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Best TUBE HEADPHONE AMP
Hello, please help, i am going mad, i can't decide what to buy exactly.
There seems to be many choices and lots of hype regarding certain amps. I am interested in finding the best sound quality especially for acoustic jazz music. I am currently using a Luxman LX-33 integrated amp which I like a lot but am looking to upgrade. I am confused about the elusiveness of information regarding tube headphone amps and would like it if someone could please recommend the best tube headphone amp for 300 ohm Sennheiser HD650's. Thanks. Obviously looking for a warm, detailed sound with good bandwith. |
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#2
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On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:12:53 GMT, "Asterix"
wrote: Hello, please help, i am going mad, Then you're in the right place. i can't decide what to buy exactly. Then you're in the right place. Theoretically. There seems to be many choices and lots of hype regarding certain amps. Hype is indeed what most of it is. I am interested in finding the best sound quality especially for acoustic jazz music. I am currently using a Luxman LX-33 integrated amp which I like a lot but am looking to upgrade. Why, if you like it a lot? What is missing? I am confused about the elusiveness of information regarding tube headphone amps and would like it if someone could please recommend the best tube headphone amp for 300 ohm Sennheiser HD650's. This is a big ask. How many people have sampled a number of tube headphone amps while using Senn 650s? I've only used the M.F. X Can v2 using Senn HD 580 and was not impressed. Personally at the time I much preferred my Marantz PM4000 amp. Now I use a vintage Luxman L200 with Senn 595 and find it a very satisfying combination (on classical). Frankly I'm not convinced of the necessity of headphone amps, so I ask again: why are you dissatisfied with your Luxman LX-33? What specific areas do you hope to improve? Thanks. Obviously looking for a warm, detailed sound with good bandwith. Join the club. |
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#3
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#4
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"paul packer" wrote in message ... On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:12:53 GMT, "Asterix" wrote: Frankly I'm not convinced of the necessity of headphone amps, **Contact me off-group. I may have something which will alter your perceptions. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
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#5
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"Asterix" wrote There seems to be many choices and lots of hype regarding certain amps. I am interested in finding the best sound quality especially for acoustic jazz music. I am currently using a Luxman LX-33 integrated amp which I like a lot but am looking to upgrade. I am confused about the elusiveness of information regarding tube headphone amps and would like it if someone could please recommend the best tube headphone amp for 300 ohm Sennheiser HD650's. Thanks. Obviously looking for a warm, detailed sound with good bandwith. A few design choices in tube headphone amps: All tube SET design with OTL/transformer coupled out puts. $400. http://www.divertech.com/mgheaddt.html Dual Triode Vacuum Tube output stage. $1,600. http://www.stax.co.jp/ENG/SRM006tE.html V20, push-pull class A circuit with triode, 26 - 12AX7 tubes and four 12AU7 tubes. $5,500. http://www.ear-yoshino.com |
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#6
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What specific areas do you hope to improve?
Not really sure, since I haven't demo'd a lot of amps side by side. At first I decided to get a portable solid-state amp to use with my pc and in my bedroom. But as I read and thought more about it I decided I really wanted to go with tubes (for sonic reasons) and don't care if it's portable or not. This is because I do like my Luxman a lot but I assume that I would get better or similarly good results with a decent new tube headphone amp. Asterix |
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#7
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headphone
headwize head-fi I am familiar with these sites, especially been reading a lot at head-fi, unfortunately you have to pay to post, but I may donate so I can post about this hi-fi decision. Why, if you like it a lot? What is missing? I like it just fine, but I would prefer it if the sound was a little more mellow and less forward in the highs because sometimes sounds can be fatigueing (this is with the new HD650's.) This may be a result of my source (cheap Panasonic cd/dvd changer.) More details and frequency bandwith would be nice to give me 'more' of the music, but this might mean I will have to upgrade my source too. Maybe a Rega Planet since it "sounds like vinyl"? I'll add that I used to have a Luxman integrated amp (can't remember the model) from the late 1970s'/early 1980's and the headphone output sounded great with my Grado headphones! That's good to hear and I must agree that to my ears without comparison I think the Luxman has a very warm, balanced, and detailed sound overall. I mainly looking to improve upon it's good qualities, if that's possible without overspending. If you decide to get a headphone amp, make sure to get return privileges. You may find it's no better than your Luxman. Definately. |
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#8
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On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:10:09 GMT, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote: Frankly I'm not convinced of the necessity of headphone amps, **Contact me off-group. I may have something which will alter your perceptions. LSD? Better email me, Trevor. I'm getting SPAMBLOCKED. --Paul. |
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#9
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"Asterix" wrote in message news:FSqdd.10022$232.5563@trnddc09... Hello, please help, i am going mad, i can't decide what to buy exactly. There seems to be many choices and lots of hype regarding certain amps. I am interested in finding the best sound quality especially for acoustic jazz music. I am currently using a Luxman LX-33 integrated amp which I like a lot but am looking to upgrade. I am confused about the elusiveness of information regarding tube headphone amps and would like it if someone could please recommend the best tube headphone amp for 300 ohm Sennheiser HD650's. Thanks. Obviously looking for a warm, detailed sound with good bandwith. Frankly, headphone amps are overrated. You really don't need a lot to drive headphones. Having said that, I have Senn 600s and Musical Fidelity XCans (tube) and HeadRoom Little. The MF goes louder (but I couldn't possibly use it all). HR Little has a nice processor switch that I find has a subtle effect, but a less fatiguing sound over time. Without the processor, I can't really tell a lot of difference between them except for power output. |
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#10
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On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:04:20 GMT, "Asterix"
wrote: don't most cd players sound similar? I have heard most recently made cd players sound about the same. Is this true? It is if your name is Howard or Arnold. But seriously, no. You wouldn't really expect a $100 player to sound the same as a $1500 one would you? But you don't even have to look between price ranges. I can remember years ago temporarily swapping my Nad CD player for my brother's Harmon Kardon--both budget machines. The difference was far greater than that between any amps I've heard. The NAD was very bright, the Harmon quite dull. Neither was brilliant in any other regard, but on balance grounds alone both would have to be carefully matched with other equipment. So no, don't believe all CD players sound the same. |
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#11
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All tube SET design with OTL/transformer coupled out
puts. $400. http://www.divertech.com/mgheaddt.html Hi, Can you comment, at least subjectively, on an amp like this might sound? Thanks. Asterix |
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#12
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"Asterix" wrote All tube SET design with OTL/transformer coupled out puts. $400. http://www.divertech.com/mgheaddt.html Can you comment, at least subjectively, on an amp like this might sound? Sorry. Frankly, I’ve become disenchanted with the limitations of dynamic headphones. I’m uncertain if upgrading the electronics will result in an appreciable sound improvement or just more lipstick on a pig. |
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#13
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On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:46:37 -0400, "Powell"
wrote: Sorry. Frankly, I’ve become disenchanted with the limitations of dynamic headphones. I’m uncertain if upgrading the electronics will result in an appreciable sound improvement or just more lipstick on a pig. There'll be no running Miss Piggy down while I'm around. Perhaps you'd like to tell us what the limitations of dynamic headphones are. |
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#14
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"paul packer" wrote in message
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:04:20 GMT, "Asterix" wrote: don't most cd players sound similar? I have heard most recently made cd players sound about the same. Is this true? It is if your name is Howard or Arnold. But seriously, no. You wouldn't really expect a $100 player to sound the same as a $1500 one would you? Is this a debating trade approach to sound quality or what? But you don't even have to look between price ranges. I can remember years ago temporarily swapping my Nad CD player for my brother's Harmon Kardon--both budget machines. The difference was far greater than that between any amps I've heard. Absence of level-matched, time-synched, bias-controlled listening tests noted. The NAD was very bright, the Harmon quite dull. Neither was brilliant in any other regard, but on balance grounds alone both would have to be carefully matched with other equipment. So no, don't believe all CD players sound the same. Well of course they don't sound the same to most people, because almost nobody listens to them level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled. |
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#15
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"jeffc" wrote in message r.com...
"Asterix" wrote in message news:FSqdd.10022$232.5563@trnddc09... Hello, please help, i am going mad, i can't decide what to buy exactly. There seems to be many choices and lots of hype regarding certain amps. I am interested in finding the best sound quality especially for acoustic jazz music. I am currently using a Luxman LX-33 integrated amp which I like a lot but am looking to upgrade. I am confused about the elusiveness of information regarding tube headphone amps and would like it if someone could please recommend the best tube headphone amp for 300 ohm Sennheiser HD650's. Thanks. Obviously looking for a warm, detailed sound with good bandwith. Frankly, headphone amps are overrated. Agree, although I haven't tried the MF or most headphone amps; dealers rarely stock any headphone amps where I live. But you're right, driving a pair of headphones isn't rocket science. I used to do a lot of headphone listening, and here's the attraction of headphone amps, IMHO: * Small * Really kinda cool to have and look at * Makes it easy to put an equalizer or other processor between CD player and amp, like so: CD player - Processor - Headphone amp - Headphones Other than the above, unless your other gear has headphone outputs that sound bad, I can't see much reason to have a headphone amp. I've owned several headphone amps and they are fun to own and use, but soundwise I can live without 'em. It's also possible to build your own headphone amp, like the models designed by Chu Moy and others. If you search the web and/or eBay.com for CMOY, you'll find examples; you can also search for other headphone amps. Some people have reworked the Chu Moy design quite a bit, converting it from battery power to being powered by a wall socket, and other tweaks and changes. I haven't looked lately, but there are usually a lot of CMOY and other headphone amps on eBay, so you could look there for examples. You really don't need a lot to drive headphones. Exactly. A lot of the fancy-shmancy "audiophile" headphone amps are sold with a lot of hype that really doesn't make much sense, especially given how simple a headphone amp really is. Having said that, I have Senn 600s and Musical Fidelity XCans (tube) and HeadRoom Little. The MF goes louder (but I couldn't possibly use it all). HR Little has a nice processor switch that I find has a subtle effect, but a less fatiguing sound over time. Without the processor, I can't really tell a lot of difference between them except for power output. I really didn't care for the processor, but obviously YMMV. Glad it worked well for you. For me, it was a gimmick, but I can understand why a small company like Headroom would want to include something that their competitors don't. |
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#16
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"Powell" wrote in message ...
"Asterix" wrote (snip) Dual Triode Vacuum Tube output stage. $1,600. http://www.stax.co.jp/ENG/SRM006tE.html Most RAO readers will already know this, but in case some don't, the above is designed only for particular Stax electrostatic headphones ("earspeakers" in Stax-speak). Won't work for the original poster's Sennheisers. BTW, I used to own some Stax electret headphones, and they sounded good, but I think dynamic headphones are so good now and can be used with so many kinds of audio gear that dynamic headphones make more sense for most consumers, assuming the other hardware has decent headphone outputs. There are usually a few Stax models on eBay.com, BTW. I think a lot of people buy headphones and find they lose interest in it. I've noticed that used Stax and other fancy headphones are often in excellent condition. I'd love to try newer Stax models, but no dealers here and the prices are awfully high too. (snip) |
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#17
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Well, for better or for worse, I took the plunge and ordered an Antique
Sound Labs MG HEAD DT/OTL MK III. I could use a second amp anywhere (for my pc mainly) because of the electrical ground loop (or whatever) issues that I get when I plug my Luxman into my PC. Apparently some of the salespeople seemed to think that this amp would make a 'night and day' difference of the Luxman headphone out. I don't know of this is true, but I can return it if I'm dissatisfied so not much to lose here. I am going to probably be getting a cd player as well, (any suggestions for budget stuff?) Thanks. |
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#18
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"N" wrote There are usually a few Stax models on eBay.com, Yes, I was just there looking myself. . BTW. I think a lot of people buy headphones and find they lose interest in it. Bingo! I've noticed that used Stax and other fancy headphones are often in excellent condition. Agreed. But there are several models and variations in the Stax lineup, over the years, making it difficult to know where each offering fits into the high end scale, assuming there is an appreciable variation . I'd love to try newer Stax models, but no dealers here and the prices are awfully high too. Agreed. But there are few dealers because of low demand, not higher cost. Dealers like high cost, that's good for business (profit margin)  . |
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#19
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"paul packer" wrote Sorry. Frankly, I’ve become disenchanted with the limitations of dynamic headphones. I’m uncertain if upgrading the electronics will result in an appreciable sound improvement or just more lipstick on a pig. There'll be no running Miss Piggy down while I'm around. That would be Howard in a dress ?Perhaps you'd like to tell us what the limitations of dynamic headphones are. Just a guess, but I would suspect it’s a material science “limitation.” Over the last 30 years, at least, the traducers and other critical components used in the manufacture of headphones have varied from organic to inorganic. There seems to be little learned and no direction. Headphones in general use today (dynamic) are only incrementally better from those of the past. Have you heard headphones that sounded better, overall, than your own main speakers? I think most would say no. I suspect as an industry (headphones) is cottage sized in comparison to other components technologies in a Hi-Fi system. And as a science, far more research money has been spent on hearing aids. |
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On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:10:13 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: The NAD was very bright, the Harmon quite dull. Neither was brilliant in any other regard, but on balance grounds alone both would have to be carefully matched with other equipment. So no, don't believe all CD players sound the same. Well of course they don't sound the same to most people, because almost nobody listens to them level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled. Have you got nuts and bolts for ears, Arnie? I'll grant you that much of the described differences between components is hyperbole, but you surely can't continue to pretend that all components sound the same so long as they're level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled. You could do all that to these two components till the cows came home and no way would they ever sound even vaguely similar. One had a bright balance ("ouch!"), one a dull balance ("hey, where's the highs?"). Totally different under any and all circumstances. Follow? |
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#21
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On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:11:05 -0400, "Powell"
wrote: Have you heard headphones that sounded better, overall, than your own main speakers? Yep, my current ones. Different but better. Why? Because I can afford quite good headphones but only mediocre speakers, and therein lies one of the reasons to buy headphones: fiscally they may be your only hope for high end audio. I think most would say no. I think most would say yes. I suspect as an industry (headphones) is cottage sized in comparison to other components technologies in a Hi-Fi system. And as a science, far more research money has been spent on hearing aids. Well, true overall, but I'm sure companies like Sennheiser, Stax, Beyer and AKG are trying hard, even if their comparative turnover is not breathtaking. |
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#23
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"N" wrote in message om... I'd first consider a CD player upgrade if you think the "fatiguing" quality is coming from the source (which it very well might be.) Then I'd consider the HeadRoom Little, as the processor will further reduce fatiguing sound IMO. I had the Little Headroom and while overall I liked it, I disliked the processors. YMMV. If you want to really get some different sound quality, rather than buying a tube amp and hoping that it will sound different than your Luxman (if both are designed correctly and working properly, they should both be accurate and sound identical), you could try things that will really alter the sound in ways that you might like. For example, you could add an equalizer, BBE processor, use the tone controls on your Luxman, or try anything else that's designed to change the sound in ways your ear may find pleasing. You mean like the HeadRoom processor? Yet another thought is that maybe your headphones just don't sound good to you and you could consider changing to another model. I've owned a lot of headphones, and like any kind of loudspeaker, different models do sound different from each other. Years ago, I tried either the 580 or 600 and it didn't suit me at all, despite many glowing reviews; just didn't sound good to me. Kind of distant. I like some other Sennheiser models (I own several; some other brands too) and generally speaking, Sennheiser (IMHO; YMMV) makes the most comfortable models, but overall I prefer the sound of my $95 Grado SR80's. The Grados (I've owned several models) are the headphones that most sound like fine loudspeakers in a decent room. I think the SR60 is one of the most overrated "audiophile" "bargains" of all time, and the SR80 isn't far behind. Going all the way to the top of the line doesn't help much - if anything, the sound gets more tubby and bloated in the bass. But I do agree with you on one thing - buy what you like. |
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#24
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On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 04:32:52 GMT, "jeffc" wrote:
I think the SR60 is one of the most overrated "audiophile" "bargains" of all time, and the SR80 isn't far behind. Going all the way to the top of the line doesn't help much - if anything, the sound gets more tubby and bloated in the bass. But I do agree with you on one thing - buy what you like. Tend to agree with this. I had TWO SR80s. I bought one, didn't like it. sold it, then read so much more praise of it everywhere that I decided I needed to hear it again with my (by then) different equipment. Still didn't like it, in fact liked it less. Plus quite uncomfortable. What's all the fuss? |
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#25
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"jeffc" wrote in message ...
"N" wrote in message om... I'd first consider a CD player upgrade if you think the "fatiguing" quality is coming from the source (which it very well might be.) Then I'd consider the HeadRoom Little, as the processor will further reduce fatiguing sound IMO. I had the Little Headroom and while overall I liked it, I disliked the processors. YMMV. If you want to really get some different sound quality, rather than buying a tube amp and hoping that it will sound different than your Luxman (if both are designed correctly and working properly, they should both be accurate and sound identical), you could try things that will really alter the sound in ways that you might like. For example, you could add an equalizer, BBE processor, use the tone controls on your Luxman, or try anything else that's designed to change the sound in ways your ear may find pleasing. You mean like the HeadRoom processor? That's another example. Yet another thought is that maybe your headphones just don't sound good to you and you could consider changing to another model. I've owned a lot of headphones, and like any kind of loudspeaker, different models do sound different from each other. Years ago, I tried either the 580 or 600 and it didn't suit me at all, despite many glowing reviews; just didn't sound good to me. Kind of distant. I like some other Sennheiser models (I own several; some other brands too) and generally speaking, Sennheiser (IMHO; YMMV) makes the most comfortable models, but overall I prefer the sound of my $95 Grado SR80's. The Grados (I've owned several models) are the headphones that most sound like fine loudspeakers in a decent room. I think the SR60 is one of the most overrated "audiophile" "bargains" of all time, and the SR80 isn't far behind. Going all the way to the top of the line doesn't help much - if anything, the sound gets more tubby and bloated in the bass. I have the SR40 also and used to have the SR200 (bought used; discontinued). I didn't feel that the SR200 sounded any better than the SR80, just different. I liked the SR80 slightly better than the SR60, but can't honestly say that I'd reliably be able to hear a difference. Given that all the Grados above the SR40 have the same basic design, I've always been suspicious that the more expensive models might not be much different. But they're too pricey for me, so I haven't tried 'em and don't really know. The biggest virtue of the Grados (IMHO, YMMV, etc.) is that they sound like speakers in a room, not like typical headphones where I'm more aware I'm wearing headphones. But I do agree with you on one thing - buy what you like. Exactly. As for the Grados, I actually use my old Sennheisers (discontinued) because they're the most comfortable. They're are from a series of discontinued Sennheiser headphones that all had the same ergonomics and design. I've thought about getting some Sennheiser headphones and putting in Grado drivers, just for kicks. As for personal taste, I suggest that when shopping for headphones, try 'em on first with no music playing. Even if they sound great, if the fit is bad, they won't get used. Been there, done that! |
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#26
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#27
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...
"paul packer" wrote in message On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:04:20 GMT, "Asterix" wrote: (snip) But seriously, no. You wouldn't really expect a $100 player to sound the same as a $1500 one would you? The sound of a $1500 player would include the sound of me going "ouch!" when I looked at the price tag. Is this a debating trade approach to sound quality or what? So you're saying we shouldn't use our expectations to judge CD players? ;-) But you don't even have to look between price ranges. I can remember years ago temporarily swapping my Nad CD player for my brother's Harmon Kardon--both budget machines. The difference was far greater than that between any amps I've heard. Absence of level-matched, time-synched, bias-controlled listening tests noted. The NAD was very bright, the Harmon quite dull. Neither was brilliant in any other regard, but on balance grounds alone both would have to be carefully matched with other equipment. So no, don't believe all CD players sound the same. Well of course they don't sound the same to most people, because almost nobody listens to them level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled. I'll add that with typical home receivers, preamps, or integrated amps, it probably would have been pretty easy to connect both players and play identical CDs simultaneously, then switch between the players with one switch. While that wouldn't be an ideal test, at least both players could be heard at close to the same time, so differences should be more obvious. Of course, it's possible that something's wrong with the NAD and/or the HK and they really would sound very different. But I agree there are better ways to test, although to the home consumer they may not be worthwhile. |
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#28
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#29
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#30
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"N" wrote in message om... The biggest virtue of the Grados (IMHO, YMMV, etc.) is that they sound like speakers in a room, not like typical headphones where I'm more aware I'm wearing headphones. Well, they sound like the speakers you're used to listening to, or like. As for personal taste, I suggest that when shopping for headphones, try 'em on first with no music playing. Even if they sound great, if the fit is bad, they won't get used. Been there, done that! And not just for a couple minutes, but leave them on for about 30. Hard to do, I know. |
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#31
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"N" wrote in message om... As for headphones and comfort, over time I found that either I got used to the Grados or they got used to me. (BTW, the web holds some tweaks to alter/improve the comfort, but I haven't tried those mod.) But the most comfy Sennheisers are definitely more comfy than the Grados. And better ergonomics too on Sennheisers, like no clunky, thick cord on both earpieces, as on the Grado SR60 and above models. Well maybe you should try the AKG K240 or similar. Sound similar to Grado, but WAY more comfortable. |
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#32
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"paul packer" wrote in message
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:10:13 -0400, "Arny Krueger" wrote: The NAD was very bright, the Harmon quite dull. Neither was brilliant in any other regard, but on balance grounds alone both would have to be carefully matched with other equipment. So no, don't believe all CD players sound the same. Well of course they don't sound the same to most people, because almost nobody listens to them level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled. Have you got nuts and bolts for ears, Arnie? Just as surely as you have zero intrapersonal skills, Paul. I'll grant you that much of the described differences between components is hyperbole, but you surely can't continue to pretend that all components sound the same so long as they're level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled. I didn't say that. Let me know when you can come up with a more congent interpretation of what I actually said. You could do all that to these two components till the cows came home and no way would they ever sound even vaguely similar. Really? How many level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled listening tests have you ever done. Paul? One had a bright balance ("ouch!"), one a dull balance ("hey, where's the highs?"). Totally different under any and all circumstances. Follow? Follow what that you've said that has any credibility? Oh, I get it. You were trying to increase your credibility with me by calling me a robot to my face. Interesting approach! |
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#33
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In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote: "paul packer" wrote in message On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:10:13 -0400, "Arny Krueger" wrote: The NAD was very bright, the Harmon quite dull. Neither was brilliant in any other regard, but on balance grounds alone both would have to be carefully matched with other equipment. So no, don't believe all CD players sound the same. Well of course they don't sound the same to most people, because almost nobody listens to them level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled. Have you got nuts and bolts for ears, Arnie? Just as surely as you have zero intrapersonal skills, Paul. I'll grant you that much of the described differences between components is hyperbole, but you surely can't continue to pretend that all components sound the same so long as they're level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled. I didn't say that. Let me know when you can come up with a more congent interpretation of what I actually said. You could do all that to these two components till the cows came home and no way would they ever sound even vaguely similar. Really? How many level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled listening tests have you ever done. Paul? One had a bright balance ("ouch!"), one a dull balance ("hey, where's the highs?"). Totally different under any and all circumstances. Follow? Follow what that you've said that has any credibility? Oh, I get it. You were trying to increase your credibility with me by calling me a robot to my face. Interesting approach! Go fight some country instead of infecting this newsgroup with hate ... We all have different tastes not to mention focus in what we hear - So there. -- Joakim Wendel Remove obvious mail JUNK block for mail reply. My homepage : http://violinist.nu |
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#34
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"George M. Middius" wrote in message ... ****-for-Brains glumped: Have you got nuts and bolts for ears, Arnie? Just as surely as you have zero intrapersonal skills, Paul. As usual, the Krooborg klumsily koins a phoney word to compensate for its fractured "thought" processes. If "intrapersonal" were a word, what would it mean? Here are some guesses: (a) realistic vis-a-vis Arnii Kroofeces (b) able to read and write at a seventh-grade level (c) given to figures of speech and/or tropes in general (d) smarter than your average 'borg (e) capable of purchasing audio equipment without having a breakdown Poor Krooger. The whole language thing is such a mystery to him. (f) incessantly conversing with oneself. |
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#35
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"Powell" wrote in message ...
"N" wrote There are usually a few Stax models on eBay.com, Yes, I was just there looking myself. . I used to have Stax electrets. Bought used, tried for awhile, then never used that much because they needed to be powered by an integrated amp or receiver, and mostly I used a Discman-type player with headphones, so the Stax electrets didn't meet my needs. Can't quite remember the model. The Stax electrostatics have their own amp, but the price is high, even for used models, and I don't listen to headphones much lately. I've noticed that used Stax and other fancy headphones are often in excellent condition. Agreed. But there are several models and variations in the Stax lineup, over the years, making it difficult to know where each offering fits into the high end scale, assuming there is an appreciable variation . Given that Stax seems to have two basic designs, electret and electrostatic, and electret is a type of electrostatic, I don't know if there is an appreciable difference in sound. And no dealers near me that now carry Stax, so the only way I could hear before I buy would be to find a dealer and do some traveling. And I'm not sure where to go, given that when I go to: http://www.stax.co.jp/ENG/Overseas.h...r-Americ-40173 I get this message: http://www.yamasinc.com/Stax_Dealers.htm I could contact the above, and for all I know there many be many Stax retailers in the US. I might even have local dealers that I've somehow overlooked. I'd love to try newer Stax models, but no dealers here and the prices are awfully high too. Agreed. But there are few dealers because of low demand, not higher cost. I see your point, but with no Stax models even in the local high-end dealers that have customers who could afford Stax, there's no way for there to be much demand. If there were Stax models there I could try and they really sounded better than the better recent dynamic headphones, then customers could want and buy Stax. Dealers like high cost, that's good for business (profit margin) .Agree. I'd like to see the dealers carry Stax and give consumers more of a choice. Stax is by far the biggest name in electret and electrostatic headphones ("earspeakers" in Stax-speak). And the few retailers who do offer headphones that would appeal to audiophiles carry few headphones and don't display them well, if at all. For example, the one local retailer who carries Sennheiser models that appeal to audiophiles keeps models like the HD600 in a drawer that's in the showroom, but unmarked, and the dealer carries no other brands. (I've only seen those Sennheisers there because the drawer happened to be open once when I happened to be at the store.) A few local high-end dealers carry a few Grados, and nothing else. The most Stax headphones I've ever seen IRL are the occasional set in the trade-in area of a local high-end dealer. Maybe a few years ago, the Headroom folks were doing a traveling headphone show. If I was going to get more interested in headphones again, trying to catch that would probably be my best bet. Speaking of headphones, here's an interesting-looking dealer for Stax and others. I think this is a US companies that sells Japanese gear to US consumers: http://www.audiocubes.com/index.php?cPath=23_36 And here are some interesting-looking headphone amps, some I'd never seen anywhere else, including a $1,349 Luxman: http://www.audiocubes.com/index.php?...8 761d4977c5b |
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On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:44:39 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: "paul packer" wrote in message On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:10:13 -0400, "Arny Krueger" wrote: The NAD was very bright, the Harmon quite dull. Neither was brilliant in any other regard, but on balance grounds alone both would have to be carefully matched with other equipment. So no, don't believe all CD players sound the same. Well of course they don't sound the same to most people, because almost nobody listens to them level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled. Have you got nuts and bolts for ears, Arnie? Just as surely as you have zero intrapersonal skills, Paul. I'm worried about yours, Arnie. That was meant jocularly. I'll grant you that much of the described differences between components is hyperbole, but you surely can't continue to pretend that all components sound the same so long as they're level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled. I didn't say that. Let me know when you can come up with a more congent interpretation of what I actually said. Not always so easy, as G.M.Middius esquire has pointed out innumerable times. You could do all that to these two components till the cows came home and no way would they ever sound even vaguely similar. Really? How many level-matched, time-synched and bias-controlled listening tests have you ever done. Paul? None. And the day I need them to confirm that one CD player is very bright and one very dull will be the day I head off to the audiologist. One had a bright balance ("ouch!"), one a dull balance ("hey, where's the highs?"). Totally different under any and all circumstances. Follow? Follow what that you've said that has any credibility? Oh, I get it. You were trying to increase your credibility with me by calling me a robot to my face. Interesting approach! If my tone seemed condescending I apologise (I may have been reading too many of the aforementioned G.M.Middius esquire posts. A bad habit at any time). Now that the class has settled down and the water bombs have all landed, how about you enlighten us all as to what in fact you meant? |
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"Asterix" wrote in message news:yNUdd.16844$232.12687@trnddc09...
Well, for better or for worse, I took the plunge and ordered an Antique Sound Labs MG HEAD DT/OTL MK III. Cool! I wouldn't go this far, but it would be fun to have the above. Even if you don't keep it for long. I could use a second amp anywhere (for my pc mainly) because of the electrical ground loop (or whatever) issues that I get when I plug my Luxman into my PC. Ground loop problems are usually solved easily and quickly via a little trial and error. Google around and you'll find help. Apparently some of the salespeople seemed to think that this amp would make a 'night and day' difference of the Luxman headphone out. I don't know of this is true, but I can return it if I'm dissatisfied so not much to lose here. Agree. When I had my old Luxman integrated amp, I thought the headphone output sounded great, but the Luxman was awfully large to keep around for headphone use. I kept it under my bed and used to listen with it with headphones while lying in bed at night. Anyway, a headphone amp will take up less space. I am going to probably be getting a cd player as well, (any suggestions for budget stuff?) Thanks. I've never been real interested in pricey CD players. I have an old Sony Discman and an old Pioneer Elite CD player (bought cheap in a pawn shop) that work fine for me. |
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