I have a Audio Source subwoofer test cd if anyone would like a copy....MP3
or WMA I can email or whatever

Wouldn't mp3 or any compressed format be a potential problem for very low
freqs?

What is the choice setup and test cd these days to evaluate image, spectrum
and everything else?


"ReEfErMaDnEsS" wrote in message
news:SDUWb.16065$jk2.53300@attbi_s53...
I have a Audio Source subwoofer test cd if anyone would like a copy....MP3
or WMA I can email or whatever

Jim Hoff wrote:
Wouldn't mp3 or any compressed format be a potential problem for very low
freqs?

What is the choice setup and test cd these days to evaluate image, spectrum
and everything else?


"ReEfErMaDnEsS" wrote in message
news:SDUWb.16065$jk2.53300@attbi_s53...

I have a Audio Source subwoofer test cd if anyone would like a copy....MP3
or WMA I can email or whatever







If you have wav's post them on an FTP server or binaries group...I am
always looking... By the way, I never use compressed audio for
evaluating systems' imaging or settings, its not a totally accurate
material source for those purposes. Jim is right that it can be problem.
Many of the lower frequencies are filtered out and a lot of the
harmonics are lost in the higher ones.


EFFENDI

If you have wav's post them on an FTP server or binaries group...I am
always looking... By the way, I never use compressed audio for
evaluating systems' imaging or settings, its not a totally accurate

Zipped WAVs are probably the way to go in this case.

P

I'd like a copy. Can you send it to MikeLivingstone at
coned.umanitoba.ca

Thanks

"ReEfErMaDnEsS" wrote in message
news:SDUWb.16065$jk2.53300@attbi_s53...
I have a Audio Source subwoofer test cd if anyone would like a copy....MP3
or WMA I can email or whatever

Use Monkey's Audio.

"Peter" wrote in message
...
If you have wav's post them on an FTP server or binaries group...I am
always looking... By the way, I never use compressed audio for
evaluating systems' imaging or settings, its not a totally accurate

Zipped WAVs are probably the way to go in this case.

P

Jim Hoff wrote:
Wouldn't mp3 or any compressed format be a potential problem for very low
freqs?

It depends mainly on the bitrate, and the quality of the codec, but no.
In fact, pure test tones rip cleanest of all. Think about it - there's
very little information in a 80 hz sine wave, as opposed to a full
spectrum cacophony of music. You could probably rip the CD at 128 kbps
and not notice a difference. I always recommend using Variable Bit Rate
(VBR) encoding.

Some notes: MP3 or MPEG Layer 3 is a proprietary format developed by
the frauenhoffer institute. Using MP3 files costs you nothing, but it
costs the developers oodles.

WMA is both proprietary, inferior to MP3, and contains Digital Rights
Management (DRM) provisions which can restrict your legal right to play
your music where you want.

Consider supporting and using OGG Vorbis. It is hella better on quality,
uses VBR by default, and sounds alot better at any given bitrate than
MP3, WMA, AAC, and so on. Best of all, it's free as in it costs nobody
to use it. One of the benefits of the Open Source/Free Software
movement. Did I mention it's superior to all other formats?


--
--
thelizman

http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio
"It's about the music, stupid"

In article ,
thelizman wrote:

Jim Hoff wrote:
Wouldn't mp3 or any compressed format be a potential problem for very low
freqs?

It depends mainly on the bitrate, and the quality of the codec, but no.
In fact, pure test tones rip cleanest of all. Think about it - there's
very little information in a 80 hz sine wave, as opposed to a full
spectrum cacophony of music. You could probably rip the CD at 128 kbps
and not notice a difference. I always recommend using Variable Bit Rate
(VBR) encoding.


There are codecs that can not process low frequencies. Most can but
they still often HPF at 10 Hz or 16 Hz unless the HPF is disabled.


Some notes: MP3 or MPEG Layer 3 is a proprietary format developed by
the frauenhoffer institute. Using MP3 files costs you nothing, but it
costs the developers oodles.

Fraunhofer owns bits of it here and there.


WMA is both proprietary, inferior to MP3, and contains Digital Rights
Management (DRM) provisions which can restrict your legal right to play
your music where you want.

Consider supporting and using OGG Vorbis. It is hella better on quality,
uses VBR by default, and sounds alot better at any given bitrate than
MP3, WMA, AAC, and so on. Best of all, it's free as in it costs nobody
to use it. One of the benefits of the Open Source/Free Software
movement. Did I mention it's superior to all other formats?

I didn't know OGG was still alive. It sucked ass when it first came out
and a lot of people left it for dead. I just downloaded the latest OGG
plugin for QuickTime to give a new try.


Here are some MPEG test tones that I found with Google.
http://www.genelec.com/support/testsignal.php

My Frankenstein's monster computer room speakers start working at 18Hz,
have a good response starting at 26 Hz, and peak around 60-80Hz.
Actually, I think 70Hz is the room's resonant frequency.

I have a 12" Shiva Mark III in a 6 cubic foot ported sub at work that I
tested with a tone generator. It's difficult guess its power output by
ear but nearby stuff shakes the most at 15 Hz

Kevin McMurtrie wrote:

There are codecs that can not process low frequencies. Most can but
they still often HPF at 10 Hz or 16 Hz unless the HPF is disabled.

Good luck finding a CD that honestly has 10hz or 16 hz tones - the
redbook format is 20 to 20k Hz.

I didn't know OGG was still alive. It sucked ass when it first came out
and a lot of people left it for dead. I just downloaded the latest OGG
plugin for QuickTime to give a new try.

You're using quicktime and you're going to question Ogg?

Ogg is very much alive and well, and it is largely considered the best
codec by audiophiles who have done double-blind listening tests.

--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

[psp800]

Hey i would like a copy of it in mp3 format can u send it to
NOTE there is a underscore between psp and 800
THNKS

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 04:39:08 +0000, psp800
wrote:


Hey i would like a copy of it in mp3 format can u send it to

NOTE there is a underscore between psp and 800
THNKS

Keep in mind that MP3 encoding doesn't do a very good job of
preserving low bass, especially the ultra-low bass that you usually
find on "test discs".

Unless you can get someone to send you an uncompressed version, you
might be better off buying one. And if you want a good bass demo/test
disc that's not all test tones, one of the best out there is Telarc's
"Great Fantasy/Adventure Album". It has a bass-heavy version of the
"Terminator" Theme, as well as a track called "Jurassic Lunch" that
uses something like a 10-ton hydraulic press to simulate the dinosaur
footsteps.

Much of the content on the Telarc disc is recorded LOUD, and some of
it goes down to 5 Hz, so be careful with the volume until you get used
to the tracks.

--
Scott Gardner

"If the pilot screws up, the pilot dies. If Air Traffic Control screws up, the pilot dies."

"Scott Gardner" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 04:39:08 +0000, psp800
wrote:


Hey i would like a copy of it in mp3 format can u send it to

NOTE there is a underscore between psp and 800
THNKS

Keep in mind that MP3 encoding doesn't do a very good job of
preserving low bass, especially the ultra-low bass that you usually
find on "test discs".

Unless you can get someone to send you an uncompressed version, you
might be better off buying one. And if you want a good bass demo/test
disc that's not all test tones, one of the best out there is Telarc's
"Great Fantasy/Adventure Album". It has a bass-heavy version of the
"Terminator" Theme, as well as a track called "Jurassic Lunch" that
uses something like a 10-ton hydraulic press to simulate the dinosaur
footsteps.

Much of the content on the Telarc disc is recorded LOUD, and some of
it goes down to 5 Hz, so be careful with the volume until you get used
to the tracks.

--
Scott Gardner

"If the pilot screws up, the pilot dies. If Air Traffic Control screws
up, the pilot dies."


Hey Scott are you a controller?

PY
PCT

IIRC isn't this why MP3 format is so much smaller in size? it cuts out what
you can't "hear" which is everything not 20-20k. Is there a way to rip the
audio and keep the quality like .wav format or something?


"Scott Gardner" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 04:39:08 +0000, psp800
wrote:


Hey i would like a copy of it in mp3 format can u send it to

NOTE there is a underscore between psp and 800
THNKS

Keep in mind that MP3 encoding doesn't do a very good job of
preserving low bass, especially the ultra-low bass that you usually
find on "test discs".

Unless you can get someone to send you an uncompressed version, you
might be better off buying one. And if you want a good bass demo/test
disc that's not all test tones, one of the best out there is Telarc's
"Great Fantasy/Adventure Album". It has a bass-heavy version of the
"Terminator" Theme, as well as a track called "Jurassic Lunch" that
uses something like a 10-ton hydraulic press to simulate the dinosaur
footsteps.

Much of the content on the Telarc disc is recorded LOUD, and some of
it goes down to 5 Hz, so be careful with the volume until you get used
to the tracks.

--
Scott Gardner

"If the pilot screws up, the pilot dies. If Air Traffic Control screws
up, the pilot dies."

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:07:32 GMT, "atcers" wrote:


"Scott Gardner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 04:39:08 +0000, psp800
wrote:


Hey i would like a copy of it in mp3 format can u send it to

NOTE there is a underscore between psp and 800
THNKS

Keep in mind that MP3 encoding doesn't do a very good job of
preserving low bass, especially the ultra-low bass that you usually
find on "test discs".

Unless you can get someone to send you an uncompressed version, you
might be better off buying one. And if you want a good bass demo/test
disc that's not all test tones, one of the best out there is Telarc's
"Great Fantasy/Adventure Album". It has a bass-heavy version of the
"Terminator" Theme, as well as a track called "Jurassic Lunch" that
uses something like a 10-ton hydraulic press to simulate the dinosaur
footsteps.

Much of the content on the Telarc disc is recorded LOUD, and some of
it goes down to 5 Hz, so be careful with the volume until you get used
to the tracks.

--
Scott Gardner

"If the pilot screws up, the pilot dies. If Air Traffic Control screws
up, the pilot dies."


Hey Scott are you a controller?

PY
PCT


I'm a mission commander in the Navy E-2C "Hawkeye", so
command-and-control is part of my job. I don't control civilian
aircraft very often, though. Mostly it's Navy fighters doing
defensive counter-air missions and strike missions.
--
Scott Gardner

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session." (Judge Gideon J. Tucker, 1866.)"

On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:05:01 -0500, "Chris Mullins" wrote:

IIRC isn't this why MP3 format is so much smaller in size? it cuts out what
you can't "hear" which is everything not 20-20k. Is there a way to rip the
audio and keep the quality like .wav format or something?


Well, the higher the bitrate, the better the copy will be, but I still
wouldn't use MP3 compression for a test disc. Apple has a lossless
encoding system that generates a perfect copy while still reducing the
file size significantly, but I don't know of many car players that can
play them.

You can copy a track directly from a CD and save it as a .WAV file,
and it will be uncompressed, and therefore the same quality as the
original. But since the bitrate is something like 1411 kbps, the
files are large (about 10 MB per minute).


--
Scott Gardner

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session." (Judge Gideon J. Tucker, 1866.)"

In article ,
Scott Gardner wrote:
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:05:01 -0500, "Chris Mullins" wrote:

IIRC isn't this why MP3 format is so much smaller in size? it cuts out what
you can't "hear" which is everything not 20-20k. Is there a way to rip the
audio and keep the quality like .wav format or something?


Well, the higher the bitrate, the better the copy will be, but I still
wouldn't use MP3 compression for a test disc.

It should be okay for a bass test disc *if* the encoder isn't set to
automatically drop out very low frequencies. Unfortunately, many are,
and if I recall correctly with Apple's you can't even turn that off.
They basically highpass everything above 15Hz and throw everything way
down below away.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon

"The inconsistency is startling, though admittedly, if consistency is to be
abandoned or transcended, there is no problem." - Noam Chomsky

"Scott Gardner" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:05:01 -0500, "Chris Mullins" wrote:

IIRC isn't this why MP3 format is so much smaller in size? it cuts out
what
you can't "hear" which is everything not 20-20k. Is there a way to rip
the
audio and keep the quality like .wav format or something?


Well, the higher the bitrate, the better the copy will be, but I still
wouldn't use MP3 compression for a test disc. Apple has a lossless
encoding system that generates a perfect copy while still reducing the
file size significantly, but I don't know of many car players that can
play them.

You can copy a track directly from a CD and save it as a .WAV file,
and it will be uncompressed, and therefore the same quality as the
original. But since the bitrate is something like 1411 kbps, the
files are large (about 10 MB per minute).

While I don't doubt your expertise, I found that a CD (Moby's 'Play') ripped
at 160 AAC vs Apple's lossless sounded, to my ears, much better on the low
end at 160, both in my ride and at home. Mind you, I didn't do any double
blind testing on it, but that was my clear impression.

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:12:28 GMT, "Dale Brisket"
wrote:


"Scott Gardner" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:05:01 -0500, "Chris Mullins" wrote:

IIRC isn't this why MP3 format is so much smaller in size? it cuts out
what
you can't "hear" which is everything not 20-20k. Is there a way to rip
the
audio and keep the quality like .wav format or something?


Well, the higher the bitrate, the better the copy will be, but I still
wouldn't use MP3 compression for a test disc. Apple has a lossless
encoding system that generates a perfect copy while still reducing the
file size significantly, but I don't know of many car players that can
play them.

You can copy a track directly from a CD and save it as a .WAV file,
and it will be uncompressed, and therefore the same quality as the
original. But since the bitrate is something like 1411 kbps, the
files are large (about 10 MB per minute).

While I don't doubt your expertise, I found that a CD (Moby's 'Play') ripped
at 160 AAC vs Apple's lossless sounded, to my ears, much better on the low
end at 160, both in my ride and at home. Mind you, I didn't do any double
blind testing on it, but that was my clear impression.


Well, unless there were errors in the encoding, the Apple Lossless
encoding should be just that - lossless. When the ALE file is decoded
for playback, the resulting file should be a perfect bit-for-bit copy
of the CD original.

Now, the 160 kbps AAC file could very well have sounded better to you,
depending on what frequencies were dropped out in the encoding.
"Perfect" reproduction isn't always what sounds "best" to us. That's
the reason some people really like the sound of tube amplifiers and
guitar amplifiers. Technically speaking, they're not as accurate as
modern solid-state amps, but because of the *type* of distortion they
introduce, some people actually prefer them.

Regardless, if the 160 kbps AAC files sound better to you, that's a
bonus, since they're smaller than the ALE files as well.


--
Scott Gardner

"Landing on the ship during the daytime is like sex, it's either good or it's great. Landing on the ship at night is like a trip to the dentist, you may get away with no pain, but you just don't feel comfortable." (LCDR Thomas Quinn, USN)