In article ,
Tharnack wrote:

I'm looking for a Mp3 player that can be connected to an external hard
drive and play the songs it contains. It would be better if it has some
kind of display or screen.

You're not looking for something portable, are you?

If it's not portable, why not use the network rather than USB?

--
Matthew Weigel
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In article ,
(Overdog) wrote:

Just as an example, the iPod designed by Apple can't be opened at
all-- even to replace the batteries when they go bad. You're supposed
to buy another one when this happens. (I am not kidding.)

Yes, they can be opened http://www.ipodbattery.com, and yes, Apple
supports buying a new battery rather than throwing the whole iPod away
http://www.apple.com/batteries/replacements.html.

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Matthew Weigel
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Well, when I posted this message I had no very precise idea of what to
expect. After doing some more surfing and reading I have to come at the
same conclusion that such a device don't really exists for the moment on
the market.

There is one company, that I know, that has based it's player on the
idea of separate components: it's the Neuros Digital Audio Player
http://www.neurosaudio.com/
But unfortunately the back pack drive must come from their labs to be
compatible.

For what I've seen, the USB promoting group is developping what they
call USB On-the-go (OTG) standard. It could allow a device to access
another device via a USB connection, without a computer. Maybe that's
the thing that will allow this to be possible.

But anyway, companies that makes these players must have a way to
interface from the hard drive to the 'motherboard'. I just don't know if
it's the same protocol for all or a player by player issue.

But for now I just bought a Rio Karma player 20GB on ebay for a good
price and I'll buy another one when the technology will improve. It's
actually a really changing area and I guess I will find the player I'm
looking for in a near future.

Tharnack

Overdog wrote:
Tharnack wrote in message m...

I'm looking for a Mp3 player that can be connected to an external hard
drive and play the songs it contains. It would be better if it has some
kind of display or screen.

Maybe this will help you understand what I mean:
http://store.lexar.com/index.cfm?cat...MPC-231&bhcp=1

The important thing is that the player and the drive are 2 separate
components unlike players such a ipod.


I have some external USB drives too, and I've long wished that
something like what you described existed. Unfortunately, to the best
of my knowledge, it does not.

The main reason is that USB is a complex protocol, and you would need
a separate device driver for each hard drive you wanted to connect.
Nobody really has an incentive to do all that work, just so you can
avoid buying the hard drive component of their product.

Of course, who knows? Maybe somebody is working on it as we speak. But
in general it seems like a niche product. Most consumers are not
"power users" and wouldn't even understand what you're asking for.

Just as an example, the iPod designed by Apple can't be opened at
all-- even to replace the batteries when they go bad. You're supposed
to buy another one when this happens. (I am not kidding.)

On an unrelated topic... in general, it's worth remembering that
hard-drive based mp3 players are delicate. When hard drives are
spinning, the amount of g-force they can endure is small. Not
something that you would really want to use when jogging, for example.
I would much rather have a flash-based mp3 player than a hard-drive
based one. (What I actually have is a portable CD player, which is
dirt cheap and adequate to the job.)

Overdog

In article ,
Tharnack wrote:

For what I've seen, the USB promoting group is developping what they
call USB On-the-go (OTG) standard. It could allow a device to access
another device via a USB connection, without a computer. Maybe that's
the thing that will allow this to be possible.

Nope. I mean, yes, that would do it... but many devices already already
get around that by being USB hosts. The Terapin mine comes to mind as
one example. The TiVo is an example of a set-top box that acts as a USB
host, as is the PS2 (and maybe the XBox, I can't remember).

Just out of curiosity, though, *why* do you want this?

But anyway, companies that makes these players must have a way to
interface from the hard drive to the 'motherboard'. I just don't know if
it's the same protocol for all or a player by player issue.

I'm pretty sure they all use IDE.

--
Matthew Weigel
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Matthew Weigel wrote:

Just out of curiosity, though, *why* do you want this?


Basic idea was to build a portable mp3 player that could be easily
upgraded. When you don't have more space or hard drives becomes cheaper,
just buy another one and plug it in. And to keep it relatively
affordable. I can't imagine paying for a device that will be outdated in
a few months. Just makes sense to me.



I'm pretty sure they all use IDE.


That's good to know. To MHO, the next mp3 player should be HDD IDE plug
n play. But that's not going to happen really soon.

In article ,
Tharnack wrote:

Basic idea was to build a portable mp3 player that could be easily
upgraded. When you don't have more space or hard drives becomes cheaper,
just buy another one and plug it in. And to keep it relatively
affordable. I can't imagine paying for a device that will be outdated in
a few months. Just makes sense to me.

USB is not what you want though. Not at all. It can't provide power,
and it's an external connection.

I'm pretty sure they all use IDE.


That's good to know. To MHO, the next mp3 player should be HDD IDE plug
n play. But that's not going to happen really soon.

http://www.digmind.com/store/index_500.html

:-)

--
Matthew Weigel
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the contents of the post are not

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:58:08 -0500, Matthew Weigel
wrote:


USB is not what you want though. Not at all. It can't provide power,

yes it can

and it's an external connection.

You got that bit right :-)

In article ,
Laurence Payne wrote:

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:58:08 -0500, Matthew Weigel
wrote:


USB is not what you want though. Not at all. It can't provide power,

yes it can

Whoops, you're right. There are a few bus-powered hard drives out there.

--
Matthew Weigel
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Matthew Weigel wrote:

Whoops, you're right. There are a few bus-powered hard drives out there.


Usually, all USB powered HDs are laptop-class drives due to
their low current requirements (something along the lines of
1/3 to 1/10th of a 3.5" desktop HD).

Matthew Weigel wrote in message ...
In article ,
Tharnack wrote:

Basic idea was to build a portable mp3 player that could be easily
upgraded. When you don't have more space or hard drives becomes cheaper,
just buy another one and plug it in. And to keep it relatively
affordable. I can't imagine paying for a device that will be outdated in
a few months. Just makes sense to me.

USB is not what you want though. Not at all. It can't provide power,
and it's an external connection.

Actually, the USB bus does provide power. The red wire is specced to
4.5 - 5V @ 500 mA. USB 2.0 might provide even more bus power-- I
haven't looked at the spec.

If you read his original post, he is basically looking for a device
that connects to his USB storage device, and play the music on it. So
I don't really understand your comment about "usb is an external
connection, therefore usb is bad."

Btw... in another thread you point out that most USB hard drives use
IDE internally. That's irrelevant, because they talk to the outside
world via a usb protocol. Unless you like soldering 40 external wires
to your drive, you're not gonna see that IDE bus.

BTW, you are correct that it is possible to replace the battery inside
an Apple iPod. However, for a long time, Apple had no official program
in place for battery replacement. Only the ingenuity of 3rd party
vendors allowed ipod users to repair their old ipods. Add to that the
fact that each generation of the product has made it harder to open
the case, and you can see why I feel pretty justified in saying that
"apple does not encourage people to replace ipod batteries."

Overdog



I'm pretty sure they all use IDE.


That's good to know. To MHO, the next mp3 player should be HDD IDE plug
n play. But that's not going to happen really soon.

http://www.digmind.com/store/index_500.html

:-)

On 16 Oct 2004 20:02:01 -0700, (Overdog) wrote:

BTW, you are correct that it is possible to replace the battery inside
an Apple iPod. However, for a long time, Apple had no official program
in place for battery replacement. Only the ingenuity of 3rd party
vendors allowed ipod users to repair their old ipods. Add to that the
fact that each generation of the product has made it harder to open
the case, and you can see why I feel pretty justified in saying that
"apple does not encourage people to replace ipod batteries."

I had occasion to set up an iPod for a young friend recently. The
packaging is superb. The actual unit feels cheap and "plastic". But
it does have the magic Apple logo. Thus justifying the price, and
making it the one this intelligent but something of a fashion victim
16-year-old HAD to have.

In article ,
(Overdog) wrote:

Matthew Weigel wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tharnack wrote:

Basic idea was to build a portable mp3 player that could be easily
upgraded. When you don't have more space or hard drives becomes cheaper,
just buy another one and plug it in. And to keep it relatively
affordable. I can't imagine paying for a device that will be outdated in
a few months. Just makes sense to me.

USB is not what you want though. Not at all. It can't provide power,
and it's an external connection.

Actually, the USB bus does provide power. The red wire is specced to
4.5 - 5V @ 500 mA. USB 2.0 might provide even more bus power-- I
haven't looked at the spec.

Yes, I know the USB bus provides power. But not much. I wasn't aware
that there were drives available built around that low power
requirement. USB2.0 provides the same amount of power. Providing more
would make it incompatible with the USB1.1 spec.

If you read his original post, he is basically looking for a device
that connects to his USB storage device, and play the music on it. So
I don't really understand your comment about "usb is an external
connection, therefore usb is bad."

Why would you question my reading of his original post? I responded to
it, and you responded to that response- something to which you allude
later in your post. Now, if you read what he most recently wrote, what
he is *actually* looking for is a storage-upgradeable portable mp3
player, and he thought USB would be a good way to do that.

USB is an wire connection from one device to another (well, from a host
to a device technically), and wire connections are simply not
appropriate for portable use, because they can't be maintained stably
while holding the device in one hand. A portable device should be
completely self-contained and in a single rigid body. (headphones are
an interesting exception because they are usually 'held' by the neck or
head)

Btw... in another thread you point out that most USB hard drives use
IDE internally.

That's this thread, and no, I point out that most hard drive mp3 players
are IDE internally.

"apple does not encourage people to replace ipod batteries."

I don't think that that accurately describes the current situation.
Even back then, I think it would be more accurate to say that Apple
didn't fully grasp the needs of the market, or the long-term
implications of some of their design decisions.

Even more inaccurate was your claim that when the battery dies, your
only recourse is to buy a new iPod.

--
Matthew Weigel
the email address is real
the contents of the post are not