I have just won an auction for my first Power Amp (NAD 2200 power , 100 wpc, 400w peak) and now I need a pre amp. I am considering buying the Audio Experience Symphonies Tube preamp. I have two questions and one is kind of dumb. Is there any problem sonically or electronically matching a non-tube amp with a tube preamp ? I have a pair of Klipsch KG4s that are very efficient , 93 db, and a tad bright and was hoping that the tube preamp would warm them up a bit. Now the stupid question. Looking at a picture of the preamp http://www.ys-audio.com/ys-audio_eng.htm it only has controls for volume , balance and source. There are no bass or treble controls. Is this common for tube preamps ? Is it assumed that such controls are not needed or are to be provided with an added on equalizer ? Thanks in advance for any help as I am new to tubes and do not plan on upgrading the speakers anytime soon. ( Incidentally I will be using this set up for strictly 2 channel stereo, the occaisional DVD movie in stereo and have previously been driving the Klipschs with a 25 watt AKAI receiver which was kind of sad I know, but you have to start somewhere !!)

just go for it;
if you can- try first,even if you must pull your amp and spks in store where
preamp is.
sensitive spks are hard in a way-every amp sound different.........
did you try your amp directly from CD,mebbe even from CD headphone out?
sometimes those HP outs are surprising .....
later you can build your own tube preamp..... )

--
--
--
.................................................. ........................
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU

"don't use force, "don't use force,
use a larger hammer" use a larger tube
- Choky and IST"
- ZM
.................................................. ...........................

"me" wrote in message
news:_AZXb.29328$gl2.23612@lakeread05...
I have just won an auction for my first Power Amp (NAD 2200 power , 100 wpc,
400w peak) and now I need a pre amp. I am considering buying the Audio
Experience Symphonies Tube preamp. I have two questions and one is kind of
dumb. Is there any problem sonically or electronically matching a non-tube
amp with a tube preamp ? I have a pair of Klipsch KG4s that are very
efficient , 93 db, and a tad bright and was hoping that the tube preamp
would warm them up a bit. Now the stupid question. Looking at a picture of
the preamp http://www.ys-audio.com/ys-audio_eng.htm it only has controls for
volume , balance and source. There are no bass or treble controls. Is this
common for tube preamps ? Is it assumed that such controls are not needed or
are to be provided with an added on equalizer ? Thanks in advance for any
help as I am new to tubes and do not plan on upgrading the speakers anytime
soon. ( Incidentally I will be using this set up for strictly 2 channel
stereo, the occaisional DVD movie in stereo and have previously been driving
the Klipschs with a 25 watt AKAI receiver which was kind of sad I know, but
you have to start somewhere !!)

I am not familiar with Audio Experience, but I can offer some general
observations.

It is common for high-end pre-amps to omit tone controls. The 'purist'
attitude is that you should not alter the music on the way to power amp
and speakers. Also, any additional circuitry for tone controls can only
get in the way and make the results worse. Nothing can be added to make
it better.

Whether or not you agree with this approach is a matter of opinion. Some
great pre-amps include tone controls, many have not.

Most current tube pre-amps have a low output impedence and should have no
problem in front of a SS amp. However, older pre-amps like the Dynaco
PAS-3 had a high output impedence that was no problem when driving a tube
power amp, but could sound wretched with some SS power amps.

If the Audio Experience output impedence is low (a few hundred ohms, or
less), you should be just fine with the NAD amp.

OK,
just got the preamp today and hooked it up after double checking all
the connections and speakers etc. Turned on Preamp first like
instructions said, because the preamp does not have time delay circuit
on output. Then waited about 1 min and turned on my power amp (NAD
2200) waited for the protection light to go off and then ...
HHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMbbzzzz a very low loud persistent hum from both of my
speakers. It does not get louder with gain up and down and is VERY
noticable anywhere in the room within 20 feet of the speakers. I
immediately checked all my connections again and realized that it is
coming from my preamp. Whenever I turn it off with the power amp still
on , the humming persists for about 15 seconds then slowly fades away
completely in about another 5 seconds. Also disconnecting any of the
input to said preamp also kills the noise immediately. I of course
immediately come here and do a search on "humming" and ... Holy ****
!!!! turns out tons of folks are having very similar problems. I must
admit that I really have no knowledge of electronics and cannot
believe that so many people are having so much trouble with their
tubes. Are they always this temperamental ? I was just worried about
them burning out. Any suggestions ? It has a detachable power cable
with 3 prong ending. Is it possible for me to go out and get another
with only 2 prong and see if that fits ? Would that be safe ? I have
read about "cheaters" but wouldn't that make the connection unshielded
and more prone to shorts ? It uses 1 6x4 BlackPlate for power and 3
12ax7a's for the rest.

Seems ludicrous to not include tone controls because of "impurity" yet
permit 60 Hz hum

When you say three prong - I assume you refer to the grounding pin - and you
are considering "cheating" to remove the grounding conductor from the
circuit via a cheater cord. This is not safe as the grounding conductor is
bonded to the metal chassis - and serves to mitigate shock/electrocution.
Your hum is likely not related to ground loop issues with your power system,
assuming your power system is otherwise intact. This might possibly be the
case if your SS amp does not use a grounding conductor - but not likely. The
60 Hz hum is probably emanating from your filament voltage which is likely
AC. In the past, folks have substantially reduced such hum by rectifying
and filtering AC filament supply - but you probably don't want to do this.
You may want to consider a SS preamp and return the tube preamp.


--
JAMES RUGGIERI
"marshall" wrote in message
om...
OK,
just got the preamp today and hooked it up after double checking all
the connections and speakers etc. Turned on Preamp first like
instructions said, because the preamp does not have time delay circuit
on output. Then waited about 1 min and turned on my power amp (NAD
2200) waited for the protection light to go off and then ...
HHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMbbzzzz a very low loud persistent hum from both of my
speakers. It does not get louder with gain up and down and is VERY
noticable anywhere in the room within 20 feet of the speakers. I
immediately checked all my connections again and realized that it is
coming from my preamp. Whenever I turn it off with the power amp still
on , the humming persists for about 15 seconds then slowly fades away
completely in about another 5 seconds. Also disconnecting any of the
input to said preamp also kills the noise immediately. I of course
immediately come here and do a search on "humming" and ... Holy ****
!!!! turns out tons of folks are having very similar problems. I must
admit that I really have no knowledge of electronics and cannot
believe that so many people are having so much trouble with their
tubes. Are they always this temperamental ? I was just worried about
them burning out. Any suggestions ? It has a detachable power cable
with 3 prong ending. Is it possible for me to go out and get another
with only 2 prong and see if that fits ? Would that be safe ? I have
read about "cheaters" but wouldn't that make the connection unshielded
and more prone to shorts ? It uses 1 6x4 BlackPlate for power and 3
12ax7a's for the rest.

Things to check

1. Is there a digital cable box, or a TV connected somewhere in the system? I've
had some awful ground loops between CATV ground, and household ground.

2. If it's from both speakers, it's unlikely that it's a problem with a tube.

3. Try the "cheater" approach - power cords do not need to be shielded. If the
cheater approach works, you at least know the source of the problem. For long
term safety, either an isolation transformer or some other solution will work -
people here will let you know.

4. If you have exhausted all other options, try the preamp into the tape input
of the AKAI, and the "cheater" connection, just to see if it still hums with
that connection.

"James Angelo Ruggieri, P.E." wrote:

Seems ludicrous to not include tone controls because of "impurity" yet
permit 60 Hz hum

When you say three prong - I assume you refer to the grounding pin - and you
are considering "cheating" to remove the grounding conductor from the
circuit via a cheater cord. This is not safe as the grounding conductor is
bonded to the metal chassis - and serves to mitigate shock/electrocution.
Your hum is likely not related to ground loop issues with your power system,
assuming your power system is otherwise intact. This might possibly be the
case if your SS amp does not use a grounding conductor - but not likely. The
60 Hz hum is probably emanating from your filament voltage which is likely
AC. In the past, folks have substantially reduced such hum by rectifying
and filtering AC filament supply - but you probably don't want to do this.
You may want to consider a SS preamp and return the tube preamp.

--
JAMES RUGGIERI
"marshall" wrote in message
om...
OK,
just got the preamp today and hooked it up after double checking all
the connections and speakers etc. Turned on Preamp first like
instructions said, because the preamp does not have time delay circuit
on output. Then waited about 1 min and turned on my power amp (NAD
2200) waited for the protection light to go off and then ...
HHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMbbzzzz a very low loud persistent hum from both of my
speakers. It does not get louder with gain up and down and is VERY
noticable anywhere in the room within 20 feet of the speakers. I
immediately checked all my connections again and realized that it is
coming from my preamp. Whenever I turn it off with the power amp still
on , the humming persists for about 15 seconds then slowly fades away
completely in about another 5 seconds. Also disconnecting any of the
input to said preamp also kills the noise immediately. I of course
immediately come here and do a search on "humming" and ... Holy ****
!!!! turns out tons of folks are having very similar problems. I must
admit that I really have no knowledge of electronics and cannot
believe that so many people are having so much trouble with their
tubes. Are they always this temperamental ? I was just worried about
them burning out. Any suggestions ? It has a detachable power cable
with 3 prong ending. Is it possible for me to go out and get another
with only 2 prong and see if that fits ? Would that be safe ? I have
read about "cheaters" but wouldn't that make the connection unshielded
and more prone to shorts ? It uses 1 6x4 BlackPlate for power and 3
12ax7a's for the rest.