[Joe[_13_]]

I am looking for a dual very clean and pristine preamp with digital
output. ( or two single pres with a good 2 channel a/d converter) These
two pres will be used in place of two preamps on my c24.
From what i can find, the Grace design m201 with the digital option
(about 3K) seems to be a good choice. I have a PT HD2 studio with a 96
I/O and c24. The two clean channels will be used mostly for vocals
(Mojave Audio MA-200 mics) and sometimes for instruments (ukulele and
guitar mostly). I definitely want clean vs colored and want digitalout
.. Any comments on the M201 with digital or reasonable alternatives?

[Scott Dorsey]

Joe wrote:
I am looking for a dual very clean and pristine preamp with digital
output. ( or two single pres with a good 2 channel a/d converter) These
two pres will be used in place of two preamps on my c24.
From what i can find, the Grace design m201 with the digital option
(about 3K) seems to be a good choice. I have a PT HD2 studio with a 96
I/O and c24. The two clean channels will be used mostly for vocals
(Mojave Audio MA-200 mics) and sometimes for instruments (ukulele and
guitar mostly). I definitely want clean vs colored and want digitalout
. Any comments on the M201 with digital or reasonable alternatives?

The Millennia HV-3 with the digital option?

Hmm... does John Hardy have a digital card available? You could always
get a John Hardy and then a decent outboard converter.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Joe[_13_]]

On 12/11/2010 10:33 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
wrote:
I am looking for a dual very clean and pristine preamp with digital
output. ( or two single pres with a good 2 channel a/d converter) These
two pres will be used in place of two preamps on my c24.
From what i can find, the Grace design m201 with the digital option
(about 3K) seems to be a good choice. I have a PT HD2 studio with a 96
I/O and c24. The two clean channels will be used mostly for vocals
(Mojave Audio MA-200 mics) and sometimes for instruments (ukulele and
guitar mostly). I definitely want clean vs colored and want digitalout
. Any comments on the M201 with digital or reasonable alternatives?

The Millennia HV-3 with the digital option?

Hmm... does John Hardy have a digital card available? You could always
get a John Hardy and then a decent outboard converter.
--scott

Well a new development. I didn't realize the m201 doesn't have a HPF
like the m101. based on my past experience, I use the HPF on my c24 pres
all the time because of some drafts I can't get rid of. So I guess I may
need two M101s (if I stay with Grace) and a good A/D (maybe Rosetta) to
get into digital format. I really don't want to go through the c24 pres
line in for these channels and I want to make them as clean as possible.
Guess the plot thickens
Aloha
Joe

[PStamler]

Benchmark 2-channel mic pre + Benchmark A/D.

Peace,
Paul

[Scott Dorsey]

Joe wrote:
Well a new development. I didn't realize the m201 doesn't have a HPF
like the m101. based on my past experience, I use the HPF on my c24 pres
all the time because of some drafts I can't get rid of.

Well, you have two choices. You can do the filtering in the digital domain
after the fact, and keep your levels down so you can accurately record those
drafts without clipping. This eats up your headroom, but really in the
digital world we all have way more headroom than we need anyway.

The second choice is to get an inline HPF filter like one of the Shure
inline filters. They are handy to have around anyway.

So I guess I may
need two M101s (if I stay with Grace) and a good A/D (maybe Rosetta) to
get into digital format. I really don't want to go through the c24 pres
line in for these channels and I want to make them as clean as possible.

I don't think you'll find any filtering on most standard preamps, just on
channel strip units.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I don't think you'll find any filtering on most standard preamps,
just on channel strip units.

The relevance of frequency response to 10 Hz and below in a mic pre is
marginal.

Depending on the physical possibilities left by the design it could be
tempting to tailor the response to the real world via the coupling caps.

--scott

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Scott Dorsey]

Peter Larsen wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

I don't think you'll find any filtering on most standard preamps,
just on channel strip units.

The relevance of frequency response to 10 Hz and below in a mic pre is
marginal.

Sometimes, but not always. For example, I often use B&K measurement mikes
for recording work, and air currents make for substantial low end noise.
Most of it is in the 2-15 Hz region.

I first noticed it at a concert in an 18th century church where the sound
check was fine, but when they lit the candles all over the room I started
seeing the meters bouncing back and forth with little sound in the room.

Depending on the physical possibilities left by the design it could be
tempting to tailor the response to the real world via the coupling caps.

That was the first thing I did with the B&K mikes, but of course if you
do that on just one stage you have only a 6 dB/octave drop and it would
be nice to have something sharper.

I'm not sure what's in the Shure inline filters but it may well just be
a couple caps.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Peter Larsen wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I don't think you'll find any filtering on most standard preamps,
just on channel strip units.

The relevance of frequency response to 10 Hz and below in a mic pre
is marginal.

Sometimes, but not always. For example, I often use B&K measurement
mikes for recording work, and air currents make for substantial low
end noise. Most of it is in the 2-15 Hz region.

Ah, nuances of language that get lost in translation, mea culpa, I should
not have omitted the word linear.

I first noticed it at a concert in an 18th century church where the
sound check was fine, but when they lit the candles all over the room
I started seeing the meters bouncing back and forth with little sound
in the room.

Lots of 10 Hz something going on in large rooms, at least in a city, dunno
about the countryside.

Depending on the physical possibilities left by the design it could
be tempting to tailor the response to the real world via the
coupling caps.

That was the first thing I did with the B&K mikes, but of course if
you do that on just one stage you have only a 6 dB/octave drop and it
would be nice to have something sharper.

Yes, I fancy 4'th order bessel when I high pass filter tracks, seems to me
to make vox sound cleaner than butterworth.

I'm not sure what's in the Shure inline filters but it may well just
be a couple caps.

Once upon a time I put some stackfoil caps in stereo jack plugs for use with
a mixer without any tone controls .... on spot mikes something 120 Hz first
order can be quite useful.

--scott

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Joe[_13_]]

On 12/12/2010 3:23 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
wrote:
Well a new development. I didn't realize the m201 doesn't have a HPF
like the m101. based on my past experience, I use the HPF on my c24 pres
all the time because of some drafts I can't get rid of.

Well, you have two choices. You can do the filtering in the digital domain
after the fact, and keep your levels down so you can accurately record those
drafts without clipping. This eats up your headroom, but really in the
digital world we all have way more headroom than we need anyway.

The second choice is to get an inline HPF filter like one of the Shure
inline filters. They are handy to have around anyway.

So I guess I may
need two M101s (if I stay with Grace) and a good A/D (maybe Rosetta) to
get into digital format. I really don't want to go through the c24 pres
line in for these channels and I want to make them as clean as possible.

I don't think you'll find any filtering on most standard preamps, just on
channel strip units.
--scott

Aloha
Well the grace M101 (single channel version of the M201 I was looking
at) does have a HPF . Thats why I thought of two model M101s. I don't
know why Grace eliminated the filter in the M201. I am still looking at
other pres though so keep the suggestions coming. I am not really
thrilled with the HPF in the digital domain, but like as you mention, we
have plenty of dynamic range.
It looks like I will need an outboard A/D. The Rosetta 200 that I had
thought of really does a bit more than I need, but seems like it is well
reviewed and accepted.
By the way, the Shure in-line filter advertises a cutoff of 100 Hz
(maybe a bit high) and 12db/octave

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Joe wrote:

Well the grace M101 (single channel version of the M201 I was looking
at) does have a HPF . Thats why I thought of two model M101s. I don't
know why Grace eliminated the filter in the M201.

Possibly because of the ms-option that it too my understanding has, though
the logic in so doing is unclear to me in as much as keeping bass out of the
S can be useful and in as much as different mics are likely to have
different response anyway.

I am still looking
at other pres though so keep the suggestions coming. I am not really
thrilled with the HPF in the digital domain, but like as you mention,
we have plenty of dynamic range.
It looks like I will need an outboard A/D. The Rosetta 200 that I had
thought of really does a bit more than I need, but seems like it is
well reviewed and accepted.
By the way, the Shure in-line filter advertises a cutoff of 100 Hz
(maybe a bit high) and 12db/octave

Listen to it, do you loose clarity through it?

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Bill Graham]

Peter Larsen wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

Peter Larsen wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I don't think you'll find any filtering on most standard preamps,
just on channel strip units.

The relevance of frequency response to 10 Hz and below in a mic pre
is marginal.

Sometimes, but not always. For example, I often use B&K measurement
mikes for recording work, and air currents make for substantial low
end noise. Most of it is in the 2-15 Hz region.

Ah, nuances of language that get lost in translation, mea culpa, I
should not have omitted the word linear.

I first noticed it at a concert in an 18th century church where the
sound check was fine, but when they lit the candles all over the room
I started seeing the meters bouncing back and forth with little sound
in the room.

Lots of 10 Hz something going on in large rooms, at least in a city,
dunno about the countryside.

Depending on the physical possibilities left by the design it could
be tempting to tailor the response to the real world via the
coupling caps.

That was the first thing I did with the B&K mikes, but of course if
you do that on just one stage you have only a 6 dB/octave drop and it
would be nice to have something sharper.

Yes, I fancy 4'th order bessel when I high pass filter tracks, seems
to me to make vox sound cleaner than butterworth.

I'm not sure what's in the Shure inline filters but it may well just
be a couple caps.

Once upon a time I put some stackfoil caps in stereo jack plugs for
use with a mixer without any tone controls .... on spot mikes
something 120 Hz first order can be quite useful.

I chop off anything below 100 Hz to keep out the "clunk" when my valves come
back up anyway......:^)

[Scott Dorsey]

Joe wrote:
Aloha

howzit!

Well the grace M101 (single channel version of the M201 I was looking
at) does have a HPF . Thats why I thought of two model M101s. I don't
know why Grace eliminated the filter in the M201. I am still looking at
other pres though so keep the suggestions coming. I am not really
thrilled with the HPF in the digital domain, but like as you mention, we
have plenty of dynamic range.

Well, what's wrong with two M101s in that case? Are you short on rack
space?

It looks like I will need an outboard A/D. The Rosetta 200 that I had
thought of really does a bit more than I need, but seems like it is well
reviewed and accepted.

It's not bad. Also check out the Benchmark.
I still really like the original Prism AD-124 actually... it's old and it
doesn't get a lot of respect but I still like the way the thing sounds.
The newer Prism and Weiss stuff is good also but more expensive.

By the way, the Shure in-line filter advertises a cutoff of 100 Hz
(maybe a bit high) and 12db/octave

Get one of the Shure filters anyway, they are handy to have around.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."