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GerryE123 GerryE123 is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!

Hi:

A friend loaned me a pair of adapters to run triode connected 46s in my 45
amp. Here's a photo of the amp (with Arcturus globe 46s):

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...e123/46amp.jpg

So far, I like the sound of the 46s better than ANY 45 I have compared them
to. The 46s sound more powerful and make the 45s sound wimpy in comparison.
They also have significantly better bass response. I don't think it's just
a volume thing as the 46s seem to do all of the good things that 45s are
known for.

I'm not a techie, but I'm trying to understand why this is. Here's a scan
of the RCA Tube Manual (RC-17):

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...e123/45-46.jpg

My amp's output transformers are Magnequest DS050s. The input and driver
tubes are both sections of a 5687. Why do the 46s sound more powerful?
Also, why is the bass response significantly better? Last, why does a
triode connected 46 sound as good as a 45 in all or most other attributes?

Any comments or insights would be appreciated! Thank you.

Gerry


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John Byrns John Byrns is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!

In article ,
"GerryE123" wrote:

Hi:

A friend loaned me a pair of adapters to run triode connected 46s in my 45
amp. Here's a photo of the amp (with Arcturus globe 46s):

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...e123/46amp.jpg


What's that big tube in the center, rectifier or voltage amplifier? If
it is the rectifier where are the input stages/voltage amplifier tubes?

So far, I like the sound of the 46s better than ANY 45 I have compared them
to. The 46s sound more powerful and make the 45s sound wimpy in comparison.
They also have significantly better bass response. I don't think it's just
a volume thing as the 46s seem to do all of the good things that 45s are
known for.

I'm not a techie, but I'm trying to understand why this is. Here's a scan
of the RCA Tube Manual (RC-17):

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...e123/45-46.jpg

My amp's output transformers are Magnequest DS050s. The input and driver
tubes are both sections of a 5687. Why do the 46s sound more powerful?
Also, why is the bass response significantly better? Last, why does a
triode connected 46 sound as good as a 45 in all or most other attributes?

Any comments or insights would be appreciated! Thank you.


The bass response probably sounds "better" because the damping factor
with the 46 is lower than with the 45.

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/
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Andy Evans Andy Evans is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!

I've used the 46 quite a lot as a driver - for 300b, 2a3 etc. In the
driver position I preferred it to 45, which sounded thinner and more
bland (though still mighty good).

I haven't tried 46 as an output, but it doesn't surprise me that it
works well.

Andy
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keithr keithr is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!


"John Byrns" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"GerryE123" wrote:

Hi:

A friend loaned me a pair of adapters to run triode connected 46s in my
45
amp. Here's a photo of the amp (with Arcturus globe 46s):

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...e123/46amp.jpg


What's that big tube in the center, rectifier or voltage amplifier? If
it is the rectifier where are the input stages/voltage amplifier tubes?

Since it says 5Z3 on the base I doubt that you'd get much voltage
amplification from it

Keith


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GerryE123 GerryE123 is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!

"John Byrns" wrote:
What's that big tube in the center, rectifier or voltage amplifier? If
it is the rectifier where are the input stages/voltage amplifier tubes?


John - thank you for your reply. As noted below by Keith, it's a 5Z3. With
separate AC and B+ switches, the amp is also set up to run an 83. The 5687
input/driver tubes are behind the output transformers and can't be seen in
that photo, but can be seen here (older photo without the globe 46s):

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...23/blue45b.jpg

The bass response probably sounds "better" because the damping factor
with the 46 is lower than with the 45.


I thought lower damping factor would result in "worse" bass? Are you saying
that I'm prefering the "loose" bass produced by a lower damping factor?

Gerry




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John Byrns John Byrns is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!

In article ,
"GerryE123" wrote:

"John Byrns" wrote:
What's that big tube in the center, rectifier or voltage amplifier? If
it is the rectifier where are the input stages/voltage amplifier tubes?


John - thank you for your reply. As noted below by Keith, it's a 5Z3. With
separate AC and B+ switches, the amp is also set up to run an 83. The 5687
input/driver tubes are behind the output transformers and can't be seen in
that photo, but can be seen here (older photo without the globe 46s):

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...23/blue45b.jpg

The bass response probably sounds "better" because the damping factor
with the 46 is lower than with the 45.


I thought lower damping factor would result in "worse" bass? Are you saying
that I'm prefering the "loose" bass produced by a lower damping factor?


Depends on what you mean by "better", or "worse" bass. Low "damping
factor" doesn't produce "loose" bass, it simply changes the frequency
response curve of the speaker. I understand some people even like 4th
order speaker alignments, talk about "loose".

--
Regards,

John Byrns

Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/
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Raymond Koonce Raymond Koonce is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!

GerryE123 wrote:
Hi:

A friend loaned me a pair of adapters to run triode connected 46s in my 45
amp. Here's a photo of the amp (with Arcturus globe 46s):

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...e123/46amp.jpg

snip
Any comments or insights would be appreciated! Thank you.

Gerry



So, where can I get a pair of these adapters? I have some nice NOS 46s
just waiting to go.

Raymond
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tubegarden tubegarden is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!

On Aug 6, 6:56�pm, Raymond Koonce wrote:


So, where can I get a pair of these adapters? �I have some nice NOS 46s
just waiting to go.

Raymond


Hi RATs!

I dunno. I did have a nice old amp that used 46 P-P, but it did not
use any adapters ...

Happy Ears!
Al

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GerryE123 GerryE123 is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!

"Raymond Koonce" wrote in message
. ..

So, where can I get a pair of these adapters? I have some nice NOS 46s
just waiting to go.

Raymond


Hi Raymond:

The 46 adapters that I'm using were made by Kara Chaffee of deHavilland
Electric Amplifier Company. They were made quite awhile ago, before she got
really busy with deHavilland. Given that, it's unlikely she would build
more of them. I'm sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Just as a little tease, here's another photo of my set-up with the adapters
and Arcturus globe 46s:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...e123/force.jpg

They are sounding even better to me than when I originally posted.

Gerry


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GerryE123 GerryE123 is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!

"Raymond Koonce" wrote:

So, where can I get a pair of these adapters? I have some nice NOS 46s
just waiting to go.

Raymond


Hi Raymond:

Here's some more info about the adapter. First, here are some links to a
few photos:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...3/adapter1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...3/adapter2.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...3/adapter3.jpg

It looks like Kara took a five-pin socket and fit it inside a four-pin tube
base. Internally, the second grid of the dual grid 46 is connected to the
first grid for Class A triode operation.

I would think that someone who is handy and knows what they are doing could
do this fairly easily. If you don't want to try it yourself, maybe you
could find someone on the Tube DIY (Audio) Asylum to do it for you:

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/tubediy/bbs.html

Gerry




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Raymond Koonce Raymond Koonce is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!

GerryE123 wrote:
"Raymond Koonce" wrote:

So, where can I get a pair of these adapters? I have some nice NOS 46s
just waiting to go.

Raymond


Hi Raymond:

Here's some more info about the adapter. First, here are some links to a
few photos:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...3/adapter1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...3/adapter2.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...3/adapter3.jpg

It looks like Kara took a five-pin socket and fit it inside a four-pin tube
base. Internally, the second grid of the dual grid 46 is connected to the
first grid for Class A triode operation.

I would think that someone who is handy and knows what they are doing could
do this fairly easily. If you don't want to try it yourself, maybe you
could find someone on the Tube DIY (Audio) Asylum to do it for you:

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/tubediy/bbs.html

Gerry


Gerry,

Thanks for the information. I'll bet I have some dead 4-pin tubes and a
couple of 5-pin sockets lying around. Some epoxy to hold things
together and it should work nicely. I'll give it a try and report back.

Best regards,

Raymond
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GerryE123 GerryE123 is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!

"Raymond Koonce" wrote: in Gerry,

Thanks for the information. I'll bet I have some dead 4-pin tubes and a
couple of 5-pin sockets lying around. Some epoxy to hold things together
and it should work nicely. I'll give it a try and report back.


Hi Raymond:

If you like the 46, you may have to build a dedicated Time Bandit 46 amp!
Good luck and please do report back. Keep in mind that, at least according
to my listening, not all 46s sound the same.

I'm looking for some more GLOBE 46s. Especially a RCA Radiotron and
Arcturus BLUE to pair up with singles that I have. If anyone has any they
want to sell or trade (I have tons of good tubes to trade), please send me
an e-mail. Thanks!

Gerry


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Raymond Koonce Raymond Koonce is offline
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Default The Triode Connected 46!

GerryE123 wrote:
"Raymond Koonce" wrote: in Gerry,

Thanks for the information. I'll bet I have some dead 4-pin tubes and a
couple of 5-pin sockets lying around. Some epoxy to hold things together
and it should work nicely. I'll give it a try and report back.


Hi Raymond:

If you like the 46, you may have to build a dedicated Time Bandit 46 amp!
Good luck and please do report back. Keep in mind that, at least according
to my listening, not all 46s sound the same.

I'm looking for some more GLOBE 46s. Especially a RCA Radiotron and
Arcturus BLUE to pair up with singles that I have. If anyone has any they
want to sell or trade (I have tons of good tubes to trade), please send me
an e-mail. Thanks!

Gerry


Hi Gerry,

Well, I was poking around working on an amp project for my office. It's
playing fine on the breadboard, so I'm working on the chassis layout and
design. While digging in my parts cabinets I happened upon several NOS
five-pin brown plastic sockets and I'm sure I have a couple of dead four
pin rectifiers, so as soon as time permits, I'll give it a try.

I'm looking for another pair of Arcturus 47s (PZs) with blue globes.
They're hard to find.

Best,

Raymond
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