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5.1 surround headphones - Need advice
The need is upon me to find a headphones-based solution for my PC-oriented
5.1 experience. Fortunately, there appear to be a variety of options these days. Unfortunately, there are noteworthy obstacles to anything approaching perfection. First let me get one item out of the way. Dolby has an algorithm which simulates surround with normal stereo headphones. This is not what I am after. Some people say it is good, some say it is not so good, or doesn't work at all. There are headphones with real surround so I choose not to even consider this Dolby simulated surround option. Zalman makes a pair of surround headphones which are very common. They are reported as being uncomfortable and drowned-out sounding. They also evidently to not cover the ears, which is a feature I would very much like to have. Sony has at least three surround-sound headphone models: MDR-DS3000, MDR-DS5000 and MDR-DS8000. The differences between these models are unknown. It is also unknown whether they use real surround (with the multiple speakers per ear that implies) or the simulated approach. What I do know is that they are wireless, and at least the MDR-DS3000 can be used for 20 hours between charges. It is difficult to determine whether or not they are designed to cover the ears. (See an image he http://www.audiocubes.com/product_in...roducts_id=565 ). Generally, headphones meant to cover the ears are oval-shaped, and these appear more round. The price ($170) approaches my upper limit, but if these headphones don't have any noteworthy drawbacks, they may be the winner. Pioneer has a model which can be imported. The SE-DIR1000C. Judging by the price, the frequency response listed (10 to 24Khz) is believable. But apart from the excessive price, these headphones also appear to be the round variety. Finally we come to the Kinyo KY-100. These are almost as cheap ($60 or so) as the Zalman headphones. The sound quality is reported as being good. They're also said to be comfortable, and they are clearly designed to cover the ears. However, every review I've seen of these headphones mentions the hiss audible when using them in 5.1 mode. Evidently, the headphones come with a cheap little preamp (see the images at Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduc...01-016&depa=10 ). Considering the lack of hiss in non-5.1 mode, it is perhaps safe to suggest that the headphones themselves are not generating the audible hiss. It is probably the amp. If there could be a way of either fixing the hiss or substituting the amp with something higher quality, then perhaps these headphones would turn out to be the ones to get. This is the particular item I am hoping somebody will be willing to comment on. Judging by the images, would replacing the amp be a reasonable possibility? Lastly, I have to mention that I would strongly prefer not having to use any USB-based headphones, for various reasons. Thanks in advance! |
#2
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5.1 surround headphones - Need advice
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#3
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5.1 surround headphones - Need advice
How does 5.1 via headphones work at all? How does a pair of drivers
right at one's ears simulate distributed speakers with localization cues, and so forth? Not a flame. (I am fully capable of those. g) I am curious. Counterintuitive comes right to mind. -- ha |
#4
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5.1 surround headphones - Need advice
hank alrich wrote:
How does 5.1 via headphones work at all? How does a pair of drivers right at one's ears simulate distributed speakers with localization cues, and so forth? Not a flame. (I am fully capable of those. g) I am curious. Counterintuitive comes right to mind. -- ha Imagine that you put little tiny microphones right at the entrance to your ear canals. Binaural. Then sitting in the sweet spot you record an impulse from each speaker and record what arrives at each ear. That will be the impulse response of your HRTF to each source. It doesn't have to be your particular HRTF, they are more interchangable than seems obvious. Now take your 5.1 speaker feeds, the show or the music, and convolve each feed with the pair of impulse responses you measured from the corresponding speaker position. You will get a left and right channel for each of the feeds. Sum them all up and present them to the left and right channel of your phones and you will hear a very good simulation of the system you measured. This can be refined further by taking into account the impulse responses of the headphones at those same little microphones. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
#5
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5.1 surround headphones - Need advice
"hank alrich" wrote in message .. . How does 5.1 via headphones work at all? How does a pair of drivers right at one's ears simulate distributed speakers with localization cues, and so forth? A lot of folks have been pretty sceptical about the whole 5.1 via headphones -thing(myself included), but from what I've heard from some guys who were at the AES lectures, they were quite stunned about how well it actually works. |
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5.1 surround headphones - Need advice
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#8
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5.1 surround headphones - Need advice
Tommi wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message . .. How does 5.1 via headphones work at all? How does a pair of drivers right at one's ears simulate distributed speakers with localization cues, and so forth? A lot of folks have been pretty sceptical about the whole 5.1 via headphones -thing(myself included), but from what I've heard from some guys who were at the AES lectures, they were quite stunned about how well it actually works. Imagine a room with six speakers in it and a dummy head. You play signal back through the speakers, and record it through the dummy head. The overall effect through headphones is surprisingly close to being in a room with the speakers (even if it's not very much like being in the hall where the recording was made). You can fake this with DSP, using an impulse response for the room and then an impulse response for your head (or an idealized head). The Lake DSP guys pioneered doing it, and their system worked quite well at an AES show a few years back, though at the expense of a huge amount of computational power being needed. Back in the seventies, a couple folks made "quadrophonic" headphones, that had rear channel drivers that were baffled to have a response that sounded like they were coming from behind you. This was an attempt to model the effects of the head and ears but not the room. It was not a good idea. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
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5.1 surround headphones - Need advice
Eric F wrote in message . ..
They are all "simulated" surround. The models you all list are all like that Even the Kinyo KY-100? Here is an article which seems to be saying that each ear cup has three separate speakers: http://www.gameclubcentral.com/modul...print&sid=2329 I did suspect that the Sony models merely simulated the effect, though. Disappointing to learn it is so. The Dolby licensed "Dolby Headphone" is much superior to all contenders, including the Sony headphones. I'm using Sennheiser headphones now. I do like them, even though they inexplicably seem to be really weak with highs (model HD-265). If there was a free, convenient way of experiencing Dolby Headphone audio with them, I would certainly give it a try. (Such as perhaps an MP3.) But even if it works, I'd need to figure out a hardware solution for the Dolby Headphone dsp work, because I can't have that process sapping my CPU. I highly recommend you wait for the Pioneer SE-DIR800C headphones to be released into retail in the US (May-June) and you pick up a pair of those. They're supposed to produce a superior surround experience, even compared to their older, more expensive 1000C. They should ~ $300 street price. Do these headphones cover the ears? Very important to me, for a price like that. |
#11
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5.1 surround headphones - Need advice
Marc Brown wrote:
Eric F wrote in message . .. They are all "simulated" surround. The models you all list are all like that Even the Kinyo KY-100? Here is an article which seems to be saying that each ear cup has three separate speakers: http://www.gameclubcentral.com/modul...print&sid=2329 Frankly I think multiple speakers in the same cup is just a gimmick. There is no way that speakers in that close a proximity, without HRTF effects, can give any directionality to the sound. I did suspect that the Sony models merely simulated the effect, though. Disappointing to learn it is so. I doubt you would say that if you heard it done right. Far more realistic than what could be achieved by spacing tiny, close up speakers. But even if it works, I'd need to figure out a hardware solution for the Dolby Headphone dsp work, because I can't have that process sapping my CPU. You're right about that and I'm pretty sure Lake and Dolby have a hardware version. Bob -- "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein |
#12
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5.1 surround headphones - Need advice
On 6 Apr 2004 17:51:45 -0700, (Marc Brown) wrote:
I'm using Sennheiser headphones now. I do like them, even though they inexplicably seem to be really weak with highs (model HD-265). If there was a free, convenient way of experiencing Dolby Headphone audio with them, I would certainly give it a try. (Such as perhaps an MP3.) But even if it works, I'd need to figure out a hardware solution for the Dolby Headphone dsp work, because I can't have that process sapping my CPU. Dolby Headphone is Lake technology. Most software DVD players (ie: PowerDVD, WinDVD) support DH. Don't bother with MP3s, just stick in a Dolby encoded source (your favorive movie) and give it a try. It works really well, and is pretty impressive. Do these headphones cover the ears? Very important to me, for a price like that. AFAIK they are semi-open. I haven't tried them yet but people are saying good things about them. I plan to buy a pair. http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=59025 |
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