[Paul[_13_]]

......besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

That's in contrast to the pianos that were
parked over tile, with a high cathedral-like
ceiling, which sounded plenty bright.

Problem is, my living room where I plan to put
the piano is carpeted, and has an average ceiling
height, so I'm afraid what I hear in the showroom
ain't gonna be the same in my house. The salesman
suggested placing loose 1x1 foot tiles under the
piano, which would hopefully brighten things up
if it was needed.....

[hank alrich]

Paul wrote:

.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

That's in contrast to the pianos that were
parked over tile, with a high cathedral-like
ceiling, which sounded plenty bright.

Problem is, my living room where I plan to put
the piano is carpeted, and has an average ceiling
height, so I'm afraid what I hear in the showroom
ain't gonna be the same in my house. The salesman
suggested placing loose 1x1 foot tiles under the
piano, which would hopefully brighten things up
if it was needed.....

Using reflective surfaces over carpet is a tried and true method of
begetting helpful early reflections.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[polymod]

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...

Paul wrote:

.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

Have you considered a Yamaha?
I am not fond of Boston pianos and have a few customers that bought them and
share my opinion.

I'm sure the Steinway dealer will tell you different.

Poly

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
polymod wrote:


"hank alrich" wrote in message
...

Paul wrote:

.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

Have you considered a Yamaha?
I am not fond of Boston pianos and have a few customers that bought them and
share my opinion.

I'm sure the Steinway dealer will tell you different.

The Yamaha C-series will be brighter from the factory than the Boston. But
a good piano technician can make a Yamaha duller or a Steinway brighter in
order to match the room.

If I were looking to buy a studio piano today I'd look at a Petrov, at least
a bit.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[hank alrich]

polymod wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...

Paul wrote:

.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

Have you considered a Yamaha?
I am not fond of Boston pianos and have a few customers that bought them and
share my opinion.

I'm sure the Steinway dealer will tell you different.

Poly

I would look for a used piano, for starters, and a Yamaha if I wanted a
bright one. Personally, I'd prefer an old Mason & Hamlin, Chickering, or
Hune.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[polymod]

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
polymod wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...

Paul wrote:

.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

Have you considered a Yamaha?
I am not fond of Boston pianos and have a few customers that bought them
and
share my opinion.

I'm sure the Steinway dealer will tell you different.

Poly

I would look for a used piano, for starters, and a Yamaha if I wanted a
bright one. Personally, I'd prefer an old Mason & Hamlin, Chickering, or
Hune.

Mason & Hamlin is one of my favorite pianos. I have a few customers that own
one and they're a pleasure to tune and regulate.

Poly

[polymod]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
polymod wrote:


"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .

Paul wrote:

.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

Have you considered a Yamaha?
I am not fond of Boston pianos and have a few customers that bought them
and
share my opinion.

I'm sure the Steinway dealer will tell you different.

The Yamaha C-series will be brighter from the factory than the Boston.
But
a good piano technician can make a Yamaha duller or a Steinway brighter in
order to match the room.

Absolutely.
But I'll just add that every piano sounds different. Last year I had 10 C
series lined up in a dealer showroom...and I played every one of them. Some
were bright, some not so much.
I lucked out....My Yamaha P22 not only has a nice action, it's right in the
middle between bright and mellow. It was one of the last ones made in their
Georgia plant, which IMO were better than the ones made in Japan.

Poly

[polymod]

"Paul" wrote in message
...
.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

That's in contrast to the pianos that were
parked over tile, with a high cathedral-like
ceiling, which sounded plenty bright.

Problem is, my living room where I plan to put
the piano is carpeted, and has an average ceiling
height, so I'm afraid what I hear in the showroom
ain't gonna be the same in my house. The salesman
suggested placing loose 1x1 foot tiles under the
piano, which would hopefully brighten things up
if it was needed.....

The music director at a local church I tune at had the same concerns as
you're having.
He was torn between a Yamaha U1 and a Boston Studio Upright.

A local dealer brought in both to the church. The music director like the
Boston, they bought it on the spot, and the movers carted the U-1 back to
the store.
Depending on your relationship with the Steinway dealer, it might not be a
bad idea to just ask if this is possible. I'm sure the cost of the
instrument will sway their answer one way or another.

Good luck!
Poly

[Peter A. Stoll[_2_]]

Paul wrote:

the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

I think a technician can adjust voicing over a considerable range. Much of what
people imagine to be inherent brightness difference is just a difference in the state of
the hammers on the particular samples they happen to have played. This is assuming
your objection is to the instrument, and not to the room it is playing in.

But just to run to the other side of the discussion, I once intervened in excessive bright
and loud piano sound in a recital recording I was preparing for by suggesting that a
nearby rug be placed under the offending grand, which was on a tile church floor. All
concerned (teacher, pianist, and the vocalists who had employed me) thought for that
case it was a real improvement during the rehearsal, and they already had it in place by
the time I arrived next day for the real event. (this time more gracefully placed under
the stage truck instead of just draped over it).

[Paul[_13_]]

On 11/5/2013 4:56 AM, polymod wrote:


"hank alrich" wrote in message
...

Paul wrote:

.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

Have you considered a Yamaha?


Yes, they are excellent pianos.

My local dealer has a used C7, 7'4", for $15,900, with
real ivory keys.

Also tried a 5'3" ($13,950 New, I believe), and
a used 5' for $9950. The 5' may have been lacking
bass end for my taste, but this particular 5'3" had
enough meat on the low end, so it's a possibility.


I am not fond of Boston pianos and have a few customers that bought them
and share my opinion.

I'm sure the Steinway dealer will tell you different.


What exactly are the complaints you and your customers have with
the Boston line?

[polymod]

"Jeff Henig" wrote in message
...
hank alrich wrote:
polymod wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...

Paul wrote:

.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

Have you considered a Yamaha?
I am not fond of Boston pianos and have a few customers that bought them
and
share my opinion.

I'm sure the Steinway dealer will tell you different.

Poly

I would look for a used piano, for starters, and a Yamaha if I wanted a
bright one. Personally, I'd prefer an old Mason & Hamlin, Chickering, or
Hune.


Meanwhile, I still have my Casio.

Ahem.

Just kidding. Wurlitzer Spinet. But it's almost a Casio compared to your
mentions.

That's ok. Nothing wrong with a Wurli spinet. IMO it's the 2nd best spinet
made after the Baldwin Acrosonic.

Poly

[polymod]

"Paul" wrote in message
...
On 11/5/2013 4:56 AM, polymod wrote:


"hank alrich" wrote in message
...

Paul wrote:

.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

Have you considered a Yamaha?


Yes, they are excellent pianos.

My local dealer has a used C7, 7'4", for $15,900, with
real ivory keys.

It must be pretty old. They stopped making ivory keys a long time ago.
It's a rebuilt piano right?
I have a customer that has the C7 in his tiny appartment. You litterally
have to squeeze by it to use his bathroom
But it sounds awesome.

Also tried a 5'3" ($13,950 New, I believe), and
a used 5' for $9950. The 5' may have been lacking
bass end for my taste, but this particular 5'3" had
enough meat on the low end, so it's a possibility.


I am not fond of Boston pianos and have a few customers that bought them
and share my opinion.

I'm sure the Steinway dealer will tell you different.


What exactly are the complaints you and your customers have with the
Boston line?

Just don't like them period. It has the Steinway name behind it, but it's no
Steinway. I've had one particularly bad experience with the piano as well as
warrantee issues with the dealer who sold it. I really don't want to get
into specifics.

Poly

[polymod]

"Peter A. Stoll" wrote in message
...

Paul wrote:

the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

I think a technician can adjust voicing over a considerable range.

Nothing worse than doing this on a brand new piano.
Buy the piano that sounds right in the first place.

Poly

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Jeff Henig wrote:
"polymod" wrote:
"Jeff Henig" wrote in message
...
hank alrich wrote:
polymod wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...

Paul wrote:

.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

Have you considered a Yamaha?
I am not fond of Boston pianos and have a few customers that bought them
and
share my opinion.

I'm sure the Steinway dealer will tell you different.

Poly

I would look for a used piano, for starters, and a Yamaha if I wanted a
bright one. Personally, I'd prefer an old Mason & Hamlin, Chickering, or
Hune.


Meanwhile, I still have my Casio.

Ahem.

Just kidding. Wurlitzer Spinet. But it's almost a Casio compared to your
mentions.

That's ok. Nothing wrong with a Wurli spinet. IMO it's the 2nd best spinet
made after the Baldwin Acrosonic.

Poly

Even with the crayon marks on the keys? *grin*

Our kids love it. I just wish we had the money and the room for a baby
grand.


Me too, but I wouldn't spend it on a room and a baby grand.

My gear lust making another ugly entrance. Because you're right--it doesn't
really sound bad when tuned up properly.


*Can* a Wurlitzer be tuned? The one my Mom had; no, the console I had;
no. ...

I ditched real pianos when I got a ROMpler. Works much better for my
purposes.

--
Les Cargill

[polymod]

"Jeff Henig" wrote in message
...
"polymod" wrote:
"Jeff Henig" wrote in message
...
hank alrich wrote:
polymod wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...

Paul wrote:

.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

Have you considered a Yamaha?
I am not fond of Boston pianos and have a few customers that bought
them
and
share my opinion.

I'm sure the Steinway dealer will tell you different.

Poly

I would look for a used piano, for starters, and a Yamaha if I wanted a
bright one. Personally, I'd prefer an old Mason & Hamlin, Chickering,
or
Hune.


Meanwhile, I still have my Casio.

Ahem.

Just kidding. Wurlitzer Spinet. But it's almost a Casio compared to your
mentions.

That's ok. Nothing wrong with a Wurli spinet. IMO it's the 2nd best
spinet
made after the Baldwin Acrosonic.

Poly

Even with the crayon marks on the keys? *grin*

Ouch!

Our kids love it. I just wish we had the money and the room for a baby
grand.

Save your money and buy a good quality upright. You'll get more bang for the
buck.

My gear lust making another ugly entrance. Because you're right--it
doesn't
really sound bad when tuned up properly.

As long as it's being enjoyed, that's the main thing!

Poly

[polymod]

"Les Cargill" wrote in message
...
Jeff Henig wrote:

*Can* a Wurlitzer be tuned? The one my Mom had; no, the console I had;
no. ...

All pianos can be tuned... with the exception of the when the pin block gets
dried out and can no longer hold the tension of the strings. People like to
put their pianos right next to a heating vent or backed up to a baseboard
heater. Not good.

Poly

[polymod]

"Jeff Henig" wrote in message
...
"polymod" wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message
...
polymod wrote:

"hank alrich" wrote in message
...

Paul wrote:

.....besides affecting recording and mixing/monitoring.

Been trying some Boston and Essex pianos at my
local Steinway dealer, and the pianos tucked under
a low-ceiling, over carpet, and against the wall,
end up sounding quite dull and "muffled", with not
enough brightness to them.

Have you considered a Yamaha?
I am not fond of Boston pianos and have a few customers that bought
them
and
share my opinion.

I'm sure the Steinway dealer will tell you different.

Poly

I would look for a used piano, for starters, and a Yamaha if I wanted a
bright one. Personally, I'd prefer an old Mason & Hamlin, Chickering, or
Hune.

Mason & Hamlin is one of my favorite pianos. I have a few customers that
own
one and they're a pleasure to tune and regulate.

Poly

You tune and regulate your customers?

That takes talent.

LOL!

Poly

[Scott Dorsey]

polymod wrote:
"Les Cargill" wrote in message
Jeff Henig wrote:

*Can* a Wurlitzer be tuned? The one my Mom had; no, the console I had;
no. ...

All pianos can be tuned... with the exception of the when the pin block gets
dried out and can no longer hold the tension of the strings. People like to
put their pianos right next to a heating vent or backed up to a baseboard
heater. Not good.

Or when the pin block gets worn out (often the result of bad tuners or
sometimes just age and use). Or when the pin block is (chinese piano)
garbage in the (white chinese piano) first place (made in guangzhou).
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[polymod]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
polymod wrote:
"Les Cargill" wrote in message
Jeff Henig wrote:

*Can* a Wurlitzer be tuned? The one my Mom had; no, the console I had;
no. ...

All pianos can be tuned... with the exception of the when the pin block
gets
dried out and can no longer hold the tension of the strings. People like
to
put their pianos right next to a heating vent or backed up to a baseboard
heater. Not good.

Or when the pin block gets worn out (often the result of bad tuners or
sometimes just age and use).

Scott, I've been tuning since the mid 70's and I've never seen a pin block
worn out due to a bad tuner!
I would imagine it *could* be done , but I have a hard time believing any
tuner would not have some sort of pin/string setting technique before going
into business.

Poly