Does anyone know offhand what the range of safe room temperatures (in
F, please) is for studio gear?

"Nat" wrote in message
ups.com...
Does anyone know offhand what the range of safe room temperatures (in
F, please) is for studio gear?

It varies with the equipment, but typically 40 degrees to 120 degrees if
the equipment is in use, the range for storage is considerably wider. Note
that this doesn't take humidity into account, and the higher the humidity,
the more narrow the usable temprature range. If you bring your gear in to a
warm area from a cold area, always let it set for a couple of hours before
plugging it in and turning it on so that any condensation that the
temperature change might have caused has a chance to evaporate.

That's about the range I suspected. Always curious on that. Thanks.

Sometimes when gear goes bad I wonder if I haven't been surge
protecting well enough, if I've not let a cold warm room up long
enough, or if it's just bad luck.

"Porky" wrote in message . ..

"Nat" wrote in message
ups.com...
Does anyone know offhand what the range of safe room temperatures (in
F, please) is for studio gear?

It varies with the equipment, but typically 40 degrees to 120 degrees if
the equipment is in use, the range for storage is considerably wider. Note
that this doesn't take humidity into account, and the higher the humidity,
the more narrow the usable temprature range. If you bring your gear in to a
warm area from a cold area, always let it set for a couple of hours before
plugging it in and turning it on so that any condensation that the
temperature change might have caused has a chance to evaporate.



I know any number of consoles and hardware devices that would probably
fry at a 100 degree *room* temperature. That could put the inside of some
mixers and processors in the 130 degree (plus) range.

I think this is going to be require some more 'specifics' as to what type of
gear we're talking about... but I personally wouldn't go anywhere near a
120 degree room, to heck with the equipment !

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

"Nat" wrote in message
ups.com...
Does anyone know offhand what the range of safe room temperatures (in
F, please) is for studio gear?

**Depends where you're measuring it and under what conditions. Junction
temperatures (of semis) should never exceed 150oC (get with the programme,
BTW, 95% of the planet's population uses oC not oF). Figure on around 90oC
at heatsinks and cases should never exceed around 60oC. Give or take.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Just a general question, no specific gear in mind.

But 100% of Jesusland uses oF!

"Nat" wrote in message
oups.com...
But 100% of Jesusland uses oF!

**Nope. Scientists and others have used Metric for decades. Even in the US.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Nat" wrote in message
oups.com...
But 100% of Jesusland uses oF!

**Nope. Scientists and others have used Metric for decades. Even in the
US.

I buy Cokes in one 1/2 liter bottles now. I count my fat grams. I state my
weight in kilos so I don't seem so fat. However, I draw the line at
measuring Mr. Happy in centimeters - I prefer a larger scale on principle.

"Jim Carr" wrote in message
news:WwQUd.31941$Tt.16238@fed1read05...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Nat" wrote in message
oups.com...
But 100% of Jesusland uses oF!

**Nope. Scientists and others have used Metric for decades. Even in the
US.

I buy Cokes in one 1/2 liter bottles now. I count my fat grams. I state my
weight in kilos so I don't seem so fat. However, I draw the line at
measuring Mr. Happy in centimeters - I prefer a larger scale on principle.

**You could measure "Mr Happy" in Microns.

BTW: While you're switching to Metric, see if you Yanks can spell Litre
correctly. The rest of the planet manages to do so.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

**Nope. Scientists and others have used Metric for decades. Even in
the US.

No offense meant. I only kid, and I agree that metric makes way more
sense.

"Nat" wrote in message oups.com...
Just a general question, no specific gear in mind.


OK then, if the ambient temperature in a room where one of my favorite
consoles sits, or in the room where the power supplies sit... were to hit
120 degrees, it (they) would be dead in a matter of hours. Same is true
with a great deal of hardware processors, both tube and solid state.
There are a number of quality reverbs and other single space processing
gear that cannot be racked without leaving space for air flow between them.

The console I refer to is almost 30 years old and is full of small transformers,
relays and other coils. Running with a room temperature in excess of 80
degrees would be asking for potential trouble.... and that would still make
parts of the surface and interior of the desk in the high 90's.

Even some of the best consoles are equipped with what people term
120 degree capacitors - they aren't expected to operate inside a room
which is itself 120 degrees.

I think all I am trying to do here, is lodge a slight disagreement with an
acceptable room temperature that might exceed 90 degrees if you have
any equipment at all that generates it's own heat.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

BTW: While you're switching to Metric, see if you Yanks can spell Litre
correctly. The rest of the planet manages to do so.

According to Google, there are five times as many sites with liter as with
litre. Americans won't go with litre for two reasons: First, it's from the
French and second, it helps us remember that a liter is "lighter" than a
quart.

**Nope. Scientists and others have used Metric for decades. Even in
the US.

Sorry, I was kidding, and I was probably too flippant. I'm from the
Midwest, and we don't see too much in oC out here. I agree with you,
metric makes more sense.

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:WMwUd.15556$QQ3.1231@trnddc02...

"Porky" wrote in message
. ..

"Nat" wrote in message
ups.com...
Does anyone know offhand what the range of safe room temperatures (in
F, please) is for studio gear?

It varies with the equipment, but typically 40 degrees to 120 degrees
if
the equipment is in use, the range for storage is considerably wider.
Note
that this doesn't take humidity into account, and the higher the
humidity,
the more narrow the usable temprature range. If you bring your gear in
to a
warm area from a cold area, always let it set for a couple of hours
before
plugging it in and turning it on so that any condensation that the
temperature change might have caused has a chance to evaporate.



I know any number of consoles and hardware devices that would probably
fry at a 100 degree *room* temperature. That could put the inside of some
mixers and processors in the 130 degree (plus) range.

I was talking about Farenheit, not Celsius, if I didn't make that clear
enough. Having done a lot of live outdoor work, some in outdoor temps as low
as the 30's and as high as 110+, and I can tell you most pro audio
equipment, even a lot of that designed for studio work, will easily stand up
to those temps as long as they are well ventilated. Ventilation is
everything when dealing with high ambient temps.


I think this is going to be require some more 'specifics' as to what type
of
gear we're talking about... but I personally wouldn't go anywhere near a
120 degree room, to heck with the equipment !

Try recording a live outdoor concert in July in the deep south, when the
temp is about 112 and the humidity is over 90%, you'll probably break down
before the equipment does. :-)

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:dsRUd.48341$uc.6478@trnddc08...

"Nat" wrote in message
oups.com...
Just a general question, no specific gear in mind.


OK then, if the ambient temperature in a room where one of my favorite
consoles sits, or in the room where the power supplies sit... were to hit
120 degrees, it (they) would be dead in a matter of hours. Same is true
with a great deal of hardware processors, both tube and solid state.
There are a number of quality reverbs and other single space processing
gear that cannot be racked without leaving space for air flow between
them.

The console I refer to is almost 30 years old and is full of small
transformers,
relays and other coils. Running with a room temperature in excess of 80
degrees would be asking for potential trouble.... and that would still
make
parts of the surface and interior of the desk in the high 90's.

Even some of the best consoles are equipped with what people term
120 degree capacitors - they aren't expected to operate inside a room
which is itself 120 degrees.

I think all I am trying to do here, is lodge a slight disagreement with an
acceptable room temperature that might exceed 90 degrees if you have
any equipment at all that generates it's own heat.


When I was in the Army, back in the late sixties, we had sensitive
electronic diagnostic tube equipment that had to be kept at an ambient temp
of 56 degrees F, it went out of calibration at about 60F, but is was far
more sensitive than even the most esoteric audio electronics, and lives
depended on it's proper functioning. I've seen studio recording equipment
(including tube-type equipment) used to record live concerts at well over
100F, without malfunction, again, the key to keeping it working is adequate
ventilation.
In a studio enviornment, however, anyone who can afford the equipment can
afford the air conditioning to keep it at reasonable temps, so it would be
foolish to keep and use expensive equipment in a non-enviornment controlled
room. Personally, I recommend keeping your studio at between 65 and 75 F, it
will be more comfortable for you, the musicians, and the equipment. I
certainly wouldn't want to work in a studio at 90F, but iof the music was
good enough, I wouldn't hestiate to use my stuff to record it even if it was
90F! :-)

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Nat" wrote in message
oups.com...
But 100% of Jesusland uses oF!

**Nope. Scientists and others have used Metric for decades. Even in the
US.


Yeah, but us dumb musicians use Farenheit, practically the world over. :-)
We just don't understand the 5/9, 9/5,
+-32 thing. :-) The Celcius safe temperature range would be on the order of
0 to 50 C.

"Jim Carr" wrote in message
news:ksRUd.31946$Tt.154@fed1read05...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

BTW: While you're switching to Metric, see if you Yanks can spell Litre
correctly. The rest of the planet manages to do so.

According to Google, there are five times as many sites with liter as with
litre. Americans won't go with litre for two reasons: First, it's from the
French and second, it helps us remember that a liter is "lighter" than a
quart.

Wait a minute, a liter is 33.8 ounces, making it heavier than a quart.
(Check your coke bottle, Jim. :-)). You pronounce it "lee-ter", not
"lee-tree", so Jim is right, "liter" is the correct spelling. We also go to
a theater, while the British go to a theatre. My spell checker accepts both
spellings as being correct, so I guess it really doesn't mattre. :-)

"Porky" wrote in message ...

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
news:dsRUd.48341$uc.6478@trnddc08...

I think all I am trying to do here, is lodge a slight disagreement with an
acceptable room temperature that might exceed 90 degrees if you have
any equipment at all that generates it's own heat.


Personally, I recommend keeping your studio at between 65 and 75 F, it
will be more comfortable for you, the musicians, and the equipment. I
certainly wouldn't want to work in a studio at 90F, but iof the music was
good enough, I wouldn't hestiate to use my stuff to record it even if it was
90F! :-)


Then we are in complete agreement. I maintain a control room (or anyone
else's control room) at between 70 and 74 degrees. I rarely let the main
recording areas approach 80 degrees.

So.... I can't help but ask, why did you originally say, "It varies with the
equipment, but typically 40 degrees to 120 degrees if the equipment is
in use, the range for storage is considerably wider" ?? Typo ?? g

;-)


Peace,

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

"Porky" wrote in message
. ..

"Jim Carr" wrote in message
news:ksRUd.31946$Tt.154@fed1read05...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

BTW: While you're switching to Metric, see if you Yanks can spell
Litre
correctly. The rest of the planet manages to do so.

According to Google, there are five times as many sites with liter as
with
litre. Americans won't go with litre for two reasons: First, it's from
the
French and second, it helps us remember that a liter is "lighter" than a
quart.

Wait a minute, a liter is 33.8 ounces, making it heavier than a quart.
(Check your coke bottle, Jim. :-)).

Wrong! You measure quarts in ounces, but you measure liters in millilters.
There are 32 ounces in a quart, but 1000 milliliters in a liter. Therefore,
a quart must be lighter than liter (321000). It's just like a meter is
longer than a yard. You have 36 inches in a yard, but you have 100
centimeters in a meter (10036).

It's the ease of math that makes the metric system so widely popular.

"Jim Carr" wrote in message
news:ksRUd.31946$Tt.154@fed1read05...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

BTW: While you're switching to Metric, see if you Yanks can spell Litre
correctly. The rest of the planet manages to do so.

According to Google, there are five times as many sites with liter as with
litre. Americans won't go with litre for two reasons: First, it's from the
French and second, it helps us remember that a liter is "lighter" than a
quart.

It is?

Peace,
Paul

"Porky" wrote in message
. ..

Try recording a live outdoor concert in July in the deep south, when the
temp is about 112 and the humidity is over 90%, you'll probably break down
before the equipment does. :-)

You don't even need to go that far south...try a folk festival in Missouri
in August. Sizzle. (But the Studer never quit.)

Peace,
Paul

"Jim Carr" wrote in message
news:ksRUd.31946$Tt.154@fed1read05
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

BTW: While you're switching to Metric, see if you Yanks can spell
Litre correctly. The rest of the planet manages to do so.

According to Google, there are five times as many sites with liter as
with litre. Americans won't go with litre for two reasons: First,
it's from the French and second, it helps us remember that a liter is
"lighter" than a quart.

I wish the U.S. Governement would get off their butts and legislate us into
100% metric. I was involved in the failed attempt at metrification in the
1970s, and still think it was a very good idea.

AFAIK, the only people using the old English measurement system are us and
some countries in darkest Africa. Is hanging onto this awkward antique of a
system a form of protectionism or what?

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 06:04:23 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Jim Carr" wrote in message
news:ksRUd.31946$Tt.154@fed1read05
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

BTW: While you're switching to Metric, see if you Yanks can spell
Litre correctly. The rest of the planet manages to do so.

According to Google, there are five times as many sites with liter as
with litre. Americans won't go with litre for two reasons: First,
it's from the French and second, it helps us remember that a liter is
"lighter" than a quart.

I wish the U.S. Governement would get off their butts and legislate us into
100% metric. I was involved in the failed attempt at metrification in the
1970s, and still think it was a very good idea.

AFAIK, the only people using the old English measurement system are us and
some countries in darkest Africa. Is hanging onto this awkward antique of a
system a form of protectionism or what?


It would certainly solve the problem of your under-sized gallons.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Arny Krueger wrote:
I wish the U.S. Governement would get off their butts and legislate us into
100% metric. I was involved in the failed attempt at metrification in the
1970s, and still think it was a very good idea.

I think 99% of the problem, other than the cost of switching over,
was that people (especially older people) didn't know what the heck
a liter or a meter or whatever *was*. The local Mobil station tried
selling gas in liters for about 2 weeks one time back then, and my
parents (I was a kid) were furious, because (a) the old system of
gallons worked OK, and (b) they had no idea how big a liter was.

If metrification is ever going to succeed, there is going to need
to be a MASSIVE public education campaign. People need to have an
intuitive idea of how to use measurement units. They need to be
able to look at any object and make a guess about how big it is
in cm or whatever, about its mass in kg, etc., etc. Measurements
need to be immediately useful in a concrete way. So, they need to
have TV ads, billboards, radio ads, flyers, web banner ads, and so
on that say things like this:

"2 inches is about the same as 5 centimeters"
"A liter is about the same size as a quart, except about 5% larger"
"A paperclip 'weighs' about one gram"
"A quarter-pound hamburger patty would be about a tenth-kg pattie"
"A meter is about 10% longer than a yard"
"A six-foot-tall man is about 182 cm tall"
"A five-foot-tall woman is about 152 cm tall"
"A ninety-eight pound weakling is a fourty-four kg weakling"
"A centimeter is small than half an inch"

Heck, if they really want adoption, they need to have contests with
big cash prizes where the contestants compete on their ability to
estimate in metric units the volume, mass, and length of things.

Unfortunately, I think we are actually going backwards in this area.
When I was a kid in school in the 1970's, they taught us as much or
more metric stuff as they did imperial units. Apparently, they have
actually backed off from this and only teach some metric in science
classes. Which is, of course, totally stupid in my opinion.

- Logan

"Jim Carr" wrote in message
news:ksRUd.31946$Tt.154@fed1read05...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

BTW: While you're switching to Metric, see if you Yanks can spell Litre
correctly. The rest of the planet manages to do so.

According to Google, there are five times as many sites with liter as with
litre. Americans won't go with litre for two reasons: First, it's from the
French and second, it helps us remember that a liter is "lighter" than a
quart.

**You Americans have short memories, doncha? Without the French, you would
still be British subjects.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Porky" wrote in message
.. .

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Nat" wrote in message
oups.com...
But 100% of Jesusland uses oF!

**Nope. Scientists and others have used Metric for decades. Even in the
US.


Yeah, but us dumb musicians use Farenheit, practically the world over. :-)

**The term "dumb musicians" is the same as 'broke musicians', or 'long
haired, drug taking musicians' or even 'junk food eating musicians'. All are
redundant. The term: 'musicians' describes all the above quite nicely.


We just don't understand the 5/9, 9/5,
+-32 thing. :-) The Celcius safe temperature range would be on the order
of
0 to 50 C.

**Outer case temps, yes.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Logan Shaw wrote:
Unfortunately, I think we are actually going backwards in this area.
When I was a kid in school in the 1970's, they taught us as much or
more metric stuff as they did imperial units. Apparently, they have
actually backed off from this and only teach some metric in science
classes. Which is, of course, totally stupid in my opinion.

- Logan

And you get situations such as, the airliner filled in pounds of fuel,
when the driver thinks he's getting kilos, or the Mars destined
spaceship, on which Newton/metres and foot/pounds have been confused.
There is a link between these two, and it is "SPLAT!"

It does take time, and education, to achieve the change. The UK is on
the way, with many things converted, about the only thing left in
OFFICIAL use is the mile. People have been prosecuted for selling
vegatables in pounds.

Oh, and of course, we all still use a "non-metric" hour, minute & second!

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jim Carr" wrote in message
news:ksRUd.31946$Tt.154@fed1read05
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

BTW: While you're switching to Metric, see if you Yanks can spell
Litre correctly. The rest of the planet manages to do so.

According to Google, there are five times as many sites with liter as
with litre. Americans won't go with litre for two reasons: First,
it's from the French and second, it helps us remember that a liter is
"lighter" than a quart.

I wish the U.S. Governement would get off their butts and legislate us
into
100% metric. I was involved in the failed attempt at metrification in the
1970s, and still think it was a very good idea.

AFAIK, the only people using the old English measurement system are us
and
some countries in darkest Africa. Is hanging onto this awkward antique of
a
system a form of protectionism or what?

**I don't believe so. I think it is an education thing. It is a big job to
convert a nation to Metric. Even here, where we began our switch to Metric,
back in the 1970s, many items are still Imperial. Plumbing fittings,
automobile tyres (yet every screw, nut and bolt in cars was Metric as far
back as 1976) and, of course, the biggie: DIL integrated circuit hole
spacings. Funnily enough, the stuff which changes fastest are the things we
use every day. Distance measurements, automobile speeds, temperature
measurements and fluid measurements. I still can't remember how many kilo
Pascals I need to feed into my car tyres. I know it's 34 PSI though. The US
is big enough and has a large enough manufacturing base to not worry too
much about it. I guess that's why you never changed. Too hard, for not much
(obvious) return.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Nat" wrote in message
oups.com...
**Nope. Scientists and others have used Metric for decades. Even in
the US.

No offense meant. I only kid, and I agree that metric makes way more
sense.

**NP


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Jim Carr" wrote in message
news:ksRUd.31946$Tt.154@fed1read05...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...


BTW: While you're switching to Metric, see if you Yanks can spell Litre
correctly. The rest of the planet manages to do so.

According to Google, there are five times as many sites with liter as with
litre. Americans won't go with litre for two reasons: First, it's from the
French and second, it helps us remember that a liter is "lighter" than a
quart.


**You Americans have short memories, doncha? Without the French, you would
still be British subjects.


I suppose we Brits do have SOMETHING to thank the French for...

"Andrew Chesters" wrote in message
...
Logan Shaw wrote:
Unfortunately, I think we are actually going backwards in this area.
When I was a kid in school in the 1970's, they taught us as much or
more metric stuff as they did imperial units. Apparently, they have
actually backed off from this and only teach some metric in science
classes. Which is, of course, totally stupid in my opinion.

- Logan

And you get situations such as, the airliner filled in pounds of fuel,
when the driver thinks he's getting kilos, or the Mars destined spaceship,
on which Newton/metres and foot/pounds have been confused. There is a link
between these two, and it is "SPLAT!"

It does take time, and education, to achieve the change. The UK is on the
way, with many things converted, about the only thing left in OFFICIAL use
is the mile. People have been prosecuted for selling vegatables in
pounds.

Oh, and of course, we all still use a "non-metric" hour, minute & second!

**Not so. The MKS (Metre, Kilogramme, Second) system is so named, because
time is part of the system.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Andrew Chesters" wrote in message
...
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Jim Carr" wrote in message
news:ksRUd.31946$Tt.154@fed1read05...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...


BTW: While you're switching to Metric, see if you Yanks can spell Litre
correctly. The rest of the planet manages to do so.

According to Google, there are five times as many sites with liter as
with
litre. Americans won't go with litre for two reasons: First, it's from
the
French and second, it helps us remember that a liter is "lighter" than a
quart.


**You Americans have short memories, doncha? Without the French, you
would still be British subjects.


I suppose we Brits do have SOMETHING to thank the French for...

**Indeed.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Andrew Chesters" wrote in message
...

Logan Shaw wrote:

Unfortunately, I think we are actually going backwards in this area.
When I was a kid in school in the 1970's, they taught us as much or
more metric stuff as they did imperial units. Apparently, they have
actually backed off from this and only teach some metric in science
classes. Which is, of course, totally stupid in my opinion.

- Logan

And you get situations such as, the airliner filled in pounds of fuel,
when the driver thinks he's getting kilos, or the Mars destined spaceship,
on which Newton/metres and foot/pounds have been confused. There is a link
between these two, and it is "SPLAT!"

It does take time, and education, to achieve the change. The UK is on the
way, with many things converted, about the only thing left in OFFICIAL use
is the mile. People have been prosecuted for selling vegatables in
pounds.

Oh, and of course, we all still use a "non-metric" hour, minute & second!


**Not so. The MKS (Metre, Kilogramme, Second) system is so named, because
time is part of the system.


I accept it is part of the system, I didn't think I would need to put
:-) after THAT statement. ;-) Still, it would be a giggle to try and
change it all again to get 100 whotsits in a thingy, a hundred of which
equal a day.

Never heard it called MKS before, it it a 'Down-Under' thing?

"Andrew Chesters" wrote in message
...
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Andrew Chesters" wrote in
message ...

Logan Shaw wrote:

Unfortunately, I think we are actually going backwards in this area.
When I was a kid in school in the 1970's, they taught us as much or
more metric stuff as they did imperial units. Apparently, they have
actually backed off from this and only teach some metric in science
classes. Which is, of course, totally stupid in my opinion.

- Logan

And you get situations such as, the airliner filled in pounds of fuel,
when the driver thinks he's getting kilos, or the Mars destined
spaceship, on which Newton/metres and foot/pounds have been confused.
There is a link between these two, and it is "SPLAT!"

It does take time, and education, to achieve the change. The UK is on
the way, with many things converted, about the only thing left in
OFFICIAL use is the mile. People have been prosecuted for selling
vegatables in pounds.

Oh, and of course, we all still use a "non-metric" hour, minute & second!


**Not so. The MKS (Metre, Kilogramme, Second) system is so named, because
time is part of the system.


I accept it is part of the system, I didn't think I would need to put :-)
after THAT statement. ;-) Still, it would be a giggle to try and change
it all again to get 100 whotsits in a thingy, a hundred of which equal a
day.

Never heard it called MKS before, it it a 'Down-Under' thing?

**I doubt it. We learned it in school in the late 1960s.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Andrew Chesters" wrote in message
...

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Andrew Chesters" wrote in
message ...


Logan Shaw wrote:


Unfortunately, I think we are actually going backwards in this area.
When I was a kid in school in the 1970's, they taught us as much or
more metric stuff as they did imperial units. Apparently, they have
actually backed off from this and only teach some metric in science
classes. Which is, of course, totally stupid in my opinion.

- Logan

And you get situations such as, the airliner filled in pounds of fuel,
when the driver thinks he's getting kilos, or the Mars destined
spaceship, on which Newton/metres and foot/pounds have been confused.
There is a link between these two, and it is "SPLAT!"

It does take time, and education, to achieve the change. The UK is on
the way, with many things converted, about the only thing left in
OFFICIAL use is the mile. People have been prosecuted for selling
vegatables in pounds.

Oh, and of course, we all still use a "non-metric" hour, minute & second!


**Not so. The MKS (Metre, Kilogramme, Second) system is so named, because
time is part of the system.



I accept it is part of the system, I didn't think I would need to put :-)
after THAT statement. ;-) Still, it would be a giggle to try and change
it all again to get 100 whotsits in a thingy, a hundred of which equal a
day.

Never heard it called MKS before, it it a 'Down-Under' thing?


**I doubt it. We learned it in school in the late 1960s.


Ahh, I was living in the still Imperial colonies in the late '60s.
Didn't come back to Blighty until "the winter of discontent" and the
three day week...

Andrew Chesters wrote:
Oh, and of course, we all still use a "non-metric" hour, minute &
second!

No "we" do not. The SI unit for time is and always has been the second.
There are no hours, minutes, days, weeks, months or years in the metric
system. The half life of a free neutron, for instance, is about 10^3
seconds, not about "15 minutes".

As far as official SI units are concerned, a real example might be
the SI unit of force, a Newton, defined as a kilogram*meter/second^2.

Quaint usage like "kilowatt-hours" not withstanding, the SI unit for
energy is the watt second, also known as the joule.

"Logan Shaw" wrote in message
...

If metrification is ever going to succeed, there is going to need
to be a MASSIVE public education campaign. People need to have an
intuitive idea of how to use measurement units.

Trying to explain the measurements it why it failed. This country has had no
trouble with two liter bottles of soda, counting grams of carbs, or using
megabytes, kilobytes or gigabytes. They watch the Olympics and deal with
everything being measured in meters. Why? Because it is what it is.

This country tried to switch by using dual measurements, which provided zero
benefit. Who is going to learn what a liter is if everyone keeps comparing
it to another measurement? When people buy gas, they either fill it up or
put in some dollar amount. They will catch on rather quickly. In a lot of
the country distance is measured in time, not miles. People say, "the store
is 20 minutes away" or "the beach is a six hour drive away."

But the biggest reason is that it really won't make a difference in their
everyday lives. If you're not converting among the various scales, the
metric system has no intrinsic advantage. It some ways metric is less
friendly - take ordinary measurements around the house. Most people go down
to 1/8", sometimes to 1/16". The millimeter is too fine and more difficult
to read in my opinion, but not overly so. I see no advantage to it and some
minor disadvantages.

"Jim Carr" wrote in message
news:wU6Vd.36870$Tt.30797@fed1read05...
"Logan Shaw" wrote in message
...

If metrification is ever going to succeed, there is going to need
to be a MASSIVE public education campaign. People need to have an
intuitive idea of how to use measurement units.

Trying to explain the measurements it why it failed. This country has had
no
trouble with two liter bottles of soda, counting grams of carbs, or using
megabytes, kilobytes or gigabytes. They watch the Olympics and deal with
everything being measured in meters. Why? Because it is what it is.

**Agreed.


This country tried to switch by using dual measurements, which provided
zero
benefit. Who is going to learn what a liter is if everyone keeps comparing
it to another measurement? When people buy gas, they either fill it up or
put in some dollar amount. They will catch on rather quickly. In a lot of
the country distance is measured in time, not miles. People say, "the
store
is 20 minutes away" or "the beach is a six hour drive away."

**Precisely. When speedometers and odometers read in km and sign posts are
marked in km, the adjustment is easy. Dual measurements for commonly used
systems can be really dumb.


But the biggest reason is that it really won't make a difference in their
everyday lives. If you're not converting among the various scales, the
metric system has no intrinsic advantage. It some ways metric is less
friendly - take ordinary measurements around the house. Most people go
down
to 1/8", sometimes to 1/16". The millimeter is too fine and more difficult
to read in my opinion, but not overly so. I see no advantage to it and
some
minor disadvantages.

**Spoken like a woodworker. The rest of us consider mm far too coarse a
measurement. Having said that, I grew up in a world of Imperial
measurements. When selecting (say) a drill bit, I had to think real hard on
which was larger - 1/8th inch or 9/64th inch. I don't even need to think for
more than a millisecond about 3mm or 3.3mm. I KNOW which is larger
instantly.

BTW: Cm is the most commonly used measurement in most Metric nations. It is
a useful size for most common measurements around the home. Builders almost
always specify measurements to the nearest mm. There are rarely mistakes
when using such systems.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Trevor Wilson wrote:
**I don't believe so. I think it is an education thing. It is a big job to
convert a nation to Metric. Even here, where we began our switch to Metric,
back in the 1970s, many items are still Imperial. Plumbing fittings,
automobile tyres (yet every screw, nut and bolt in cars was Metric as far
back as 1976)

I forget which it is, but there is on oddball nut in my Toyota Corolla
that's a 3/8" or something. Everything else is metric, but I guess I
have to have some use for those other sockets I have.

and, of course, the biggie: DIL integrated circuit hole
spacings. Funnily enough, the stuff which changes fastest are the things we
use every day. Distance measurements, automobile speeds, temperature
measurements and fluid measurements. I still can't remember how many kilo
Pascals I need to feed into my car tyres. I know it's 34 PSI though.

That's exactly the kind of education that is needed! When I was in
school, the spent all this time teaching me how to convert from one
to another, which is nice (although pretty useless now that I've
discovered /usr/bin/units -- available on most Unix and Linux systems).

I don't know how many kilopascals it would be either, although I do
remember my high school chemistry teacher complaining that physicists
have to make everything complicated, so why couldn't they just make
a kilopascal exactly 1/100 atmospheres instead of something really close
to 1/100. (Looking it up, 101.325 kilopascals equals one atmosphere.)
Also, one atmosphere is about 15 psi, I think. So, 34 psi should
intuitively be about 230 kilopascals to make a rough guess. (I would
guess 233 for 35 psi, since that's 8/3 atmospheres, so for 34, I'll
round down to 230.) Checking with my favorite /usr/bin/units again,
it seems that 34 psi is 234.4 kilopascals.

And the more typical 32 psi is about 220 kilopascals. Which is easy
to remember because you just ask yourself "How many kilopascals am
I going to put in these tires?", and then you answer, "220, 221,
whatever it takes."

The US
is big enough and has a large enough manufacturing base to not worry too
much about it. I guess that's why you never changed. Too hard, for not much
(obvious) return.

Well, we are slowly changing. My mom once asked me what liter was,
and I asked her if she had a "two-liter" of Coke in the cabinet. She
said "yeah", and I said, "well, it's half that big". The point is,
we already have lots of products that are based on metric, and the
number seems to be slowly growing larger. Eventually we'll have a
two-system system where you'll have to know both, and then maybe there
will be an urge to simplify that down to a one-system system, and
hopefully the fact that basically all other countries use metric will
swing it in favor of metric.

However, I think it'll be a long time before architecture changes.
We are still using "two by four" pieces of wood, even though they
are not even 2" by 4" any longer. And there are zillions of people
that know design and drafting and structural engineering and
construction, and they all use feet and inches and pounds, and
their tools use those units too, and they build out of raw material
that comes in those sizes. So, given how much it costs to build an
office building or something, who's going to want to be the first
organization to have a metric building built?

- Logan