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#1
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
On consecutive days, an abortion foe gunned down and murdered a doctor
well known for performing and advocating late term abortions, while an American convert to Islam gunned down and murdered a soldier that had recently completed boot camp. Some on the left label the murderer of the doctor as a terrorist. And some on the right label the murederer of the army recruit as a terrorist. He actually was charged with 15 counts of terroristic acts, in addition to murder. The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. In both cases, we are told the current evidence is that both murderers acted alone, based on preliminary investigations. the question is whether this is terrorism. Maybe it is. And surely it is bad enough. But it seems to me, in the lack of organization and goup executiion, that these are more akin to murders, but murders based upon hate and/or myopic religious zealotry. But I can see the argument for terrorism, because they are meant to intimidate others. At any rate, as bad as it is, both are less of a danger and threat than the mass murdering terrorists of Al-Queda and its affiliates, which ultimately want to cause exponential harm to us, and are activley persuing the means to do so. We need to keep our focus. |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
In article
, Clyde Slick wrote: On consecutive days, an abortion foe gunned down and murdered a doctor well known for performing and advocating late term abortions, while an American convert to Islam gunned down and murdered a soldier that had recently completed boot camp. Some on the left label the murderer of the doctor as a terrorist. And some on the right label the murederer of the army recruit as a terrorist. He actually was charged with 15 counts of terroristic acts, in addition to murder. The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. In both cases, we are told the current evidence is that both murderers acted alone, based on preliminary investigations. the question is whether this is terrorism. Of course it is. Wiki: Terrorism is a policy or ideology of violence[1] intended to intimidate or cause terror[2] for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies."[1] Maybe it is. And surely it is bad enough. But it seems to me, in the lack of organization and goup executiion, that these are more akin to murders, but murders based upon hate and/or myopic religious zealotry. But I can see the argument for terrorism, because they are meant to intimidate others. At any rate, as bad as it is, both are less of a danger and threat than the mass murdering terrorists of Al-Queda and its affiliates, which ultimately want to cause exponential harm to us, and are activley persuing the means to do so. We need to keep our focus. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
On Jun 1, 10:29*pm, Jenn wrote:
In article , *Clyde Slick wrote: On consecutive days, an abortion foe gunned down and murdered a doctor well known for performing and advocating late term abortions, while an American convert to Islam gunned down and murdered a soldier that had recently completed boot camp. Some on the left label the murderer of the doctor as a terrorist. *And some on the right label the murederer of the army recruit as a terrorist. He actually was charged with 15 counts of terroristic acts, in addition to murder. The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. In both cases, we are told the current evidence is that both murderers acted alone, based on preliminary investigations. the question is whether this is terrorism. Of course it is. Wiki: Terrorism is a policy or ideology of violence[1] intended to intimidate or cause terror[2] for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies."[1] To that I would also add that both cases seem to me to be terroristic acts to also influence *personal* (as opposed to "state bodies") decisions. I think that ex-spouses or ex-partners (for example) who brandish weapons to influence or dissuade someone from (again, for example) dating somebody else should be guilty of making "terroristic threats". In the case of the Army recruit that could dissuade people from joining the military. In the case of the doctor it could dissuade other doctors from performing the procedure. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
On 1 Iun, 23:29, Jenn wrote:
In article , *Clyde Slick wrote: On consecutive days, an abortion foe gunned down and murdered a doctor well known for performing and advocating late term abortions, while an American convert to Islam gunned down and murdered a soldier that had recently completed boot camp. Some on the left label the murderer of the doctor as a terrorist. *And some on the right label the murederer of the army recruit as a terrorist. He actually was charged with 15 counts of terroristic acts, in addition to murder. The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. In both cases, we are told the current evidence is that both murderers acted alone, based on preliminary investigations. the question is whether this is terrorism. Of course it is. Wiki: Terrorism is a policy or ideology of violence[1] intended to intimidate or cause terror[2] for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies."[1] Maybe it is. And surely it is bad enough. But it seems to me, in the lack of organization and goup executiion, that these are more akin to murders, but murders based upon hate and/or myopic religious zealotry. But I can see the argument for terrorism, because they are meant to intimidate others. At any rate, as bad as it is, both are less of a danger and threat than the mass murdering terrorists of Al-Queda and its affiliates, which ultimately want to cause exponential harm to us, and are activley persuing the means to do so. We need to keep our focus.- then the abortionist murder isn't terrorism by that definition. the intimidation uis aimed at doctors foing partial birht abortions. And the soldier murder is not based on intimidating governemtn action, either. |
#5
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the two recent murders
On 2 Iun, 00:14, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
wrote: On Jun 1, 10:29*pm, Jenn wrote: In article , *Clyde Slick wrote: On consecutive days, an abortion foe gunned down and murdered a doctor well known for performing and advocating late term abortions, while an American convert to Islam gunned down and murdered a soldier that had recently completed boot camp. Some on the left label the murderer of the doctor as a terrorist. *And some on the right label the murederer of the army recruit as a terrorist. He actually was charged with 15 counts of terroristic acts, in addition to murder. The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. In both cases, we are told the current evidence is that both murderers acted alone, based on preliminary investigations. the question is whether this is terrorism. Of course it is. Wiki: Terrorism is a policy or ideology of violence[1] intended to intimidate or cause terror[2] for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies."[1] To that I would also add that both cases seem to me to be terroristic acts to also influence *personal* (as opposed to "state bodies") decisions. I think that ex-spouses or ex-partners (for example) who brandish weapons to influence or dissuade someone from (again, for example) dating somebody else should be guilty of making "terroristic threats". I most certainly agree with you there. there are several types of terrorism. Even schoolyard bullying is a type of terrorism. In the case of the Army recruit that could dissuade people from joining the military. In the case of the doctor it could dissuade other doctors from performing the procedure.- Correct. |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
No better illustration of hatethink is available than this
discussion. Both these acts were murders, plain and simple, and the perps should be dealt with with no judicial notice whatever to the ideology or state of mind of the killers, but rather with their acts. In both cases individuals minding their own business were killed by disturbed people and those people should be dealt with. "Hate crime" is a hatethink concept and is dangerous, in fact lethal, to freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of association. It is more dangerous to society than the killings themselves. The killers killed one or two individuals, but promoters of hatethink endanger the whole society. |
#7
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the two recent murders
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#8
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
"Hate crime" is a hatethink concept and is dangerous, in fact lethal, to freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of association. It is more dangerous to society than the killings themselves. The killers killed one or two individuals, but promoters of hatethink endanger the whole society. Who said anything about a hate crime? "The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. " The individual calling itself 'Clyde Slick". Presumably "hatqe" was intended to read 'hate." |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
On 2 Iun, 02:22, Jenn wrote:
In article , wrote: *No better illustration of hatethink is available than this discussion. Both these acts were murders, plain and simple, and the perps should be dealt with with no judicial notice whatever to the ideology or state of mind of the killers, but rather with their acts. In both cases individuals minding their own business were killed by disturbed people and those people should be dealt with. *"Hate crime" is a hatethink concept and is dangerous, in fact lethal, to freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of association. It is more dangerous to society than the killings themselves. The killers killed one or two individuals, but promoters of hatethink endanger the whole society. Who said anything about a hate crime? I did |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
On 2 Iun, 02:28, wrote:
*"Hate crime" is a hatethink concept and is dangerous, in fact lethal, to freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of association.. It is more dangerous to society than the killings themselves. The killers killed one or two individuals, but promoters of hatethink endanger the whole society. Who said anything about a hate crime? "The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. " *The individual calling itself 'Clyde Slick". Presumably "hatqe" was intended to read 'hate." The individual calling himself ixtarb, presumaly ixtarb was intended to read iztarb. |
#11
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the two recent murders
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#12
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
In article
, ScottW2 wrote: On Jun 1, 10:23*pm, wrote: On 1 Iun, 23:29, Jenn wrote: In article , *Clyde Slick wrote: On consecutive days, an abortion foe gunned down and murdered a doctor well known for performing and advocating late term abortions, while an American convert to Islam gunned down and murdered a soldier that had recently completed boot camp. Some on the left label the murderer of the doctor as a terrorist. *And some on the right label the murederer of the army recruit as a terrorist. He actually was charged with 15 counts of terroristic acts, in addition to murder. The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. In both cases, we are told the current evidence is that both murderers acted alone, based on preliminary investigations. the question is whether this is terrorism. Of course it is. Wiki: Terrorism is a policy or ideology of violence[1] intended to intimidate or cause terror[2] for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies."[1] Maybe it is. And surely it is bad enough. But it seems to me, in the lack of organization and goup executiion, that these are more akin to murders, but murders based upon hate and/or myopic religious zealotry. But I can see the argument for terrorism, because they are meant to intimidate others. At any rate, as bad as it is, both are less of a danger and threat than the mass murdering terrorists of Al-Queda and its affiliates, which ultimately want to cause exponential harm to us, and are activley persuing the means to do so. We need to keep our focus.- then the abortionist murder isn't terrorism by that definition. the intimidation uis aimed at doctors foing partial birht abortions. And the soldier murder is not based on intimidating governemtn action, either. I agree. Two issues that generally make these crimes fail to meet the standard of terrorism. 1) Being the acts of individuals it is difficult to describe these acts as being a policy or ideology of violence. You don't think that these creeps had a policy of violence? One person acting alone without influence of others cannot establish a policy or ideology. 2) The purpose, there is no evidence that either crimes purpose was to "exert pressure on decision making state bodies". Knowing criminal purpose is often difficult In the soldier case, the perp said that he did it "because of what they had done to Muslims in the past." and changing the penalty based upon that does little for the victim. It's not about the present victim. IMO, criminal intent factors should stop once accidental action has been ruled out. It just cloggs the courts and serves to the benefit of the lawyers and few else. ScottW |
#13
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the two recent murders
In article
, ScottW2 wrote: On Jun 2, 10:02*am, Jenn wrote: In article , *ScottW2 wrote: On Jun 1, 10:23*pm, wrote: On 1 Iun, 23:29, Jenn wrote: In article , *Clyde Slick wrote: On consecutive days, an abortion foe gunned down and murdered a doctor well known for performing and advocating late term abortions, while an American convert to Islam gunned down and murdered a soldier that had recently completed boot camp. Some on the left label the murderer of the doctor as a terrorist. *And some on the right label the murederer of the army recruit as a terrorist. He actually was charged with 15 counts of terroristic acts, in addition to murder. The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. In both cases, we are told the current evidence is that both murderers acted alone, based on preliminary investigations. the question is whether this is terrorism. Of course it is. Wiki: Terrorism is a policy or ideology of violence[1] intended to intimidate or cause terror[2] for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies."[1] Maybe it is. And surely it is bad enough. But it seems to me, in the lack of organization and goup executiion, that these are more akin to murders, but murders based upon hate and/or myopic religious zealotry. But I can see the argument for terrorism, because they are meant to intimidate others. At any rate, as bad as it is, both are less of a danger and threat than the mass murdering terrorists of Al-Queda and its affiliates, which ultimately want to cause exponential harm to us, and are activley persuing the means to do so. We need to keep our focus.- then the abortionist murder isn't terrorism by that definition. the intimidation uis aimed at doctors foing partial birht abortions. And the soldier murder is not based on intimidating governemtn action, either. *I agree. *Two issues that generally make these crimes fail to meet the standard of terrorism. 1) Being the acts of individuals it is difficult to describe these acts as being a policy or ideology of violence. You don't think that these creeps had a policy of violence? *One person acting alone without influence of others cannot establish a policy or ideology. 2) The purpose, there is no evidence that either crimes purpose was to "exert pressure on decision making state bodies". *Knowing criminal purpose is often difficult In the soldier case, the perp said that he did it "because of what they had done to Muslims in the past." and it comes down to who "they" are? and changing the penalty based upon that does little for the victim. It's not about the present victim. I don't like the implication that some future victims are more worthy of protection or deterrence than others. It's not about "worthiness", thought I know that that's the political argument. |
#14
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the two recent murders
On Jun 2, 11:53*am, ScottW2 wrote:
On Jun 1, 10:23*pm, wrote: On 1 Iun, 23:29, Jenn wrote: In article , *Clyde Slick wrote: On consecutive days, an abortion foe gunned down and murdered a doctor well known for performing and advocating late term abortions, while an American convert to Islam gunned down and murdered a soldier that had recently completed boot camp. Some on the left label the murderer of the doctor as a terrorist. *And some on the right label the murederer of the army recruit as a terrorist. He actually was charged with 15 counts of terroristic acts, in addition to murder. The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. In both cases, we are told the current evidence is that both murderers acted alone, based on preliminary investigations. the question is whether this is terrorism. Of course it is. Wiki: Terrorism is a policy or ideology of violence[1] intended to intimidate or cause terror[2] for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies."[1] Maybe it is. And surely it is bad enough. But it seems to me, in the lack of organization and goup executiion, that these are more akin to murders, but murders based upon hate and/or myopic religious zealotry. But I can see the argument for terrorism, because they are meant to intimidate others.. At any rate, as bad as it is, both are less of a danger and threat than the mass murdering terrorists of Al-Queda and its affiliates, which ultimately want to cause exponential harm to us, and are activley persuing the means to do so. We need to keep our focus.- then the abortionist murder isn't terrorism by that definition. the intimidation uis aimed at doctors foing partial birht abortions. And the soldier murder is not based on intimidating governemtn action, either. *I agree. *Two issues that generally make these crimes fail to meet the standard of terrorism. 1) Being the acts of individuals it is difficult to describe these acts as being a policy or ideology of violence. *One person acting alone without influence of others cannot establish a policy or ideology. Then suicide bombers don't meet that standard either. |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
On 2 Iun, 12:53, ScottW2 wrote:
On Jun 1, 10:23*pm, wrote: On 1 Iun, 23:29, Jenn wrote: In article , *Clyde Slick wrote: On consecutive days, an abortion foe gunned down and murdered a doctor well known for performing and advocating late term abortions, while an American convert to Islam gunned down and murdered a soldier that had recently completed boot camp. Some on the left label the murderer of the doctor as a terrorist. *And some on the right label the murederer of the army recruit as a terrorist. He actually was charged with 15 counts of terroristic acts, in addition to murder. The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. In both cases, we are told the current evidence is that both murderers acted alone, based on preliminary investigations. the question is whether this is terrorism. Of course it is. Wiki: Terrorism is a policy or ideology of violence[1] intended to intimidate or cause terror[2] for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies."[1] Maybe it is. And surely it is bad enough. But it seems to me, in the lack of organization and goup executiion, that these are more akin to murders, but murders based upon hate and/or myopic religious zealotry. But I can see the argument for terrorism, because they are meant to intimidate others.. At any rate, as bad as it is, both are less of a danger and threat than the mass murdering terrorists of Al-Queda and its affiliates, which ultimately want to cause exponential harm to us, and are activley persuing the means to do so. We need to keep our focus.- then the abortionist murder isn't terrorism by that definition. the intimidation uis aimed at doctors foing partial birht abortions. And the soldier murder is not based on intimidating governemtn action, either. *I agree. *Two issues that generally make these crimes fail to meet the standard of terrorism. 1) Being the acts of individuals it is difficult to describe these acts as being a policy or ideology of violence. *One person acting alone without influence of others cannot establish a policy or ideology. 2) The purpose, there is no evidence that either crimes purpose was to "exert pressure on decision making state bodies". *Knowing criminal purpose is often difficult and changing the penalty based upon that does little for the victim. *IMO, criminal intent factors should stop once accidental action has been ruled out. *It just cloggs the courts and serves to the benefit of the lawyers and few else. ScottW- I think that Reid, the shoe bomber, acted alone. |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
On 2 Iun, 13:02, Jenn wrote:
In article , *ScottW2 wrote: On Jun 1, 10:23*pm, wrote: On 1 Iun, 23:29, Jenn wrote: In article , *Clyde Slick wrote: On consecutive days, an abortion foe gunned down and murdered a doctor well known for performing and advocating late term abortions, while an American convert to Islam gunned down and murdered a soldier that had recently completed boot camp. Some on the left label the murderer of the doctor as a terrorist. *And some on the right label the murederer of the army recruit as a terrorist. He actually was charged with 15 counts of terroristic acts, in addition to murder. The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. In both cases, we are told the current evidence is that both murderers acted alone, based on preliminary investigations. the question is whether this is terrorism. Of course it is. Wiki: Terrorism is a policy or ideology of violence[1] intended to intimidate or cause terror[2] for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies."[1] Maybe it is. And surely it is bad enough. But it seems to me, in the lack of organization and goup executiion, that these are more akin to murders, but murders based upon hate and/or myopic religious zealotry. But I can see the argument for terrorism, because they are meant to intimidate others. At any rate, as bad as it is, both are less of a danger and threat than the mass murdering terrorists of Al-Queda and its affiliates, which ultimately want to cause exponential harm to us, and are activley persuing the means to do so. We need to keep our focus.- then the abortionist murder isn't terrorism by that definition. the intimidation uis aimed at doctors foing partial birht abortions. And the soldier murder is not based on intimidating governemtn action, either. *I agree. *Two issues that generally make these crimes fail to meet the standard of terrorism. 1) Being the acts of individuals it is difficult to describe these acts as being a policy or ideology of violence. You don't think that these creeps had a policy of violence? *One person acting alone without influence of others cannot establish a policy or ideology. 2) The purpose, there is no evidence that either crimes purpose was to "exert pressure on decision making state bodies". *Knowing criminal purpose is often difficult In the soldier case, the perp said that he did it "because of what they had done to Muslims in the past." So? Roeder did it because of what the doctor did to fetuses in the past |
#17
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the two recent murders
On 2 Iun, 13:16, ScottW2 wrote:
*I don't like the implication that some future victims are more worthy of protection or deterrence than others. ScottW- But some might be 'less' worthy. Would that include illegals, or children of illegals???? |
#18
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the two recent murders
On Jun 2, 4:31*pm, ScottW2 wrote:
On Jun 2, 1:50*pm, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote: then the abortionist murder isn't terrorism by that definition. the intimidation uis aimed at doctors foing partial birht abortions.. And the soldier murder is not based on intimidating governemtn action, either. *I agree. *Two issues that generally make these crimes fail to meet the standard of terrorism. 1) Being the acts of individuals it is difficult to describe these acts as being a policy or ideology of violence. *One person acting alone without influence of others cannot establish a policy or ideology. Then suicide bombers don't meet that standard either. *You think suicide bombers are acting alone? *I don't. Are you sure that these two were acting alone? I'm not. |
#19
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the two recent murders
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#20
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the two recent murders
In article
, ScottW2 wrote: On Jun 2, 1:01*pm, Jenn wrote: In article , *ScottW2 wrote: On Jun 2, 10:02*am, Jenn wrote: In article , *ScottW2 wrote: On Jun 1, 10:23*pm, wrote: On 1 Iun, 23:29, Jenn wrote: In article , *Clyde Slick wrote: On consecutive days, an abortion foe gunned down and murdered a doctor well known for performing and advocating late term abortions, while an American convert to Islam gunned down and murdered a soldier that had recently completed boot camp. Some on the left label the murderer of the doctor as a terrorist. *And some on the right label the murederer of the army recruit as a terrorist. He actually was charged with 15 counts of terroristic acts, in addition to murder. The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. In both cases, we are told the current evidence is that both murderers acted alone, based on preliminary investigations. the question is whether this is terrorism. Of course it is. Wiki: Terrorism is a policy or ideology of violence[1] intended to intimidate or cause terror[2] for the purpose of "exerting pressure on decision making by state bodies."[1] Maybe it is. And surely it is bad enough. But it seems to me, in the lack of organization and goup executiion, that these are more akin to murders, but murders based upon hate and/or myopic religious zealotry. But I can see the argument for terrorism, because they are meant to intimidate others. At any rate, as bad as it is, both are less of a danger and threat than the mass murdering terrorists of Al-Queda and its affiliates, which ultimately want to cause exponential harm to us, and are activley persuing the means to do so. We need to keep our focus.- then the abortionist murder isn't terrorism by that definition. the intimidation uis aimed at doctors foing partial birht abortions. And the soldier murder is not based on intimidating governemtn action, either. *I agree. *Two issues that generally make these crimes fail to meet the standard of terrorism. 1) Being the acts of individuals it is difficult to describe these acts as being a policy or ideology of violence. You don't think that these creeps had a policy of violence? *One person acting alone without influence of others cannot establish a policy or ideology. 2) The purpose, there is no evidence that either crimes purpose was to "exert pressure on decision making state bodies". *Knowing criminal purpose is often difficult In the soldier case, the perp said that he did it "because of what they had done to Muslims in the past." * and it comes down to who "they" are? and changing the penalty based upon that does little for the victim. It's not about the present victim. *I don't like the implication that some future victims are more worthy of protection or deterrence than others. It's not about "worthiness", thought I know that that's the political argument. Than what is it about? Pandering? The intimidation or silencing of entire groups. Like police officers. |
#21
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the two recent murders
Mr Clyde Slick wrote:
On consecutive days, an abortion foe gunned down and murdered a doctor well known for performing and advocating late term abortions, while an American convert to Islam gunned down and murdered a soldier that had recently completed boot camp. Some on the left label the murderer of the doctor as a terrorist. And some on the right label the murederer of the army recruit as a terrorist. He actually was charged with 15 counts of terroristic acts, in addition to murder. The anti-aborionist may well be charged with terroristic acts, and, if Kansas has haqte crime laws, he might be charged with that. In both cases, we are told the current evidence is that both murderers acted alone, based on preliminary investigations. the question is whether this is terrorism. Maybe it is. And surely it is bad enough. But it seems to me, in the lack of organization and goup executiion, that these are more akin to murders, but murders based upon hate and/or myopic religious zealotry. But I can see the argument for terrorism, because they are meant to intimidate others. At any rate, as bad as it is, both are less of a danger and threat than the mass murdering terrorists of Al-Queda and its affiliates, You're more likely to get killed by one of your own bobbies, or a hernia, than by any "terrorist".. http://www.wired.com/science/discove.../2006/09/71743 Noam Chomsky: “What is Terrorism?” That brings us back to the question, what is terrorism? I have been assuming we understand it. Well, what is it? Well, there happen to be some easy answers to this. There is an official definition. You can find it in the US code or in US army manuals. A brief statement of it taken from a US army manual is, fair enough, is that terror is the calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to attain political or religious ideological goals through intimidation, coercion, or instilling fear. That’s terrorism. That’s a fair enough definition. I think it is reasonable to accept that. The problem is it can’t be accepted because if you accept that, all the wrong consequences follow. Now there is a major effort right now at the UN to try to develop a comprehensive treaty on terrorism. When Kofi Annan got the Nobel prize the other day, you will notice he was reported as saying that we should stop wasting time on this and really get down to it. But there’s a problem. If you use the official definition of terrorism in the comprehensive treaty, you are going to get completely the wrong results. So that can’t be done. In fact, it is even worse than that. If you take a look at the definition of Low-Intensity Warfare which is official US policy you find that it is a very close paraphrase of what I just read. In fact, Low-Intensity Conflict is just another name for terrorism. That’s why all countries, as far as I know, call whatever horrendous acts they are carrying out, counter-terrorism. We happen to call it Counter-Insurgency or Low-Intensity Conflict. So that’s a serious problem. You can’t use the actual definitions. You’ve got to carefully find a definition that doesn’t have all the wrong consequences. There are some other problems. Some of them came up in December 1987, at the peak of the first war on terrorism, that’s when the furor over the plague was peaking. The United Nations General Assembly passed a very strong resolution against terrorism, condemning the plague in the strongest terms, calling on every state to fight against it in every possible way. It passed unanimously. One country, Honduras, abstained. Two votes against; the usual two, United States and Israel. Why should the United States and Israel vote against a major resolution condemning terrorism in the strongest terms, in fact pretty much the terms that the Reagan administration was using? Well, there is a reason. There was one paragraph in that long resolution which said that nothing in this resolution infringes on the rights of people struggling against racist and colonialist regimes or foreign military occupation to continue with their resistance with the assistance of others, other states, states outside in their just cause. Well, the United States and Israel can’t accept that. The main reason that they couldn’t at the time was because of South Africa. South Africa was officially called an ally. There was a terrorist force in South Africa. It was called the African National Congress. They were a terrorist force officially. South Africa in contrast was an ally and we certainly couldn’t support actions by a terrorist group struggling against a racist regime. That would be impossible. And of course there is another one. Namely the Israeli occupied territories, now going into its 35th year. Supported primarily by the United States in blocking a diplomatic settlement for 30 years now, still is. And you can’t have that. There was another one at the time. Israel was occupying Southern Lebanon and was being combated by what the US calls a terrorist force, Hizbullah, which in fact succeeded in driving Israel out of Lebanon. And you can’t have… allow anyone to struggle against a military occupation when it is one that we support so therefore the US and Israel had to vote against the major UN resolution on terrorism. And I mentioned before that a US vote against is essentially a veto. Which is only half the story. It also vetoes it from history. So none of this was every reported and none of it appeared in the annals of terrorism. If you look at the scholarly work on terrorism and so on, nothing that I have just mentioned appears. The reason is that it‘s got the wrong people holding the guns. You have to carefully hone the definitions and the scholarship and so on so that you come out with the right conclusions; otherwise it is not respectable scholarship and honorable journalism. These are some of the problems that are hampering the effort to develop a comprehensive treaty against terrorism. Maybe we should have an academic conference or something to try to see if we can figure out a way of defining terrorism so that it comes out with just the right answers, not the wrong answers. That won’t be easy -- S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t |
#22
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the two recent murders
On Jun 12, 3:41*pm, ScottW2 wrote:
On Jun 2, 8:17*pm, Jenn wrote: *I don't like the implication that some future victims are more worthy of protection or deterrence than others. It's not about "worthiness", thought I know that that's the political argument. *Than what is it about? *Pandering? The intimidation or silencing of entire groups. *Like police officers.. *So the dems fairness doctrine is a hate crime. *Good to know. Meanwhile it turns out that the lunatic museum shooter wasn't christian, is a socialist, and thinks Bush was behind 9/11. Sounds like a lunatic lefty to me. Yes, 2pid, in a revised listing by the SPLC the White Nationalists like Bratzi are now categorized on the left. Hitler and Stalin are too, as is Pol Pot. And in breaking news on Fox the Spanish Inquisition has now been blamed on the Democrats. LoL. You are *so* brilliant! LoL. |
#23
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the two recent murders
On Jun 12, 12:34*pm, Signal wrote:
You're more likely to get killed by one of your own bobbies, or a hernia, than by any "terrorist".. HAve anything else as stupid that you can say? right, and you're more likely to get killed by a drunk driver than by an IED in Baghdad. In 1941 you were more likely to get killed by smoking cigarettes than from a Japanese sneak attack. |
#24
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
Clyde Slick wrote:
You're more likely to get killed by one of your own bobbies, or a hernia, than by any "terrorist".. HAve anything else as stupid that you can say? Facts are offensive and stupid now? That's odd.. that's weird. right, and you're more likely to get killed by a drunk driver than by an IED in Baghdad. In 1941 you were more likely to get killed by smoking cigarettes than from a Japanese sneak attack. Have you considered alcohol-free beverages? -- S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t |
#25
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
On Jun 12, 8:04*pm, Signal wrote:
Clyde Slick wrote: You're more likely to get killed by one of your own bobbies, or a hernia, than by any "terrorist".. HAve anything else as stupid that you can say? Facts are offensive and stupid now? That's odd.. that's weird. The misuse and misinterpretation of Irrelevant facts are offensive an stupid right, and you're more likely to get killed by a drunk driver than by an IED in Baghdad. In 1941 you were more likely to get killed by smoking cigarettes than from a Japanese sneak attack. Have you considered alcohol-free beverages? Good News!!! You don't like misused, misinterpretated and irrelevent facts any more than I do! |
#26
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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the two recent murders
In article
, ScottW2 wrote: On Jun 2, 8:17*pm, Jenn wrote: *I don't like the implication that some future victims are more worthy of protection or deterrence than others. It's not about "worthiness", thought I know that that's the political argument. *Than what is it about? *Pandering? The intimidation or silencing of entire groups. *Like police officers. So the dems fairness doctrine is a hate crime. Good to know. Meanwhile it turns out that the lunatic museum shooter wasn't christian, Oh, you're right; he can't be a right winger then. is a socialist, "WESTERN SOCIALISM, unlike Marxism/Communism and Capitalism, emanates not from Reason alone but from the ETHOS OF THE WEST. It expresses the instinctive and Intuitive feelings UNIQUE to the Aryan Nation. Its Idea is the Musketeers¹ cry: ³One for All and All for One!² The ingathering of the White Nation-States into ONE CULTURAL ORGANISM ‹ its own territory and its own State in which to house, protect, and nurture the Nation ‹ precludes Marxist inspired class warfare and hate-struggles between its component parts. The ECONOMY springs from the CULTURE. MONEY becomes merely a tool, a means of exchange, a storage of value ‹ not an ILLUMINATI weapon.² (pp. 143-4). ³No intelligent person took MARX seriously. His Old Testament idea that work is evil ‹ and New Testament idea that men and races are equally endowed ‹ opposes Nature and the very Soul of the West.² Marxists, Bolsheviks, Communists denounce ³capitalist pigs.² While from behind the scenes ‹ in the on-going battle to implement the PROTOCOLS OF ZION ‹ all wars and revolutions are financed by JEW CAPITALISTS. (pp. 143-5.)" Yeah, sounds like what most of the world means by "socialist" alright. and thinks Bush was behind 9/11. Is Alex Jones a liberal? lol |
#27
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the two recent murders
On Jun 13, 11:26*pm, ScottW2 wrote:
On Jun 13, 7:48*pm, Jenn wrote: Oh, you're right; he can't be a right winger then. *I actually don't think he is any wing but the insane wing. *The blame game going on is the closest thing this guy who was the utlimate blamer, played. "Aw, heck, I'm jes' not gonna play the goshdarned old blame game". Guess who said that, 2pid? LoL. |
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