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Mr Fox wrote:

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 02:11:38 GMT, dizzy wrote:

Jenn wrote:

What reality have I denied and what have I made up, Arny?


You really should ignore him.


I don't know about that. Jenn doesn't seem to have to expend much
energy in these exchanges to get Krueger running around amd around his
little wheel.


LOL ! You're so right there.

Graham


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MiNe 109 said:

If you're into listing lies, list mine with full Google references.


Asymmetric, dude.


Arnii's toilet still outweighs him, but he's working to correct that.




--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006
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"George M. Middius" wrote:

MiNe 109 said:

If you're into listing lies, list mine with full Google references.


Asymmetric, dude.


Arnii's toilet still outweighs him, but he's working to correct that.


You surely mean his toilette ?

Graham

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Poopie rallies to defend the Krooborg.

Asymmetric, dude.


Arnii's toilet still outweighs him, but he's working to correct that.


You surely mean his toilette ?


Not unless that's some funky Brit euphemism for turds.




--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006
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In article ,
(paul packer) wrote:

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:00:19 GMT, Jenn
wrote:

.I'll pay more attention, Sweetie.


I see. And why does Jon deserve a "Sweetie" and the rest of us don't,
pray?

And with a capital, yet! :-)


A little tit-for-tat, as it were.


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In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
Arny Krueger wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:

Jenn started it.

Jenn can stop it.


You can stop it too.


OK, I can do what Jenn lacks the self-control to do. It is stopped.


See ya.
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In article ,
dizzy wrote:

Jenn wrote:

What reality have I denied and what have I made up, Arny?


You really should ignore him.


I know. His pathology can just be so interesting for a short time.
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Jenn wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote
"Eeyore" wrote
Arny Krueger wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:

Jenn started it.

Jenn can stop it.

You can stop it too.


OK, I can do what Jenn lacks the self-control to do. It is stopped.


See ya.


You behave too ok ? No backhanded snide comments alright ?

Graham


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DonkeyBorg rushes to protect the Krooborg from Big Bad Jenn.

See ya.


You behave too ok ? No backhanded snide comments alright ?


Shut up, Poopie. You're a stupid donkey and your contributions are
worthless.





--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006
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"George M. Middius" wrote:

DonkeyBorg rushes to protect the Krooborg from Big Bad Jenn.

See ya.


You behave too ok ? No backhanded snide comments alright ?


Shut up, Poopie. You're a stupid donkey and your contributions are
worthless.


Feeling unwanted are you ?

Graham



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Der UnterEsel hat gebrullt:

Shut up, Poopie. You're a stupid donkey and your contributions are
worthless.


Hee-haw! EEE-yaw! HNAWK!


Actually, I'm feeling embarrassed for you. Ever since you dimly realized
that Krooger really does have mental problems, you've been staggering
around like a brainwashed zombie waiting for your dark master to summon
you. If we all slap you in the face, maybe you'll snap out of it.





--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006
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Eeyore wrote in
:



Arny Krueger wrote:

"Jenn" wrote

What reality have I denied and what have I made up, Arny?


I know better than to answer this question Jenn


What you mean is that you have no answer.


Gonna nettkkkopp him planespotter?


bertie
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Eeyore wrote:
"George M. Middius" wrote:

DonkeyBorg rushes to protect the Krooborg from Big Bad Jenn.

See ya.


You behave too ok ? No backhanded snide comments alright ?


Shut up, Poopie. You're a stupid donkey and your contributions are
worthless.


Feeling unwanted are you ?

Graham


Allow me to express my admiration for your intellectual courage in
thinking for yourself rather than sticking to a chapel orthodoxy. It
might mean something to you to hear that someone does notice.
Ludovic Mirabel

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"Arny Krueger" said:


His war against Jenn is most pathetic.



Jenn started it.



"Middius made me do it!"


Jenn can stop it.



"Waaah! No fair!"


Whether or not that's true, it's still a pathetic excuse
to trot out.



No excuses are required when truth prevails. It may have been a tough and
confusing week for some, but any number of uncomfortable technical truths
about audio were exposed.



LOL!
Like 4558s are the ultimate in opamp technology?

You should apply for president of the AES, Arny.

Oh wait, that would require actually be gainfully (self) employed in
audio, right? ;-)

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."
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Sander deWaal said:

You should apply for president of the AES, Arny.
Oh wait, that would require actually be gainfully (self) employed in
audio, right? ;-)


Rubbing salt in wounds, noted, LOt"S.




--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006


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Eeyore wrote:
Mr Fox wrote:

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 02:11:38 GMT, dizzy wrote:

Jenn wrote:

What reality have I denied and what have I made up, Arny?

You really should ignore him.


I don't know about that. Jenn doesn't seem to have to expend much
energy in these exchanges to get Krueger running around amd around his
little wheel.


LOL ! You're so right there.

Graham


A few days ago I felt like many sooner or later come to feel
about discussions with Arny the Indefatigable. " Oh, what the hell?
What is the point?" One can't help deciding that he is either
intellectually dishonest.to an nth degree or so paranoid that he feels
he is always under attack by malignant forces and so entitled to use
any weapon, however disgusting, to protect himself.
But now I'm encouraged by a man who shares his audio viewpoint,,
Eeyore, trying to talk sense to him.
So I'm transferring the argument from some 500 messages ago in the "
Kroobotgs feeble assault..." thread to he The discussion was about
analogue vs. digital. I said:
"I quoted to you repeatedly what D'Agostino of Krell,... ...

He interrupts :
"IMO, a well known technical charlatan with a good grasp of marketing
sizzle".
..... Meitner of Bryston and-Museatex...
Krueger: "See above".
..... and Stuart of Meridian
Krueger:interjects "A well-known advocate of digital audio".
had to say about one of your articles of faith; superiority of all digital to all analogue.


Krueger:
"Say what? That's just one more example of dozens, of your abilities to
substitute fantasy for reality, Ludo.
Got any more fairy tales to tell?

They said it publicly where anyone can read it.

Krueger:
"No links provided - good proof that Ludo is making this up as he goes
along."
He, Krueger, is calling *me* a liar!
Now note this: On August 26th '05 -*yes August 2005*- in the "A note
for Mikey" thread in RAO I quoted to our Krueger what I had said to him
once before in the RAHE in 2003.
.. D.Agostino says:, (The Stereophile, Dec.2003,p.78:


D'Agostino:"With DVD-audio and SACD, I think there is a
possibility of equaling vinyl"
Lander: You're not in the turntable business, and you do offer CD
players, but you've said that you *prefer vinyl to the CD*.
D'Agostino: *I still think vinyl is better*, but with the two formats
we're dealing with now, DVD-Audio and SACD, I think there's a
possibility of equaling vinyl-as soon as we decide not to stick with
our old methods of recording. I think we have to go back to the drawing
board as far as how we record SACDs, because I don't think their
potential has been realized.
Note!: just *a possibility*! .And with
SACD! Did not the RAO scientists + Krueger *prove* that SACD is no
better than CD while LP is infinitely worse.
Note!: D'Agostino designs highly respected *transistor* equipment
exclusively. No tubes , no TTs, no vinyl. But our Arny of RAO fame sees
fit to dismiss him as "technical charlatan" and me as a liar.
Not even paranoia justifies this.
Now for another one of Arny's "technical charlatans" high-end designer
Meitner. This one goes back to 2001, Dec 14. Yes, 2001!!.
In "Digital is bad for you" thread in RAHE I quoted to Arny from
Meitner interview in the." Positive feedback " 0802, 2001. Meitner
interviewed by Pappas said: :
"And if listening to music was considered as relaxation and was
supposed to be a way to relieve stress, then PCM, like CD playback,
certainly doesn't do it as well as some of the old analogue stuff
did."
" For sound quality, here's one simple test. I'm doing some
transfers of vinyl LPs onto DSD. And, you know, in DSD this is a
conversion with a minimal amount of damage to the original sound. If
you consider playing back vinyl and liking all the good things about
it, now we can have it in DSD format. We could possibly take some of
the clicks and pops out of it and still have the general good flavor
preserved. The same holds true for analogue tapes and any kind of
conversion"
That was in 2001. and 2005
In July of this year 2006 I said:in "Have we got the wrong end..." July
7
"It was not the first time I quoted D'Agostino to Arny either...
It turns out that Arny CAN read. He needs only five repeats to absorb
Agostino's name and.throw it back at me shouting hurrah.
I made his day because I said Krell instead of "D'Agostino's Krell".
Well. let's have it again: D'Agostino's Krell, D'Agostino's Krell,
D'Agostino's Krell. Eeny, meenie, miny Arny.
And now that we've played children' games how about demonstrating one
is not a schoolyard dunce after all and addressing our powerful mind to

task at hand:
1) Did those two designers ( with many other authorities, not of the
RAO tribe) say that digital has not as yet caught up with analogue
rendition of music or did they not?
2) When will we see that one reference to a professional journal (Name,

year, authors, title, page) that accepted and published the results of
...
....Arny Krueger's research into anything audio: ABX, superiority of
digital, anything, anything at all."
This is the man who dares to talk of my "fairy tales"
Should I repeat all this to him more frequently? Every year? Every
six months? Whatever he may want. I'll oblige.
Ludovic Mirabel

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On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:33:29 -0400, Stuart Krivis
wrote:



task at hand:
1) Did those two designers ( with many other authorities, not of the
RAO tribe) say that digital has not as yet caught up with analogue
rendition of music or did they not?


Perhaps they realized they wouldn't sell many megabuck phono preamps
if they admitted vinyl was inferior?

Perhaps if they didn't, in general, blow smoke up people's rears they
woudn't sell much of anything at all?

Feel free to say you like vinyl better, but if you claim it's superior
to CD, you're going to need to show some proof.



Why?
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Stuart Krivis wrote:
On 2 Oct 2006 11:54:28 -0700, "
wrote:


task at hand:
1) Did those two designers ( with many other authorities, not of the
RAO tribe) say that digital has not as yet caught up with analogue
rendition of music or did they not?


Perhaps they realized they wouldn't sell many megabuck phono preamps
if they admitted vinyl was inferior?

Perhaps if they didn't, in general, blow smoke up people's rears they
woudn't sell much of anything at all?

Feel free to say you like vinyl better, but if you claim it's superior
to CD, you're going to need to show some proof.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just for interest- what phono preamps do Krell and Meitner sell?
And if find one don't they sell many times more solid state preamps.?
What kind of the mad RAO scientist logic would they follow to boost
phono over solid state?

No wonder you want your postings destroyed.
Ludovic Mirabel

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Stuart Krivis wrote:
On 2 Oct 2006 15:46:20 -0700, "
wrote:


Stuart Krivis wrote:
On 2 Oct 2006 11:54:28 -0700, "
wrote:


task at hand:
1) Did those two designers ( with many other authorities, not of the
RAO tribe) say that digital has not as yet caught up with analogue
rendition of music or did they not?

Perhaps they realized they wouldn't sell many megabuck phono preamps
if they admitted vinyl was inferior?

Perhaps if they didn't, in general, blow smoke up people's rears they
woudn't sell much of anything at all?

Feel free to say you like vinyl better, but if you claim it's superior
to CD, you're going to need to show some proof.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just for interest- what phono preamps do Krell and Meitner sell?
And if find one don't they sell many times more solid state preamps.?
What kind of the mad RAO scientist logic would they follow to boost
phono over solid state?


I don't know, what phono preamps did they sell?

Are you saying they make tube phono preamps, but SS preamps otherwise?

Where the heck did you come up with anything about solid state anyway?

No wonder you want your postings destroyed.


You're the one who just came off as raving mad. :-)

Ludovic Mirabel


Perhaps you should change that to Luddite Mirabel, but I'm sure others
have already suggested this.

=====================================

Mr. Krivis a distinguished member of the scientology chapel aspires
to the vacated crown of the chapel's clown-prince NYOB.

I raised his hackles by quoting two respected designers and
manufacturers of high-end transistor audio equipment D'Agostino.and
Meitner. Both had the inegrity (and courage) to say that they hope one
day to equal the quality of tube and vinyl. .

Mr. Krivis loked deep down into his own mental processes and found
there the answer. Money, what else, must be D'Agostino's and Meitner's
motive.
He made his propaganda Ministry press release:
Perhaps they realized they wouldn't sell many megabuck phono preamps
if they admitted vinyl was inferior?

I did not know of any megabuck (or two dollar) phono preamps that
those two were manufacturing so I asked politely:
Just for interest- what phono preamps do Krell and Meitner sell?
And if (...you...) find one don't they sell many times more solid state preamps.?
What kind of the mad RAO scientist logic would they follow to boost
phono over solid state?


Our scientologist thundered: don't know what phono preamps did they
sell.

And he asked ME:

Are you saying they make tube phono preamps, but SS preamps otherwise?


For sheer blody cheek this takes the cake. First he accuses them of
selling phono preamps for"megabucks" then tries to drop his sewer
garbage into my lap.

Where the heck did you come up with
anything about solid state anyway?


In Wikipedia thats's whe :
"Solid state (electronics) are circuits that do not contain vacuum
tubes or, more currently, moving parts". Good enough for Wiki
good enough for me. But apparently not for the clown-prince of
scientology:

Another witty riposte":
You're the one who just came off as raving mad. :-)


And a final rapier thrust:
Perhaps you should change that to Luddite Mirabel, but I'm sure others
have already suggested this.


:Yes, other rare wits in your chapel had but I can see why you
thought this pun so hilarious that you couldn't resist it. Since we're
operating at kindergarten level can I contribute? How about Stuart
Krevasse? Ha, ha, ha and ha?
Ludovic Mirabel

While we're at it and keeping the thread alive: why don't you ask your
High Priest Arny when will he answer my accusation (with evidence) that
he falsifies his own the past.correspondence.



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" wrote:

Stuart Krivis wrote:
" wrote:
Stuart Krivis wrote:


Feel free to say you like vinyl better, but if you claim it's superior
to CD, you're going to need to show some proof.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just for interest- what phono preamps do Krell and Meitner sell?
And if find one don't they sell many times more solid state preamps.?
What kind of the mad RAO scientist logic would they follow to boost
phono over solid state?


I don't know, what phono preamps did they sell?

Are you saying they make tube phono preamps, but SS preamps otherwise?

Where the heck did you come up with anything about solid state anyway?

No wonder you want your postings destroyed.


You're the one who just came off as raving mad. :-)

Ludovic Mirabel


Perhaps you should change that to Luddite Mirabel, but I'm sure others
have already suggested this.

=====================================

Mr. Krivis a distinguished member of the scientology chapel aspires
to the vacated crown of the chapel's clown-prince NYOB.

I raised his hackles by quoting two respected designers and
manufacturers of high-end transistor audio equipment D'Agostino.and
Meitner. Both had the inegrity (and courage) to say that they hope one
day to equal the quality of tube and vinyl. .


That's utterly absurd.

Tube circuitry is heavily flawed.

Vinyl is hopelessly flawed.

Graham

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On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:33:00 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:


Vinyl is hopelessly flawed.

Graham



Agreed.

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Eeyore wrote in
:



" wrote:

Stuart Krivis wrote:
" wrote:
Stuart Krivis wrote:


Feel free to say you like vinyl better, but if you claim it's
superior to CD, you're going to need to show some proof.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
------- Just for interest- what phono preamps do Krell and Meitner
sell? And if find one don't they sell many times more solid state
preamps.?
What kind of the mad RAO scientist logic would they follow to
boost
phono over solid state?

I don't know, what phono preamps did they sell?

Are you saying they make tube phono preamps, but SS preamps
otherwise?

Where the heck did you come up with anything about solid state
anyway?

No wonder you want your postings destroyed.

You're the one who just came off as raving mad. :-)

Ludovic Mirabel

Perhaps you should change that to Luddite Mirabel, but I'm sure
others have already suggested this.

=====================================

Mr. Krivis a distinguished member of the scientology chapel
aspires
to the vacated crown of the chapel's clown-prince NYOB.

I raised his hackles by quoting two respected designers and
manufacturers of high-end transistor audio equipment D'Agostino.and
Meitner. Both had the inegrity (and courage) to say that they hope
one day to equal the quality of tube and vinyl. .


That's utterly absurd.

Tube circuitry is heavily flawed.


The compleat fjukktard


Bertie

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In article ,
(paul packer) wrote:

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:33:00 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:


Vinyl is hopelessly flawed.

Graham



Agreed.


Cool.... more used records available for me.
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Eeyore wrote:
" wrote:

Stuart Krivis wrote:
" wrote:
Stuart Krivis wrote:


Feel free to say you like vinyl better, but if you claim it's superior
to CD, you're going to need to show some proof.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just for interest- what phono preamps do Krell and Meitner sell?
And if find one don't they sell many times more solid state preamps.?
What kind of the mad RAO scientist logic would they follow to boost
phono over solid state?

I don't know, what phono preamps did they sell?

Are you saying they make tube phono preamps, but SS preamps otherwise?

Where the heck did you come up with anything about solid state anyway?

No wonder you want your postings destroyed.

You're the one who just came off as raving mad. :-)

Ludovic Mirabel

Perhaps you should change that to Luddite Mirabel, but I'm sure others
have already suggested this.

=====================================

Mr. Krivis a distinguished member of the scientology chapel aspires
to the vacated crown of the chapel's clown-prince NYOB.

I raised his hackles by quoting two respected designers and
manufacturers of high-end transistor audio equipment D'Agostino.and
Meitner. Both had the inegrity (and courage) to say that they hope one
day to equal the quality of tube and vinyl. .


That's utterly absurd.

Tube circuitry is heavily flawed.

Vinyl is hopelessly flawed.

Graham

======================================

I said:
I raised his hackles by quoting two respected designers and
manufacturers of high-end transistor audio equipment D'Agostino.and
Meitner. Both had the inegrity (and courage) to say that they hope one
day to equal the quality of tube and vinyl. .


Mr. Eeyore responds;

That's utterly absurd.

Tube circuitry is heavily flawed.

Vinyl is hopelessly flawed.

Graham


There you are : Meitner of Museatex and D'Agostino of Krell on one
side the RAO distinguished chapel members Eeyore and Krivis on the
other. What is a poor nontechnical audiophile to think and do?
Ludovic Mirabel.



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Stuart Krivis wrote:
On 3 Oct 2006 19:03:53 -0700, "
wrote:

Where the heck did you come up with
anything about solid state anyway?


In Wikipedia thats's whe :
"Solid state (electronics) are circuits that do not contain vacuum
tubes or, more currently, moving parts". Good enough for Wiki
good enough for me. But apparently not for the clown-prince of
scientology:


Dude, you are seriously screwed up.

_I_ never said anything about SS equipment at all. _You_ were the one
who started in on that for some reason.


And a final rapier thrust:
Perhaps you should change that to Luddite Mirabel, but I'm sure others
have already suggested this.


:Yes, other rare wits in your chapel had but I can see why you
thought this pun so hilarious that you couldn't resist it. Since we're
operating at kindergarten level can I contribute? How about Stuart
Krevasse? Ha, ha, ha and ha?


You're the one who acts like a Luddite. You're trying to go back to
vinyl because you are somehow scared of newer technology.



While we're at it and keeping the thread alive: why don't you ask your
High Priest Arny when will he answer my accusation (with evidence) that
he falsifies his own the past.correspondence.


Ask him yourself.

Why did you feel the need to mention him anyway?


================================================== =
Krivis drags in the psychoanalyst's couch to place it next to his
scientology altar.

You're the one who acts like a Luddite. You're trying to go back to
vinyl because you are somehow scared of newer technology.


I am so scared that I put my three Bryston, Acoustat TNT amplifiers
and Sony tuner together with my +/- 2000 cds within a defensive fence
made up of your RAO postings.
Ludovic Mirabel

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Mr Fox wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:33:29 -0400, Stuart Krivis
wrote:



task at hand:
1) Did those two designers ( with many other authorities, not of the
RAO tribe) say that digital has not as yet caught up with analogue
rendition of music or did they not?


Perhaps they realized they wouldn't sell many megabuck phono preamps
if they admitted vinyl was inferior?

Perhaps if they didn't, in general, blow smoke up people's rears they
woudn't sell much of anything at all?

Feel free to say you like vinyl better, but if you claim it's superior
to CD, you're going to need to show some proof.



Why?


People like Krivis will never understand the concept of personal
preference. Nearly everyone I know who prefers vinyl does so because
they "like it better." No one is saying that vinyl measures better, or
has lower distortion, or anything of that nature.

Objectivists like Krivis pretend to be ignorant of this fact, because
they can't argue with personal preferences. So they try to create
arguments out of thin air, because they can't "get it."

Boob

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Stuart Krivis wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:33:00 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



I raised his hackles by quoting two respected designers and
manufacturers of high-end transistor audio equipment D'Agostino.and
Meitner. Both had the inegrity (and courage) to say that they hope one
day to equal the quality of tube and vinyl. .


That's utterly absurd.

Tube circuitry is heavily flawed.

Vinyl is hopelessly flawed.


Which doesn't bode well for the quality of D'Agostino and Meitner's
_current_ equipment. :-)

"One day our stuff will make it up to the level of being really
crappy."



Actually, I feel it is possible to do a pretty good job with tubes in
some cases. A couple of EEs I respect have said that, as with SS, you
can get good results with tubes if you use them properly. I have
certainly heard good results with some tube preamps, for instance.

It appears to me that the best SS and tube gear are all converging on
the same point - neutral and stable operation. The best of each breed
sound very similar.

However, I choose to own SS myself for a number of reasons, with heat
and maintainance being up there at the top.


And sound quality, evidently, being at the bottom.

Boon

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Stuart Krivis wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 15:30:14 GMT, Jenn
wrote:

In article ,
(paul packer) wrote:

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:33:00 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:


Vinyl is hopelessly flawed.

Graham


Agreed.


Cool.... more used records available for me.


More scratches, pops, ticks, hum, rumble, and distortion for you too.
:-)


And in many cases, more great sounding music. ;-)



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Stuart Krivis wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:33:00 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:



I raised his hackles by quoting two respected designers and
manufacturers of high-end transistor audio equipment D'Agostino.and
Meitner. Both had the inegrity (and courage) to say that they hope one
day to equal the quality of tube and vinyl. .


That's utterly absurd.

Tube circuitry is heavily flawed.

Vinyl is hopelessly flawed.


Which doesn't bode well for the quality of D'Agostino and Meitner's
_current_ equipment. :-)

"One day our stuff will make it up to the level of being really
crappy."



Actually, I feel it is possible to do a pretty good job with tubes in
some cases. A couple of EEs I respect have said that, as with SS, you
can get good results with tubes if you use them properly. I have
certainly heard good results with some tube preamps, for instance.

It appears to me that the best SS and tube gear are all converging on
the same point - neutral and stable operation. The best of each breed
sound very similar.

However, I choose to own SS myself for a number of reasons, with heat
and maintainance being up there at the top.

=====================================

This access of sanity must be encouraged. What made you into a
semidissident from the faith taking cautious steps towards audio? This
is encouraging. I'll keep up the good work.
Ludovic Mirabel

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Marc said to RibbetBorg:

However, I choose to own SS myself for a number of reasons, with heat
and maintainance being up there at the top.


And sound quality, evidently, being at the bottom.


The existence of sound at sufficient volume is the quality benchmark of a
functioning audio system. What cannot be measured does not matter. If you
were a proper Hivie, you'd accept these principles and stop fussing about
ephemera like "sound quality".




--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006
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Stuart Krivis wrote:
On 4 Oct 2006 10:45:48 -0700, wrote:


Stuart Krivis wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 15:30:14 GMT, Jenn
wrote:

In article ,
(paul packer) wrote:

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:33:00 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:


Vinyl is hopelessly flawed.

Graham


Agreed.

Cool.... more used records available for me.

More scratches, pops, ticks, hum, rumble, and distortion for you too.
:-)


Maybe you should have taken better care of your records. No wonder
klutzes like you went running toward the CD when it came out.


Yeah, although I think the lower distortion, higher S/N, and better
dynamic range of CD had something to do with it too.

Now I get better sound, closer to what was on the tape at the studio
in many cases, I'm paying less per album, and I don't have to always
be futzing with taking care of LPs, cartridge, and turntable.

I bet you didn't know that the vast majority of preamps present the
wrong load electrically to the cartridge? So you've probably never
heard vinyl even as accurately as it can be. (Although some moving
coil cartridges can never be properly interfaced to, so it may not
matter for your setup.)


I bet you didn't know my setup sounds absolutely fabulous. So what
makes you think you can change my mind about anything?

Boon

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Stuart Krivis wrote:
On 4 Oct 2006 10:50:56 -0700, wrote:



People like Krivis will never understand the concept of personal
preference. Nearly everyone I know who prefers vinyl does so because
they "like it better." No one is saying that vinyl measures better, or


So you admit it's down to "I like it."


It's always been about personal preference. That's why the
objectivists always sound so foolish.


The guy with his mp3 player turned up to max distort "likes it" too. I
guess he must be right.


If that's what his preference is, then absolutely.



Objectivists like Krivis pretend to be ignorant of this fact, because
they can't argue with personal preferences. So they try to create
arguments out of thin air, because they can't "get it."


You're the one who tries to present things as being superior when they
objectively are not.


I'm the one who tries to talk about my preferences, nothing more.


When that fails, you cry "listen to it yourself!"


No, I say "listen to it yourself" from the get-go.


The next step is to retreat into "I like it and so there. I don't care
whether it's any good or not."


Well, more accurately, it's "I like it because it makes me happy. I
don't see the connection between measurements and my own personal
satisfaction. And only a moron would would buy a consumer product
based on anything other than their ultimate satisfaction."


Did I miss any steps?


Did you trip and fall on your face, you mean? Only every time you
post.



Boob


I see you finally signed yourself correctly. :-)


Ooops. You win!

Boon



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Stuart Krivis wrote:
On 4 Oct 2006 10:52:17 -0700, wrote:

However, I choose to own SS myself for a number of reasons, with heat
and maintainance being up there at the top.


And sound quality, evidently, being at the bottom.


Au contraire, mon ami!

You must have missed the part where I observed that the best tube gear
and the best SS gear sound very similar.


And I missed the part where you actually name the tube amps you have
heard that sound just like the best tube gear.


But then you're stuck using teenie, tiny, triode tunes. You don't care
how bad your amps are, because you "like them." w00t


I actually have more than one amp. I also have a 200wpc hybrid
integrated amp, a 40wpc SS receivers, and a 15wpc push-pull with KT66s.


Meanwhile, back in reality, those teeny, tiny SET amps are a joke.


Meanwhile, back in reality, I own a 2wpc triode, and derive a lot of
listening pleasure from it. And you continue to base your opinions on
something you've never heard. Which is impressing no one, by the way.


Maybe you should dispense with electronics altogether. I bet you can
find an old Victrola on Ebay or something. Then you can be acoustic
all the way from vinyl to your ears. It's older, so it's just got to
be better.


Maybe you should stick with MP3s then. It's newer, so it has to be
better!

Boon

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wrote in message
ups.com...

Stuart Krivis wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 15:30:14 GMT, Jenn
wrote:

In article ,
(paul packer) wrote:

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:33:00 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:


Vinyl is hopelessly flawed.

Graham


Agreed.

Cool.... more used records available for me.


More scratches, pops, ticks, hum, rumble, and distortion for you too.
:-)


Maybe you should have taken better care of your records. No wonder
klutzes like you went running toward the CD when it came out.

Boon


Boy, ain't that the truth. I had a Thorens turntable, Pritchard tonearm,
and ADC 25 cartridge shortly after getting out of college, replacing my
Garrard / Shure set up. Kept records dust free, in their covers when not
playing, and tracked at light weights. Most of my records have very little
noise to this day, some 44 years later. I buy used LP's in college towns
(but with my tastes, probably from profs rather than students) and about 1/2
of them are in excellent condition. The other half sound as if they were
tracked for twenty years in a VM changer, at five grams, and sat open in
piles when not being played. The difference is not subtle. And *this* is
what the anti-vinyl fundamentalists quote as the problem with LP's. Little
do they realize that it usually signals a lack of care and sometimes lesser
equipment on their part.


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Harry Lavo wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Stuart Krivis wrote:
On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 15:30:14 GMT, Jenn
wrote:

In article ,
(paul packer) wrote:

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:33:00 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:


Vinyl is hopelessly flawed.

Graham


Agreed.

Cool.... more used records available for me.

More scratches, pops, ticks, hum, rumble, and distortion for you too.
:-)


Maybe you should have taken better care of your records. No wonder
klutzes like you went running toward the CD when it came out.

Boon


Boy, ain't that the truth. I had a Thorens turntable, Pritchard tonearm,
and ADC 25 cartridge shortly after getting out of college, replacing my
Garrard / Shure set up. Kept records dust free, in their covers when not
playing, and tracked at light weights. Most of my records have very little
noise to this day, some 44 years later. I buy used LP's in college towns
(but with my tastes, probably from profs rather than students) and about 1/2
of them are in excellent condition. The other half sound as if they were
tracked for twenty years in a VM changer, at five grams, and sat open in
piles when not being played. The difference is not subtle. And *this* is
what the anti-vinyl fundamentalists quote as the problem with LP's. Little
do they realize that it usually signals a lack of care and sometimes lesser
equipment on their part.


I remember one poster here who refused to believe that I have several
LPs that are of "ticks and pops". It made me wonder how he handled his
LPs.

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Stuart Krivis wrote:

On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:33:00 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:

I raised his hackles by quoting two respected designers and
manufacturers of high-end transistor audio equipment D'Agostino.and
Meitner. Both had the inegrity (and courage) to say that they hope one
day to equal the quality of tube and vinyl. .


That's utterly absurd.

Tube circuitry is heavily flawed.

Vinyl is hopelessly flawed.


Which doesn't bode well for the quality of D'Agostino and Meitner's
_current_ equipment. :-)

"One day our stuff will make it up to the level of being really
crappy."

Actually, I feel it is possible to do a pretty good job with tubes in
some cases. A couple of EEs I respect have said that, as with SS, you
can get good results with tubes if you use them properly. I have
certainly heard good results with some tube preamps, for instance.


A tube PA is totally stuffed by the need to use an output transformer though.


It appears to me that the best SS and tube gear are all converging on
the same point - neutral and stable operation. The best of each breed
sound very similar.

However, I choose to own SS myself for a number of reasons, with heat
and maintainance being up there at the top.


Good enough reasons, although I did once design a mosfet amp with a quiscent
dissipation of 110W/ch.

Graham


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