vinyl
and compared it to the same release on CD then?
You'd be eating your words if you had. For some reason the sound
engineers that mix vinyl, in general, don't compress the hell out of
the dynamic range like they do CD.


Are you suggesting that those same engineers for some bizarre reason
over-compress the CD releases of that same material? Then they are
incompetent !


Indeed they do and it's not incompetence, it's marketing pressure......'Loud
is good' and all that bollox.
The majority of people that buy digital music formats play it as background
music or in cars or on Ipods etc. so dynamic range is wasted on them.
The majority of people that still buy vinyl, sit down and listen to it.
Yes CD could be much better than vinyl but in reallity because of the
mastering, it's not.

D


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"MadManMoon" wrote in
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On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 07:25:01 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"MadManMoon" wrote
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On Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:36:47 -0700, Edwin Hurwitz
wrote:


That's because in vinyl land they are trying to
maximize the dynamic range in the face of the
limitations of the medium,

The slew rate (speed) of the cutting lathe's tool head,
and the limits of the playback stylus' ability to read a
given peak. What is the window of operation that Vinyl
enjoys?


If memory serves, vinyl's dynamic range starts falling
pretty rapidly above about 8 KHz.

While CD-4 recordings were made with 30+ KHz carriers on
them, those signals were cut at very low levels. Playing
them tends to erase them after a few playings, even with
the best cartridges and stylii. People I know who have
experimented with CD4 tell me that about 10 playings is
it.


I wonder what format the audio tracks on a Laser Disc
were put down as.


If memory serves:

On older LDs, the sound was recorded in FM and also received DBX noise
reduction or something like it.

Later LDs had regular Linear PCM tracks like CDs.

Full truth he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laserdisc


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David wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message
Yet another person that hasn't listened to a recent release on vinyl
and compared it to the same release on CD then?
You'd be eating your words if you had. For some reason the sound
engineers that mix vinyl, in general, don't compress the hell out of
the dynamic range like they do CD.


Are you suggesting that those same engineers for some bizarre reason
over-compress the CD releases of that same material? Then they are
incompetent !


Indeed they do and it's not incompetence, it's marketing
pressure......'Loud is good' and all that bollox.
The majority of people that buy digital music formats play it as
background music or in cars or on Ipods etc. so dynamic range is
wasted on them. The majority of people that still buy vinyl, sit down and
listen to
it. Yes CD could be much better than vinyl but in reallity because of the
mastering, it's not.


Well the answer is to record the vinyl onto CD and play it back from there
!

The different mastering (and noise, distortion, wow, flutter, limited
frequency and dynamic response, etc) will all be faithfully reproduced !

geoff


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In article ,
"Trevor" wrote:

"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message
...
Which of course has absolutely *nothing* to do with the pro's and cons of
vinyl Vs CD, only the mastering choices.


The problem is people don't listen to CD or Vinyl. It is _music_ they
listen
to. All the wonderful technical parameters don't make music any better.


Right, or necessarily any worse.


Sure, CD looks better on paper. But it is already rule of thumb that
almost
everything that goes on CD is of inferior quality


An opinion you get to have, but there is very little to actually compare,
let alone arrive at such a sweeping conclusion. Of course "almost everything
that goes on CD" never even makes it to vinyl these days!


while those who make LPs
take great care to do the best job possible to overcome media
shortcomings.
That makes the resulting _music_ from LP beating CD by a huge margin
despite
CD being better media on paper.


Once again you forget to add "In your opinion", and neglect to mention that
only a MINISCULE amount of music being made these days is available on vinyl
in any case! I would certainly hope that the tiny percentage that does make
it to vinyl is more carefully produced/manufactured than what it was in days
gone by, especially considering the huge price premium now being asked.



And I think that David Glasser and all his colleagues at Airshow
Mastering (the only masterers I know personally, so I feel like I can
predict their response fairly accurately) would take exception to the
idea that they approach their craft with any less diligence simply
because their products would end up on a CD or other digital medium.
Their Grammies would seem to validate their attention to their craft.

Edwin
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"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message
...

These days most of it is like SPAM. There is no difference what brand it
is
or what color the label is, it is SPAM. And there is no need for a french
chief for this, everybody would do. It is no longer needed that one can
sing
or play a musical instrument to become a "musician" or a "singer" -- 99%
of
all, sorry for an expression, music is just dancing to a phonogram an
showing boobs. They can be deaf and dumb but still be "singers." No voice
required.


While your opinion is shared by many, I fail to see how that makes vinyl
better than CD. ANYTHING can be released on either format, and frankly I
prefer a format which is technically superior, more convenient, cheaper, AND
allows ME a far greater choice. That you prefer your choices to be limited
to what is put on vinyl these days is your right, and you are welcome to it.

Trevor.




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"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message
...
Well the answer is to record the vinyl onto CD and play it back from
there
The different mastering (and noise, distortion, wow, flutter, limited
frequency and dynamic response, etc) will all be faithfully reproduced !


That is exactly what some of us, including myself, are doing. As a matter
of
fact it is not just copying to a CD -- they are digitized in 24/96 and
that
digitized material is saved and listened to if conditions permit.


Only the technically illiterate believe ANY vinyl requires 24/96 recording.
Even 14 bits is overkill for vinyl. So IF you actually find a record with
frequencies over 22kHz that you dog really likes, just save it at 16/88 or
16/96 and save yourself a few bytes :-)

Trevor.


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"geoff" wrote in message
...
Sergey Kubushyn wrote:

Much of that worth listening does. As of remaining 99.9% of that
monotonic indiscernible from each other noise I don't care.


Please don't denegrate reggae music like that.


Reggae, I thought he meant ©RAP. :-)

Trevor.


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"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
k...
the issue is that those that master for grammophone records tend to know
what they are doing and master completely different from how those that
!!!MASTER FOR CD'S DO IT!!!


One would hope so! Most learnt 25 years ago that what is required for
vinyl's limitations is NOT required for CD.
(Unfortunately the loudness wars are another issue)


A lot of early digital transcriptions ought to be re-done.


Most have been thankfully, but not all are improvements :-(

Trevor.


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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
While CD-4 recordings were made with 30+ KHz carriers on them, those
signals were cut at very low levels. Playing them tends to erase them
after a few playings, even with the best cartridges and stylii. People I
know who have experimented with CD4 tell me that about 10 playings is it.


Depends on many factors. My B&O MMC6000 could still recover the carrier
after *FAR* more playings than that. Of course the actual surround signal
was pretty crap to begin with on most (all?) CD4 records, just as might be
expected from such a compromised system.

Trevor.


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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Here we have a myth supported by very limited evidence.


Actually no evidence, just opinion.

Trevor.




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"Edwin Hurwitz" wrote in message
...
And I think that David Glasser and all his colleagues at Airshow
Mastering (the only masterers I know personally, so I feel like I can
predict their response fairly accurately) would take exception to the
idea that they approach their craft with any less diligence simply
because their products would end up on a CD or other digital medium.
Their Grammies would seem to validate their attention to their craft.


No Argument, and would contradict the silly claim that *only* vinyl records
have proper mastering these days right!

Trevor.


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On Wed, 2 Mar 2011 02:31:18 +0000 (UTC), Sergey Kubushyn
wrote:

both ways but usually it is what
happens.



You do NOT *know* that. You do NOT work in a recording studio.

You do NOT know what the **** you are squawking about.

EACH production is unique, and MANY get the SAME level of care that a
vinyl mix down got.

What a presumptuous twit you must be to say that. It's OK though. You
have successfully given yourself away as someone that makes **** up as
you go along.
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"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message
...
That does _NOT_ mean I personally cut my own LPs No, I do use CD as a
media for everyday listening and 24/96 digital files for archival
purposes.
But if there is a choice of getting some recording in either form I will
always choose vinyl as my primary source. Then I'll make 2 copies of it,
one
as 24/96 file and--oh horror!--another one as analog tape.


Wow, given the cost of R-R tape these days, and it's poor quality compared
to digital (I won't even mention how woefull cassettes are!) that is truly
amazing. But some people still think 78's are the only real media, so I
guess it takes all kinds. Anyone still claiming cylinders are the best I
wonder? :-)

And for the record I still have my Revox tape recorder, but I haven't even
turned it on in nearly a decade! (Wonder if it still works?)
My Thorens TT still works for copying old vinyl. Certainly wouldn't waste my
money on any new discs though.

Trevor.


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"Sergey Kubushyn" wrote in message
...
Thanks for a suggestion but now, I won't do it. Music is _NOT_ a pure
sinusoidal waves and there are other things like attack, shape etc. The
primary mistake all those proponents of wonderful digital sound make is
assumption that analog audio ends at 20KHz. It doesn't. It doesn't end
even
at 30KHz and higher. Its amplitude falls quite rapidly, yes, but there is
no
such an abrupt cutoff at 22KHz.


Right, the auditory system collapses well before that, unless you are an 8
YO girl!


Another reason, totally unrelated, for 24/96 is that is a standard
de-facto
these days. All those 16/88 and 16/96 are not. And storage is dirt cheap
these days to save pennies by using some weird format.


And how much do you pay for tape these days (per your other post) Now that's
a weird format these days! :-)

Trevor.


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On 02/27/2011 09:02 PM, Trevor wrote:
"Randy wrote in message
m...
Even if the source material was marginal, you'd still have sonic
advantages with a CD. For example, the elimination of ticks and pops,
wow-and-flutter, and rumble. But I miss my anti-static gun, dirt
brush, and Yamaha direct-drive turntable nonetheless...


Gee I sure don't!
And I certainly don't miss the ticks, pops, wow, flutter, and rumble either.
Nor the cost of replacement stylii or cartridges. Or trying to find decently
made vinyl records in the first place! In fact I can't think of one thing I
miss besides the bigger cover art. But the storage hassle more than negates
that IMO.


Trevor,

You've missed my point completely. I miss the nostalgia of the era.
--
Randy Yates Digital Signal Labs
919-577-9882 http://www.digitalsignallabs.com


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